Dialogue

  1 Repub|              he said. ~Certainly not, replied Glaucon. ~Then we are not
  2 Repub|              evening? ~With horses! I replied. That is a novelty. Will
  3 Repub|           that we must. ~Very good, I replied. ~Accordingly we went with
  4 Repub|             quite at home with us. ~I replied: There is nothing which
  5 Repub|               man you were? Peace, he replied; most gladly have I escaped
  6 Repub|         comforter. ~You are right, he replied; they are not convinced:
  7 Repub|             asked you the question, I replied, because I see that you
  8 Repub|                Well said, Cephalus, I replied; but as concerning justice,
  9 Repub|               You are quite right, he replied. ~But then, I said, speaking
 10 Repub|                he said. ~By heaven! I replied; and if we asked him what
 11 Repub|        characteristic of Socrates! he replied, with a bitter laugh; that'
 12 Repub|          philosopher, Thrasymachus, I replied, and well know that if you
 13 Repub|             Why should they not be? I replied; and even if they are not,
 14 Repub|              when I have the money, I replied. ~But you have, Socrates,
 15 Repub|   contribution for Socrates. ~Yes, he replied, and then Socrates will
 16 Repub|             That I learn of others, I replied, is quite true; but that
 17 Repub|               first understand you, I replied. Justice, as you say, is
 18 Repub|               to err? ~To be sure, he replied, they are liable to err? ~
 19 Repub|           Polemarchus. ~Never mind, I replied, if he now says that they
 20 Repub|              informer? ~Certainly, he replied. ~And do you suppose that
 21 Repub|             in the argument? ~Nay, he replied, "suppose" is not the word-I
 22 Repub|              A healer of the sick, he replied. ~And the pilot-that is
 23 Repub|               right? ~Quite right, he replied. ~But is the art of medicine
 24 Repub|            What makes you say that? I replied. ~Because you fancy that
 25 Repub|        inquiry? ~You appear rather, I replied, to have no care or thought
 26 Repub|            that is the difference, he replied. ~And each art gives us
 27 Repub|             the common use? ~True, he replied. ~And when the artist is
 28 Repub|     rehearsing? ~Yes, I heard him, he replied, but he has not convinced
 29 Repub|             true? ~Most certainly, he replied. ~If, I said, he makes a
 30 Repub|            you say? ~The opposite, he replied. ~And would you call justice
 31 Repub|              meaning, Thrasymachus, I replied; but still I cannot hear
 32 Repub|           guessed most infallibly, he replied. ~Then I certainly ought
 33 Repub|               like is? ~Certainly, he replied. ~Very good, Thrasymachus,
 34 Repub|              in subjection? ~True, he replied; and I will add that the
 35 Repub|            out of civility to you, he replied. ~You are very kind, I said;
 36 Repub|            own defect? ~Certainly, he replied. ~I might say the same of
 37 Repub|             really to persuade you, I replied, if I could. ~Then you certainly
 38 Repub|              there is such a class, I replied. ~Is there not also a second
 39 Repub|         converse. ~I am delighted, he replied, to hear you say so, and
 40 Repub|               been even mentioned, he replied. ~Well, then, according
 41 Repub|        helping justice. ~Nonsense, he replied. But let me add something
 42 Repub|          inquiry? ~I will tell you, I replied; justice, which is the subject
 43 Repub|          virtue of a State. ~True, he replied. ~And is not a State larger
 44 Repub|             invention. ~Of course, he replied. ~Now the first and greatest
 45 Repub|              everything. ~Probably, I replied, that would be the better
 46 Repub|               to their meal. ~True, I replied, I had forgotten; of course
 47 Repub|            would you have, Glaucon? I replied. ~Why, he said, you should
 48 Repub|              not? ~Most certainly, he replied. Then, without determining
 49 Repub|          needed by him? ~No doubt, he replied. ~Will he not also require
 50 Repub|               All these qualities, he replied, will certainly be required
 51 Repub|            means easy to overcome, he replied. ~Whereas, I said, they
 52 Repub|              what you say is true, he replied. ~Here feeling perplexed
 53 Repub|           find them? ~Many animals, I replied, furnish examples of them;
 54 Repub|             of which I am speaking, I replied, may be also seen in the
 55 Repub|                 They are the same, he replied. ~And may we not say confidently
 56 Repub|             of them. ~Very likely, he replied; but I do not as yet know
 57 Repub|               There you are right, he replied; but if anyone asks where
 58 Repub|             Something of this kind, I replied: God is always to be represented
 59 Repub|        impious. ~I agree with you, he replied, and am ready to give my
 60 Repub|           various forms? ~Perhaps, he replied. ~Well, but can you imagine
 61 Repub|            himself? ~I cannot say, he replied. ~Do you not know, I said,
 62 Repub|     comprehend you. ~The reason is, I replied, that you attribute some
 63 Repub|            that is most true. ~Yes, I replied; but that surely is what
 64 Repub|              the gods, as you say, he replied. ~Then we shall not suffer
 65 Repub|               You are quite right, he replied. ~And let us equally refuse
 66 Repub|              young. ~By all means, he replied. ~But now that we are determining
 67 Repub|               To be sure we shall, he replied. ~But if you admit that
 68 Repub|               to come? ~Certainly, he replied. ~And narration may be either
 69 Repub|               copies. ~Quite true, he replied. ~If then we adhere to our
 70 Repub|              imitated. ~Very true, he replied. ~Neither may they imitate
 71 Repub|                So I should expect, he replied. ~Then he will adopt a mode
 72 Repub|               also perfectly true, he replied. ~And do not the two styles,
 73 Repub|            harmonies? ~The Ionian, he replied, and the Lydian; they are
 74 Repub|                 Quite the reverse, he replied; and if so, the Dorian and
 75 Repub|            say, leave. ~And these, he replied, are the Dorian and Phrygian
 76 Repub|               I said. ~Not at all, he replied. ~And so, by the dog of
 77 Repub|               we have done wisely, he replied. ~Then let us now finish
 78 Repub|           harmonies. ~But, indeed, he replied, I cannot tell you. I only
 79 Repub|             for folly? ~Very true, he replied. ~And if our youth are to
 80 Repub|         nobler training than that, he replied. ~And therefore, I said,
 81 Repub|               soul? ~That is true, he replied, if the deficiency be in
 82 Repub|      temperance? ~How can that be? he replied; pleasure deprives a man
 83 Repub|               Would you say "most," I replied, when you consider that
 84 Repub|               Not so extraordinary, I replied, if you bear in mind that
 85 Repub|              Phocylides? ~Of that, he replied, there can be no doubt;
 86 Repub|               virtue. ~Yes, indeed, I replied, and equally incompatible
 87 Repub|           Asclepius. ~Naturally so, I replied. Nevertheless, the tragedians
 88 Repub|             ideal of a judge. ~Yes, I replied, and he will be a good man (
 89 Repub|            softness and effeminacy, I replied. ~Yes, he said, I am quite
 90 Repub|               his own? ~Very true, he replied. ~Then there must be a selection.
 91 Repub|               will explain to you, he replied. A resolution may go out
 92 Repub|           possess the truth? ~Yes, he replied; I agree with you in thinking
 93 Repub|               enchantment? ~Still, he replied, I do not understand you. ~
 94 Repub|            qualities. ~Very right, he replied. ~And then, I said, we must
 95 Repub|              he said. ~Nothing new, I replied; only an old Phoenician
 96 Repub|                You will not wonder, I replied, at my hesitation when you
 97 Repub|               going to tell. ~True, I replied, but there is more coming;
 98 Repub|            the present generation, he replied; there is no way of accomplishing
 99 Repub|               I see the difficulty, I replied; yet the fostering of such
100 Repub|              that you mean houses, he replied. ~Yes, I said; but they
101 Repub|           will endeavor to explain, I replied. To keep watchdogs, who,
102 Repub|             well-educated already, he replied. ~I cannot be so confident,
103 Repub|            protection. ~Very true, he replied. ~And not only their education,
104 Repub|                 That is very true, he replied; but still I should like
105 Repub|          certainly be a difficulty, I replied, in going to war with one
106 Repub|             easily steals in. ~Yes, I replied, in the form of amusement;
107 Repub|                 That is my belief, he replied. ~Then, as I was saying,
108 Repub|           them. ~Naturally enough, he replied. ~Well, and about the business
109 Repub|        invalids of this sort. ~Yes, I replied; and the charming thing
110 Repub|             will avail. ~Charming! he replied. I see nothing in going
111 Repub|        legislation? ~Nothing to us, I replied; but to Apollo, the god
112 Repub|               must join. ~We will, he replied. ~Well, then, I hope to
113 Repub|        knowledge of the guardians, he replied, and is found among those
114 Repub|               smiths? ~The smiths, he replied, will be far more numerous. ~
115 Repub|         satisfactorily discovered, he replied. ~Again, I said, there is
116 Repub|           State's behalf. ~No one, he replied, would ever think of any
117 Repub|            disagree. ~But I agree, he replied; for I suppose that you
118 Repub|            enough. ~You are right, he replied. ~Two virtues remain to
119 Repub|       temperance first. ~Certainly, I replied, I should not be justified
120 Repub|            consider, he said. ~Yes, I replied; I will; and as far as I
121 Repub|              he asked. ~Temperance, I replied, is the ordering or controlling
122 Repub|           designation? ~Certainly, he replied. ~It may also be called
123 Repub|               as I should imagine, he replied. ~Do you observe that we
124 Repub|              answered. ~Certainly, he replied, there would be a difficulty
125 Repub|            called the same? ~Like, he replied. ~The just man then, if
126 Repub|              quite content. I, too, I replied, shall be extremely well
127 Repub|              How can we? he asked. ~I replied as follows: The same thing
128 Repub|           mode of describing them, he replied. ~Then none of these objections
129 Repub|          every other desire. ~Yes, he replied, the opponent might have
130 Repub|          other pulls. ~Exactly so, he replied. ~And might a man be thirsty,
131 Repub|           illustration is perfect, he replied; and in our State, as we
132 Repub|              must be a third. ~Yes, I replied, if passion, which has already
133 Repub|               not to fear? ~Right, he replied. ~And him we call wise who
134 Repub|         anyone deny this? ~No one, he replied. ~Will the just man or citizen
135 Repub|               way. ~Certainly not, he replied. ~Come up hither, I said,
136 Repub|                I am following you, he replied: proceed. ~I said: The argument
137 Repub|             mean? he said. ~I mean, I replied, that there appear to be
138 Repub|             man or by many. ~True, he replied. ~But I regard the two names
139 Repub|         maintained. ~That is true, he replied. ~
140 Repub|             dream only. ~Fear not, he replied, for your audience will
141 Repub|             should you mind? ~Well, I replied, I suppose that I must retrace
142 Repub|             horseback! ~Very true, he replied. Yet, having begun, we must
143 Repub|              the good. ~Very true, he replied. ~First, then, whether the
144 Repub|             fair discussion. ~Yes, he replied, such is very often the
145 Repub|               You are quite right, he replied, in maintaining the general
146 Repub|               You have answered me, I replied: Well, and may we not further
147 Repub|         questions must be combined, I replied. Now I meant that you should
148 Repub|              you alluding? ~I mean, I replied, that our rulers will find
149 Repub|             too small. ~Certainly, he replied. ~We shall have to invent
150 Repub|          strange lust. ~Very true, he replied. ~And the same law will
151 Repub|         unconsecrated. ~Very true, he replied. ~This applies, however,
152 Repub|          allow them. ~Quite right, he replied. ~Such is the scheme, Glaucon,
153 Repub|             suffering. ~Very true, he replied; and I agree with you that
154 Repub|              saviours and helpers, he replied. ~And what do the rulers
155 Repub|              of guardians. ~Right, he replied. ~Both the community of
156 Repub|            common end. ~Certainly, he replied. ~And as they have nothing
157 Repub|            fathers. ~That is true, he replied. ~Then in every way the
158 Repub|       possessed all things-to whom we replied that, if an occasion offered,
159 Repub|          sexes. ~I agree with you, he replied. ~The inquiry, I said, has
160 Repub|              training them. ~That, he replied, is excellent. ~Yes, I said;
161 Repub|      hindering their burial? ~Yes, he replied, we most certainly must. ~
162 Repub|           very proper distinction, he replied. ~And may I not observe
163 Repub|             city? ~It ought to be, he replied. ~Then will not the citizens
164 Repub|              and injustice. ~True, he replied; but what of that? ~I was
165 Repub|            described? ~Surely not, he replied. ~That is the truth, I said.
166 Repub|              possible. ~Certainly, he replied. ~I think, I said, that
167 Repub|       philosophers? ~Certainly not, I replied; they are only an imitation. ~
168 Repub|              you mean? ~To another, I replied, I might have a difficulty
169 Repub|               of sounds and sights, I replied, are, as I conceive, fond
170 Repub|            absolute beauty. ~True, he replied. ~Few are they who are able
171 Repub|              him some good advice, he replied. ~Come, then, and let us
172 Repub| subject-matter of knowledge? ~Nay, he replied, that has been already disproven;
173 Repub|               also be unholy? ~No, he replied; the beautiful will in some
174 Repub|              than not to be this? ~He replied: They are like the punning
175 Repub|              simply blind? ~Truly, he replied, they are much in that condition. ~
176 Repub|                 May be." my friend, I replied, is not the word; say rather, "
177 Repub|             and human. ~Most true, he replied. ~Then how can he who has
178 Repub|              absolutely necessary, he replied. ~And must not that be a
179 Repub|             wrong? ~I cannot tell, he replied; but I should like to know
180 Repub|               follow after? ~True, he replied. ~Neither is there any reason
181 Repub|             That is very singular, he replied. ~Then there are all the
182 Repub|            unequal contest? ~None, he replied. ~No, indeed, I said, even
183 Repub|              say. ~I quite assent, he replied. ~Then let me crave your
184 Repub|              more on that subject, he replied; but I should like to know
185 Repub|                or some other? ~Yes, I replied, ours in most respects;
186 Repub|              laws. ~That was said, he replied. ~Yes, but not in a satisfactory
187 Repub|             not very near. ~Rather, I replied, of a time which is as nothing
188 Repub|              I should imagine not, he replied. ~O my friends, I said,
189 Repub|               said. ~You are aware, I replied, that quick intelligence,
190 Repub|           which had preceded. And you replied that such an exposition
191 Repub|               ordered? ~Of course, he replied; but I wish that you would
192 Repub|          parent. ~I do indeed wish, I replied, that I could pay, and you
193 Repub|              the sort. ~No, indeed, I replied; and the same is true of
194 Repub|               which you term light, I replied. ~True, he said. ~Noble,
195 Repub|              the good? ~God forbid, I replied; but may I ask you to consider
196 Repub|           ends. ~I understand you, he replied; not perfectly, for you
197 Repub|              truth. ~I understand, he replied, and give my assent, and
198 Repub|         prisoners. ~Like ourselves, I replied; and they see only their
199 Repub|              shadow? ~No question, he replied. ~To them, I said, the truth
200 Repub|           Anything but surprising, he replied. Anyone who has common-sense
201 Repub|              undoubtedly say this, he replied. ~Whereas, our argument
202 Repub|               blessed. ~Very true, he replied. ~Then, I said, the business
203 Repub|            the worst. ~Quite true, he replied. ~And will our pupils, when
204 Repub|           whole State. ~Most true, he replied. ~And the only life which
205 Repub|            and I will choose them, he replied. ~And now shall we consider
206 Repub|               gods? ~By all means, he replied. ~The process, I said, is
207 Repub|            belong? ~I do not know, he replied. ~Think a little and you
208 Repub|              and transient. ~That, he replied, may be readily allowed,
209 Repub|              study? ~Let us do so, he replied. ~And suppose we make astronomy
210 Repub|          fourth. ~The right order, he replied. And now, Socrates, as you
211 Repub|               mean? he asked. ~You, I replied, have in your mind a truly
212 Repub|               not by sight. ~True, he replied. ~The spangled heavens should
213 Repub|             other proportion. ~No, he replied, such an idea would be ridiculous. ~
214 Repub|             agree with them? ~Yes, he replied. ~But this, I said, is a
215 Repub|         mortal knowledge. ~A thing, I replied, which I would rather call
216 Repub|               what you are saying, he replied, which may be hard to believe,
217 Repub|             confident. ~Doubtless, he replied. ~But I must also remind
218 Repub|              the body. ~Very true, he replied. ~Further, he of whom we
219 Repub|             subjected. ~Certainly, he replied. ~After that time those
220 Repub|             asked. ~Say five years, I replied; at the end of the time
221 Repub|            There is no difficulty, he replied; and I agree with you in
222 Repub|             to be their kings? ~That, replied Glaucon, has been acknowledged. ~
223 Repub|             Then, like a wrestler, he replied, you must put yourself again
224 Repub|            among barbarians. ~Yes, he replied, we certainly hear of many
225 Repub|               justice. ~Certainly, he replied, we must do as you say. ~
226 Repub|    interminable labor. ~Very true, he replied. ~Now what man answers to
227 Repub|              of it. ~I understand, he replied. ~Ought I not to begin by
228 Repub|              scimitar? ~Most true, he replied. ~And when he has made reason
229 Repub|              likes? ~'Tis said so, he replied. ~And where freedom is,
230 Repub|               sees or cares? ~Yes, he replied, many and many a one. See,
231 Repub|               so he goes on. ~Yes, he replied, he is all liberty and equality. ~
232 Repub|                What good? ~Freedom, I replied; which, as they tell you
233 Repub|            cursed oligarchs. ~Yes, he replied, a very common occurrence. ~
234 Repub|            That is what I am doing, I replied; and I must add that no
235 Repub|            ruin of both? ~Just so, he replied. ~Well, I said, I meant
236 Repub|             mother. ~He is indeed, he replied. ~He first takes their property,
237 Repub|                 A fair invitation, he replied; and I see, as everyone
238 Repub|           Beginning with the State, I replied, would you say that a city
239 Repub|           that you are right. ~Yes, I replied, but in this high argument
240 Repub|              will be easily given, he replied; they shall be choruses
241 Repub|               be no doubt of that, he replied. ~Since, then, the pleasures
242 Repub|            gain? ~The philosopher, he replied, has greatly the advantage;
243 Repub|           only inference possible, he replied, is that pleasures which
244 Repub|            and mortal? ~Far purer, he replied, is the being of that which
245 Repub|               on earth? ~In heaven, I replied, there is laid up a pattern
246 Repub|               truth. ~At any rate, he replied, philosophers would say
247 Repub|            maker of the bed? ~Yes, he replied; inasmuch as by the natural
248 Repub|            when he was alive? ~Yes, I replied, that is the tradition.
249 Repub|               Say rather 'nothing' he replied. ~And should an immortal
250 Repub|               you call evil? ~Yes, he replied. ~Would you agree with me
251 Repub|     corruption of its own? ~It is, he replied. ~Consider, I said, Glaucon,
252 Repub|              any man. ~And surely, he replied, no one will ever prove
253 Repub|            now said enough. ~True, he replied. ~And thus, I said, we have