Dialogue

  1  Meno|         whether virtue can be taught.’ Socrates replies that he does not
  2  Meno|                he was at Athens.’ Yes, Socrates had met him, but he has
  3  Meno|              may be easily described.’~Socrates reminds Meno that this is
  4  Meno|                interrogation, in which Socrates explains to him the nature
  5  Meno|               of a ‘simile in multis,’ Socrates himself defines figure as ‘
  6  Meno|              and not a mere disputant, Socrates is willing to furnish him
  7  Meno|        raillery follows; and at length Socrates is induced to reply, ‘that
  8  Meno|                Gorgias and Empedocles. Socrates is of opinion that the more
  9  Meno|               that the conversation of Socrates has the effect of a torpedo’
 10  Meno|             virtue; in the presence of Socrates, his thoughts desert him.
 11  Meno|               his thoughts desert him. Socrates replies that he is only
 12  Meno|          sophistical puzzle, which, as Socrates remarks, saves a great deal
 13  Meno|              latent under it, to which Socrates will endeavour to find a
 14  Meno|                in the skilful hands of Socrates, is made to acknowledge
 15  Meno|                 Compare Phaedo.)~After Socrates has given this specimen
 16  Meno|             the Protagoras concluded.)~Socrates has no difficulty in showing
 17  Meno|             then, shall Meno go?’ asks Socrates. To any Athenian gentleman—
 18  Meno|               statesmen of past times. Socrates replies here, as elsewhere (
 19  Meno|              allusions to the trial of Socrates.~Socrates returns to the
 20  Meno|              to the trial of Socrates.~Socrates returns to the consideration
 21  Meno|          instructed Meno, nor Prodicus Socrates. This is the nature of right
 22  Meno|               times. But in the age of Socrates it was only by an effort
 23  Meno|             you do not know;’ to which Socrates replies by his theory of
 24  Meno|           speaking of the daemonium of Socrates. He recognizes the lower
 25  Meno|              words is transparent. And Socrates himself appears to be conscious
 26  Meno|       temperance, and the like. Nor is Socrates positive of anything but
 27  Meno|            equally willing to learn of Socrates and of the Sophists. He
 28  Meno|            sophisticated youth on whom Socrates tries his cross-examining
 29  Meno|           experiment. He is treated by Socrates in a half-playful manner
 30  Meno|               new opinions, whether of Socrates or the Sophists, as fatal
 31  Meno|                if he be the accuser of Socrates, as is apparently indicated
 32  Meno|         showing that the accusation of Socrates was not to be attributed
 33  Meno|            taught.’ In the Euthydemus, Socrates himself offered an example
 34  Meno|            from the general notions of Socrates, who asked simply, ‘what
 35  Meno|            written before the death of Socrates; the Meno, which appears
 36  Meno|           character of the Dialogue is Socrates; but to the ‘general definitions’
 37  Meno|                general definitions’ of Socrates is added the Platonic doctrine
 38  Meno|           still running in the mind of Socrates. Unlike the later Platonic
 39  Meno|              to the trial and death of Socrates.~...~ON THE IDEAS OF PLATO.~
 40  Meno|               Meno’s slaves, from whom Socrates elicits truths of arithmetic
 41  Meno|              Meno and the Phaedo, that Socrates expresses himself with diffidence.
 42  Meno|            Heracleiteans, or even from Socrates. In the Philebus, probably
 43  Meno|              an infinite substance. As Socrates said that virtue is knowledge,
 44  Meno|         PERSONS OF THE DIALOGUE: Meno, Socrates, A Slave of Meno (Boy),
 45  Meno|                 MENO: Can you tell me, Socrates, whether virtue is acquired
 46  Meno|          nature, or in what other way?~SOCRATES: O Meno, there was a time
 47  Meno|                But are you in earnest, Socrates, in saying that you do not
 48  Meno|             report of you to Thessaly?~SOCRATES: Not only that, my dear
 49  Meno|         Gorgias when he was at Athens?~SOCRATES: Yes, I have.~MENO: And
 50  Meno|                not think that he knew?~SOCRATES: I have not a good memory,
 51  Meno|                alike.~MENO: Very true.~SOCRATES: Then as he is not here,
 52  Meno|           There will be no difficulty, Socrates, in answering your question.
 53  Meno|              same may be said of vice, Socrates (Compare Arist. Pol.).~SOCRATES:
 54  Meno|        Socrates (Compare Arist. Pol.).~SOCRATES: How fortunate I am, Meno!
 55  Meno|             from one another, as bees.~SOCRATES: And if I went on to say:
 56  Meno|                answer?~MENO: I should.~SOCRATES: And so of the virtues,
 57  Meno|              question as I could wish.~SOCRATES: When you say, Meno, that
 58  Meno|                 both in man and woman.~SOCRATES: And is not this true of
 59  Meno|         difference?~MENO: I think not.~SOCRATES: And will not virtue, as
 60  Meno|                 I cannot help feeling, Socrates, that this case is different
 61  Meno|             different from the others.~SOCRATES: But why? Were you not saying
 62  Meno|             house?~MENO: I did say so.~SOCRATES: And can either house or
 63  Meno|          justice?~MENO: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: Then they who order a state
 64  Meno|              justice?~MENO: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Then both men and women,
 65  Meno|               and justice?~MENO: True.~SOCRATES: And can either a young
 66  Meno|             unjust?~MENO: They cannot.~SOCRATES: They must be temperate
 67  Meno|         temperate and just?~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then all men are good in
 68  Meno|                 Such is the inference.~SOCRATES: And they surely would not
 69  Meno|            same?~MENO: They would not.~SOCRATES: Then now that the sameness
 70  Meno|                definition of them all?~SOCRATES: That is what I am seeking.~
 71  Meno|            power of governing mankind.~SOCRATES: And does this definition
 72  Meno|              slave?~MENO: I think not, Socrates.~SOCRATES: No, indeed; there
 73  Meno|                 I think not, Socrates.~SOCRATES: No, indeed; there would
 74  Meno|              not unjustly’?~MENO: Yes, Socrates; I agree there; for justice
 75  Meno|                 for justice is virtue.~SOCRATES: Would you say ‘virtue,’
 76  Meno|                MENO: What do you mean?~SOCRATES: I mean as I might say about
 77  Meno|            virtues as well as justice.~SOCRATES: What are they? tell me
 78  Meno|             and there are many others.~SOCRATES: Yes, Meno; and again we
 79  Meno|           through them all.~MENO: Why, Socrates, even now I am not able
 80  Meno|             virtue as of other things.~SOCRATES: No wonder; but I will try
 81  Meno|              figure.’~MENO: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And for this reason—that
 82  Meno|              other figures?~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: And if he proceeded to
 83  Meno|              told him.~MENO: I should.~SOCRATES: And if he similarly asked
 84  Meno|               as well.~MENO: I should.~SOCRATES: And if he had said, Tell
 85  Meno|               as whiteness.~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: And suppose that he were
 86  Meno|                of speaking?~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: And in speaking thus, you
 87  Meno|            round?~MENO: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: You only assert that the
 88  Meno|                round?~MENO: Very true.~SOCRATES: To what then do we give
 89  Meno|                that you should answer, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Shall I indulge
 90  Meno|               should answer, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Shall I indulge you?~MENO:
 91  Meno|               you?~MENO: By all means.~SOCRATES: And then you will tell
 92  Meno|            about virtue?~MENO: I will.~SOCRATES: Then I must do my best,
 93  Meno|               be won.~MENO: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Well, I will try and explain
 94  Meno|       definition of virtue?~MENO: But, Socrates, it is such a simple answer.~
 95  Meno|               is such a simple answer.~SOCRATES: Why simple?~MENO: Because,
 96  Meno|                always follows colour.~(SOCRATES: Granted.)~MENO: But if
 97  Meno|              would you have given him?~SOCRATES: I should have told him
 98  Meno|               understand your meaning.~SOCRATES: And you would speak of
 99  Meno|                in geometry.~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: Well then, you are now
100  Meno|               of solid.~MENO: And now, Socrates, what is colour?~SOCRATES:
101  Meno|              Socrates, what is colour?~SOCRATES: You are outrageous, Meno,
102  Meno|                I ask, I will tell you, Socrates.~SOCRATES: A man who was
103  Meno|               will tell you, Socrates.~SOCRATES: A man who was blindfolded
104  Meno|             MENO: Why do you think so?~SOCRATES: Why, because you always
105  Meno|               answer.~MENO: Please do.~SOCRATES: Would you like me to answer
106  Meno|            should like nothing better.~SOCRATES: Do not he and you and Empedocles
107  Meno|            existence?~MENO: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And passages into which
108  Meno|        effluences pass?~MENO: Exactly.~SOCRATES: And some of the effluences
109  Meno|              or too large?~MENO: True.~SOCRATES: And there is such a thing
110  Meno|             thing as sight?~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: And now, as Pindar says, ‘
111  Meno|         palpable to sense.~MENO: That, Socrates, appears to me to be an
112  Meno|                be an admirable answer.~SOCRATES: Why, yes, because it happens
113  Meno|           phenomena.~MENO: Quite true.~SOCRATES: The answer, Meno, was in
114  Meno|               about figure.~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: And yet, O son of Alexidemus,
115  Meno|                 MENO: But I will stay, Socrates, if you will give me many
116  Meno|             give me many such answers.~SOCRATES: Well then, for my own sake
117  Meno|              pattern.~MENO: Well then, Socrates, virtue, as I take it, is
118  Meno|              power of attaining them.’~SOCRATES: And does he who desires
119  Meno|             the good?~MENO: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Then are there some who
120  Meno|               good?~MENO: I think not.~SOCRATES: There are some who desire
121  Meno|                desire evil?~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: Do you mean that they think
122  Meno|             them?~MENO: Both, I think.~SOCRATES: And do you really imagine,
123  Meno| notwithstanding?~MENO: Certainly I do.~SOCRATES: And desire is of possession?~
124  Meno|              MENO: Yes, of possession.~SOCRATES: And does he think that
125  Meno|                they will do them harm.~SOCRATES: And, in your opinion, do
126  Meno|            evils?~MENO: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: Is it not obvious that
127  Meno|               MENO: Yes, in that case.~SOCRATES: Well, and do those who,
128  Meno|               MENO: They must know it.~SOCRATES: And must they not suppose
129  Meno|               How can it be otherwise?~SOCRATES: But are not the miserable
130  Meno|          ill-fated?~MENO: Yes, indeed.~SOCRATES: And does any one desire
131  Meno|                MENO: I should say not, Socrates.~SOCRATES: But if there
132  Meno|              should say not, Socrates.~SOCRATES: But if there is no one
133  Meno|               appears to be the truth, Socrates, and I admit that nobody
134  Meno|              that nobody desires evil.~SOCRATES: And yet, were you not saying
135  Meno|               MENO: Yes, I did say so.~SOCRATES: But if this be affirmed,
136  Meno|              that respect?~MENO: True.~SOCRATES: And if one man is not better
137  Meno|           attaining it?~MENO: Exactly.~SOCRATES: Then, according to your
138  Meno|              MENO: I entirely approve, Socrates, of the manner in which
139  Meno|              you now view this matter.~SOCRATES: Then let us see whether
140  Meno|            attaining goods?~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: And the goods which you
141  Meno|              should include all those.~SOCRATES: Then, according to Meno,
142  Meno|              virtue?~MENO: Not virtue, Socrates, but vice.~SOCRATES: Then
143  Meno|            virtue, Socrates, but vice.~SOCRATES: Then justice or temperance
144  Meno|               be virtue without these?~SOCRATES: And the non-acquisition
145  Meno|            equally virtue?~MENO: True.~SOCRATES: Then the acquisition of
146  Meno|             otherwise, in my judgment.~SOCRATES: And were we not saying
147  Meno|             part of virtue?~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: And so, Meno, this is the
148  Meno|             MENO: Why do you say that, Socrates?~SOCRATES: Why, because
149  Meno|                you say that, Socrates?~SOCRATES: Why, because I asked you
150  Meno|             part of virtue.~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then it follows from your
151  Meno|            virtue.~MENO: What of that?~SOCRATES: What of that! Why, did
152  Meno|                do not say that he can.~SOCRATES: Do you remember how, in
153  Meno|              or unadmitted?~MENO: Yes, Socrates; and we were quite right
154  Meno|               quite right in doing so.~SOCRATES: But then, my friend, do
155  Meno|                I believe that you are.~SOCRATES: Then begin again, and answer
156  Meno|          definition of virtue?~MENO: O Socrates, I used to be told, before
157  Meno|             into prison as a magician.~SOCRATES: You are a rogue, Meno,
158  Meno|                MENO: What do you mean, Socrates?~SOCRATES: I can tell why
159  Meno|            What do you mean, Socrates?~SOCRATES: I can tell why you made
160  Meno|            simile about me.~MENO: Why?~SOCRATES: In order that I might make
161  Meno|              And how will you enquire, Socrates, into that which you do
162  Meno|                which you did not know?~SOCRATES: I know, Meno, what you
163  Meno|              Post. Anal.).~MENO: Well, Socrates, and is not the argument
164  Meno|                not the argument sound?~SOCRATES: I think not.~MENO: Why
165  Meno|              think not.~MENO: Why not?~SOCRATES: I will tell you why: I
166  Meno|               MENO: What did they say?~SOCRATES: They spoke of a glorious
167  Meno|             was it? and who were they?~SOCRATES: Some of them were priests
168  Meno|           nature of virtue.~MENO: Yes, Socrates; but what do you mean by
169  Meno|              you teach me how this is?~SOCRATES: I told you, Meno, just
170  Meno|           contradiction.~MENO: Indeed, Socrates, I protest that I had no
171  Meno|                 I wish that you would.~SOCRATES: It will be no easy matter,
172  Meno|           Certainly. Come hither, boy.~SOCRATES: He is Greek, and speaks
173  Meno|              he was born in the house.~SOCRATES: Attend now to the questions
174  Meno|               remembers.~MENO: I will.~SOCRATES: Tell me, boy, do you know
175  Meno|                is a square?~BOY: I do.~SOCRATES: And you know that a square
176  Meno|           lines equal?~BOY: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And these lines which I
177  Meno|              are also equal?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: A square may be of any
178  Meno|              any size?~BOY: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And if one side of the
179  Meno|             feet taken once?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: But since this side is
180  Meno|              two feet?~BOY: There are.~SOCRATES: Then the square is of twice
181  Meno|              twice two feet?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: And how many are twice
182  Meno|                and tell me.~BOY: Four, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And might there
183  Meno|               me.~BOY: Four, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And might there not be
184  Meno|             the lines equal?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: And of how many feet will
185  Meno|                be?~BOY: Of eight feet.~SOCRATES: And now try and tell me
186  Meno|            will that be?~BOY: Clearly, Socrates, it will be double.~SOCRATES:
187  Meno|           Socrates, it will be double.~SOCRATES: Do you observe, Meno, that
188  Meno|                does he not?~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: And does he really know?~
189  Meno|             know?~MENO: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: He only guesses that because
190  Meno|            line is double.~MENO: True.~SOCRATES: Observe him while he recalls
191  Meno|            from double line?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: But does not this line
192  Meno|             line here?~BOY: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And four such lines will
193  Meno|       containing eight feet?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: Let us describe such a
194  Meno|               of eight feet?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: And are there not these
195  Meno|               of four feet?~BOY: True.~SOCRATES: And is not that four times
196  Meno|            times four?~BOY: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And four times is not double?~
197  Meno|               double?~BOY: No, indeed.~SOCRATES: But how much?~BOY: Four
198  Meno|               BOY: Four times as much.~SOCRATES: Therefore the double line,
199  Meno|              times as much.~BOY: True.~SOCRATES: Four times four are sixteen—
200  Meno|                are they not?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: What line would give you
201  Meno|            feet;—do you see?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: And the space of four feet
202  Meno|              this half line?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: Good; and is not a space
203  Meno|             the other?~BOY: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Such a space, then, will
204  Meno|             one?~BOY: Yes; I think so.~SOCRATES: Very good; I like to hear
205  Meno|                that of four?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then the line which forms
206  Meno|              four feet?~BOY: It ought.~SOCRATES: Try and see if you can
207  Meno|              will be.~BOY: Three feet.~SOCRATES: Then if we add a half to
208  Meno|             which you speak?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: But if there are three
209  Meno|            feet?~BOY: That is evident.~SOCRATES: And how much are three
210  Meno|           times three feet?~BOY: Nine.~SOCRATES: And how much is the double
211  Meno|            double of four?~BOY: Eight.~SOCRATES: Then the figure of eight
212  Meno|                line of three?~BOY: No.~SOCRATES: But from what line?—tell
213  Meno|              me the line.~BOY: Indeed, Socrates, I do not know.~SOCRATES:
214  Meno|               Socrates, I do not know.~SOCRATES: Do you see, Meno, what
215  Meno|             that he knows.~MENO: True.~SOCRATES: Is he not better off in
216  Meno|              MENO: I think that he is.~SOCRATES: If we have made him doubt,
217  Meno|               harm?~MENO: I think not.~SOCRATES: We have certainly, as would
218  Meno|               double side.~MENO: True.~SOCRATES: But do you suppose that
219  Meno|               know?~MENO: I think not, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Then he was the
220  Meno|                 I think not, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Then he was the better
221  Meno|               touch?~MENO: I think so.~SOCRATES: Mark now the farther development.
222  Meno|                I have drawn?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: And now I add another square
223  Meno|              the former one?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: And a third, which is equal
224  Meno|              either of them?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: Suppose that we fill up
225  Meno|                corner?~BOY: Very good.~SOCRATES: Here, then, there are four
226  Meno|                equal spaces?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: And how many times larger
227  Meno|                other?~BOY: Four times.~SOCRATES: But it ought to have been
228  Meno|              will remember.~BOY: True.~SOCRATES: And does not this line,
229  Meno|                these spaces?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: And are there not here
230  Meno|            this space?~BOY: There are.~SOCRATES: Look and see how much this
231  Meno|              BOY: I do not understand.~SOCRATES: Has not each interior line
232  Meno|             the four spaces?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: And how many spaces are
233  Meno|               this section?~BOY: Four.~SOCRATES: And how many in this?~BOY:
234  Meno|                many in this?~BOY: Two.~SOCRATES: And four is how many times
235  Meno|            many times two?~BOY: Twice.~SOCRATES: And this space is of how
236  Meno|              feet?~BOY: Of eight feet.~SOCRATES: And from what line do you
237  Meno|                figure?~BOY: From this.~SOCRATES: That is, from the line
238  Meno|                of four feet?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: And that is the line which
239  Meno|              diagonal?~BOY: Certainly, Socrates.~SOCRATES: What do you say
240  Meno|              BOY: Certainly, Socrates.~SOCRATES: What do you say of him,
241  Meno|                 they were all his own.~SOCRATES: And yet, as we were just
242  Meno|              did not know?~MENO: True.~SOCRATES: But still he had in him
243  Meno|             his—had he not?~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then he who does not know
244  Meno|                not know?~MENO: He has.~SOCRATES: And at present these notions
245  Meno|                last?~MENO: I dare say.~SOCRATES: Without any one teaching
246  Meno|            asked questions?~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: And this spontaneous recovery
247  Meno|              recollection?~MENO: True.~SOCRATES: And this knowledge which
248  Meno|           always possessed?~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: But if he always possessed
249  Meno|                one ever did teach him.~SOCRATES: And yet he has the knowledge?~
250  Meno|             knowledge?~MENO: The fact, Socrates, is undeniable.~SOCRATES:
251  Meno|               Socrates, is undeniable.~SOCRATES: But if he did not acquire
252  Meno|                 MENO: Clearly he must.~SOCRATES: Which must have been the
253  Meno|              was not a man?~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: And if there have been
254  Meno|                a man?~MENO: Obviously.~SOCRATES: And if the truth of all
255  Meno|              like what you are saying.~SOCRATES: And I, Meno, like what
256  Meno|              power.~MENO: There again, Socrates, your words seem to me excellent.~
257  Meno|            words seem to me excellent.~SOCRATES: Then, as we are agreed
258  Meno|            virtue?~MENO: By all means, Socrates. And yet I would much rather
259  Meno|              to men in some other way?~SOCRATES: Had I the command of you
260  Meno|              is taught?~MENO: I agree.~SOCRATES: Then if virtue is knowledge,
261  Meno|               taught?~MENO: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Then now we have made a
262  Meno|             not, not?~MENO: Certainly.~SOCRATES: The next question is, whether
263  Meno|             which comes next in order.~SOCRATES: Do we not say that virtue
264  Meno|                aside.~MENO: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Now, if there be any sort
265  Meno|              is knowledge?~MENO: True.~SOCRATES: And virtue makes us good?~
266  Meno|              makes us good?~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: And if we are good, then
267  Meno|             are profitable?~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then virtue is profitable?~
268  Meno|            That is the only inference.~SOCRATES: Then now let us see what
269  Meno|                profitable?~MENO: True.~SOCRATES: And yet these things may
270  Meno|               not think so?~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: And what is the guiding
271  Meno|         rightly used?~MENO: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Next, let us consider the
272  Meno|                the like?~MENO: Surely.~SOCRATES: And such of these as are
273  Meno|               is profited?~MENO: True.~SOCRATES: And the same may be said
274  Meno|              hurtful?~MENO: Very true.~SOCRATES: And in general, all that
275  Meno|               That appears to be true.~SOCRATES: If then virtue is a quality
276  Meno|         prudence?~MENO: I quite agree.~SOCRATES: And the other goods, such
277  Meno|           harmed by folly?~MENO: True.~SOCRATES: And the wise soul guides
278  Meno|               soul wrongly.~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: And is not this universally
279  Meno|           profitable?~MENO: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And thus we arrive at the
280  Meno|              that what you are saying, Socrates, is very true.~SOCRATES:
281  Meno|                Socrates, is very true.~SOCRATES: But if this is true, then
282  Meno|               good?~MENO: I think not.~SOCRATES: If they had been, there
283  Meno|               to the state?~MENO: Yes, Socrates, that would have been the
284  Meno|               have been the right way.~SOCRATES: But if the good are not
285  Meno|               be no other alternative, Socrates. On the supposition that
286  Meno|           doubt that virtue is taught.~SOCRATES: Yes, indeed; but what if
287  Meno|                now that we were right.~SOCRATES: Yes, Meno; but a principle
288  Meno|              that knowledge is virtue?~SOCRATES: I will try and tell you
289  Meno|               disciples?~MENO: Surely.~SOCRATES: And conversely, may not
290  Meno|             are no teachers of virtue?~SOCRATES: I have certainly often
291  Meno|         physicians?~ANYTUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Or if we wanted him to
292  Meno|             the cobblers?~ANYTUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And so forth?~ANYTUS: Yes.~
293  Meno|             And so forth?~ANYTUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: Let me trouble you with
294  Meno|              sending him?~ANYTUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And might not the same
295  Meno|            Zeus, and of ignorance too.~SOCRATES: Very good. And now you
296  Meno|              ANYTUS: Whom do you mean, Socrates?~SOCRATES: You surely know,
297  Meno|            Whom do you mean, Socrates?~SOCRATES: You surely know, do you
298  Meno|         Sophists?~ANYTUS: By Heracles, Socrates, forbear! I only hope that
299  Meno|              who have to do with them.~SOCRATES: What, Anytus? Of all the
300  Meno|                Out of their minds! No, Socrates; the young men who gave
301  Meno|            citizen and stranger alike.~SOCRATES: Has any of the Sophists
302  Meno|              anything to do with them.~SOCRATES: Then you are entirely unacquainted
303  Meno|              no wish to be acquainted.~SOCRATES: Then, my dear friend, how
304  Meno|           acquainted with them or not.~SOCRATES: You must be a diviner,
305  Meno|             you not tell him yourself?~SOCRATES: I have told him whom I
306  Meno|              to him than the Sophists.~SOCRATES: And did those gentlemen
307  Meno|            many good men in this city?~SOCRATES: Yes, certainly, Anytus;
308  Meno|              Certainly; no man better.~SOCRATES: And must not he then have
309  Meno|                 if he wanted to be so.~SOCRATES: But would he not have wanted?
310  Meno|                of him?~ANYTUS: I have.~SOCRATES: Then no one could say that
311  Meno|               ANYTUS: Very likely not.~SOCRATES: But did any one, old or
312  Meno|            never heard any one say so.~SOCRATES: And if virtue could have
313  Meno|           Indeed, indeed, I think not.~SOCRATES: Here was a teacher of virtue
314  Meno|           ANYTUS: To be sure I should.~SOCRATES: And did not he train his
315  Meno|            Xanthippus.~ANYTUS: I know.~SOCRATES: And you know, also, that
316  Meno|          ANYTUS: I have heard of them.~SOCRATES: Now, can there be a doubt
317  Meno|           which can be taught?~ANYTUS: Socrates, I think that you are too
318  Meno|               I believe that you know.~SOCRATES: O Meno, think that Anytus
319  Meno|             MENO: Certainly there are.~SOCRATES: And are they willing to
320  Meno|               taught?~MENO: No indeed, Socrates, they are anything but agreed;
321  Meno|                then again the reverse.~SOCRATES: Can we call those teachers
322  Meno|           vocation?~MENO: I think not, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And what do you
323  Meno|                 I think not, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And what do you think of
324  Meno|          virtue?~MENO: I often wonder, Socrates, that Gorgias is never heard
325  Meno|             should be taught to speak.~SOCRATES: Then do you not think that
326  Meno|               MENO: I cannot tell you, Socrates; like the rest of the world,
327  Meno|            teachers and sometimes not.~SOCRATES: And are you aware that
328  Meno|            MENO: Where does he say so?~SOCRATES: In these elegiac verses (
329  Meno|              be taught?~MENO: Clearly.~SOCRATES: But in some other verses
330  Meno|              the other.~MENO: Clearly.~SOCRATES: And is there anything else
331  Meno|             should say, certainly not.~SOCRATES: But if neither the Sophists
332  Meno|              other teachers?~MENO: No.~SOCRATES: And if there are no teachers,
333  Meno|               disciples?~MENO: Agreed.~SOCRATES: And we have admitted that
334  Meno|              disciples?~MENO: We have.~SOCRATES: And there are no teachers
335  Meno|         anywhere?~MENO: There are not.~SOCRATES: And if there are no teachers,
336  Meno|                That, I think, is true.~SOCRATES: Then virtue cannot be taught?~
337  Meno|            view. But I cannot believe, Socrates, that there are no good
338  Meno|              they come into existence?~SOCRATES: I am afraid, Meno, that
339  Meno|                 MENO: How do you mean, Socrates?~SOCRATES: I mean that good
340  Meno|             How do you mean, Socrates?~SOCRATES: I mean that good men are
341  Meno|              It must be so.~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: And in supposing that they
342  Meno|            were also right?~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: But when we said that a
343  Meno|              mean by the word ‘right’?~SOCRATES: I will explain. If a man
344  Meno|                guide?~MENO: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And a person who had a
345  Meno|               he not?~MENO: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And while he has true opinion
346  Meno|              the truth?~MENO: Exactly.~SOCRATES: Then true opinion is as
347  Meno|             right opinion.~MENO: True.~SOCRATES: Then right opinion is not
348  Meno|       knowledge?~MENO: The difference, Socrates, is only that he who has
349  Meno|              right, and sometimes not.~SOCRATES: What do you mean? Can he
350  Meno|               argument, and therefore, Socrates, I wonder that knowledge
351  Meno|               they should ever differ.~SOCRATES: And shall I explain this
352  Meno|              to you?~MENO: Do tell me.~SOCRATES: You would not wonder if
353  Meno|               to do with the question?~SOCRATES: Because they require to
354  Meno|              MENO: Well, what of that?~SOCRATES: I mean to say that they
355  Meno|             MENO: What you are saying, Socrates, seems to be very like the
356  Meno|                be very like the truth.~SOCRATES: I too speak rather in ignorance;
357  Meno|                one of them.~MENO: Yes, Socrates; and you are quite right
358  Meno|              quite right in saying so.~SOCRATES: And am I not also right
359  Meno|          knowledge?~MENO: There again, Socrates, I think you are right.~
360  Meno|                 I think you are right.~SOCRATES: Then right opinion is not
361  Meno|             has knowledge?~MENO: True.~SOCRATES: And surely the good man
362  Meno|               to be useful?~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: Seeing then that men become
363  Meno|               by nature?~MENO: Not I.)~SOCRATES: Then if they are not given
364  Meno|             good?~MENO: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: And nature being excluded,
365  Meno|                by teaching?~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: If virtue was wisdom (or
366  Meno|              it was taught?~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: And if it was taught it
367  Meno|               wisdom?~MENO: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And if there were teachers,
368  Meno|             teachers, not?~MENO: True.~SOCRATES: But surely we acknowledged
369  Meno|         teachers of virtue?~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then we acknowledged that
370  Meno|               wisdom?~MENO: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And yet we admitted that
371  Meno|              it was a good?~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: And the right guide is
372  Meno|             and good?~MENO: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And the only right guides
373  Meno|       knowledge.~MENO: I think so too.~SOCRATES: But if virtue is not taught,
374  Meno|          knowledge.~MENO: Clearly not.~SOCRATES: Then of two good and useful
375  Meno|               life.~MENO: I think not.~SOCRATES: And therefore not by any
376  Meno|                 That is probably true, Socrates.~SOCRATES: But if not by
377  Meno|               probably true, Socrates.~SOCRATES: But if not by knowledge,
378  Meno|               say.~MENO: So I believe.~SOCRATES: And may we not, Meno, truly
379  Meno|             and word?~MENO: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Then we shall also be right
380  Meno|              what they say.~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: And the women too, Meno,
381  Meno|               man.’~MENO: And I think, Socrates, that they are right; although
382  Meno|              take offence at the word.~SOCRATES: I do not care; as for Anytus,
383  Meno|               MENO: That is excellent, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Then, Meno, the
384  Meno|                is excellent, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Then, Meno, the conclusion