1-500 | 501-885
Book
1 1 | DIALOGUE: An ATHENIAN STRANGER; CLEINIAS, a Cretan; MEGILLUS, a Lacedaemonian~
2 1 | the author of your laws?~Cleinias. A God, Stranger; in very
3 1 | Certainly.~Athenian. And do you, Cleinias, believe, as Homer tells,
4 1 | make laws for your cities?~Cleinias. Yes, that is our tradition;
5 1 | the time by conversation.~Cleinias. Yes, Stranger, and if we
6 1 | converse.~Athenian. Very good.~Cleinias. Very good, indeed; and
7 1 | exercises, and wear arms.~Cleinias. I think, Stranger, that
8 1 | this to be your meaning?~Cleinias. Certainly; and our Lacedaemonian
9 1 | states, or also to villages?~Cleinias. To both alike.~Athenian.
10 1 | Athenian. The case is the same?~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. And in the
11 1 | individual against individual?~Cleinias. The same.~Athenian. And
12 1 | enemy:—what shall we say?~Cleinias. O Athenian Stranger—inhabitant
13 1 | sir, what do you mean?)—~Cleinias. ... Moreover, there is
14 1 | village, and the state?~Cleinias. You mean that in each of
15 1 | to self?~Athenian. Yes.~Cleinias. You are quite right in
16 1 | superior and therefore good.~Cleinias. Your remark, Stranger,
17 1 | just may be in a minority.~Cleinias. Very possibly.~Athenian.
18 1 | right and wrong in laws.~Cleinias. What you say, Stranger,
19 1 | of whom we were speaking?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Now,
20 1 | able to keep them friends.~Cleinias. The last would be by far
21 1 | would be the reverse of war.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And
22 1 | of as soon as possible?~Cleinias. He would have the latter
23 1 | attention to foreign enemies?~Cleinias. Every one would desire
24 1 | desire of the legislator?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And
25 1 | for the sake of the best?~Cleinias. To be sure.~Athenian. But
26 1 | war for the sake of peace.~Cleinias. I suppose that there is
27 1 | them.~Megillus. Very true.~Cleinias. And they have found their
28 1 | and I and Megillus and Cleinias of Cnosus do, as I believe,
29 1 | milder form of warfare.~Cleinias. Certainly, far milder.~
30 1 | and he must admit this.~Cleinias. Evidently.~Athenian. They
31 1 | to be only fourth rate.~Cleinias. Stranger, we are degrading
32 1 | mainly with a view to war.~Cleinias. What ought we to say then?~
33 1 | you expound the matter?~Cleinias. By all means.~Athenian.
34 1 | mankind like ourselves.~Cleinias. How shall we proceed, Stranger?~
35 1 | themselves:—Were you not, Cleinias?~Cleinias. I was.~Athenian.
36 1 | Were you not, Cleinias?~Cleinias. I was.~Athenian. Now, which
37 1 | by pleasure or by pain?~Cleinias. I should say the man who
38 1 | which come from the right?~Cleinias. Able to meet both, I should
39 1 | which I might mention.~Cleinias. Neither can I show anything
40 1 | kindly what another says.~Cleinias. You are quite right, Athenian
41 1 | Athenian. At our time of life, Cleinias, there should be no feeling
42 1 | no feeling of irritation.~Cleinias. Certainly not.~Athenian.
43 1 | no young man is present.~Cleinias. Exactly so, Stranger; and
44 1 | matters now that we are alone.~Cleinias. True. And therefore you
45 1 | you assent to my words?~Cleinias. On first hearing, what
46 1 | simple.~Athenian. Suppose, Cleinias and Megillus, that we consider
47 1 | they were utterly wrong.~Cleinias. What do you mean, Stranger,
48 1 | there ought to be a leader?~Cleinias. Certainly I should.~Athenian.
49 1 | ought to be a brave man?~Cleinias. We were.~Athenian. The
50 1 | to be disturbed by fears?~Cleinias. That again is true.~Athenian.
51 1 | by all means appoint him?~Cleinias. Assuredly.~Athenian. Now,
52 1 | friend in time of peace.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. And that
53 1 | drunkenness, is apt to be unquiet.~Cleinias. Certainly; the reverse
54 1 | soldiers will require a ruler?~Cleinias. To be sure; no men more
55 1 | them with a quiet ruler?~Cleinias. Of course.~Athenian. And
56 1 | his use of the occasion.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. Must
57 1 | from doing some great evil.~Cleinias. It will be by a singular
58 1 | which he has the direction?~Cleinias. The last remark is very
59 1 | education is never suicidal.~Cleinias. You seem to imply, my friend,
60 1 | Athenian. Certainly I do.~Cleinias. And can you show that what
61 1 | laws and constitutions.~Cleinias. Your opinion, Stranger,
62 1 | whatever you have to say.~Cleinias. Yes, Stranger; and when
63 1 | onwards to the God Dionysus.~Cleinias. Let us proceed, if you
64 1 | whether they satisfy you?~Cleinias. Let us hear.~Athenian.
65 1 | agree with me thus far?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Then
66 1 | every man while he lives.~Cleinias. Very true; and we entirely
67 1 | and bad men who are not.~Cleinias. You are quite right.~Athenian.
68 1 | which I will offer you.~Cleinias. Proceed.~Athenian. Do we
69 1 | of ourselves to be one?~Cleinias. We do.~Athenian. And each
70 1 | pleasure, and the other pain.~Cleinias. Exactly.~Athenian. Also
71 1 | the State, is called Law.~Cleinias. I am hardly able to follow
72 1 | words than were necessary.~Cleinias. Perhaps, however, the theme
73 1 | bears on our present object.~Cleinias. Proceed.~Athenian. Suppose
74 1 | will be the effect on him?~Cleinias. Having what in view do
75 1 | and passions and loves?~Cleinias. Very greatly.~Athenian.
76 1 | becomes saturated with drink?~Cleinias. Yes, they entirely desert
77 1 | was when a young child?~Cleinias. He does.~Athenian. Then
78 1 | least control over himself?~Cleinias. The least.~Athenian. And
79 1 | a most wretched plight?~Cleinias. Most wretched.~Athenian.
80 1 | becomes a second time a child?~Cleinias. Well said, Stranger.~Athenian.
81 1 | all we can to avoid it?~Cleinias. I suppose that there is;
82 1 | are anxious to hear me.~Cleinias. To sure we are, if only
83 1 | you speaking of the soul?~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. And what
84 1 | ugliness, decrepitude?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Yet
85 1 | to a state of weakness?~Cleinias. Yes, all that is well known.~
86 1 | the subsequent benefit?~Cleinias. Very good.~Athenian. And
87 1 | way of other practices?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And
88 1 | same good effect follows?~Cleinias. To be sure.~Athenian. If
89 1 | no accompaniment of pain.~Cleinias. True; but I hardly think
90 1 | which are very different?~Cleinias. What are they?~Athenian.
91 1 | the fear of expected evil.~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. And there
92 1 | and all men term shame.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. These
93 1 | numerous sort of pleasures.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And
94 1 | individuals and to states.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Does not
95 1 | disgrace before friends.~Cleinias. There are.~Athenian. Then
96 1 | has now been determined.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And
97 1 | to face with many fears.~Cleinias. Clearly.~Athenian. And
98 1 | be perfectly temperate?~Cleinias. A most unlikely supposition.~
99 1 | influence of the draught.~Cleinias. But has such a draught,
100 1 | cowardice of your citizens?”~Cleinias. “I should,” will be the
101 1 | danger than the reverse?”~Cleinias. In that proposition every
102 1 | reason for abstaining?”~Cleinias. He would be certain, Stranger,
103 1 | overcome by the potion.~Cleinias. Yes, Stranger, in that
104 1 | and indiscreet boasting?~Cleinias. I suppose that he will
105 1 | ready to do or say anything.~Cleinias. I think that every one
106 1 | secondly, the greatest fear—~Cleinias. Which you said to be characteristic
107 1 | trained among opposites.~Cleinias. That is probably the case.~
108 1 | do anything that is base.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Are not
109 1 | speedier than any other.~Cleinias. That is certainly true.~
110 1 | not mistaken, is politics.~Cleinias. Exactly so.~
111 2 | may be entangled in error.~Cleinias. Proceed.~Athenian. Let
112 2 | of convivial intercourse.~Cleinias. You talk rather grandly.~
113 2 | rightly called education.~Cleinias. I think, Stranger, that
114 2 | Muses? What do you say?~Cleinias. I assent.~Athenian. And
115 2 | who has been well trained?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And
116 2 | two parts, dance and song?~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Then he
117 2 | to sing and dance well?~Cleinias. I suppose that he will.~
118 2 | see; what are we saying?~Cleinias. What?~Athenian. He sings
119 2 | and dances what is good?~Cleinias. Let us make the addition.~
120 2 | offended at what is evil?~Cleinias. There is a great difference,
121 2 | whether there is any or not.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Let us
122 2 | whether Hellenic or barbarian.~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. And what
123 2 | utterance to the same sounds?~Cleinias. How can they, when the
124 2 | are the reverse of good.~Cleinias. Your suggestion is excellent;
125 2 | with every sort of dance?~Cleinias. Far otherwise.~Athenian.
126 2 | account of the delusion.~Cleinias. What?~Athenian. The adaptation
127 2 | secret pleasure in them.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And
128 2 | opposite sort of pleasure?~Cleinias. I think that there is.~
129 2 | destiny ever make us undergo?~Cleinias. I know of none.~Athenian.
130 2 | reference to virtue or vice?~Cleinias. That is surely quite unreasonable,
131 2 | the exception of Egypt.~Cleinias. And what are the laws about
132 2 | with just the same skill.~Cleinias. How extraordinary!~Athenian.
133 2 | being corrupted in Egypt.~Cleinias. Your arguments seem to
134 2 | prosper when we rejoice?~Cleinias. Exactly.~Athenian. And
135 2 | are unable to be still?~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Our young
136 2 | the memory of our youth.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. Is
137 2 | of speaking or of acting?~Cleinias. Possibly.~Athenian. But,
138 2 | of such a proclamation?~Cleinias. In what respect?~Athenian.
139 2 | ought to be the victor?~Cleinias. I do not see how any one
140 2 | which you deem so absurd?~Cleinias. By all means.~Athenian.
141 2 | decide for the puppet show.~Cleinias. Of course.~Athenian. The
142 2 | general, will favour tragedy.~Cleinias. Very likely.~Athenian.
143 2 | victor?—that is the question.~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. Clearly
144 2 | exist anywhere in the world.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Thus
145 2 | this? Shall I tell you?~Cleinias. What?~Athenian. The inference
146 2 | and in every way good men.~Cleinias. But do you really imagine,
147 2 | same.~Athenian. Most true, Cleinias; and I daresay that I may
148 2 | among the other Hellenes?~Cleinias. Certainly they are.~Athenian.
149 2 | present state of things?~Cleinias. A very great improvement,
150 2 | and I agreed about this?~Cleinias. I think that we partly
151 2 | miserable rather than happy.~Cleinias. That is quite true.~Athenian.
152 2 | will surely grant so much?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And
153 2 | Athenian. And an evil life too?~Cleinias. I am not equally disposed
154 2 | to his own disadvantage?~Cleinias. How can I possibly say
155 2 | are of two. To me, dear Cleinias, the truth of what I am
156 2 | pleasant, but evil and base?~Cleinias. Impossible.~Athenian. The
157 2 | appearance of both of them.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. And which
158 2 | inferior or of the better soul?~Cleinias. Surely, that of the better
159 2 | the just and holy life?~Cleinias. That seems to be implied
160 2 | compulsion but voluntarily.~Cleinias. Truth, Stranger, is a noble
161 2 | innumerable other tales.~Cleinias. What is that story?~Athenian.
162 2 | argue on the other side.~Cleinias. I do not see that any argument
163 2 | we might address to them.~Cleinias. I assent to what you say.~
164 2 | the voice of an oracle.~Cleinias. Who are those who compose
165 2 | said with a view to them.~Cleinias. Will you try to be a little
166 2 | remember, was the third.~Cleinias. I quite remember.~Athenian.
167 2 | which is that of Dionysus.~Cleinias. How is that arranged? There
168 2 | reason for the proposal.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Are
169 2 | Are we agreed thus far?~Cleinias. About what?~Athenian. That
170 2 | may never weary of them?~Cleinias. Every one will agree.~Athenian.
171 2 | the most useful of songs?~Cleinias. But, says the argument,
172 2 | decorum? Will this be the way?~Cleinias. What?~Athenian. When a
173 2 | grows;—is not this true?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Well,
174 2 | very unwilling to exhibit.~Cleinias. No doubt.~Athenian. How,
175 2 | to chant, and to enchant?~Cleinias. He will be far more ready.~
176 2 | to join with us in song.~Cleinias. None at all.~Athenian.
177 2 | be one suitable to them.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And
178 2 | they sing a choric strain?~Cleinias. Truly, Stranger, we of
179 2 | in individuals or states.~Cleinias. Once more, Stranger, I
180 2 | and want to have the best.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. When
181 2 | is their true rightness.~Cleinias. Just so.~Athenian. Thus,
182 2 | which the truth gives to it.~Cleinias. Exactly.~Athenian. And
183 2 | be said to have a charm?~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. But equal
184 2 | them truth or rightness.~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. Then that
185 2 | other qualities are absent.~Cleinias. You are speaking of harmless
186 2 | degree worth speaking of.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. Then,
187 2 | and by no other whatever.~Cleinias. Quite true.~Athenian. Do
188 2 | representative and imitative?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Then,
189 2 | an imitation of the good.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And
190 2 | to quantity and quality.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And
191 2 | actors all agree in this?~Cleinias. They will.~Athenian. Surely
192 2 | intention is true or false.~Cleinias. Certainly not.~Athenian.
193 2 | the matter in another way.~Cleinias. How?~Athenian. There are
194 2 | likenesses of objects of sight?~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. And can
195 2 | which has been imitated?~Cleinias. Impossible.~Athenian. But
196 2 | respect deficient in beauty?~Cleinias. If this were not required,
197 2 | and melodies and rhythms?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Then
198 2 | poet has assigned to it?~Cleinias. Clearly they cannot.~Athenian.
199 2 | and wrong when unsuitable.~Cleinias. That is most certain.~Athenian.
200 2 | that the thing is right?~Cleinias. Impossible.~Athenian. Then
201 2 | will certainly be the case.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Every
202 2 | himself and all mankind.~Cleinias. Quite true.~Athenian. Were
203 2 | called reverence and shame?~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. And the
204 2 | leaders, or even greater.~Cleinias. Right.~Athenian. If, then,
205 2 | leaders of the drunken.~Cleinias. I think so too, if drinking
206 2 | misunderstanding what is said.~Cleinias. To what do you refer?~Athenian.
207 2 | of music and gymnastic.~Cleinias. To be sure, I remember.~
208 2 | we had to thank for them?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. The
209 2 | and strength in the body.~Cleinias. That, Stranger, is precisely
210 2 | consideration of the other half?~Cleinias. What is the other half,
211 2 | has to do with the voice.~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. The movement
212 2 | the movement of the voice.~Cleinias. Most true.~Athenian. And
213 2 | ventured to term music.~Cleinias. We were right.~Athenian.
214 2 | may be called gymnastic.~Cleinias. Exactly.~Athenian. Music,
215 2 | not? What would you like?~Cleinias. My good friend, when you
216 2 | proceed with gymnastic.~Cleinias. You quite understand me;
217 2 | familiar than with music.~Cleinias. There will not.~Athenian.
218 2 | united formed the choral art?~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And
219 2 | another to be discussed?~Cleinias. Exactly.~Athenian. I have
220 2 | will allow me to do so.~Cleinias. What more have you to say?~
221 2 | about wine, if you agree.~Cleinias. Excellent: we agree.~
222 3 | transitions to good or evil?~Cleinias. What do you mean?~Athenian.
223 3 | them during infinite ages.~Cleinias. How so?~Athenian. Why,
224 3 | men were citizens of them?~Cleinias. Hardly.~Athenian. But are
225 3 | be vast and incalculable?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And
226 3 | improving or declining?~Cleinias. To be sure.~Athenian. Let
227 3 | of forms of government.~Cleinias. Very good. You shall endeavour
228 3 | truth in ancient traditions?~Cleinias. What traditions?~Athenian.
229 3 | the survival of a remnant?~Cleinias. Every one is disposed to
230 3 | caused by the famous deluge.~Cleinias. What are we to observe
231 3 | on the tops of mountains.~Cleinias. Clearly.~Athenian. Such
232 3 | contrive against one another.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. Let
233 3 | destroyed at that time.~Cleinias. Very good.~Athenian. Would
234 3 | have utterly disappeared?~Cleinias. Why, yes, my friend; and
235 3 | Athenian. Have you forgotten, Cleinias, the name of a friend who
236 3 | is really of yesterday?~Cleinias. I suppose that you mean
237 3 | old Hesiod only preached.~Cleinias. Yes, according to our tradition.~
238 3 | shepherds who tended them?~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. And of
239 3 | any recollection at all?~Cleinias. None whatever.~Athenian.
240 3 | a great deal of virtue?~Cleinias. What do you mean?~Athenian.
241 3 | whether of virtue or of vice?~Cleinias. I understand your meaning,
242 3 | to be what the world is.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. Doubtless
243 3 | very long period of time.~Cleinias. A highly probable supposition.~
244 3 | heights into the plain.~Cleinias. Of course.~Athenian. The
245 3 | metallurgy had again revived.~Cleinias. There could not have been.~
246 3 | would this be attained?~Cleinias. Clearly, not for many generations.~
247 3 | the like would disappear.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Faction
248 3 | days, and for many reasons.~Cleinias. How would that be?~Athenian.
249 3 | we have described them.~Cleinias. That quite accords with
250 3 | been already explained.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. I
251 3 | who was their lawgiver.~Cleinias. And thus far what you have
252 3 | ancestors, as they are called.~Cleinias. Probably.~Athenian. But
253 3 | themselves about one another.~Cleinias. That seems to be a charming
254 3 | government sometimes arise.~Cleinias. We may.~Athenian. And were
255 3 | sovereignties is the most just?~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. After
256 3 | large and common habitation.~Cleinias. Yes; at least we may suppose
257 3 | which would probably happen.~Cleinias. What?~Athenian. When these
258 3 | their own peculiar laws.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And
259 3 | laws of others not so well.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Then now
260 3 | beginnings of legislation.~Cleinias. Exactly.~Athenian. The
261 3 | government they will live.~Cleinias. Yes, that would be the
262 3 | polities and cities concur.~Cleinias. What is that?~Athenian.
263 3 | Graces, they attain truth.~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. Then now
264 3 | design:—Shall we do so?~Cleinias. By all means.~Athenian.
265 3 | rivers descending from Ida.~Cleinias. Such is the tradition.~
266 3 | very high hills, either.~Cleinias. There must have been a
267 3 | would begin to be inhabited.~Cleinias. Doubtless.~Athenian. Those
268 3 | to be afraid of the sea.~Cleinias. Clearly.~Athenian. The
269 3 | years, and overthrew Troy.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. And during
270 3 | state happy, O Megillus and Cleinias, we may now begin again,
271 3 | course of the argument.~Cleinias. Pray go on, Stranger;—compliments
272 3 | disapproval.~Megillus. Excellent, Cleinias; let us do as you say.~Cleinias.
273 3 | Cleinias; let us do as you say.~Cleinias. By all means, if Heaven
274 3 | the utmost of his power.~Cleinias. That is evident.~Athenian.
275 3 | say; for my opinion is—~Cleinias. What?~Athenian. That the
276 3 | ignorance of handicraftsmen.~Cleinias. Yes, my friend, we understand
277 3 | saying, be laid down by us.~Cleinias. Let it be so laid down.~
278 3 | and subjects in states?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And
279 3 | rule over their offspring?~Cleinias. There is.~Athenian. Next
280 3 | rule and the younger obey?~Cleinias. To be sure.~Athenian. And,
281 3 | and their masters rule?~Cleinias. Of course.~Athenian. Fifthly,
282 3 | and the weaker be ruled?~Cleinias. That is a rule not to be
283 3 | not a rule of compulsion.~Cleinias. Most true.~Athenian. There
284 3 | affirm to be quite just.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. “Then
285 3 | the immoderate or worse.”~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And
286 3 | than when among peoples?~Cleinias. The probability is that
287 3 | dissonance and harsh discord.~Cleinias. Very likely.~Athenian.
288 3 | a power to be despised.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. There was
289 3 | was small credit to us, Cleinias, in defeating them; and
290 3 | and live miserably. These, Cleinias and Megillus, are the reproaches
291 3 | ought not to disturb us.~Cleinias. Let us resume the argument
292 3 | is not made up of both.~Cleinias. Impossible.~Athenian. Neither
293 3 | less. Shall I tell you why?~Cleinias. By all means, if it will
294 3 | communion of mind among them.~Cleinias. That certainly appears
295 3 | Shall I try to divine?~Cleinias. The enquiry, no doubt,
296 3 | order of his household.~Cleinias. What makes you say so?~
297 3 | how they brought them up.~Cleinias. A splendid education truly!~
298 3 | time to look after them.~Cleinias. What would you expect?~
299 3 | despised the folly of Cambyses.~Cleinias. So runs the tale, and such
300 3 | Darius and the seven chiefs.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Let us
301 3 | And I would wish you and Cleinias to consider whether my words
302 3 | life. And now, Megillus and Cleinias, how can we put to the proof
303 3 | the value of our words?~Cleinias. Stranger, I think that
304 3 | contemplation.~Athenian. Good news, Cleinias; if Megillus has no objection,
305 3 | my power to please you.~Cleinias. Thank you.~Megillus. And
306 3 | Megillus. And so will I.~Cleinias. Excellent; and now let
307 4 | whether maritime or inland.~Cleinias. I should imagine, Stranger,
308 4 | harbours on the seaboard?~Cleinias. Excellent harbours, Stranger;
309 4 | in need of importations?~Cleinias. Hardly in need of anything.~
310 4 | any neighbouring State?~Cleinias. None whatever, and that
311 4 | hill, and plain, and wood?~Cleinias. Like the rest of Crete
312 4 | is more rock than plain?~Cleinias. Exactly.~Athenian. Then
313 4 | the previous discussion.~Cleinias. I remember, and am of opinion
314 4 | timber for ship–building?~Cleinias. There is no fir of any
315 4 | also natural advantages.~Cleinias. Why so?~Athenian. Because
316 4 | in what is mischievous.~Cleinias. How does that bear upon
317 4 | cannot justly award honour?~Cleinias. It is hardly possible,
318 4 | which has been made already.~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. Then we
319 4 | and legislation of states.~Cleinias. The best by far.~Athenian.
320 4 | the present enterprise?~Cleinias. They will come from all
321 4 | legislation and colonization.~Cleinias. No doubt; but I should
322 4 | equally to all human things?~Cleinias. To what are you referring?~
323 4 | equal truth of all of them.~Cleinias. What is it?~Athenian. That
324 4 | s art. You would agree?~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. And does
325 4 | time appear on the scene?~Cleinias. Most true.~Athenian. In
326 4 | require to exercise his art?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And
327 4 | special prayer, would do so?~Cleinias. Of course.~Athenian. And
328 4 | legislator would do likewise?~Cleinias. I believe that he would.~
329 4 | Shall I give his answer?~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. He will
330 4 | to be any good in them.”~Cleinias. I suppose, Megillus, that
331 4 | temperance?~Athenian. Yes, Cleinias, temperance in the vulgar
332 4 | must understand my meaning.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Then
333 4 | polity than by a tyranny.~Cleinias. By what possible arguments,
334 4 | no difficulty in seeing, Cleinias, what is in accordance with
335 4 | with the order of nature?~Cleinias. You would assume, as you
336 4 | diminution of the number.~Cleinias. You mean to say, I suppose,
337 4 | easiest and most rapid.~Cleinias. How? I do not understand.~
338 4 | which is under a tyranny?~Cleinias. No, and I cannot say that
339 4 | which I am now speaking.~Cleinias. What do you mean?~Athenian.
340 4 | degrading those who disobey.~Cleinias. But how can we imagine
341 4 | rather all blessings follow.~Cleinias. Of what are you speaking?~
342 4 | granting our supposition.~Cleinias. How do you mean?~Athenian.
343 4 | suitable to your state.~Cleinias. Let us proceed without
344 4 | the State and the laws!~Cleinias. May he come!~Athenian.
345 4 | going to give the city?~Cleinias. Tell us what you mean a
346 4 | first, since I am the elder?~Cleinias. Perhaps you should.~Megillus.
347 4 | government the Spartan is.~Cleinias. I am in the same difficulty,
348 4 | who rules over wise men.~Cleinias. And who is this God?~Athenian.
349 4 | your question: shall I?~Cleinias. By all means.~Athenian.
350 4 | existing states is a copy.~Cleinias. It will be very necessary
351 4 | introduced the subject.~Cleinias. Most appropriately; and
352 4 | salvation is hopeless. And now, Cleinias, we have to consider whether
353 4 | accept this tale of mine.~Cleinias. Certainly we will.~Athenian.
354 4 | natural definition of justice.~Cleinias. How?~Athenian. Justice
355 4 | interest of the stronger.~Cleinias. Speak plainer.~Athenian.
356 4 | authority in any state?”~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. “Well,”
357 4 | principal object of their laws?”~Cleinias. How can they have any other?~
358 4 | who calls the laws just?”~Cleinias. Naturally.~Athenian. “This,
359 4 | in which justice exists.”~Cleinias. Certainly, if they are
360 4 | which we were referring.~Cleinias. Which do you mean?~Athenian.
361 4 | natural and justified it.~Cleinias. Yes; I remember.~Athenian.
362 4 | without number in states—~Cleinias. What thing?~Athenian. That
363 4 | which the Gods can confer.~Cleinias. Truly, Stranger, you see
364 4 | when he is old keenest.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And
365 4 | make our speech to them?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. “Friends,”
366 4 | think, or not do or think?~Cleinias. Every man ought to make
367 4 | can guarantee one thing.~Cleinias. What is that?~Athenian.
368 4 | legislator in all his laws.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. The
369 4 | before, it is then easy.~Cleinias. Yes; and he certainly speaks
370 4 | discourse has had upon me.~Cleinias. Proceed.~Athenian. Suppose
371 4 | do, you can surely tell.”~Cleinias. Of course he can.~Athenian. “
372 4 | the hurt of the state.”~Cleinias. That is true.~Athenian.
373 4 | on behalf of the poets?~Cleinias. What answer shall we make
374 4 | language that can become law.~Cleinias. Certainly not.~Athenian.
375 4 | are also styled doctors.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And
376 4 | two classes of doctors?~Cleinias. To be sure.~Athenian. And
377 4 | the ruder and inferior?~Cleinias. I should say, Stranger,
378 4 | single method in legislation?~Cleinias. Certainly I should.~Athenian.
379 4 | for states about births?~Cleinias. He will.~Athenian. In all
380 4 | connection of marriage?~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And,
381 4 | determined in every state?~Cleinias. Quite so.~Athenian. Then
382 4 | choose. But I think that Cleinias is the person to be consulted,
383 4 | going to use these laws.~Cleinias. Thank you, Megillus.~Athenian.
384 4 | regarded in our existing laws.~Cleinias. What is it?~Athenian. A
385 4 | the case already given.~Cleinias. The lawgiver, if he asks
386 4 | think that you are right, Cleinias, in affirming that all laws
387 4 | instance, of the lawgiver.~Cleinias. That I think is most true.
388 4 | subject into the light of day?~Cleinias. Exactly.~Athenian. After
389 4 | which follow next in order.~Cleinias. Very good.~
390 5 | will leave the choice to Cleinias now, or to any one else
391 5 | observe, O Megillus and Cleinias, that there is a difference
392 5 | accordingly. And this is what you, Cleinias, must do, and to matters
393 5 | colonize a new country.~Cleinias. Your words, Athenian Stranger,
394 6 | appointment of magistracies.~Cleinias. Very good.~Athenian. In
395 6 | about the election of them.~Cleinias. What have you got to say?~
396 6 | evil will accrue from them.~Cleinias. Of course.~Athenian. Then
397 6 | the choice of magistrates?~Cleinias. Impossible.~Athenian. The
398 6 | is such a hideous thing.~Cleinias. Excellent, Stranger.~Athenian.
399 6 | will be as good as my word.~Cleinias. Let us by all means do
400 6 | age will only permit us.~Cleinias. But God will be gracious.~
401 6 | consider further point.~Cleinias. What is it?~Athenian. Let
402 6 | creation this our city is.~Cleinias. What had you in your mind
403 6 | man need not be very wise, Cleinias, in order to see that no
404 6 | trained not being permanent.~Cleinias. A reasonable supposition.~
405 6 | difficulty; for I maintain, Cleinias, that the Cnosians, above
406 6 | are of less importance.~Cleinias. What method can we devise
407 6 | violence in order to make you.~Cleinias. But why, Stranger, do not
408 6 | our new city?~Athenian. O, Cleinias, Athens is proud, and Sparta
409 6 | number of votes. But who, Cleinias and Megillus, will order
410 6 | praised by any one enough.~Cleinias. That is very true.~Athenian.
411 6 | necessary and expedient.~Cleinias. What is it?~Athenian. I
412 6 | and temples, and the like?~Cleinias. To be sure there ought.~
413 6 | the work of legislation.~Cleinias. I like what you have said,
414 6 | pastime has gone off well.~Cleinias. You mean, I suppose, their
415 6 | agreed about a certain thing.~Cleinias. About what thing?~Athenian.
416 6 | brighter and more beautiful.~Cleinias. I know something of these
417 6 | will last but a short time?~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. And is
418 6 | which he has established?~Cleinias. Assuredly, that is the
419 6 | leave the work incomplete.~Cleinias. By all means.~Athenian.
420 6 | do at the present moment?~Cleinias. What have we to do?~Athenian.
421 6 | far as this is possible.~Cleinias. Certainly; if we can.~Athenian.
422 6 | rate, we must do our best.~Cleinias. Of course.~Athenian. We
423 6 | are to act. Megillus and Cleinias and I have often spoken
424 6 | and appropriate. For, as Cleinias says, every law should have
425 6 | have a suitable prelude.~Cleinias. You recollect at the right
426 6 | opposite.~Megillus. True.~Cleinias. Then what are we to do
427 6 | owners?~Athenian. Well, Cleinias, there can be no doubt that
428 6 | and freeman, and master.~Cleinias. That is obvious.~Athenian.
429 6 | them and for their masters.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Now that
430 6 | describe their dwellings.~Cleinias. Very good.~Athenian. The
431 6 | temples and walls. These, Cleinias, were matters which properly
432 6 | matters in a general outline.~Cleinias. Quite true.~Athenian. The
433 6 | the order of legislation.~Cleinias. By all means.~Athenian.
434 6 | marriages exist already, Cleinias, the mode of life during
435 6 | me to be right and true, Cleinias.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian.
436 6 | right and true, Cleinias.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. He
437 6 | the world, Megillus and Cleinias, as I should suppose, on
438 6 | tables arose among you.~Cleinias. Likely enough.~Athenian.
439 6 | impossible and useless feat.~Cleinias. What is the cause, Stranger,
440 6 | now waiting. For with you, Cleinias and Megillus, the common
441 6 | rather not, I will refrain.~Cleinias. There is nothing which
442 6 | view the subject of law.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Then let
443 6 | began an immense while ago.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Well,
444 6 | transformations of themselves?~Cleinias. No doubt.~Athenian. And
445 6 | other as they do still?~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Again,
446 6 | from all living things.~Cleinias. Such has been the constant
447 6 | is the drift of all this?~Cleinias. A very pertinent question,
448 6 | therefore I will endeavour, Cleinias, if I can, to draw the natural
449 6 | draw the natural inference.~Cleinias. Proceed.~Athenian. I see
450 6 | proper or suited to them.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. Let
451 6 | there may be need of them.~Cleinias. What do you bid us keep
452 6 | the excitement of love.~Cleinias. We shall be sure to remember,
453 6 | the terrors of the law.~Cleinias. What do you mean?~Athenian.
454 7 | clearness in what I am saying.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. Stranger.
455 7 | improvement of mind and body?~Cleinias. Undoubtedly.~Athenian.
456 7 | and straightest manner?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And
457 7 | which he attained at five.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Well, and
458 7 | endless evils in the body?~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. And the
459 7 | receives most nourishment?~Cleinias. But, Stranger, are we to
460 7 | of infants still unborn.~Cleinias. What do you mean, my good
461 7 | endeavour to explain to you.~Cleinias. By all means.~Athenian.
462 7 | heads more than enough.~Cleinias. What penalty?~Athenian.
463 7 | of the nurses to comply.~Cleinias. Then why was there any
464 7 | state well and be happy.~Cleinias. Likely enough.~Athenian.
465 7 | relating to their bodies.~Cleinias. By all means.~Athenian.
466 7 | the dance and of music.~Cleinias. Well, Stranger, and what
467 7 | The reason is obvious.~Cleinias. What?~Athenian. The affection
468 7 | favour of this treatment.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. But
469 7 | cowardice and not of courage.~Cleinias. No doubt.~Athenian. And,
470 7 | an exercise of courage.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. And we
471 7 | part of virtue in the soul.~Cleinias. Quite true.~Athenian. Further,
472 7 | cowardice on the other.~Cleinias. To be sure.~Athenian. Then
473 7 | character in the young.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. There
474 7 | undesirable associates.~Cleinias. But how must the state
475 7 | more than any other animal.~Cleinias. Quite true.~Athenian. Do
476 7 | to be passed ill or well.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Does not
477 7 | a good man ought to be?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Well,
478 7 | more gentle and cheerful?~Cleinias. To be sure, Stranger—more
479 7 | There I can no longer agree, Cleinias: you amaze me. To bring
480 7 | see whether I am right.~Cleinias. Proceed.~Athenian. The
481 7 | benevolence and kindness.~Cleinias. You need not, ask Megillus,
482 7 | answered?~Athenian. Very good, Cleinias; and now let us all three
483 7 | consider a further point.~Cleinias. What is it?~Athenian. That
484 7 | undermined. Reflecting upon this, Cleinias, you ought to bind together
485 7 | lengthening out our laws.~Cleinias. Very true: we are disposed
486 7 | universally misunderstood.~Cleinias. In what respect?~Athenian.
487 7 | freemen, O Megillus and Cleinias.~I have now completely described
488 7 | communicate your thoughts?~Cleinias. It is not easy, Stranger,
489 7 | let us proceed to speak.~Cleinias. By all means.~Athenian.
490 7 | confidence which makes me go on.~Cleinias. What have you to say, Stranger?~
491 7 | great I deem the evil to be?~Cleinias. You mean the evil of blaming
492 7 | states?~Athenian. Exactly.~Cleinias. If you are speaking of
493 7 | Athenian. I should expect so.~Cleinias. Proceed.~Athenian. Well,
494 7 | require the utmost prevision.~Cleinias. To be sure.~Athenian. And
495 7 | characters in men? What say you?~Cleinias. That is the only doctrine
496 7 | varieties of pleasures.~Cleinias. Most true.~Athenian. Can
497 7 | than that of the Egyptians?~Cleinias. What is their method?~Athenian.
498 7 | him by any one who likes.~Cleinias. Very good.~Athenian. In
499 7 | what is due to ourselves.~Cleinias. To what are you referring?~
500 7 | certain all in a moment.~Cleinias. Most true.~Athenian. Then
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