Dialogue

 1  Meno|    justice is virtue: ‘Would you say virtue or a virtue, for
 2  Meno|         persons he has plenty to say about virtue; in the presence
 3  Meno|      question, as mathematicians say, under an hypothesis. He
 4  Meno|          of the word; that is to say, no real teachers who will
 5  Meno|       thought in another way and say of abstract or general ideas,
 6  Meno|          laugh in your face, and say: ‘Stranger, you have far
 7  Meno|         my dear boy, but you may say further that I have never
 8  Meno|          at the time. And I dare say that he did know, and that
 9  Meno|   generous, and tell me what you say that virtue is; for I shall
10  Meno|    SOCRATES: And if I went on to say: That is what I desire to
11  Meno|         wish.~SOCRATES: When you say, Meno, that there is one
12  Meno|          to virtue, or would you say the same of health, and
13  Meno|         or woman?~MENO: I should say that health is the same,
14  Meno|         is in the man. I mean to say that strength, as strength,
15  Meno|       order a house?~MENO: I did say so.~SOCRATES: And can either
16  Meno|    remember what you and Gorgias say that virtue is.~MENO: Will
17  Meno|          all, I know not what to say, but that virtue is the
18  Meno|      virtue.~SOCRATES: Would you say ‘virtue,’ Meno, or ‘a virtue’?~
19  Meno|      SOCRATES: I mean as I might say about anything; that a round,
20  Meno|     asked before: Meno, he would say, what is figure? And if
21  Meno|         asking whether you would say that roundness is ‘figure’
22  Meno|   questioner rejoined, Would you say that whiteness is colour
23  Meno|       matter in my way, he would say: Ever and anon we are landed
24  Meno|       them by a common name, and say that they are all figures,
25  Meno|         thus, you do not mean to say that the round is round
26  Meno|       look rather astonished and say: Do you not understand that
27  Meno|     another form: Meno, he might say, what is that ‘simile in
28  Meno|      what figure is. What do you say to this answer?—Figure is
29  Meno|          But if a person were to say that he does not know what
30  Meno|      antagonistic sort, I should say to him: You have my answer,
31  Meno|  dialectician’s vein; that is to say, I should not only speak
32  Meno|        he and you and Empedocles say that there are certain effluences
33  Meno|         plural, as the facetious say of those who break a thing,
34  Meno|          so the poet says, and I say too—~‘Virtue is the desire
35  Meno|         and do those who, as you say, desire evils, and think
36  Meno|        ill-fated?~MENO: I should say not, Socrates.~SOCRATES:
37  Meno| attaining good?~MENO: Yes, I did say so.~SOCRATES: But if this
38  Meno|          us see whether what you say is true from another point
39  Meno|        mock me.~MENO: Why do you say that, Socrates?~SOCRATES:
40  Meno|        for otherwise, I can only say, that every action done
41  Meno|       virtue?~MENO: No; I do not say that he can.~SOCRATES: Do
42  Meno|        this moment I cannot even say what virtue is. And I think
43  Meno|        that—~MENO: What did they say?~SOCRATES: They spoke of
44  Meno|          were inspired. And they say—mark, now, and see whether
45  Meno|        their words are true—they say that the soul of man is
46  Meno|          her eliciting or as men say learning, out of a single
47  Meno|        prove to me that what you say is true, I wish that you
48  Meno|          size of this—that is to say of eight feet; and I want
49  Meno|        to know whether you still say that a double square comes
50  Meno|          a figure: Would you not say that this is the figure
51  Meno|         good; I like to hear you say what you think. And now
52  Meno|  Socrates.~SOCRATES: What do you say of him, Meno? Were not all
53  Meno|        one at last?~MENO: I dare say.~SOCRATES: Without any one
54  Meno|       know about him, if, as you say, he was born and bred in
55  Meno|       order.~SOCRATES: Do we not say that virtue is a good?—This
56  Meno|        profits—and virtue, as we say, is profitable?~MENO: Certainly.~
57  Meno|  knowledge: for consider now and say whether virtue, and not
58  Meno|       one more question. When we say that we should be right
59  Meno|         men good, do you mean to say that these are the only
60  Meno|      still living. Now, when you say that they deceived and corrupted
61  Meno|     utterly at fault, and I dare say that you are right. And
62  Meno|   discussing. Now, do we mean to say that the good men of our
63  Meno|      SOCRATES: Then no one could say that his son showed any
64  Meno|          one, old or young, ever say in your hearing that Cleophantus,
65  Meno|    certainly never heard any one say so.~SOCRATES: And if virtue
66  Meno|       thing?~MENO: Where does he say so?~SOCRATES: In these elegiac
67  Meno|  sometimes the opposite? Can you say that they are teachers in
68  Meno|        confusion?~MENO: I should say, certainly not.~SOCRATES:
69  Meno|      other to improve us. This I say, because I observe that
70  Meno|        that?~SOCRATES: I mean to say that they are not very valuable
71  Meno|       diviners and also prophets say many things truly, but they
72  Meno|          they know not what they say.~MENO: So I believe.~SOCRATES:
73  Meno|          in which condition they say many grand things, not knowing
74  Meno|    things, not knowing what they say.~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: And
75  Meno|          they praise a good man, say ‘that he is a divine man.’~