Dialogue

  1 Craty|      consciousness and had not found names for themselves, or terms
  2 Craty|           expounds the doctrine that names are conventional; like the
  3 Craty|           are conventional; like the names of slaves, they may be given
  4 Craty|           that things have by nature names; for nature is not opposed
  5 Craty|            embodied in words. Of the names of the ideas, he would have
  6 Craty|              said, as he says of the names of the Gods, that we know
  7 Craty|              out of Homer, about the names of Hector’s son, or when
  8 Craty|              his first notions about names to be reckless and ridiculous.
  9 Craty|             are only speaking of our names of them, occur among these
 10 Craty|         correctness, or principle of names?~After illustrating the
 11 Craty|              truth or correctness of names can only be ascertained
 12 Craty|              etymology. The truth of names is to be found in the analysis
 13 Craty|          into heroes; ‘the givers of names were like some philosophers
 14 Craty|           higher than a knowledge of names, and that there can be no
 15 Craty|              have been arguing about names; the former maintaining
 16 Craty|              truth or correctness of names? Socrates replies, that
 17 Craty|         knowledge, and the nature of names is a considerable part of
 18 Craty|             there is no principle in names; they may be changed, as
 19 Craty|            changed, as we change the names of slaves, whenever we please,
 20 Craty|              and the least parts are names, and therefore names may
 21 Craty|             are names, and therefore names may be true or false. Would
 22 Craty|             to anything, and as many names as he pleases; and would
 23 Craty|         pleases; and would all these names be always true at the time
 24 Craty|           which he can conceive that names are correct; and he appeals
 25 Craty|          name? Does not the law give names, and does not the teacher
 26 Craty|         materials and forms of which names are made in Hellas and other
 27 Craty|             who knows how to use the names—he who can ask and answer
 28 Craty|       legislator how he is to impose names; for to express the ideal
 29 Craty|          this natural correctness of names.’~Indeed I cannot; but I
 30 Craty|            there is a correctness of names, and that not every one
 31 Craty|         Homer, who distinguishes the names given by Gods and men to
 32 Craty|             be right in their use of names. And this is not the only
 33 Craty|            that Hector’s son had two names—~‘Hector called him Scamandrius,
 34 Craty|           father saved the city. The names Astyanax and Hector, moreover,
 35 Craty|           retained. For example; the names of letters, whether vowels
 36 Craty|       resembles the parent, then the names no longer agree. This may
 37 Craty|           how shall we proceed? What names will afford the most crucial
 38 Craty|             more explanations of the names of the Gods, like that excellent
 39 Craty|             one of Zeus.’ The truest names of the Gods are those which
 40 Craty|             them, but only about the names which they usually bear.
 41 Craty|         among the first inventors of names, both in our own and in
 42 Craty|             greater marvels. For the names Cronos and Rhea cannot have
 43 Craty|              things, is indicated in names. ‘No, I never did.’ Phronesis
 44 Craty|           help me in the search?~All names, whether primary or secondary,
 45 Craty|             then, how do the primary names indicate anything? And let
 46 Craty|             that we may consider the names about which you were asking.
 47 Craty|              that God gave the first names, and therefore they are
 48 Craty|             the like; the imposer of names perceived that the tongue
 49 Craty|    Hermogenes, of the correctness of names; and I should like to hear
 50 Craty|              means by the fitness of names?’ To this appeal, Cratylus
 51 Craty|         Cratylus agree with him that names teach us the nature of things? ‘
 52 Craty|             and make better or worse names. Cratylus cannot admit that
 53 Craty|        another; they are either true names, or they are not names at
 54 Craty|          true names, or they are not names at all; and when he is asked
 55 Craty|           you would acknowledge that names, as well as pictures, are
 56 Craty|            man or woman:—why may not names then equally give a representation
 57 Craty|      representation, but denies that names can. Socrates argues, that
 58 Craty|             or a wrong assignment of names, and if of names, then of
 59 Craty|       assignment of names, and if of names, then of verbs and nouns;
 60 Craty|            name still. The artist of names, that is, the legislator,
 61 Craty|            to be 10, but denies that names are of this purely quantitative
 62 Craty|             counterparts, why should names be? if they were, they would
 63 Craty|             like. How could there be names for all the numbers unless
 64 Craty|              is the use and force of names? ‘The use of names, Socrates,
 65 Craty|          force of names? ‘The use of names, Socrates, is to inform,
 66 Craty|             inform, and he who knows names knows things.’ Do you mean
 67 Craty|           mean that the discovery of names is the same as the discovery
 68 Craty|            degree of deception about names? He who first gave names,
 69 Craty|             names? He who first gave names, gave them according to
 70 Craty|              pragmasin. Thus the bad names are framed on the same principle
 71 Craty|      Cratylus; and is correctness of names to be determined by the
 72 Craty|            that the legislator gives names; and therefore we must suppose
 73 Craty|            knows the things which he names: but how can he have learnt
 74 Craty|              have learnt things from names before there were any names? ‘
 75 Craty|          names before there were any names? ‘I believe, Socrates, that
 76 Craty|              first gave things their names, and that these were necessarily
 77 Craty|          these were necessarily true names.’ Then how came the giver
 78 Craty|           Then how came the giver of names to contradict himself, and
 79 Craty|            himself, and to make some names expressive of rest, and
 80 Craty|             of motion?...But if some names are true and others false,
 81 Craty|          things may be known without names; for names, as we have several
 82 Craty|             known without names; for names, as we have several times
 83 Craty|            is not to be derived from names; and though I do not doubt
 84 Craty|           inventors of language gave names, under the idea that all
 85 Craty|            his mind, in the power of names: he will not condemn himself
 86 Craty|              is a natural fitness in names. He only insists that this
 87 Craty|              process by which proper names were converted into common,
 88 Craty|         enquiries to the imposers of names...In this and other passages
 89 Craty|             remark that although the names of objects were originally
 90 Craty|       objects were originally proper names, as the grammarian or logician
 91 Craty|              forgetfulness of proper names (more commonly than of other
 92 Craty|      Cratylus has been arguing about names; he says that they are natural
 93 Craty|              truth or correctness of names, which I would far sooner
 94 Craty|          good.’ And the knowledge of names is a great part of knowledge.
 95 Craty|             about the correctness of names. But, indeed, I have only
 96 Craty|          principle of correctness in names other than convention and
 97 Craty|             we frequently change the names of our slaves, and the newly-imposed
 98 Craty|  propositions may be true and false, names may be true and false?~HERMOGENES:
 99 Craty|            And will there be so many names of each thing as everybody
100 Craty|           are? and will they be true names at the time of uttering
101 Craty|           conceive no correctness of names other than this; you give
102 Craty|        countries there are different names for the same things; Hellenes
103 Craty|           barbarians in their use of names, and the several Hellenic
104 Craty|             the things differ as the names differ? and are they relative
105 Craty|              speaking? for in giving names men speak.~HERMOGENES: That
106 Craty|          would lead us to infer that names ought to be given according
107 Craty|             a similar question about names: will you answer me? Regarding
108 Craty|           least say who gives us the names which we use?~HERMOGENES:
109 Craty|            name, but only a maker of names; and this is the legislator,
110 Craty|             does the legislator make names? and to what does he look?
111 Craty|           Yes.~SOCRATES: Then, as to names: ought not our legislator
112 Craty|             and to make and give all names with a view to the ideal
113 Craty|            the legislator is to give names, and the dialectician must
114 Craty|          must be his director if the names are to be rightly given?~
115 Craty|              say that this giving of names can be no such light matter
116 Craty|              saying that things have names by nature, and that not
117 Craty|         every man is an artificer of names, but he only who looks to
118 Craty|          term the natural fitness of names.~SOCRATES: My good Hermogenes,
119 Craty|              we have discovered that names have by nature a truth,
120 Craty|              truth or correctness of names? That, if you care to know,
121 Craty|      Protagoras about the fitness of names.~HERMOGENES: But how inconsistent
122 Craty|             Homer say anything about names, and what does he say?~SOCRATES:
123 Craty|          distinguishes the different names which Gods and men give
124 Craty|             about the correctness of names? For the Gods must clearly
125 Craty|              their right and natural names; do you not think so?~HERMOGENES:
126 Craty| understanding of you and me; but the names of Scamandrius and Astyanax,
127 Craty|             affirms to have been the names of Hector’s son, are more
128 Craty|              the more correct of the names given to Hector’s son—Astyanax
129 Craty|          more likely to give correct names?~HERMOGENES: I should say
130 Craty|             about the correctness of names.~HERMOGENES: I assure you
131 Craty|         illustrate my meaning by the names of letters, which you know
132 Craty|         upsilon, omicron, omega; the names of the rest, whether vowels
133 Craty|              how to give the letters names.~HERMOGENES: I believe you
134 Craty|            As was just now said, the names of Hector and Astyanax have
135 Craty|            with the letters of their names has Archepolis (ruler of
136 Craty|             And there are many other names which just mean ‘king.’
137 Craty|             Again, there are several names for a general, as, for example,
138 Craty|              Yes.~SOCRATES: The same names, then, ought to be assigned
139 Craty|             of God), or any of these names: if names are correctly
140 Craty|            or any of these names: if names are correctly given, his
141 Craty|          finish the investigation of names—that will be the way; but
142 Craty|            rest of the enquiry about names.~SOCRATES: Then let us proceed;
143 Craty|           the enquiry? Are there any names which witness of themselves
144 Craty|          have a natural fitness? The names of heroes and of men in
145 Craty|           after ancestors with whose names, as we were saying, they
146 Craty|           finding correctness in the names of immutable essences;—there
147 Craty|          occasionally in giving them names.~HERMOGENES: I think so,
148 Craty|           letters in words, and give names as we please and change
149 Craty|             more explanations of the names of the Gods, like that which
150 Craty|              their natures or of the names which they give themselves;
151 Craty|             but we are sure that the names by which they call themselves,
152 Craty|          them by any sort or kind of names or patronymics which they
153 Craty|             men in giving them these names,—in this there can be small
154 Craty|    Hermogenes, the first imposers of names must surely have been considerable
155 Craty|          attribute the imposition of names. Even in foreign names,
156 Craty|            of names. Even in foreign names, if you analyze them, a
157 Craty|       inferring that he who gave the names of Cronos and Rhea to the
158 Craty|    Heracleitus? Is the giving of the names of streams to both of them
159 Craty|           ignorance of the nature of names. But they go changing the
160 Craty|            explanation of both these names; the serious explanation
161 Craty|           dianoia), and the maker of names appears to have had a singular
162 Craty|     demonstrate the fitness of these names according to the Hellenic
163 Craty|            the seasons), and the two names of the year, eniautos and
164 Craty|           within is one, but has two names, two words etos and eniautos
165 Craty|             is a tremendous class of names which you are disinterring;
166 Craty|          that the primeval givers of names were undoubtedly like too
167 Craty|             The consideration of the names which I mentioned has led
168 Craty|              not observe that in the names which have been just cited,
169 Craty|        ground. There are a good many names generally thought to be
170 Craty|           you know that the original names have been long ago buried
171 Craty|            letters which you please, names will be too easily made,
172 Craty|             kalesan) things by their names, and is not mind the beautiful (
173 Craty|         evident.~SOCRATES: What more names remain to us?~HERMOGENES:
174 Craty|              Socrates, in the use of names; and when I hear the word
175 Craty|            praise; and the author of names has not contradicted himself,
176 Craty|           way?~SOCRATES: To say that names which we do not understand
177 Craty|           lost in the lapse of ages; names have been so twisted in
178 Craty|             a person go on analysing names into words, and enquiring
179 Craty|            stop when he comes to the names which are the elements of
180 Craty|            the elements of all other names and sentences; for these
181 Craty|      supposed to be made up of other names? The word agathon (good),
182 Craty|            SOCRATES: And suppose the names about which you are now
183 Craty|             the principle of primary names.~HERMOGENES: Let me hear,
184 Craty|       principle is applicable to all names, primary as well as secondary—
185 Craty|          they are regarded simply as names, there is no difference
186 Craty|     Certainly not.~SOCRATES: All the names that we have been explaining
187 Craty|             much as of the secondary names, is implied in their being
188 Craty|            is implied in their being names.~HERMOGENES: Surely.~SOCRATES:
189 Craty|              then how do the primary names which precede analysis show
190 Craty|               if they are to be real names? And here I will ask you
191 Craty|             which the vocal imitator names or imitates?~HERMOGENES:
192 Craty|             the painter were the two names which you gave to the two
193 Craty|            condition to consider the names ron (stream), ienai (to
194 Craty|           are these the only primary names, or are there others?~HERMOGENES:
195 Craty|           things, we shall give them names, and see whether, as in
196 Craty|          look for the truth of first names. Deprived of this, we must
197 Craty|              the Gods gave the first names, and therefore they are
198 Craty|      ignorance of first or primitive names involves an ignorance of
199 Craty|           lucid explanation of first names, or let him be assured he
200 Craty|            first notions of original names are truly wild and ridiculous,
201 Craty|           appeared to the imposer of names an excellent instrument
202 Craty|           introduced by the giver of names when he wants to imitate
203 Craty|               and impressing on them names and signs, and out of them
204 Craty|          Hermogenes, of the truth of names; but I should like to hear
205 Craty|           that there is a fitness of names, but he never explains what
206 Craty|       Socrates has been saying about names, or have you something better
207 Craty|        better theory of the truth of names, you may count me in the
208 Craty|             is quite true.~SOCRATES: Names, then, are given in order
209 Craty|              not.~SOCRATES: Then all names are rightly imposed?~CRATYLUS:
210 Craty|           CRATYLUS: Yes, if they are names at all.~SOCRATES: Well,
211 Craty|             applied to figures or to names, I call right, and when
212 Craty|           right, and when applied to names only, true as well as right;
213 Craty|            wrong, and in the case of names, false as well as wrong.~
214 Craty|               but not in the case of names—they must be always right.~
215 Craty|         present. But if I can assign names as well as pictures to objects,
216 Craty|           such a wrong assignment of names, there may also be a wrong
217 Craty|       assignment of verbs; and if of names and verbs then of the sentences,
218 Craty|             whence I infer that some names are well and others ill
219 Craty|         SOCRATES: Then the artist of names may be sometimes good, or
220 Craty|         SOCRATES: And this artist of names is called the legislator?~
221 Craty|         truth in images, and also in names; and not insist that an
222 Craty|    ridiculous would be the effect of names on things, if they were
223 Craty|             determine which were the names and which were the realities.~
224 Craty|           particular instance of the names of the letters.~CRATYLUS:
225 Craty|             notion of correctness of names, and no longer maintain
226 Craty|             SOCRATES: Enough then of names which are rightly given.
227 Craty|            are rightly given. And in names which are incorrectly given,
228 Craty|            many others, who say that names are conventional, and have
229 Craty|       letters out of which the first names are composed must also be
230 Craty|              SOCRATES: No more could names ever resemble any actually
231 Craty|             the objects of which the names are the imitation: And the
232 Craty|           friend, that you will find names resembling every individual
233 Craty|       determining the correctness of names? I quite agree with you
234 Craty|            you, what is the force of names, and what is the use of
235 Craty|           them?~CRATYLUS: The use of names, Socrates, as I should imagine,
236 Craty|          truth is, that he who knows names knows also the things which
237 Craty|          would say that he who knows names will also know things.~CRATYLUS:
238 Craty|     according to you, is given us by names. Is it the best sort of
239 Craty|           them, he who discovers the names discovers also the things;
240 Craty|        Cratylus, that he who follows names in the search after things,
241 Craty|            clearly he who first gave names gave them according to his
242 Craty|           was erroneous, and he gave names according to his conception,
243 Craty|           else, as I was saying, his names would not be names at all?
244 Craty|               his names would not be names at all? And you have a clear
245 Craty|              astonished to find that names are really consistent. And
246 Craty|            of motion is expressed by names? Do you not conceive that
247 Craty|             tois pragmasin. Thus the names which in these instances
248 Craty|       examples in which the giver of names indicates, not that things
249 Craty|         votes? and is correctness of names the voice of the majority?
250 Craty|             that the first givers of names in states, both Hellenic
251 Craty|              that the art which gave names was the art of the legislator?~
252 Craty|              the givers of the first names, know or not know the things
253 Craty|           remember, that he who gave names must have known the things
254 Craty|          that the giver of the first names had also a knowledge of
255 Craty|            or discovered things from names if the primitive names were
256 Craty|          from names if the primitive names were not yet given? For,
257 Craty|        things, is either to discover names for ourselves or to learn
258 Craty|             only to be known through names, how can we suppose that
259 Craty|           suppose that the givers of names had knowledge, or were legislators
260 Craty|        legislators before there were names at all, and therefore before
261 Craty|              gave things their first names, and that the names which
262 Craty|            first names, and that the names which are thus given are
263 Craty|           are necessarily their true names.~SOCRATES: Then how came
264 Craty|            how came the giver of the names, if he was an inspired being
265 Craty|           just now that he made some names expressive of rest and others
266 Craty|             one of the two not to be names at all.~SOCRATES: And which,
267 Craty|           But if this is a battle of names, some of them asserting
268 Craty|               For there are no other names to which appeal can be made,
269 Craty|             which, without employing names, will make clear which of
270 Craty|          things may be known without names?~CRATYLUS: Clearly.~SOCRATES:
271 Craty|              times acknowledged that names rightly given are the likenesses
272 Craty|         things through the medium of names, and suppose also that you
273 Craty|            is not to be derived from names. No; they must be studied
274 Craty|    appearance of such a multitude of names, all tending in the same
275 Craty|              deny that the givers of names did really give them under
276 Craty|             his mind in the power of names: neither will he so far
277 Craty|         neither will he so far trust names or the givers of names as
278 Craty|         trust names or the givers of names as to be confident in any