Dialogue

501 Phileb|         generation their highest end.~PROTARCHUS: Of whom are you speaking,
502 Phileb|             which might be mentioned.~PROTARCHUS: That is certainly what
503 Phileb|               opposite of generation?~PROTARCHUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Then
504 Phileb|              purest possible thought.~PROTARCHUS: He who would make us believe
505 Phileb|               is yet another of them.~PROTARCHUS: What is it?~SOCRATES: Is
506 Phileb|              degree excels in virtue?~PROTARCHUS: Nothing, Socrates, can
507 Phileb|              brought up for judgment.~PROTARCHUS: Right.~SOCRATES: Knowledge
508 Phileb|            and the other educational?~PROTARCHUS: True.~SOCRATES: And in
509 Phileb|              the other as the impure?~PROTARCHUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Let
510 Phileb|             elements in each of them.~PROTARCHUS: What are they, and how
511 Phileb|             remains will not be much.~PROTARCHUS: Not much, certainly.~SOCRATES:
512 Phileb|               by attention and pains.~PROTARCHUS: Nothing more, assuredly.~
513 Phileb|              little which is certain.~PROTARCHUS: Most true.~SOCRATES: And
514 Phileb|             piloting and generalship.~PROTARCHUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: The
515 Phileb|         accuracy than the other arts.~PROTARCHUS: How is that?~SOCRATES:
516 Phileb|               for straightening wood.~PROTARCHUS: Very true, Socrates.~SOCRATES:
517 Phileb|         carpentering, are more exact.~PROTARCHUS: Let us make that division.~
518 Phileb|              now spoke of as primary.~PROTARCHUS: I see that you mean arithmetic,
519 Phileb|       measuring.~SOCRATES: Certainly, Protarchus; but are not these also
520 Phileb|       distinguishable into two kinds?~PROTARCHUS: What are the two kinds?~
521 Phileb|              the other philosophical.~PROTARCHUS: How would you distinguish
522 Phileb|              difference between them, Protarchus; some arithmeticians reckon
523 Phileb|             same as every other unit.~PROTARCHUS: Undoubtedly there is, as
524 Phileb|          pairs that it is one or two?~PROTARCHUS: On the analogy of what
525 Phileb|           have discussed the subject?~PROTARCHUS: I think so, but I should
526 Phileb|       pleasure is purer than another.~PROTARCHUS: Clearly; that was the intention.~
527 Phileb|           their degrees of certainty?~PROTARCHUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: And
528 Phileb|              of certainty and purity?~PROTARCHUS: That is the very question
529 Phileb|            asking.~SOCRATES: And how, Protarchus, shall we answer the enquiry?~
530 Phileb|          shall we answer the enquiry?~PROTARCHUS: O Socrates, we have reached
531 Phileb|            answer will be the easier.~PROTARCHUS: Certainly; and let us say
532 Phileb|             art of misinterpretation?~PROTARCHUS: What answer?~SOCRATES:
533 Phileb|                and yet only one name.~PROTARCHUS: Let us boldly return this
534 Phileb|               exact arts or sciences.~PROTARCHUS: Very good.~SOCRATES: And
535 Phileb|              good.~SOCRATES: And yet, Protarchus, dialectic will refuse to
536 Phileb|               to her the first place.~PROTARCHUS: And pray, what is dialectic?~
537 Phileb|             you decide this question, Protarchus?~PROTARCHUS: I have often
538 Phileb|            this question, Protarchus?~PROTARCHUS: I have often heard Gorgias
539 Phileb|              if you were not ashamed?~PROTARCHUS: As you please.~SOCRATES:
540 Phileb|               into a misapprehension?~PROTARCHUS: How?~SOCRATES: Dear Protarchus,
541 Phileb|       PROTARCHUS: How?~SOCRATES: Dear Protarchus, I never asked which was
542 Phileb|              which has higher claims.~PROTARCHUS: Well, I have been considering,
543 Phileb|              which his life is spent?~PROTARCHUS: True.~SOCRATES: He is labouring,
544 Phileb|            which will or have become.~PROTARCHUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: And
545 Phileb|            truth ever become certain?~PROTARCHUS: Impossible.~SOCRATES: How
546 Phileb|               which has no fixedness?~PROTARCHUS: How indeed?~SOCRATES: Then
547 Phileb|             attain the highest truth?~PROTARCHUS: I should imagine not.~SOCRATES:
548 Phileb|              argument a single point.~PROTARCHUS: What point?~SOCRATES: Let
549 Phileb|             second or inferior class.~PROTARCHUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: And
550 Phileb|          given to the fairest things?~PROTARCHUS: That is natural.~SOCRATES:
551 Phileb|              are to be honoured most?~PROTARCHUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And these
552 Phileb|          contemplation of true being?~PROTARCHUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And
553 Phileb|               the rivals of pleasure?~PROTARCHUS: Very true, Socrates.~SOCRATES:
554 Phileb|       materials ready to their hands.~PROTARCHUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And now
555 Phileb|               must begin to mix them?~PROTARCHUS: By all means.~SOCRATES:
556 Phileb|             and refresh our memories?~PROTARCHUS: Of what?~SOCRATES: Of that
557 Phileb|            thrice that which is good.~PROTARCHUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Well
558 Phileb|              summary of the argument.~PROTARCHUS: Let me hear.~SOCRATES:
559 Phileb|             this what we were saying, Protarchus?~PROTARCHUS: Certainly.~
560 Phileb|              were saying, Protarchus?~PROTARCHUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And
561 Phileb|              was conceded between us?~PROTARCHUS: What was it?~SOCRATES:
562 Phileb|        differs from all other things.~PROTARCHUS: In what respect?~SOCRATES:
563 Phileb|             in need of anything else.~PROTARCHUS: Exactly.~SOCRATES: And
564 Phileb|            part whatever in pleasure?~PROTARCHUS: We did.~SOCRATES: And did
565 Phileb|            alone would be sufficient?~PROTARCHUS: Certainly not.~SOCRATES:
566 Phileb|             certain degree of wisdom?~PROTARCHUS: Certainly not, Socrates;
567 Phileb|           possibly be either of them?~PROTARCHUS: Impossible.~SOCRATES: Then
568 Phileb|           place may be duly assigned.~PROTARCHUS: Right.~SOCRATES: Have we
569 Phileb|               leads towards the good?~PROTARCHUS: What road?~SOCRATES: Supposing
570 Phileb|         discovery of the man himself?~PROTARCHUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And
571 Phileb|        unmixed life but in the mixed.~PROTARCHUS: True.~SOCRATES: There is
572 Phileb|            than in that which is not?~PROTARCHUS: Far greater.~SOCRATES:
573 Phileb|               Then now let us mingle, Protarchus, at the same time offering
574 Phileb|             the ceremony of mingling.~PROTARCHUS: By all means.~SOCRATES:
575 Phileb|             of all possible mixtures.~PROTARCHUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Tell
576 Phileb|            with every sort of wisdom?~PROTARCHUS: Perhaps we might.~SOCRATES:
577 Phileb|              I can show a safer plan.~PROTARCHUS: What is it?~SOCRATES: One
578 Phileb|              more exact than another.~PROTARCHUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: There
579 Phileb|           were truer than the former.~PROTARCHUS: Very good and right.~SOCRATES:
580 Phileb|             elements of another kind?~PROTARCHUS: I think that we ought to
581 Phileb|              and of all other things.~PROTARCHUS: We will suppose such a
582 Phileb|              the building of a house?~PROTARCHUS: The knowledge which is
583 Phileb|         measure and the false circle?~PROTARCHUS: Yes, we must, if any of
584 Phileb|             and is wanting in purity?~PROTARCHUS: Yes, I think that you must,
585 Phileb|               mingle with the impure?~PROTARCHUS: I do not know, Socrates,
586 Phileb|               meeting of the waters’?~PROTARCHUS: By all means.~SOCRATES:
587 Phileb|        together before the pleasures.~PROTARCHUS: Quite true.~SOCRATES: And
588 Phileb|             first only the true ones.~PROTARCHUS: It will be by far the safer
589 Phileb|              must we not mingle them?~PROTARCHUS: Yes; the necessary pleasures
590 Phileb|             must let them all mingle?~PROTARCHUS: What shall we say about
591 Phileb|              SOCRATES: Do not ask me, Protarchus; but ask the daughters of
592 Phileb|             to answer for themselves.~PROTARCHUS: How?~SOCRATES: Tell us,
593 Phileb|          certainly answer as follows:~PROTARCHUS: How?~SOCRATES: They would
594 Phileb|           ourselves in every respect.~PROTARCHUS: And our answer will be:—
595 Phileb|               pleasures do you mean?’~PROTARCHUS: Likely enough.~SOCRATES:
596 Phileb|              memory and true opinion?~PROTARCHUS: Most certainly.~SOCRATES:
597 Phileb|          ingredient in every mixture.~PROTARCHUS: What is that?~SOCRATES:
598 Phileb|          truly be created or subsist.~PROTARCHUS: Impossible.~SOCRATES: Quite
599 Phileb|              rule over a living body.~PROTARCHUS: I agree with you, Socrates.~
600 Phileb|               habitation of the good?~PROTARCHUS: I think that we are.~SOCRATES:
601 Phileb|               to pleasure or to mind.~PROTARCHUS: Quite right; in that way
602 Phileb|              value or of none at all.~PROTARCHUS: What do you mean?~SOCRATES:
603 Phileb|         SOCRATES: Every man knows it.~PROTARCHUS: What?~SOCRATES: He knows
604 Phileb|               on the possessor of it.~PROTARCHUS: Most true.~SOCRATES: And
605 Phileb|            virtue all the world over.~PROTARCHUS: True.~SOCRATES: Also we
606 Phileb|               element in the mixture.~PROTARCHUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Then,
607 Phileb|              of the infusion of them.~PROTARCHUS: Quite right.~SOCRATES:
608 Phileb|             right.~SOCRATES: And now, Protarchus, any man could decide well
609 Phileb|        honourable among gods and men.~PROTARCHUS: Clearly, and yet perhaps
610 Phileb|              are severally most akin.~PROTARCHUS: You are speaking of beauty,
611 Phileb|               measure?~SOCRATES: Yes, Protarchus, take truth first, and,
612 Phileb|           mind is more akin to truth.~PROTARCHUS: There is no need to pause,
613 Phileb|              or wisdom than pleasure?~PROTARCHUS: Here is another question
614 Phileb|       pleasure the fairer of the two?~PROTARCHUS: No one, Socrates, either
615 Phileb|              future.~SOCRATES: Right.~PROTARCHUS: But when we see some one
616 Phileb|               of day.~SOCRATES: Then, Protarchus, you will proclaim everywhere,
617 Phileb|        eternal nature has been found.~PROTARCHUS: Yes, that seems to be the
618 Phileb|             which are of that family.~PROTARCHUS: True.~SOCRATES: And if
619 Phileb|            wrong, if I divine aright.~PROTARCHUS: I dare say.~SOCRATES: And
620 Phileb|             to good than pleasure is.~PROTARCHUS: Surely.~SOCRATES: The fifth
621 Phileb|        sciences, and some the senses.~PROTARCHUS: Perhaps.~SOCRATES: And
622 Phileb|               crown on our discourse.~PROTARCHUS: True.~SOCRATES: Then let
623 Phileb|         libation to the saviour Zeus.~PROTARCHUS: How?~SOCRATES: Philebus
624 Phileb|              and absolutely the good.~PROTARCHUS: I understand; this third
625 Phileb|            human life, than pleasure.~PROTARCHUS: True.~SOCRATES: But, suspecting
626 Phileb|           place as well as the first.~PROTARCHUS: You did.~SOCRATES: Nothing
627 Phileb|               nature of both of them.~PROTARCHUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: The
628 Phileb|              adequacy and perfection.~PROTARCHUS: Most true.~SOCRATES: But,
629 Phileb|              conqueror than pleasure.~PROTARCHUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And,
630 Phileb|             pleasure will rank fifth.~PROTARCHUS: True.~SOCRATES: But not
631 Phileb|    inspirations of divine philosophy.~PROTARCHUS: And now, Socrates, we tell
632 Phileb|               And will you let me go?~PROTARCHUS: There is a little which