Dialogue

  1 Phileb|         follows, that pleasure and pain naturally have their seat
  2 Phileb|      pleasures, or of pleasure and pain, are a further source of
  3 Phileb|          those in which there is a pain of the body and pleasure
  4 Phileb|          in which the pleasure and pain are both mental. Of unmixed
  5 Phileb|            such coexistence of the pain of thirst with the pleasures
  6 Phileb|         cases, are unattended with pain. Few philosophers will deny
  7 Phileb|            case of a man suffering pain from hunger or thirst, partly
  8 Phileb|      pleasure to be the absence of pain. They are also described
  9 Phileb|  inseparable from some pleasure or pain, which accompanies the acquisition
 10 Phileb|   simultaneousness of pleasure and pain is common to both of them (
 11 Phileb|      retorts Socrates, and also to pain the character of absolute
 12 Phileb|           and harmony were placed. Pain is the violation, and pleasure
 13 Phileb|         pleasure, when a man is in pain, is the memory of the opposite
 14 Phileb|      balanced between pleasure and pain; in his body there is want
 15 Phileb|           want which is a cause of pain, but in his mind a sure
 16 Phileb|         pains and not a balance of pain and pleasure.) Another question
 17 Phileb|         there is another illusion: pain has often been said by us
 18 Phileb|       devoid either of pleasure or pain. We assume, then, that there
 19 Phileb|    pleasure is only the absence of pain. They are noble fellows,
 20 Phileb|          them by contrast with the pain or sickness of body which
 21 Phileb|           they are a pleasure or a pain. (1) Some of these arise
 22 Phileb|            contrast of an internal pain and an external pleasure
 23 Phileb|           sometimes the feeling of pain predominates, as in itching
 24 Phileb|           honey,’ and also full of pain? Is there not a mixture
 25 Phileb|            we envy him, which is a pain? These mixed feelings are
 26 Phileb| performance with mixed feelings of pain as well as of pleasure;
 27 Phileb|         which rejoices not without pain at the misfortunes of others,
 28 Phileb|           which are unalloyed with pain: (2) The pleasures derived
 29 Phileb|          attended by an accidental pain of forgetting; this, however,
 30 Phileb|           best of men, if he be in pain, is bad?~And now, from the
 31 Phileb|          sophist that pleasure and pain are the final standards
 32 Phileb|            no sense of pleasure or pain, and wholly unaffected by
 33 Phileb|      better leave her now, and not pain her by applying the crucial
 34 Phileb|        said that we had better not pain pleasure, which is an impossibility?~
 35 Phileb|        SOCRATES: Have pleasure and pain a limit, or do they belong
 36 Phileb|        degree.~SOCRATES: Nor would pain, Philebus, be perfectly
 37 Phileb|          rightly tested apart from pain.~PROTARCHUS: If this is
 38 Phileb|         the origin of pleasure and pain.~PROTARCHUS: What do you
 39 Phileb|         nature and a generation of pain.~PROTARCHUS: That is very
 40 Phileb|             is a dissolution and a pain.~PROTARCHUS: True.~SOCRATES:
 41 Phileb|       again is a destruction and a pain, but the effect of moisture
 42 Phileb|           moisture in an animal is pain, and the natural process
 43 Phileb|         class of living beings, is pain, and that the process of
 44 Phileb|  refreshing, and an expectation of pain, fearful and anxious.~PROTARCHUS:
 45 Phileb|     pleasures being unalloyed with pain and the pains with pleasure,
 46 Phileb|           and whether pleasure and pain, like heat and cold, and
 47 Phileb|          Well, then, assuming that pain ensues on the dissolution,
 48 Phileb|         any feeling of pleasure or pain, great or small?~PROTARCHUS:
 49 Phileb|            that of pleasure and of pain?~PROTARCHUS: Very true.~
 50 Phileb|          beings, as well as of the pain which is felt in one of
 51 Phileb|           the actual experience of pain, and in his soul longing
 52 Phileb|            not at the same time in pain?~PROTARCHUS: Certainly.~
 53 Phileb|        same time both pleasure and pain?~PROTARCHUS: I suppose so.~
 54 Phileb|           the double experience of pain. You observed this and inferred
 55 Phileb|         rejoice, or seemed to feel pain and yet did not feel pain,
 56 Phileb|          pain and yet did not feel pain, sleeping or waking, mad
 57 Phileb|      objects, may not pleasure and pain be simple and devoid of
 58 Phileb|           seeing that pleasure and pain as well as opinion have
 59 Phileb|            if we see a pleasure or pain which errs in respect of
 60 Phileb|         SOCRATES: And pleasure and pain, as I was just now saying,
 61 Phileb|          attribute to pleasure and pain a similar real but illusory
 62 Phileb|          source of any pleasure or pain which was experienced.~PROTARCHUS:
 63 Phileb|        SOCRATES: That pleasure and pain both admit of more and less,
 64 Phileb|         measuring pleasure against pain, and pain against pain,
 65 Phileb|         pleasure against pain, and pain against pain, and pleasure
 66 Phileb|     against pain, and pain against pain, and pleasure against pleasure?~
 67 Phileb|           or defect of pleasure or pain is real or true.~PROTARCHUS:
 68 Phileb|            be neither pleasure nor pain.~SOCRATES: Very good; but
 69 Phileb|    affirmed to be devoid either of pain or of joy.~PROTARCHUS: Very
 70 Phileb|         But if so, the negation of pain will not be the same with
 71 Phileb|        that always to live without pain is the pleasantest of all
 72 Phileb|          must mean the negative of pain.~SOCRATES: Let us take any
 73 Phileb|            when they are free from pain?~PROTARCHUS: They say so.~
 74 Phileb|       pleasure and the negation of pain are of distinct natures,
 75 Phileb|           the one being a state of pain, which is an evil, and the
 76 Phileb|           the other a cessation of pain, which is of itself a good,
 77 Phileb|            them only avoidances of pain.~PROTARCHUS: And would you,
 78 Phileb|        produced in us?—Pleasure or pain?~PROTARCHUS: A villainous
 79 Phileb|   pleasures which are mingled with pain?~PROTARCHUS: Exactly.~SOCRATES:
 80 Phileb|    SOCRATES: Of cases in which the pain exceeds the pleasure, an
 81 Phileb|           most intense pleasure or pain in the inner parts, which
 82 Phileb|     contrasts and mingles with the pain or pleasure, as the case
 83 Phileb|      juxtaposition of pleasure and pain.~PROTARCHUS: Quite so.~SOCRATES:
 84 Phileb|         the slight undercurrent of pain makes him tingle, and causes
 85 Phileb|             whether of pleasure or pain, and the two unite and form
 86 Phileb|           has pleasure in hope and pain in vacuity. But now I must
 87 Phileb|         innumerable), pleasure and pain coalesce in one.~PROTARCHUS:
 88 Phileb|     experiences a mixed feeling of pain and pleasure?~PROTARCHUS:
 89 Phileb|          would you not call that a pain of the soul?~PROTARCHUS:
 90 Phileb|            mixture of pleasure and pain.~PROTARCHUS: How can we
 91 Phileb|            and also an unrighteous pain?~PROTARCHUS: Most true.~
 92 Phileb|           SOCRATES: And do we feel pain or pleasure in laughing
 93 Phileb|            with envy, mingles with pain, for envy has been acknowledged
 94 Phileb|    acknowledged by us to be mental pain, and laughter is pleasant;
 95 Phileb|       combinations of pleasure and pain in lamentations, and in
 96 Phileb|       pleasures are a cessation of pain, I do not agree, but, as
 97 Phileb|        pleasant and unalloyed with pain.~PROTARCHUS: Once more,
 98 Phileb|          no necessary admixture of pain; and all pleasures, however
 99 Phileb|         hunger of knowledge and no pain caused by such hunger precede
100 Phileb|     knowledge is not attended with pain.~SOCRATES: These pleasures
101 Phileb|             then, are unmixed with pain; and they are not the pleasures
102 Phileb|          if pure or unalloyed with pain, is always pleasanter and
103 Phileb|           was neither pleasure nor pain, but only the purest possible
104 Phileb|            he who has a feeling of pain and not of pleasure is bad
105 Phileb|          time when he is suffering pain, even though he be the best