Dialogue

  1 Repub|                   BOOK I: OF WEALTH, JUSTICE, MODERATION, AND THEIR OPPOSITES~
  2 Repub|             soul of him who lives in justice and holiness, and is the
  3 Repub|           replied; but as concerning justice, what is it?-to speak the
  4 Repub|              a correct definition of justice. ~Quite correct, Socrates,
  5 Repub|             to you, truly say, about justice? ~He said that the repayment
  6 Repub|              repayment of a debt was justice, he did not mean to include
  7 Repub|              darkly of the nature of justice; for he really meant to
  8 Repub|             really meant to say that justice is the giving to each man
  9 Repub|               And what is that which justice gives, and to whom? ~If,
 10 Repub|            preceding instances, then justice is the art which gives good
 11 Repub|                Then in time of peace justice will be of no use? ~I am
 12 Repub|         thinking so. ~You think that justice may be of use in peace as
 13 Repub|             power of acquisition has justice in time of peace? ~In contracts,
 14 Repub|              In contracts, Socrates, justice is of use. ~And by contracts
 15 Repub|          Precisely. ~That is to say, justice is useful when money is
 16 Repub|              pruning-hook safe, then justice is useful to the individual
 17 Repub|             them, you would say that justice is useful; but when you
 18 Repub|              is the inference. ~Then justice is not good for much. But
 19 Repub|            Simonides are agreed that justice is an art of theft; to be
 20 Repub|             And that human virtue is justice? ~To be sure. ~Then men
 21 Repub|     Impossible. ~And can the just by justice make men unjust, or speaking
 22 Repub|              Then if a man says that justice consists in the repayment
 23 Repub|            was the first to say that justice is "doing good to your friends
 24 Repub|            but if this definition of justice also breaks down, what other
 25 Repub|             want really to know what justice is, you should not only
 26 Repub|           will not have you say that justice is duty or advantage or
 27 Repub|              when we are seeking for justice, a thing more precious than
 28 Repub|             give you an answer about justice other and better, he said,
 29 Repub|             he said; I proclaim that justice is nothing else than the
 30 Repub|           understand you, I replied. Justice, as you say, is the interest
 31 Repub|         their own interests, are the justice which they deliver to their
 32 Repub|             is the same principle of justice, which is the interest of
 33 Repub|            there is one principle of justice, which is the interest of
 34 Repub|              remark that in defining justice you have yourself used the
 35 Repub|              we are both agreed that justice is interest of some sort,
 36 Repub|   subjects-and that is what you call justice? ~Doubtless. ~Then justice,
 37 Repub|           justice? ~Doubtless. ~Then justice, according to your argument,
 38 Repub|            also that to obey them is justice? Has not that been admitted? ~
 39 Repub|          must also have acknowledged justice not to be for the interest
 40 Repub|          injury. For if, as you say, justice is the obedience which the
 41 Repub|             subjects to obey them is justice. ~Yes, Polemarchus-Thrasymachus
 42 Repub|    Cleitophon, but he also said that justice is the interest of the stronger,
 43 Repub|        interest; whence follows that justice is the injury quite as much
 44 Repub|            was affirmed by him to be justice. ~Those were not his words,
 45 Repub|              I said, did you mean by justice what the stronger thought
 46 Repub|             at first and now repeat, justice is the interest of the stronger. ~
 47 Repub|           saw that the definition of justice had been completely upset,
 48 Repub|             as not even to know that justice and the just are in reality
 49 Repub|             freedom and mastery than justice; and, as I said at first,
 50 Repub|             and, as I said at first, justice is the interest of the stronger,
 51 Repub|              to be more gainful than justice, even if uncontrolled and
 52 Repub|           are mistaken in preferring justice to injustice. ~And how am
 53 Repub|      agreeing with Thrasymachus that justice is the interest of the stronger.
 54 Repub|            more gainful than perfect justice? ~Yes, that is what I say,
 55 Repub|          suppose that you would call justice virtue and injustice vice? ~
 56 Repub|       injustice to be profitable and justice not. ~What else then would
 57 Repub|         replied. ~And would you call justice vice? ~No, I would rather
 58 Repub|          with wisdom and virtue, and justice with the opposite. ~Certainly
 59 Repub|              we were now agreed that justice was virtue and wisdom, and
 60 Repub|            of the relative nature of justice and injustice may be carried
 61 Repub|      stronger and more powerful than justice, but now justice, having
 62 Repub|       powerful than justice, but now justice, having been identified
 63 Repub|              or be exercised without justice or only with justice. ~If
 64 Repub|         without justice or only with justice. ~If you are right in your
 65 Repub|              right in your view, and justice is wisdom, then only with
 66 Repub|            is wisdom, then only with justice; but if I am right, then
 67 Repub|             I am right, then without justice. ~I am delighted, Thrasymachus,
 68 Repub|            hatreds and fighting, and justice imparts harmony and friendship;
 69 Repub|            have been some remnant of justice in them, which enabled them
 70 Repub|            And we have admitted that justice is the excellence of the
 71 Repub|              be more profitable than justice. ~Let this, Socrates, he
 72 Repub|              at first, the nature of justice. I left that inquiry and
 73 Repub|             away to consider whether justice is virtue and wisdom, or
 74 Repub|            comparative advantages of justice and injustice, I could not
 75 Repub|             all. For I know not what justice is, and therefore I am not
 76 Repub|              classes you would place justice? ~In the highest class,
 77 Repub|        another mind; they think that justice is to be reckoned in the
 78 Repub|           just now, when he censured justice and praised injustice. But
 79 Repub|             to my mind the nature of justice and injustice has not yet
 80 Repub|             the nature and origin of justice according to the common
 81 Repub|            that all men who practise justice do so against their will,
 82 Repub|             heard the superiority of justice to injustice maintained
 83 Repub|     satisfactory way. I want to hear justice praised in respect of itself;
 84 Repub|             to hear you too praising justice and censuring injustice.
 85 Repub|             the nature and origin of justice. ~They say that to do injustice
 86 Repub|             the origin and nature of justice; it is a mean or compromise,
 87 Repub|            power of retaliation; and justice, being at a middle point
 88 Repub|             the nature and origin of justice. ~Now that those who practise
 89 Repub|              that those who practise justice do so involuntarily and
 90 Repub|            diverted into the path of justice by the force of law. The
 91 Repub|          that he would stand fast in justice. No man would keep his hands
 92 Repub|            or because he thinks that justice is any good to him individually,
 93 Repub|    profitable to the individual than justice, and he who argues as I
 94 Repub|              greatest reputation for justice. If he have taken a false
 95 Repub|              is just for the sake of justice or for the sake of honor
 96 Repub|     therefore, let him be clothed in justice only, and have no other
 97 Repub|        uttermost extreme, the one of justice and the other of injustice,
 98 Repub|              me the power of helping justice. ~Nonsense, he replied.
 99 Repub|            the praise and censure of justice and injustice, which is
100 Repub|             why? not for the sake of justice, but for the sake of character
101 Repub|        unjust from the reputation of justice. More, however, is made
102 Repub|           who, like a god, Maintains justice; to whom the black earth
103 Repub|           style in which they praise justice. But about the wicked there
104 Repub|        another way of speaking about justice and injustice, which is
105 Repub|             is always declaring that justice and virtue are honorable,
106 Repub|          words of Pindar: ~"Can I by justice or by crooked ways of deceit
107 Repub|            acquire the reputation of justice, a heavenly life is promised
108 Repub|           shall we any longer choose justice rather than the worst injustice?
109 Repub|          wealth, be willing to honor justice; or indeed to refrain from
110 Repub|          from laughing when he hears justice praised? And even if there
111 Repub|            and who is satisfied that justice is best, still he is not
112 Repub|          blamed injustice or praised justice except with a view to the
113 Repub|             which he has within him, justice is the greatest good, and
114 Repub|            stronger than these about justice and injustice, grossly,
115 Repub|           only the superiority which justice has over injustice, but
116 Repub|           say that you do not praise justice, but the appearance of it;
117 Repub|        Thrasymachus in thinking that justice is another's good and the
118 Repub|            as you have admitted that justice is one of that highest class
119 Repub|            ask you in your praise of justice to regard one point only:
120 Repub|        essential good and evil which justice and injustice work in the
121 Repub|              them. Let others praise justice and censure injustice, magnifying
122 Repub|            not only prove to us that justice is better than injustice,
123 Repub|       thought, the superiority which justice has over injustice. And
124 Repub|        impiety in being present when justice is evil spoken of and not
125 Repub|           first, about the nature of justice and injustice, and secondly,
126 Repub|            will tell you, I replied; justice, which is the subject of
127 Repub|           the larger the quantity of justice is likely to be larger and
128 Repub|           inquire into the nature of justice and injustice, first as
129 Repub|           creation, we shall see the justice and injustice of the State
130 Repub|           think so. ~Where, then, is justice, and where is injustice,
131 Repub|            be more likely to see how justice and injustice originate.
132 Repub|              is our final end-How do justice and injustice grow up in
133 Repub|            when undetected, but that justice is a man's own loss and
134 Repub|              we have discovered what justice is, and how naturally advantageous
135 Repub|        multiply in a State, halls of justice and medicine are always
136 Repub|            getting out of the way of justice: and all for what?-in order
137 Repub|        should be most likely to find justice, and in the ill-ordered
138 Repub|             where, amid all this, is justice? Son of Ariston, tell me
139 Repub|          where in it we can discover justice and where injustice, and
140 Repub|             that for you not to help justice in her need would be an
141 Repub|        seeking, not for courage, but justice; and for the purpose of
142 Repub|    State-first, temperance, and then justice, which is the end of our
143 Repub|              true. ~Now, can we find justice without troubling ourselves
144 Repub|           said, nor do I desire that justice should be brought to light
145 Repub|             a State virtuous must be justice, if we only knew what that
146 Repub|           cover, and look sharp that justice does not steal away, and
147 Repub|         inquiry, ages ago, there was Justice tumbling out at our feet,
148 Repub|              we have been talking of Justice, and have failed to recognize
149 Repub|         nature was best adapted; now justice is this principle or a part
150 Repub|            Further, we affirmed that Justice was doing one's own business,
151 Repub|             way may be assumed to be justice. Can you tell me whence
152 Repub|         three were discovered by us, justice would be the fourth, or
153 Repub|             into this competition is justice? ~Exactly. ~Let us look
154 Repub|               Then on this view also justice will be admitted to be the
155 Repub|          their own business, that is justice, and will make the city
156 Repub|            trial, this conception of justice be verified in the individual
157 Repub|             could previously examine justice on the larger scale, there
158 Repub|          well that in the good State justice would be found. Let the
159 Repub|              strike a light in which justice will shine forth, and the
160 Repub|             if we regard the idea of justice only, will be like the just
161 Repub|            of what he believes to be justice; and because he suffers
162 Repub|         cannot but remember that the justice of the State consisted in
163 Repub|             is very certain. ~And is justice dimmer in the individual,
164 Repub|          such men and such States is justice, or do you hope to discover
165 Repub|              us to a primary form of justice, has now been verified? ~
166 Repub|           another's, was a shadow of justice, and for that reason it
167 Repub|             Clearly. ~But in reality justice was such as we were describing,
168 Repub|             State, and the nature of justice in each of them, we should
169 Repub|            so. ~And if the nature of justice and injustice be known,
170 Repub|               And just actions cause justice, and unjust actions cause
171 Repub|           And is not the creation of justice the institution of a natural
172 Repub|             comparative advantage of justice and injustice has not been
173 Repub|            that he is not to acquire justice and virtue, or to escape
174 Repub|              beauty, or goodness, or justice, in the matter of laws.
175 Repub|           hither in the search after justice and injustice. ~True, he
176 Repub|             nothing fail of absolute justice; or may we be satisfied
177 Repub|            him of a higher degree of justice than is to be found in other
178 Repub|          into the nature of absolute justice and into the character of
179 Repub|          many just, and not absolute justice, and the like-such persons
180 Repub|              about beauty, goodness, justice in this, if not already
181 Repub|       gracious, the friend of truth, justice, courage, temperance, who
182 Repub|              he leads? ~Impossible. ~Justice and health of mind will
183 Repub|             is there any champion of justice at whose side they may fight
184 Repub|            an unskilful artificer of justice, temperance, and every civil
185 Repub|          will first look at absolute justice and beauty and temperance,
186 Repub| distinguished the several natures of justice, temperance, courage, and
187 Repub|         higher than this-higher than justice and the other virtues? ~
188 Repub|            you have already given of justice and temperance and the other
189 Repub|             the shadows of images of justice, and is endeavoring to meet
190 Repub|              never yet seen absolute justice? ~Anything but surprising,
191 Repub|            acknowledge, he said, the justice of your rebuke. Still, I
192 Repub|              sound in body and mind, justice herself will have nothing
193 Repub|             certain principles about justice and honor, which were taught
194 Repub|            from right, and regarding justice as the greatest and most
195 Repub|             who leads a life of pure justice or pure injustice. The inquiry
196 Repub|            of the argument to prefer justice. ~Certainly, he replied,
197 Repub|          were right in our notion of justice? ~Yes, he said, and we were
198 Repub|             the power and quality of justice and injustice, let us have
199 Repub|              To him the supporter of justice makes answer that he should
200 Repub|         quite what the maintainer of justice will say. ~And so from every
201 Repub|           advantage, the approver of justice is right and speaks the
202 Repub|       ennobled by the acquirement of justice and temperance and wisdom,
203 Repub|     excitement of poetry, he neglect justice and virtue? ~Yes, he said;
204 Repub|         beauty will be revealed, and justice and injustice and all the
205 Repub|           the rewards and glories of justice, which, as you were saying,
206 Repub|             in Homer and Hesiod; but justice in her own nature has been
207 Repub|          great are the rewards which justice and the other virtues procure
208 Repub|         argument, in order that pure justice might be weighed against
209 Repub|       decided, I demand on behalf of justice that the estimation in which
210 Repub|              other good things which justice of herself provides. ~Yes,
211 Repub|           rewards of beneficence and justice and holiness were in the
212 Repub|        heavenly way and follow after justice and virtue always, considering