Dialogue

  1 Craty|   attributed to the extravagance of Socrates’ humour would have been
  2 Craty|           made for the character of Socrates. For the theory of language
  3 Craty|           and Neoplatonist writers. Socrates must be interpreted from
  4 Craty|            no reason to assume that Socrates is either wholly right or
  5 Craty|           characters of Hermogenes, Socrates, and Cratylus, the three
  6 Craty|         accept the third view which Socrates interposes between them.
  7 Craty|            the convention proceeds. Socrates first of all intimates to
  8 Craty|              to the speculations of Socrates.~Cratylus is of opinion
  9 Craty|  sophistical character, the view of Socrates is introduced, which is
 10 Craty|           propounded by Hermogenes, Socrates, Cratylus, may be described
 11 Craty|            the natural. The view of Socrates is the meeting-point of
 12 Craty|         that which he attributes to Socrates. Yet many persons have thought
 13 Craty|           the impression created by Socrates himself, that he is not
 14 Craty|             infer, that the view of Socrates is not the less Plato’s
 15 Craty|              2. We do not deny that Socrates is partly in jest and partly
 16 Craty| etymological enthusiasm has abated, Socrates ends, as he has begun, with
 17 Craty|        which they are composed. The Socrates who ‘knows nothing,’ here
 18 Craty|    philological fancies of the day. Socrates in pursuit of his vocation
 19 Craty|            dialogues as the Silenus Socrates; and through this medium
 20 Craty|        about the provoking irony of Socrates, about the parody of Euthyphro,
 21 Craty|     authority of the Homeric poems, Socrates shows that the truth or
 22 Craty|        already anticipated in part: Socrates is not a dogmatic teacher,
 23 Craty|              by the manner in which Socrates speaks of them, to have
 24 Craty|        derivations. Like his master Socrates, he saw through the hollowness
 25 Craty|            his hands.’ The irony of Socrates places him above and beyond
 26 Craty|             all, the pleasure which Socrates expresses in his own dangerous
 27 Craty|             philosophy of language, Socrates is also satirizing the endless
 28 Craty|           favourite recreation; and Socrates makes merry at the expense
 29 Craty|         told, heightens the effect. Socrates in his genial and ironical
 30 Craty|         latter part of the dialogue Socrates becomes more serious, though
 31 Craty|           in the days of his youth? Socrates, touching on some of the
 32 Craty|       treatment of the character of Socrates, have a close resemblance
 33 Craty|           still in full vigour; the Socrates of the Cratylus is the Socrates
 34 Craty|     Socrates of the Cratylus is the Socrates of the Apology and Symposium,
 35 Craty|       equally true. Hermogenes asks Socrates to explain to him what Cratylus
 36 Craty|            would like to know, What Socrates himself thinks about the
 37 Craty|            or correctness of names? Socrates replies, that hard is knowledge,
 38 Craty|          say, for instance, rejoins Socrates, that if I agree to call
 39 Craty|           confirmation of his view. Socrates asks, whether the things
 40 Craty| acknowledges, when he is pressed by Socrates, that there are a few very
 41 Craty|           Cratylus would say. ‘But, Socrates, as I was telling you, Cratylus
 42 Craty|           little,” as Hesiod says.’ Socrates here interposes his own
 43 Craty|          breast, was the inspirer.’ Socrates replies, that he is afraid
 44 Craty|          the name of somebody else. Socrates supposes him to mean that
 45 Craty|        utter the word which is not. Socrates complains that this argument
 46 Craty|          but denies that names can. Socrates argues, that he may go up
 47 Craty|          may be a bad artist. ‘Yes, Socrates, but the cases are not parallel;
 48 Craty|          name ceases to be a name.’ Socrates admits that the number 10,
 49 Craty|        Cratylus admits the truth of Socrates’ remark. But then Socrates
 50 Craty|          Socrates’ remark. But then Socrates rejoins, he should have
 51 Craty|             meaning hardness? ‘Why, Socrates, I retort upon you, that
 52 Craty|           names? ‘The use of names, Socrates, is to inform, and he who
 53 Craty|          erroneous. ‘But then, why, Socrates, is language so consistent?
 54 Craty|         were any names? ‘I believe, Socrates, that some power more than
 55 Craty|           tell me. ‘I have thought, Socrates, and after a good deal of
 56 Craty|            me a lesson. ‘Very good, Socrates, and I hope that you will
 57 Craty|            argument too subtle’ for Socrates, who rejects the theological
 58 Craty|        relations to the barbarians. Socrates is aware that this principle
 59 Craty|       langue bien faite.’ At first, Socrates has delighted himself with
 60 Craty|     falsehood is impossible,’ which Socrates characteristically sets
 61 Craty|      distinguish words from things. Socrates replies in effect that words
 62 Craty|           preserve the character of Socrates, Plato envelopes the whole
 63 Craty|       distinctions were familiar to Socrates and Plato. (5) There is
 64 Craty|            PERSONS OF THE DIALOGUE: Socrates, Hermogenes, Cratylus.~HERMOGENES:
 65 Craty|    HERMOGENES: Suppose that we make Socrates a party to the argument?~
 66 Craty|            I should explain to you, Socrates, that our friend Cratylus
 67 Craty|           and he answers ‘Yes.’ And Socrates? ‘Yes.’ Then every man’s
 68 Craty|           be intelligible. Tell me, Socrates, what this oracle means;
 69 Craty|            I would far sooner hear.~SOCRATES: Son of Hipponicus, there
 70 Craty|       Cratylus, or of any one else.~SOCRATES: I dare say that you may
 71 Craty|      HERMOGENES: That is my notion.~SOCRATES: Whether the giver of the
 72 Craty|            a city?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Well, now, let me take
 73 Craty|        would, according to my view.~SOCRATES: But how about truth, then?
 74 Craty|              HERMOGENES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And there are true and
 75 Craty|             HERMOGENES: To be sure.~SOCRATES: And a true proposition
 76 Craty|           other answer is possible?~SOCRATES: Then in a proposition there
 77 Craty|              HERMOGENES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: But is a proposition true
 78 Craty|          true as well as the whole.~SOCRATES: Would you say the large
 79 Craty|            that every part is true.~SOCRATES: Is a proposition resolvable
 80 Craty|           No; that is the smallest.~SOCRATES: Then the name is a part
 81 Craty|       proposition?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Yes, and a true part, as
 82 Craty|           you say.~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And is not the part of
 83 Craty|         falsehood?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then, if propositions may
 84 Craty|       HERMOGENES: So we must infer.~SOCRATES: And the name of anything
 85 Craty|          the name?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And will there be so many
 86 Craty|     uttering them?~HERMOGENES: Yes, Socrates, I can conceive no correctness
 87 Craty|            tribes from one another.~SOCRATES: But would you say, Hermogenes,
 88 Craty|              There have been times, Socrates, when I have been driven
 89 Craty|            I agree with him at all.~SOCRATES: What! have you ever been
 90 Craty|            and a good many of them.~SOCRATES: Well, and have you ever
 91 Craty|         ones?~HERMOGENES: Not many.~SOCRATES: Still you have found them?~
 92 Craty|        found them?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And would you hold that
 93 Craty|         view?~HERMOGENES: It would.~SOCRATES: But if Protagoras is right,
 94 Craty|             HERMOGENES: Impossible.~SOCRATES: And if, on the other hand,
 95 Craty|              HERMOGENES: He cannot.~SOCRATES: Nor will you be disposed
 96 Craty|           HERMOGENES: There cannot.~SOCRATES: But if neither is right,
 97 Craty|        nature.~HERMOGENES: I think, Socrates, that you have said the
 98 Craty|            you have said the truth.~SOCRATES: Does what I am saying apply
 99 Craty|         real as well as the things.~SOCRATES: Then the actions also are
100 Craty|       natural way is the right way.~SOCRATES: Again, in burning, not
101 Craty|       instrument.~HERMOGENES: True.~SOCRATES: And this holds good of
102 Craty|           actions?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And speech is a kind of
103 Craty|           action?~HERMOGENES: True.~SOCRATES: And will a man speak correctly
104 Craty|             I quite agree with you.~SOCRATES: And is not naming a part
105 Craty|           HERMOGENES: That is true.~SOCRATES: And if speaking is a sort
106 Craty|           action?~HERMOGENES: True.~SOCRATES: And we saw that actions
107 Craty|              HERMOGENES: Precisely.~SOCRATES: Then the argument would
108 Craty|       success.~HERMOGENES: I agree.~SOCRATES: But again, that which has
109 Craty|         something?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And that which has to be
110 Craty|              HERMOGENES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And that which has to be
111 Craty|        something?~HERMOGENES: True.~SOCRATES: What is that with which
112 Craty|         pierce?~HERMOGENES: An awl.~SOCRATES: And with which we weave?~
113 Craty|              HERMOGENES: A shuttle.~SOCRATES: And with which we name?~
114 Craty|           name?~HERMOGENES: A name.~SOCRATES: Very good: then a name
115 Craty|              HERMOGENES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Suppose that I ask, ‘What
116 Craty|      instrument.’~HERMOGENES: Well.~SOCRATES: And I ask again, ‘What
117 Craty|              HERMOGENES: Very true.~SOCRATES: And may not a similar description
118 Craty|             HERMOGENES: To be sure.~SOCRATES: And now suppose that I
119 Craty|           HERMOGENES: I cannot say.~SOCRATES: Do we not give information
120 Craty|        HERMOGENES: Certainly we do.~SOCRATES: Then a name is an instrument
121 Craty|           the web.~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And the shuttle is the
122 Craty|              HERMOGENES: Assuredly.~SOCRATES: Then the weaver will use
123 Craty|           teacher?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And when the weaver uses
124 Craty|              That of the carpenter.~SOCRATES: And is every man a carpenter,
125 Craty|       HERMOGENES: Only the skilled.~SOCRATES: And when the piercer uses
126 Craty|      HERMOGENES: That of the smith.~SOCRATES: And is every man a smith,
127 Craty|       HERMOGENES: The skilled only.~SOCRATES: And when the teacher uses
128 Craty|           There again I am puzzled.~SOCRATES: Cannot you at least say
129 Craty|        HERMOGENES: Indeed I cannot.~SOCRATES: Does not the law seem to
130 Craty|      HERMOGENES: Yes, I suppose so.~SOCRATES: Then the teacher, when
131 Craty|    legislator?~HERMOGENES: I agree.~SOCRATES: And is every man a legislator,
132 Craty|       HERMOGENES: The skilled only.~SOCRATES: Then, Hermogenes, not every
133 Craty|           rarest.~HERMOGENES: True.~SOCRATES: And how does the legislator
134 Craty|              HERMOGENES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And suppose the shuttle
135 Craty|           latter, I should imagine.~SOCRATES: Might not that be justly
136 Craty|             HERMOGENES: I think so.~SOCRATES: And whatever shuttles are
137 Craty|         each case.~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And the same holds of other
138 Craty|              HERMOGENES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And how to put into wood
139 Craty|             uses?~HERMOGENES: True.~SOCRATES: For the several forms of
140 Craty|           general.~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then, as to names: ought
141 Craty|              HERMOGENES: Very true.~SOCRATES: And the legislator, whether
142 Craty|             HERMOGENES: Quite true.~SOCRATES: But who then is to determine
143 Craty|              he who is to use them, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And who uses
144 Craty|           is to use them, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And who uses the work of
145 Craty|              HERMOGENES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And who is he?~HERMOGENES:
146 Craty|             The player of the lyre.~SOCRATES: And who will direct the
147 Craty|              HERMOGENES: The pilot.~SOCRATES: And who will be best able
148 Craty|           the man?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And this is he who knows
149 Craty|         questions?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And how to answer them?~
150 Craty|       answer them?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And him who knows how to
151 Craty|             that would be his name.~SOCRATES: Then the work of the carpenter
152 Craty|             made.~HERMOGENES: True.~SOCRATES: And the work of the legislator
153 Craty|           HERMOGENES: That is true.~SOCRATES: Then, Hermogenes, I should
154 Craty|    HERMOGENES: I cannot answer you, Socrates; but I find a difficulty
155 Craty|           natural fitness of names.~SOCRATES: My good Hermogenes, I have
156 Craty|              HERMOGENES: Very good.~SOCRATES: And what is the nature
157 Craty|          Certainly, I care to know.~SOCRATES: Then reflect.~HERMOGENES:
158 Craty|    HERMOGENES: How shall I reflect?~SOCRATES: The true way is to have
159 Craty|             he and his book affirm!~SOCRATES: Then if you despise him,
160 Craty|        names, and what does he say?~SOCRATES: He often speaks of them;
161 Craty|             what are you referring?~SOCRATES: Do you not know what he
162 Craty|             HERMOGENES: I remember.~SOCRATES: Well, and about this river—
163 Craty|              Il.)~HERMOGENES: I do.~SOCRATES: Let me ask you, then, which
164 Craty|          HERMOGENES: I do not know.~SOCRATES: How would you answer, if
165 Craty|            say the wise, of course.~SOCRATES: And are the men or the
166 Craty|              I should say, the men.~SOCRATES: And Homer, as you know,
167 Craty|   HERMOGENES: That may be inferred.~SOCRATES: And must not Homer have
168 Craty|             HERMOGENES: To be sure.~SOCRATES: Then he must have thought
169 Craty|   Scamandrius?~HERMOGENES: Clearly.~SOCRATES: And what is the reason
170 Craty|        observes.~HERMOGENES: I see.~SOCRATES: Why, Hermogenes, I do not
171 Craty|      HERMOGENES: No, indeed; not I.~SOCRATES: But tell me, friend, did
172 Craty|           HERMOGENES: What of that?~SOCRATES: The name appears to me
173 Craty|           to be on the right track.~SOCRATES: There is reason, I think,
174 Craty|           HERMOGENES: Yes, I agree.~SOCRATES: Very good. But you had
175 Craty|       HERMOGENES: What do you mean?~SOCRATES: A very simple matter. I
176 Craty|            I believe you are right.~SOCRATES: And may not the same be
177 Craty|            say so?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: The same names, then, ought
178 Craty|            nature?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And what of those who follow
179 Craty|             HERMOGENES: Quite true.~SOCRATES: Then the irreligious son
180 Craty|              HERMOGENES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: He should not be called
181 Craty|              HERMOGENES: Certainly, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Again, Hermogenes,
182 Craty|    HERMOGENES: Certainly, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Again, Hermogenes, there
183 Craty|    HERMOGENES: That is very likely, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And his father’
184 Craty|           is very likely, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And his father’s name is
185 Craty|        nature.~HERMOGENES: Clearly.~SOCRATES: Yes, for as his name, so
186 Craty|          oron).~HERMOGENES: How so?~SOCRATES: Because, according to the
187 Craty|            what are the traditions?~SOCRATES: Many terrible misfortunes
188 Craty|         HERMOGENES: You seem to me, Socrates, to be quite like a prophet
189 Craty|             to be uttering oracles.~SOCRATES: Yes, Hermogenes, and I
190 Craty|            the enquiry about names.~SOCRATES: Then let us proceed; and
191 Craty|             HERMOGENES: I think so, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Ought we not
192 Craty|   HERMOGENES: I think so, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Ought we not to begin with
193 Craty|             Yes, that will be well.~SOCRATES: My notion would be something
194 Craty|        think it very likely indeed.~SOCRATES: What shall follow the Gods?~
195 Craty|           heroes and men come next?~SOCRATES: Demons! And what do you
196 Craty|            HERMOGENES: Let me hear.~SOCRATES: You know how Hesiod uses
197 Craty|         word?~HERMOGENES: I do not.~SOCRATES: Do you not remember that
198 Craty|              HERMOGENES: Yes, I do.~SOCRATES: He says of them—~‘But now
199 Craty|              What is the inference?~SOCRATES: What is the inference!
200 Craty|           HERMOGENES: That is true.~SOCRATES: And do you not suppose
201 Craty|            HERMOGENES: Very likely.~SOCRATES: And are not the good wise?~
202 Craty|     HERMOGENES: Yes, they are wise.~SOCRATES: And therefore I have the
203 Craty|      writing eros with an epsilon.)~SOCRATES: I think that there is no
204 Craty|       HERMOGENES: What do you mean?~SOCRATES: Do you not know that the
205 Craty|              HERMOGENES: What then?~SOCRATES: All of them sprang either
206 Craty|             more likely to succeed.~SOCRATES: That is to say, you trust
207 Craty|              HERMOGENES: Of course.~SOCRATES: Your faith is not vain;
208 Craty|           HERMOGENES: That is true.~SOCRATES: The name anthropos, which
209 Craty|       HERMOGENES: What do you mean?~SOCRATES: I mean to say that the
210 Craty|           about which I am curious?~SOCRATES: Certainly.~HERMOGENES:
211 Craty|       distinction of soul and body?~SOCRATES: Of course.~HERMOGENES:
212 Craty|            like the previous words.~SOCRATES: You want me first of all
213 Craty|             body)?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: If I am to say what occurs
214 Craty|            HERMOGENES: Let me hear.~SOCRATES: What is that which holds
215 Craty|              HERMOGENES: Just that.~SOCRATES: And do you not believe
216 Craty|              HERMOGENES: Yes; I do.~SOCRATES: Then you may well call
217 Craty|          scientific than the other.~SOCRATES: It is so; but I cannot
218 Craty|            we say of the next word?~SOCRATES: You mean soma (the body).~
219 Craty|             body).~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: That may be variously interpreted;
220 Craty|       changed.~HERMOGENES: I think, Socrates, that we have said enough
221 Craty|           is to be applied to them.~SOCRATES: Yes, indeed, Hermogenes;
222 Craty|         blame.~HERMOGENES: I think, Socrates, that you are quite right,
223 Craty|        would like to do as you say.~SOCRATES: Shall we begin, then, with
224 Craty|           that will be very proper.~SOCRATES: What may we suppose him
225 Craty|            most difficult question.~SOCRATES: My dear Hermogenes, the
226 Craty|             Well, and what of them?~SOCRATES: They are the men to whom
227 Craty|          nonsense.~HERMOGENES: Why, Socrates?~SOCRATES: My good friend,
228 Craty|          HERMOGENES: Why, Socrates?~SOCRATES: My good friend, I have
229 Craty|         HERMOGENES: Of what nature?~SOCRATES: Well, rather ridiculous,
230 Craty|          HERMOGENES: How plausible?~SOCRATES: I fancy to myself Heracleitus
231 Craty|        HERMOGENES: How do you mean?~SOCRATES: Heracleitus is supposed
232 Craty|           HERMOGENES: That is true.~SOCRATES: Well, then, how can we
233 Craty|          something in what you say, Socrates; but I do not understand
234 Craty|         meaning of the name Tethys.~SOCRATES: Well, that is almost self-explained,
235 Craty|              The idea is ingenious, Socrates.~SOCRATES: To be sure. But
236 Craty|             is ingenious, Socrates.~SOCRATES: To be sure. But what comes
237 Craty|            spoken.~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then let us next take his
238 Craty|           HERMOGENES: By all means.~SOCRATES: Poseidon is Posidesmos,
239 Craty|             is the true derivation?~SOCRATES: In spite of the mistakes
240 Craty|       HERMOGENES: Why, how is that?~SOCRATES: I will tell you my own
241 Craty|      necessity?~HERMOGENES: Desire, Socrates, is stronger far.~SOCRATES:
242 Craty|          Socrates, is stronger far.~SOCRATES: And do you not think that
243 Craty|   HERMOGENES: Assuredly they would.~SOCRATES: And if by the greatest
244 Craty|          HERMOGENES: That is clear.~SOCRATES: And there are many desires?~
245 Craty|           desires?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And therefore by the greatest
246 Craty|          greatest?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And is any desire stronger
247 Craty|          HERMOGENES: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: And is not that the reason,
248 Craty|           of truth in what you say.~SOCRATES: Yes, Hermogenes, and the
249 Craty|              and the other deities?~SOCRATES: Demeter is e didousa meter,
250 Craty|           and what you say is true.~SOCRATES: But the name, in my opinion,
251 Craty|            God.~HERMOGENES: How so?~SOCRATES: I will endeavour to explain,
252 Craty|            to hear the explanation.~SOCRATES: Say rather an harmonious
253 Craty|              HERMOGENES: Very true.~SOCRATES: And is not Apollo the purifier,
254 Craty|              HERMOGENES: Very true.~SOCRATES: Then in reference to his
255 Craty|             Dionysus and Aphrodite?~SOCRATES: Son of Hipponicus, you
256 Craty|           remains Athene, whom you, Socrates, as an Athenian, will surely
257 Craty|           also Hephaestus and Ares.~SOCRATES: I am not likely to forget
258 Craty|             HERMOGENES: No, indeed.~SOCRATES: There is no difficulty
259 Craty|             What other appellation?~SOCRATES: We call her Pallas.~HERMOGENES:
260 Craty|             HERMOGENES: To be sure.~SOCRATES: And we cannot be wrong
261 Craty|     HERMOGENES: That is quite true.~SOCRATES: Then that is the explanation
262 Craty|          you say of the other name?~SOCRATES: Athene?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~
263 Craty|            Athene?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: That is a graver matter,
264 Craty|           do you say of Hephaestus?~SOCRATES: Speak you of the princely
265 Craty|        istora)?~HERMOGENES: Surely.~SOCRATES: Ephaistos is Phaistos,
266 Craty|         notion gets into your head.~SOCRATES: To prevent that, you had
267 Craty|           HERMOGENES: What is Ares?~SOCRATES: Ares may be called, if
268 Craty|              HERMOGENES: Very true.~SOCRATES: And now, by the Gods, let
269 Craty|      meaning in what Cratylus says.~SOCRATES: I should imagine that the
270 Craty|            a good hand at speeches.~SOCRATES: There is also reason, my
271 Craty|           How do you make that out?~SOCRATES: You are aware that speech
272 Craty|              HERMOGENES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Is not the truth that is
273 Craty|              HERMOGENES: Very true.~SOCRATES: Then surely Pan, who is
274 Craty|         sort of Gods, by all means, Socrates. But why should we not discuss
275 Craty|          the seasons, and the year?~SOCRATES: You impose a great many
276 Craty|     HERMOGENES: You will oblige me.~SOCRATES: How would you have me begin?
277 Craty|              HERMOGENES: Very good.~SOCRATES: The origin of the sun will
278 Craty|          what is selene (the moon)?~SOCRATES: That name is rather unfortunate
279 Craty|     Anaxagoras.~HERMOGENES: How so?~SOCRATES: The word seems to forestall
280 Craty|      HERMOGENES: Why do you say so?~SOCRATES: The two words selas (brightness)
281 Craty|           meaning?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: This light about the moon
282 Craty|              HERMOGENES: Very true.~SOCRATES: The moon is not unfrequently
283 Craty|         selanaia.~HERMOGENES: True.~SOCRATES: And as she has a light
284 Craty|      dithyrambic sort of name that, Socrates. But what do you say of
285 Craty|            the month and the stars?~SOCRATES: Meis (month) is called
286 Craty|             fire) and udor (water)?~SOCRATES: I am at a loss how to explain
287 Craty|             HERMOGENES: What is it?~SOCRATES: I will tell you; but I
288 Craty|        HERMOGENES: Indeed I cannot.~SOCRATES: Shall I tell you what I
289 Craty|              What is the inference?~SOCRATES: Why, you know that any
290 Craty|         HERMOGENES: Yes, certainly.~SOCRATES: Well then, consider whether
291 Craty|           HERMOGENES: That is true.~SOCRATES: Any violent interpretations
292 Craty|     gegennesthai.~HERMOGENES: Good.~SOCRATES: What shall we take next?~
293 Craty|            year, eniautos and etos.~SOCRATES: The orai should be spelt
294 Craty|    proposition.~HERMOGENES: Indeed, Socrates, you make surprising progress.~
295 Craty|           make surprising progress.~SOCRATES: I am run away with.~HERMOGENES:
296 Craty|              HERMOGENES: Very true.~SOCRATES: But am not yet at my utmost
297 Craty|      justice, and the rest of them?~SOCRATES: That is a tremendous class
298 Craty|             find out their meaning.~SOCRATES: By the dog of Egypt I have
299 Craty|            HERMOGENES: How is that, Socrates?~SOCRATES: Perhaps you did
300 Craty|              How is that, Socrates?~SOCRATES: Perhaps you did not observe
301 Craty|              I never thought of it.~SOCRATES: Take the first of those
302 Craty|      HERMOGENES: What was the name?~SOCRATES: Phronesis (wisdom), which
303 Craty|     mentioned.~HERMOGENES: I think, Socrates, that you are not improvising
304 Craty|            this from some one else.~SOCRATES: And not the rest?~HERMOGENES:
305 Craty|           rest?~HERMOGENES: Hardly.~SOCRATES: Well, then, let me go on
306 Craty|            That is surely probable.~SOCRATES: Yes; and the very word
307 Craty|        explained.~HERMOGENES: True.~SOCRATES: There is the meaning of
308 Craty|              HERMOGENES: Very true.~SOCRATES: That may be identified
309 Craty|            a very shabby etymology.~SOCRATES: Yes, my dear friend; but
310 Craty|     HERMOGENES: That is quite true, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And yet, if you
311 Craty|            is quite true, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And yet, if you are permitted
312 Craty|           object.~HERMOGENES: True.~SOCRATES: Yes, that is true. And
313 Craty|      HERMOGENES: Such is my desire.~SOCRATES: And mine, too, Hermogenes.
314 Craty|            your previous discourse?~SOCRATES: That is a very singular
315 Craty|            HERMOGENES: What device?~SOCRATES: The device of a foreign
316 Craty|    rationale of kalon and aischron.~SOCRATES: The meaning of aischron
317 Craty|           what do you say of kalon?~SOCRATES: That is more obscure; yet
318 Craty|       HERMOGENES: What do you mean?~SOCRATES: This name appears to denote
319 Craty|           mind.~HERMOGENES: How so?~SOCRATES: Let me ask you what is
320 Craty|              HERMOGENES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And must not this be the
321 Craty|           of both?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Is not mind that which
322 Craty|        HERMOGENES: That is evident.~SOCRATES: And are not the works of
323 Craty|              HERMOGENES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Physic does the work of
324 Craty|     carpenter?~HERMOGENES: Exactly.~SOCRATES: And the principle of beauty
325 Craty|              HERMOGENES: Of course.~SOCRATES: And that principle we affirm
326 Craty|              HERMOGENES: Very true.~SOCRATES: Then mind is rightly called
327 Craty|        HERMOGENES: That is evident.~SOCRATES: What more names remain
328 Craty|     kerdaleon, and their opposites.~SOCRATES: The meaning of sumpheron (
329 Craty|       HERMOGENES: That is probable.~SOCRATES: Again, cherdaleon (gainful)
330 Craty|            lusiteloun (profitable)?~SOCRATES: I suppose, Hermogenes,
331 Craty|             say of their opposites?~SOCRATES: Of such as are mere negatives
332 Craty|         HERMOGENES: Which are they?~SOCRATES: The words axumphoron (inexpedient),
333 Craty|       ungainful).~HERMOGENES: True.~SOCRATES: I would rather take the
334 Craty|         hurtful).~HERMOGENES: Good.~SOCRATES: The word blaberon is that
335 Craty|          bring out curious results, Socrates, in the use of names; and
336 Craty|             some prelude to Athene.~SOCRATES: That is the fault of the
337 Craty|             derivation of zemiodes?~SOCRATES: What is the meaning of
338 Craty|       HERMOGENES: What do you mean?~SOCRATES: I will try to explain.
339 Craty|        HERMOGENES: How do you mean?~SOCRATES: For example, in very ancient
340 Craty|           HERMOGENES: That is true.~SOCRATES: Do you observe that only
341 Craty|        desire.~HERMOGENES: Clearly.~SOCRATES: But now the name is so
342 Craty|        HERMOGENES: Such is my view.~SOCRATES: And do you know that the
343 Craty|            HERMOGENES: They did so.~SOCRATES: And zugon (yoke) has no
344 Craty|              HERMOGENES: There are.~SOCRATES: Proceeding in the same
345 Craty|          blaberon.~HERMOGENES: Yes, Socrates; that is quite plain.~SOCRATES:
346 Craty|      Socrates; that is quite plain.~SOCRATES: Not if you restore the
347 Craty|              desire), and the like, Socrates?~SOCRATES: I do not think,
348 Craty|             and the like, Socrates?~SOCRATES: I do not think, Hermogenes,
349 Craty|            and that class of words?~SOCRATES: Doxa is either derived
350 Craty|           quickening your pace now, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Why yes, the
351 Craty|            your pace now, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Why yes, the end I now
352 Craty|             has this name of onoma.~SOCRATES: You know the word maiesthai (
353 Craty|             as zetein (to enquire).~SOCRATES: The word onoma seems to
354 Craty|              show me their fitness.~SOCRATES: You mean to say, how should
355 Craty|        answer him?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: One way of giving the appearance
356 Craty|    suggested.~HERMOGENES: What way?~SOCRATES: To say that names which
357 Craty|            HERMOGENES: Very likely.~SOCRATES: Yes, very likely. But still
358 Craty|              HERMOGENES: Very true.~SOCRATES: And at what point ought
359 Craty|             you to be in the right.~SOCRATES: And suppose the names about
360 Craty|            HERMOGENES: Very likely.~SOCRATES: Quite so, Hermogenes; all
361 Craty|           do my best to assist you.~SOCRATES: I think that you will acknowledge
362 Craty|          HERMOGENES: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: All the names that we have
363 Craty|              HERMOGENES: Of course.~SOCRATES: And that this is true of
364 Craty|          names.~HERMOGENES: Surely.~SOCRATES: But the secondary, as I
365 Craty|        HERMOGENES: That is evident.~SOCRATES: Very good; but then how
366 Craty|           There would be no choice, Socrates.~SOCRATES: We should imitate
367 Craty|             be no choice, Socrates.~SOCRATES: We should imitate the nature
368 Craty|             could do anything else.~SOCRATES: We could not; for by bodily
369 Craty|              HERMOGENES: Very true.~SOCRATES: And when we want to express
370 Craty|             It must be so, I think.~SOCRATES: Then a name is a vocal
371 Craty|             HERMOGENES: I think so.~SOCRATES: Nay, my friend, I am disposed
372 Craty|           yet.~HERMOGENES: Why not?~SOCRATES: Because if we have we shall
373 Craty|             HERMOGENES: Quite true.~SOCRATES: Then could I have been
374 Craty|             that you would tell me, Socrates, what sort of an imitation
375 Craty|             an imitation is a name?~SOCRATES: In the first place, I should
376 Craty|              HERMOGENES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: But the art of naming appears
377 Craty|          drawing?~HERMOGENES: True.~SOCRATES: Again, is there not an
378 Craty|      HERMOGENES: I should think so.~SOCRATES: Well, and if any one could
379 Craty|        thing?~HERMOGENES: Quite so.~SOCRATES: The musician and the painter
380 Craty|              HERMOGENES: I imagine, Socrates, that he must be the namer,
381 Craty|           of whom we are in search.~SOCRATES: If this is true, then I
382 Craty|              HERMOGENES: Very good.~SOCRATES: But are these the only
383 Craty|   HERMOGENES: There must be others.~SOCRATES: So I should expect. But
384 Craty|           rhythms?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Must we not begin in the
385 Craty|        direction.~HERMOGENES: That, Socrates, I can quite believe.~SOCRATES:
386 Craty|      Socrates, I can quite believe.~SOCRATES: Well, but do you suppose
387 Craty|             am I likely to be able.~SOCRATES: Shall we leave them, then?
388 Craty|    HERMOGENES: I very much approve.~SOCRATES: That objects should be
389 Craty|              HERMOGENES: Certainly, Socrates.~SOCRATES: My first notions
390 Craty|    HERMOGENES: Certainly, Socrates.~SOCRATES: My first notions of original
391 Craty|             not; I will do my best.~SOCRATES: In the first place, the
392 Craty|            to say.~HERMOGENES: But, Socrates, as I was telling you before,
393 Craty|             here in the presence of Socrates, do you agree in what Socrates
394 Craty|      Socrates, do you agree in what Socrates has been saying about names,
395 Craty|            you will either learn of Socrates, or Socrates and I will
396 Craty|        either learn of Socrates, or Socrates and I will learn of you.~
397 Craty|           little trouble and oblige Socrates, and me too, who certainly
398 Craty|    certainly have a claim upon you.~SOCRATES: I am by no means positive,
399 Craty|            CRATYLUS: You are right, Socrates, in saying that I have made
400 Craty|          much to my mind.’~And you, Socrates, appear to me to be an oracle,
401 Craty|          unconsciously to yourself.~SOCRATES: Excellent Cratylus, I have
402 Craty| sufficiently proven?~CRATYLUS: Yes, Socrates, what you say, as I am disposed
403 Craty|            to think, is quite true.~SOCRATES: Names, then, are given
404 Craty|      instruct?~CRATYLUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And naming is an art, and
405 Craty|          artificers?~CRATYLUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And who are they?~CRATYLUS:
406 Craty|            whom you spoke at first.~SOCRATES: And does this art grow
407 Craty|          some worse?~CRATYLUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: The better painters execute
408 Craty|         them worse.~CRATYLUS: True.~SOCRATES: And among legislators,
409 Craty|            I do not agree with you.~SOCRATES: Then you do not think that
410 Craty|        worse?~CRATYLUS: No, indeed.~SOCRATES: Or that one name is better
411 Craty|            CRATYLUS: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: Then all names are rightly
412 Craty|           if they are names at all.~SOCRATES: Well, what do you say to
413 Craty|            which corresponds to it.~SOCRATES: And if a man were to call
414 Craty|         CRATYLUS: What do you mean?~SOCRATES: Are you maintaining that
415 Craty|            all ages.~CRATYLUS: Why, Socrates, how can a man say that
416 Craty|             the thing which is not?~SOCRATES: Your argument, friend,
417 Craty|            Neither spoken nor said.~SOCRATES: Nor uttered nor addressed?
418 Craty|            CRATYLUS: In my opinion, Socrates, the speaker would only
419 Craty|           only be talking nonsense.~SOCRATES: Well, but that will be
420 Craty|          hammering at a brazen pot.~SOCRATES: But let us see, Cratylus,
421 Craty|          named?~CRATYLUS: I should.~SOCRATES: And would you further acknowledge
422 Craty|         thing?~CRATYLUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And you would say that
423 Craty|         another way?~CRATYLUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: I believe you may be right,
424 Craty|      imitation.~CRATYLUS: They are.~SOCRATES: First look at the matter
425 Craty|            on?~CRATYLUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And conversely you may
426 Craty|           man?~CRATYLUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: And are both modes of assigning
427 Craty|           CRATYLUS: Only the first.~SOCRATES: That is to say, the mode
428 Craty|          CRATYLUS: That is my view.~SOCRATES: Now then, as I am desirous
429 Craty|         CRATYLUS: That may be true, Socrates, in the case of pictures;
430 Craty|          they must be always right.~SOCRATES: Why, what is the difference?
431 Craty|         sight.~CRATYLUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And may I not go to him
432 Craty|          would fain agree with you, Socrates; and therefore I say, Granted.~
433 Craty|           therefore I say, Granted.~SOCRATES: That is very good of you,
434 Craty|          what you say is very true.~SOCRATES: And further, primitive
435 Craty|           not?~CRATYLUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: And he who gives all gives
436 Craty|            good one.~CRATYLUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: In like manner, he who
437 Craty|             CRATYLUS: That is true.~SOCRATES: Then the artist of names
438 Craty|          may be bad?~CRATYLUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And this artist of names
439 Craty|          legislator?~CRATYLUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then like other artists
440 Craty|          good?~CRATYLUS: Very true, Socrates; but the case of language,
441 Craty|          becomes other than a name.~SOCRATES: But I doubt whether your
442 Craty|         Cratylus.~CRATYLUS: How so?~SOCRATES: I believe that what you
443 Craty|          there were two Cratyluses.~SOCRATES: Then you see, my friend,
444 Craty|    represent?~CRATYLUS: Yes, I see.~SOCRATES: But then how ridiculous
445 Craty|    realities.~CRATYLUS: Quite true.~SOCRATES: Then fear not, but have
446 Craty|          CRATYLUS: Yes, I remember.~SOCRATES: Good; and when the general
447 Craty|      CRATYLUS: I quite acknowledge, Socrates, what you say to be very
448 Craty|          say to be very reasonable.~SOCRATES: Then as we are agreed thus
449 Craty|             letters.~CRATYLUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And the proper letters
450 Craty|          the things?~CRATYLUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: Enough then of names which
451 Craty|              There would be no use, Socrates, in my quarrelling with
452 Craty|             given is a name at all.~SOCRATES: Do you admit a name to
453 Craty|         thing?~CRATYLUS: Yes, I do.~SOCRATES: But do you not allow that
454 Craty|       derived?~CRATYLUS: Yes, I do.~SOCRATES: Then if you admit that
455 Craty|         Representation by likeness, Socrates, is infinitely better than
456 Craty|  representation by any chance sign.~SOCRATES: Very good: but if the name
457 Craty|     composed?~CRATYLUS: Impossible.~SOCRATES: No more could names ever
458 Craty|             letters?~CRATYLUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: Let me now invite you to
459 Craty|            say that you were right.~SOCRATES: And that lamda was expressive
460 Craty|         There again you were right.~SOCRATES: And yet, as you are aware,
461 Craty|     skleroter.~CRATYLUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: But are the letters rho
462 Craty|         significance to both of us.~SOCRATES: In as far as they are like,
463 Craty|            as far as they are like.~SOCRATES: Are they altogether alike?~
464 Craty|       purpose of expressing motion.~SOCRATES: And what do you say of
465 Craty|          lamda is wrongly inserted, Socrates, and should be altered into
466 Craty|  subtracting letters upon occasion.~SOCRATES: Good. But still the word
467 Craty|      explanation of that is custom.~SOCRATES: And what is custom but
468 Craty|          are saying?~CRATYLUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And if when I speak you
469 Craty|           me to you?~CRATYLUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: This indication of my meaning
470 Craty|         CRATYLUS: The use of names, Socrates, as I should imagine, is
471 Craty|        which are expressed by them.~SOCRATES: I suppose you mean to say,
472 Craty|           is precisely what I mean.~SOCRATES: But let us consider what
473 Craty|              there can be no other.~SOCRATES: But do you believe that
474 Craty|         same nature as instruction.~SOCRATES: Well, but do you not see,
475 Craty|         deceived?~CRATYLUS: How so?~SOCRATES: Why clearly he who first
476 Craty|             he not?~CRATYLUS: True.~SOCRATES: And if his conception was
477 Craty|     deceived by him?~CRATYLUS: But, Socrates, am I not right in thinking
478 Craty|       common character and purpose?~SOCRATES: But that, friend Cratylus,
479 Craty|      meaning, and the true meaning.~SOCRATES: Let us revert to episteme (
480 Craty|           of motion.~CRATYLUS: Yes, Socrates, but observe; the greater
481 Craty|      greater number express motion.~SOCRATES: What of that, Cratylus?
482 Craty|             that is not reasonable.~SOCRATES: Certainly not. But let
483 Craty|   legislator?~CRATYLUS: Quite true.~SOCRATES: Tell me, then, did the
484 Craty|     CRATYLUS: They must have known, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Why, yes, friend
485 Craty|          must have known, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Why, yes, friend Cratylus,
486 Craty|         CRATYLUS: I should say not.~SOCRATES: Let us return to the point
487 Craty|            opinion?~CRATYLUS: I am.~SOCRATES: And would you say that
488 Craty|          named?~CRATYLUS: I should.~SOCRATES: But how could he have learned
489 Craty|          good deal in what you say, Socrates.~SOCRATES: But if things
490 Craty|             what you say, Socrates.~SOCRATES: But if things are only
491 Craty|          them?~CRATYLUS: I believe, Socrates, the true account of the
492 Craty|       necessarily their true names.~SOCRATES: Then how came the giver
493 Craty|             not to be names at all.~SOCRATES: And which, then, did he
494 Craty|      CRATYLUS: No; not in that way, Socrates.~SOCRATES: But if this is
495 Craty|          not in that way, Socrates.~SOCRATES: But if this is a battle
496 Craty|          things.~CRATYLUS: I agree.~SOCRATES: But if that is true, Cratylus,
497 Craty|           names?~CRATYLUS: Clearly.~SOCRATES: But how would you expect
498 Craty|           saying is, I think, true.~SOCRATES: Well, but reflect; have
499 Craty|           they name?~CRATYLUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: Let us suppose that to
500 Craty|            must learn of the truth.~SOCRATES: How real existence is to