Dialogue

  1 Repub|             be a gathering of young men, and we will have a good
  2 Repub|            company with these young men; we are old friends, and
  3 Repub|           than conversing with aged men; for I regard them as travellers
  4 Repub|             what my own feeling is. Men of my age flock together;
  5 Repub|           which is not old age, but men's characters and tempers;
  6 Repub|           is common to them and all men. And hence they are very
  7 Repub|           or debts which he owes to men. Now to this peace of mind
  8 Repub|             was excellent above all men in theft and perjury." ~
  9 Repub|            Of course. ~And will not men who are injured be deteriorated
 10 Repub|         justice? ~To be sure. ~Then men who are injured are of necessity
 11 Repub|            musician by his art make men unmusical? ~Certainly not. ~
 12 Repub|            the just by justice make men unjust, or speaking generally,
 13 Repub|           in that case, O wisest of men, is there any escape from
 14 Repub|         criminal is the happiest of men, and the sufferers or those
 15 Repub|           case of lesser offices do men never take them willingly
 16 Repub|           payment which to the best men is the great inducement
 17 Repub|           attraction for them; good men do not wish to be openly
 18 Repub|           composed entirely of good men, then to avoid office would
 19 Repub|        claims to have more than all men. ~And the unjust man will
 20 Repub|          that to speak as we did of men who are evil acting at any
 21 Repub|       always the most pugnacious of men, was dissatisfied at Thrasymachus'
 22 Repub|      Secondly, I will show that all men who practise justice do
 23 Repub|          than the good. And so when men have both done and suffered
 24 Repub|          reason of the inability of men to do injustice. For no
 25 Repub|        respects be like a god among men. Then the actions of the
 26 Repub|         there he is unjust. For all men believe in their hearts
 27 Repub|              Let him be the best of men, and let him be thought
 28 Repub|            thus, Socrates, gods and men are said to unite in making
 29 Repub|          quite ready to call wicked men happy, and to honor them
 30 Repub|             and misery to many good men, and good and happiness
 31 Repub|       mendicant prophets go to rich men's doors and persuade them
 32 Repub|           gods may be influenced by men; for he also says: ~"The
 33 Repub|             from their purpose; and men pray to them and avert their
 34 Repub|           the way in which gods and men regard them, how are their
 35 Repub|             all my days?" ~For what men say is that, if I am really
 36 Repub|             mind both with gods and men, in life and after death,
 37 Repub|          because he also knows that men are not just of their own
 38 Repub|             us, and ending with the men of our own time-no one has
 39 Repub|          seen or unseen by gods and men. ~I had always admired the
 40 Repub|           must include four or five men. ~Clearly. ~And how will
 41 Repub|             tools which would teach men their own use would be beyond
 42 Repub|          citizens; this is what old men and old women should begin
 43 Repub|           most things that occur to men. For few are the goods of
 44 Repub|             will we allow our young men to hear the words of AEschylus,
 45 Repub|              God plants guilt among men when he desires utterly
 46 Repub|       allowed, is hated of gods and men? ~What do you mean? he said. ~
 47 Repub|            by the gods, but also by men? ~Yes. ~Whereas the lie
 48 Repub|            our guardians, as far as men can be, should be true worshippers
 49 Repub|            for the ears of boys and men who are meant to be free,
 50 Repub|     weepings and wailings of famous men? ~They will go with the
 51 Repub|           is least in need of other men. ~True, he said. ~And for
 52 Repub|           fortune, is to him of all men least terrible. ~Assuredly. ~
 53 Repub|          the lamentations of famous men, and making them over to
 54 Repub|           good for anything), or to men of a baser sort, that those
 55 Repub|           have Sarpedon, dearest of men to me, subdued at the hands
 56 Repub|          worth, even if only mortal men, must not be represented
 57 Repub|        useful only as a medicine to men, then the use of such medicines
 58 Repub|        again, to make the wisest of men say that nothing in his
 59 Repub|           who, while other gods and men were asleep and he the only
 60 Repub|          are done or told by famous men, these they ought to see
 61 Repub|             who was the gentlest of men and third in descent from
 62 Repub|    overweening contempt of gods and men. ~You are quite right, he
 63 Repub|             what shall we say about men? That is clearly the remaining
 64 Repub|        shall have to say that about men; poets and story-tellers
 65 Repub|            they tell us that wicked men are often happy, and the
 66 Repub|            are not to be said about men is a question which we cannot
 67 Repub|          that they ought to be good men, to imitate a woman, whether
 68 Repub|            not. ~And surely not bad men, whether cowards or any
 69 Repub|             the action or speech of men or women who are mad or
 70 Repub|          maintain, and much less to men. Certainly. ~In the next
 71 Repub|          say of their food; for the men are in training for the
 72 Repub|             into the hands of other men whom he makes lords and
 73 Repub|            we have been describing, men fill themselves with waters
 74 Repub|            reason why in youth good men often appear to be simple,
 75 Repub|            gets into the company of men of virtue, who have the
 76 Repub|     interests. ~Those are the right men. ~And they will have to
 77 Repub|           said, do you not see that men are unwillingly deprived
 78 Repub|   tragedians. I only mean that some men are changed by persuasion
 79 Repub|        power, to harm us. The young men whom we before called guardians
 80 Repub|           trained warriors, who are men of temperance and courage;
 81 Repub|        dross which is current among men, and ought not to pollute
 82 Repub|        better for it; whereas other men acquire lands, and build
 83 Repub|           to their food, like other men; and therefore they cannot,
 84 Repub|           likely be the happiest of men; but that our aim in founding
 85 Repub|             against an army of rich men. ~That is true, he said. ~
 86 Repub|    wonderful in that. ~And yet rich men probably have a greater
 87 Repub|              and grow into sensible men, they will easily see their
 88 Repub|             laws about them on good men; what regulations are necessary
 89 Repub|           States which act like the men whom I was just now describing.
 90 Repub|            States are as bad as the men; and I am very far from
 91 Repub|          seen or unseen by gods and men. ~Nonsense, said Glaucon:
 92 Repub|     ignorance, but by knowledge, do men counsel well? ~Clearly. ~
 93 Repub|            quality which makes such men and such States is justice,
 94 Repub|          seen or unseen of gods and men, or to be unjust and act
 95 Repub|           the only limit which wise men assign to the hearing of
 96 Repub|        honors and loves, among wise men who love him, need occasion
 97 Repub|       proper place. The part of the men has been played out, and
 98 Repub|             am invited by you. ~For men born and educated like our
 99 Repub|      started, when we said that the men were to be the guardians
100 Repub|             have the same duties as men, they must have the same
101 Repub|           which was assigned to the men was music and gymnastics.
102 Repub|         they must practise like the men? ~That is the inference,
103 Repub|      palaestra, exercising with the men, especially when they are
104 Repub|           than the enthusiastic old men who, in spite of wrinkles
105 Repub|         partially in the actions of men, or not at all? And is the
106 Repub|           And do not the natures of men and women differ very much
107 Repub|       Whether the tasks assigned to men and to women should not
108 Repub|        inconsistency in saying that men and women, whose natures
109 Repub|        different pursuits, and that men's and women's natures are
110 Repub|   opposition in nature between bald men and hairy men; and if this
111 Repub|          between bald men and hairy men; and if this is admitted
112 Repub|       admitted by us, then, if bald men are cobblers, we should
113 Repub|             should forbid the hairy men to be cobblers, and conversely? ~
114 Repub|           only in women bearing and men begetting children, this
115 Repub|             things superior to many men, yet on the whole what you
116 Repub|           both; all the pursuits of men are the pursuits of women
117 Repub|        impose all our enactments on men and none of them on women? ~
118 Repub|    differences of this sort? ~Yes. ~Men and women alike possess
119 Repub|        companions and colleagues of men who have similar qualities
120 Repub|              Would you say that all men are equal in excellence,
121 Repub|           system to be more perfect men, or the cobblers whose education
122 Repub|             the State than that the men and women of a State should
123 Repub|     legislator, having selected the men, will now select the women
124 Repub|         held by women as well as by men – Yes - ~The proper officers
125 Repub|         Certainly, he said, both in men and women those years are
126 Repub|             him: shame, which makes men refrain from laying hands
127 Repub|           the pains and pangs which men experience in bringing up
128 Repub|            agree then, I said, that men and women are to have a
129 Repub|         women are to share with the men? And in so doing they will
130 Repub|             of their valor, whether men or women, with hymns and
131 Repub|          guardians of speech-gifted men"? ~Yes; and we accept his
132 Repub|             is to be found in other men? ~The approximation will
133 Repub|           same is true of ambitious men; if they cannot command
134 Repub|          with such a study. ~And to men like him, I said, when perfected
135 Repub|            manner in which the best men are treated in their own
136 Repub|            these reasons, and among men like these, philosophy,
137 Repub|          philosophy, what manner of men are they who aspire after
138 Repub|          which is seldom seen among men? ~Rare indeed. ~And what
139 Repub|           perfection young and old, men and women alike, and fashion
140 Repub|         class out of which come the men who are the authors of the
141 Repub|          things, whether natures of men or institutions, are but
142 Repub|               hard is the good," as men say. ~Still, he said, let
143 Repub|        either convert him and other men, or do something which may
144 Repub|           noble sentiments; such as men utter when they are earnestly
145 Repub|            envy, contending against men; his eye is ever directed
146 Repub|            State and the manners of men, from which, as from a tablet,
147 Repub|          which, when existing among men, Homer calls the form and
148 Repub|          they have made the ways of men, as far as possible, agreeable
149 Repub|        great as this ought the best men in our State, to whom everything
150 Repub|    intelligence are only like blind men who feel their way along
151 Repub|             And do you see, I said, men passing along the wall carrying
152 Repub|             next the reflections of men and other objects in the
153 Repub|         would he not be ridiculous? Men would say of him that up
154 Repub|          them that in other States, men of their class are not obliged
155 Repub|           of other States, in which men fight with one another about
156 Repub|         answered; for they are just men, and the commands which
157 Repub|             Surely they will be the men who are wisest about affairs
158 Repub|             politics? ~They are the men, and I will choose them,
159 Repub|             remember that our young men are to be warrior athletes? ~
160 Repub|             are to be the principal men of our State to go and learn
161 Repub|          say that these are not the men, and that I am referring
162 Repub|             But do you imagine that men who are unable to give and
163 Repub|          the desires or opinions of men, or are cultivated with
164 Repub|              but, if our pupils are men of another stamp, the reverse
165 Repub| undeservedly trampled under foot of men I could not help feeling
166 Repub|       former selection we chose old men, we must not do so in this.
167 Repub|            other office which young men are qualified to hold: in
168 Repub|         have been saying applies to men only and not to women as
169 Repub|        share in all things like the men. ~Well, I said, and you
170 Repub|         vary as the dispositions of men vary, and that there must
171 Repub|         said, the States are as the men are; they grow out of human
172 Repub|     gymnastics; and hence the young men of your State will be less
173 Repub|              Yes. ~Yes, I said; and men of this stamp will be covetous
174 Repub|           and all the characters of men, omitting none of them,
175 Repub|       proportion as riches and rich men are honored in the State,
176 Repub|        loving contention and glory, men become lovers of trade and
177 Repub|             poor, the other of rich men; and they are living on
178 Repub|        anything but riches and rich men, or to be ambitious of anything
179 Repub|             himself; he will be two men, and not one; but, in general,
180 Repub|      carelessness and extravagance, men of good family have often
181 Repub|              On the other hand, the men of business, stooping as
182 Repub|     adherents, especially the young men of the governing class,
183 Repub|         drawing the conclusion that men like him are only rich because
184 Repub|         charming, so there are many men to whom this State, which
185 Repub|         their abode in the minds of men who are dear to the gods,
186 Repub|           there, in the face of all men; and if any help be sent
187 Repub|           cast forth; they persuade men that moderation and orderly
188 Repub|            in that direction, or of men of business, once more in
189 Repub|           who hug their chains, and men of naught; she would have
190 Repub|            like subjects: these are men after her own heart, whom
191 Repub|            in word or deed; and old men condescend to the young
192 Repub|             tragic poets being wise men will forgive us and any
193 Repub|             all of us, even in good men, there is a lawless wild-beast
194 Repub|         able to rule, not only over men, but also over the gods? ~
195 Repub|       desires. ~Exactly. ~When such men are only private individuals
196 Repub|            we not rightly call such men treacherous? ~No question. ~
197 Repub|           may not be the opinion of men in general? ~Yes, he said,
198 Repub|               And in estimating the men, too, may I not fairly make
199 Repub|            when compared with other men? ~That again, he said, is
200 Repub|           the most miserable of all men. ~There, I said, I think
201 Repub|       greedy, and yet alone, of all men in the city, he is never
202 Repub|            and combating with other men. ~Yes, he said, the similitude
203 Repub|           the real tyrant, whatever men may think, is the real slave,
204 Repub|          seen or unseen by gods and men"? ~Let the words be added. ~
205 Repub|           the souls of one class of men, another in others, as may
206 Repub|        examine the three classes of men, and ask of them in turn
207 Repub|            hands of fierce and evil men, would be the gainer, however
208 Repub|            at large? ~Clearly. ~And men are blamed for pride and
209 Repub|          discern what pursuits make men better or worse in private
210 Repub|       Scythian, and other ingenious men have conceived, which is
211 Repub|            such an effect in making men love them that their companions
212 Repub|             imitates the actions of men, whether voluntary or involuntary,
213 Repub|         that from the evil of other men something of evil is communicated
214 Repub|          gods and praises of famous men are the only poetry which
215 Repub|             prove that the souls of men become more unjust in consequence
216 Repub|           to the soul from gods and men, both in life and after
217 Repub|         escape the eyes of gods and men, still this admission ought
218 Repub|             she is held by gods and men and which we acknowledge
219 Repub|             what do they receive of men? Look at things as they
220 Repub|         carries off the prize which men have to bestow. ~True. ~
221 Repub|           upon the just by gods and men in this present life, in
222 Repub|            to ascend; and then wild men of fiery aspect, who were
223 Repub|          there were lives of famous men, some who were famous for
224 Repub|            musicians, wanting to be men. The soul which obtained
225 Repub|           have it. And not only did men pass into animals, but I