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501 Text|           poet spoke both well and prudently; but if you have anything
502 Text|       badly.’ (A fragment from the pseudo-Homeric poem, ‘Margites.’)~ALCIBIADES:
503 Text|        kill, as well as of orators puffed up with political pride,
504 Text|             not to the justice and purity of our souls, but to costly
505 Text|             But when she rushes in pursuit of wealth or bodily strength
506 Text|       lines, which are probably of Pythagorean origin, is unknown. They
507 Text|        employed in allusion to the quotation from the ‘Margites’ which
508 Pre |         and two somewhat hackneyed quotations (Symp., Gorg.) recur. The
509 Text|           whose words I originally quoted wiser than we are, when
510 Text|            to the Gods, and beg at random for what they need, good
511 Text|            and known of all, it is rare to find any one who has
512 Text|           manage, Socrates?—At any rate I will set this crown of
513 Text|            your gift, and shall be ready and willing to receive whatever
514 Text|       shortly after he may have to recall his prayer, and, as you
515 Text|            be ready and willing to receive whatever else you may proffer.
516 Text|       blessed Gods were averse and received it not. For exceedingly
517 Text|            prophet declare, are no receivers of gifts, and they scorn
518 Text|            and each time failed to recognize Pericles, you would never
519 Pre |          quotations (Symp., Gorg.) recur. The reference to the death
520 Text|          gain aught by prayer, has refrained from making his petition.
521 Text|       prayer, lest haply he should refuse your sacrifice when he hears
522 Text|            to find any one who has refused what has been offered him,
523 Text|        what we ask.~And now I will relate to you a story which I have
524 Text|          have wished that they had remained in a private station rather
525 Pre |          that about the poets:—the remark that the poet, who is of
526 Pre |  considerable originality, and are remarkable for containing several thoughts
527 Text|       oppose.~SOCRATES: Do you not remember saying that you were in
528 Text|            just as Athene in Homer removes the mist from the eyes of
529 Text|          no one else:—the servants reply, ‘Yes’: (Mind, I do not
530 Text|         which befall them (compare Republic): ‘their own presumption,’
531 Text|       opposite of what he at first requested.~SOCRATES: And was not the
532 Pre |         that the poet, who is of a reserved disposition, is uncommonly
533 Text|            not who he is; but I am resolved to disobey none of his commands,
534 Text|         matters, and pay so little respect to the Gods that they have
535 Text|         also to whom and how it is respectively a good or an evil?~ALCIBIADES:
536 Text|        badly.’ The solution of the riddle is this, I imagine:—By ‘
537 Text|        only the poet is talking in riddles after the fashion of his
538 Text|            if any one knows how to ride or to shoot with the bow
539 Text|           best in riding as a good rider?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES:
540 Pre |   difficult to understand, and the ridiculous interpretation of Homer,
541 Text|          who knows what is best in riding as a good rider?~ALCIBIADES:
542 Text|        perform the other customary rites when I see that day approaching:
543 Text|          when you saw each of them rivalling the other and esteeming
544 Pre |          being, among all Greek or Roman writings, the one which
545 Text|        language, describe them as ‘romantic’ or ‘simple-minded,’ or,
546 Text|          satisfied unless you were ruler of the whole of Europe,
547 Text|            that will be safer than running such a tremendous risk.~
548 Text|         through life. But when she rushes in pursuit of wealth or
549 Text|          that they have a habit of sacrificing blemished animals to them,
550 Text|             You see that it is not safe for a man either rashly
551 Text|           if the soul does not set sail until she have obtained
552 Text|        them to him and said: ‘Thus saith Ammon to the Athenians: “
553 Text|        SOCRATES: He must be either sane or insane?~ALCIBIADES: So
554 Text|         even then you would not be satisfied unless you were ruler of
555 Text|     immortals,’~and how the ‘sweet savour’ was borne ‘to the heavens
556 Text|           certainly would when you saw each of them rivalling the
557 Text|          use auspicious words, who says that you would not be willing
558 Text|      ALCIBIADES: Surely not. But I scarcely understand what I mean myself.~
559 Pre |         striking manner the modern science of political economy and
560 Text|          the possession of all the sciences, if unaccompanied by the
561 Text|       receivers of gifts, and they scorn such unworthy service. Wherefore
562 Text|           every battle by land and sea and never gained a victory.
563 Pre |          indebted to my friend and secretary, Mr. Knight.~That the Dialogue
564     | seemed
565 Text|            And you regard those as sensible who know what ought to be
566 Text|           him and no one else:—the servants reply, ‘Yes’: (Mind, I do
567 Text|            knows how to ride or to shoot with the bow or to box or
568 Text|           is asking for good, when shortly after he may have to recall
569 Pre |          us. The Second Alcibiades shows that the difficulties about
570 Text|            me that you should keep silence; for your ‘highmindedness’—
571 Text|    describe them as ‘romantic’ or ‘simple-minded,’ or, again, as ‘innocent’
572 Text|       abundant learning.’), and is skilful in many arts, and does not
573 Text|            he has gained it by his skill as the first-fruits of the
574 Text|         this seemed in your eyes a small and mean thing, should add
575 Text|         moreover, we make the most solemn and costly processions to
576 Text|          knew them all badly.’ The solution of the riddle is this, I
577 Pre |       clumsily introduced, and two somewhat hackneyed quotations (Symp.,
578 Text|          same day that Alcibiades, son of Cleinias, was tyrant:—
579 Text|            make, as he deserves, a sorry voyage:— he will, I believe,
580 Text|        sculptors and others of all sorts and kinds, whom we need
581 Text|          justice and purity of our souls, but to costly processions
582 Text|        Priam and the people of the spear-skilled king.’~So that it was in
583 Text|            to them every year, and spend more money in their service
584 Text|            the first-fruits of the spoil:—~‘An auspicious omen I
585 Text|          ours.’ When they had thus spoken, and had made their request
586 Pre |            good example of a short spurious work, which may be attributed
587 Text|       Homer meant ‘bad’ and ‘knew’ stands for ‘to know.’ Put the words
588 Text|          had remained in a private station rather than have had the
589     | still
590 Pre | heavy-in-hand. There are traces of Stoic influence in the general
591     | stop
592 Text|            furnish us with similar stories. For he tells us how the
593 Text|         thou knowest that wave and storm oppress us.’~And so I count
594 Text|           will also perhaps appear strange to you, if you will consider
595 Text|        pursuit of wealth or bodily strength or anything else, not having
596 Text|  good-fortune; for I am in no less stress than Creon, and would fain
597 Pre |            anticipates in the most striking manner the modern science
598 Text|       anywhere: what you once most strongly inclined to suppose, you
599 Text|         their hands, and have been struck and beaten and endured every
600 Pre |        over language, or beauty of style; and there is a certain
601 Pre |           a modern interest in the subject of the dialogue; and it
602 Text|        case. Suppose that you were suddenly to get into your head that
603 Text|        into the greatest pains and sufferings. For some have begotten
604 Text|           right. For every one who suffers from a fever is sick; but
605 Pre |           only a fiction, probably suggested by the Gorgias, where the
606 Text|           the God to do so;—but he summoned them to him and said: ‘Thus
607 Text|           indeed require an almost superhuman wisdom to discover what
608 Text|        does that which he knows or supposes that he knows, and the result
609 Text|           you should ask for evil, supposing that you were asking for
610 Text|          we not?~ALCIBIADES: To be sure.~SOCRATES: And you regard
611 Text|           unsaid. Wherefore also I suspect that men are entirely wrong
612 Pre |     somewhat hackneyed quotations (Symp., Gorg.) recur. The reference
613 Pre |        Laws). An incident from the Symposium is rather clumsily introduced,
614 Pre |            proen gegonota tauta, k.t.l. There are several passages
615 Pre |           a similar phrase occurs;—ta gar echthes kai proen gegonota
616 Text|        think, the darkness must be taken away in which your soul
617 Text|             SOCRATES: It is he who takes an especial interest in
618 Text|           friend: only the poet is talking in riddles after the fashion
619 Pre |         echthes kai proen gegonota tauta, k.t.l. There are several
620 Text|       Socrates, and who will be my teacher? I should be very glad to
621 Text|          the play, when he beholds Teiresias with his crown and hears
622 Text|            similar stories. For he tells us how the Trojans in making
623 Text|         man who is of a begrudging temper and does not care to manifest
624 Text|    Hellenic state, and adorn their temples with gifts, as nobody else
625 Text|     SOCRATES: And you use both the terms, ‘wise’ and ‘foolish,’ in
626 Text| accomplished, and did not many and terrible evils thence arise, upon
627 Text|      processions and sacrifices of theirs. And we ought, I think,
628     | thence
629 Pre |           have perplexed Christian theologians were not unknown among the
630     | thereby
631 Pre |  remarkable for containing several thoughts of the sort which we suppose
632 Text|            he had held the tyranny three or four days, he was in
633     | thy
634 Pre |     Dialogue (compare opos melesei tis...kaka: oti pas aphron mainetai):
635 Text|            count your gift to be a token of good-fortune; for I am
636 Pre |          the story of Archelaus is told, and a similar phrase occurs;—
637 Pre |           heavy-in-hand. There are traces of Stoic influence in the
638 Pre |       principal doctrines.~For the translation of these two dialogues I
639 Text|            may require a different treatment. They are not all alike,
640 Text|          safer than running such a tremendous risk.~ALCIBIADES: But how
641 Text|           after the fashion of his tribe. For all poetry has by nature
642 Text|            For he tells us how the Trojans in making their encampment,~‘
643 Text|            find a remedy for their troubles, decided to send and enquire
644 Text|            because, as I think, he trusts to opinion which is devoid
645 Text|            was really speaking the truth when I affirmed that the
646 Text|           four days, he was in his turn conspired against and slain.
647 Text|          of Archelaus for him. The tyrannicide expected by his crime to
648 Pre |        conversation, which is very un-Platonic. The best passage is probably
649 Text|            of all the sciences, if unaccompanied by the knowledge of the
650 Text|          most divine of poets, was unaware of the impossibility of
651 Text|          whom, indeed, it would be unbecoming for me to oppose.~SOCRATES:
652 Text|           it? (The reading is here uncertain.)~ALCIBIADES: What is that,
653 Pre |           reserved disposition, is uncommonly difficult to understand,
654 Text|           there would be reason in undergoing them; but the very contrary
655 Text|      parents of good children have undergone the misfortune of losing
656 Text|          not.~SOCRATES: But he who understands anything of the kind and
657 Text|           if the act appear to you unfit even to be mentioned. Or
658     | unlike
659 Text|          word)—~‘Has brought these unmeasured woes upon them.’ (Homer.
660 Text|         good whether prayed for or unsought by us; But that which we
661     | unto
662 Text|            you would call the many unwise and the few wise?~ALCIBIADES:
663 Text|         gifts, and they scorn such unworthy service. Wherefore also
664     | used
665 Text|          widely different from the usual requests of the Hellenes.
666 Text|             who are not, like vile usurers, to be gained over by bribes.
667 Text|            the blasphemy which you utter, and make you partake of
668 Text|         begotten children who were utterly bad, and have therefore
669 Text|           king.’~So that it was in vain for them to sacrifice and
670 Text|            animals to them, and in various ways are less zealous than
671 Text|           have nevertheless fallen victims to designing enemies. You
672 Text|         auspicious omen I deem thy victor’s wreath: For well thou
673 Text|            Gods, who are not, like vile usurers, to be gained over
674 Text|          peace, or the building of walls and the construction of
675 Text|         For well thou knowest that wave and storm oppress us.’~And
676 Text|            to them, and in various ways are less zealous than we
677 Pre |          The dialectic is poor and weak. There is no power over
678 Text|            SOCRATES:—If, then, you went indoors, and seeing him,
679     | whereby
680     | Wherein
681 Text|            presumption,’ or folly (whichever is the right word)—~‘Has
682 Text|            having occasionally the whim that what is worst is best?~
683 Text|    Lacedaemonians, which is indeed widely different from the usual
684 Text|             It seems to me to be a wild thing (The Homeric word
685 Text|       borne ‘to the heavens by the winds;~‘But the blessed Gods were
686 Text|          that several of them have wished that they had remained in
687 Text|         the soul, therefore, which wishes to have a right existence
688 Text|          who are most out of their wits we call ‘madmen,’ while
689 Text|           brought these unmeasured woes upon them.’ (Homer. Odyss.)~
690 Text|           intend to slay the first woman he came across, nor any
691 Text|      SOCRATES: And surely he has a wondrous care for you.~ALCIBIADES:
692 Pre |        example of a short spurious work, which may be attributed
693 Text|            employments and all are workmen, although they are not all
694 Text| occasionally the whim that what is worst is best?~ALCIBIADES: No.)~
695 Text|           omen I deem thy victor’s wreath: For well thou knowest that
696 Text|            the bow or to box or to wrestle, or to engage in any other
697 Pre |          aphron mainetai): and the writer seems to have been acquainted
698 Pre |            Alcibiades is a genuine writing of Plato will not be maintained
699 Text|      suspect that men are entirely wrong when they blame the gods
700     | yourself
701 Text|           in various ways are less zealous than we are, although their