Dialogue

   1 Repub|             by the cloak behind, and said, Polemarchus desires you
   2 Repub|            master was. ~There he is, said the youth, coming after
   3 Repub|            wait. ~Certainly we will, said Glaucon; and in a few minutes
   4 Repub|             procession. ~Polemarchus said to me, I perceive, Socrates,
   5 Repub|             You are not far wrong, I said. ~But do you see, he rejoined,
   6 Repub|            not be the alternative, I said, that we may persuade you
   7 Repub|          refuse to listen to you? he said. ~Certainly not, replied
   8 Repub|       another during the race? ~Yes, said Polemarchus; and not only
   9 Repub|            not be perverse. ~Glaucon said, I suppose, since you insist,
  10 Repub|              me eagerly, and then he said: ~You don't come to see
  11 Repub|          will tell you, Socrates, he said, what my own feeling is.
  12 Repub|         might go on-Yes, Cephalus, I said; but I rather suspect that
  13 Repub|             wealth. That is true, he said. ~Yes, that is very true,
  14 Repub|           from your wealth? ~One, he said, of which I could not expect
  15 Repub|          opinion the greatest. ~Well said, Cephalus, I replied; but
  16 Repub|             he replied. ~But then, I said, speaking the truth and
  17 Repub|         Simonides is to be believed, said Polemarchus, interposing. ~
  18 Repub|   Polemarchus, interposing. ~I fear, said Cephalus, that I must go
  19 Repub|             Polemarchus your heir? I said. ~To be sure, he answered,
  20 Repub|              say, about justice? ~He said that the repayment of a
  21 Repub|       Certainly not. ~When Simonides said that the repayment of a
  22 Repub|             to them? ~To be sure, he said, they are to receive what
  23 Repub|            have been his meaning, he said. ~By heaven! I replied;
  24 Repub|              in seeming? ~Surely, he said, a man may be expected to
  25 Repub|            Simonides. ~Very true, he said; and I think that we had
  26 Repub|             an enemy the same may be said. ~You would argue that the
  27 Repub|             just. ~I agree with you, said Polemarchus. ~Then you and
  28 Repub|              battle at your side, he said. ~Shall I tell you whose
  29 Repub|             enemies." ~Most true, he said. ~Yes, I said; but if this
  30 Repub|          Most true, he said. ~Yes, I said; but if this definition
  31 Repub|             to him. ~Thrasymachus, I said, with a quiver, don't be
  32 Repub|          cases were at all alike! he said. ~Why should they not be?
  33 Repub|         justice other and better, he said, than any of these? What
  34 Repub|              But you have, Socrates, said Glaucon: and you, Thrasymachus,
  35 Repub|               Why, my good friend, I said, how can anyone answer who
  36 Repub|       consented to begin. Behold, he said, the wisdom of Socrates;
  37 Repub|              well. ~Listen, then, he said; I proclaim that justice
  38 Repub|           Not at all, my good sir, I said; I am trying to understand
  39 Repub|            little clearer. ~Well, he said, have you never heard that
  40 Repub|              Now I understand you, I said; and whether you are right
  41 Repub|         addition, you must allow, he said. ~Great or small, never
  42 Repub|            can be clearer, Socrates, said Polemarchus. ~Yes, said
  43 Repub|              said Polemarchus. ~Yes, said Cleitophon, interposing,
  44 Repub|              no need of any witness, said Polemarchus, for Thrasymachus
  45 Repub|             Polemarchus-Thrasymachus said that for subjects to do
  46 Repub|              Cleitophon, but he also said that justice is the interest
  47 Repub|      interest of the stronger. ~But, said Cleitophon, he meant by
  48 Repub|             Tell me, Thrasymachus, I said, did you mean by justice
  49 Repub|              not? ~Certainly not, he said. Do you suppose that I call
  50 Repub|              he is mistaken? ~Yes, I said, my impression was that
  51 Repub|       implies; though he is commonly said to err, and I adopted the
  52 Repub|        commands; and therefore, as I said at first and now repeat,
  53 Repub|          strictest of all senses, he said. And now cheat and play
  54 Repub|                And do you imagine, I said, that I am such a madman
  55 Repub|          well shave a lion. ~Why, he said, you made the attempt a
  56 Repub|           and you failed. ~Enough, I said, of these civilities. It
  57 Repub|              sailors. ~Very true, he said. ~Now, I said, every art
  58 Repub|          Very true, he said. ~Now, I said, every art has an interest? ~
  59 Repub|      interest of the body? ~True, he said. ~Nor does the art of horsemanship
  60 Repub|              of their art? ~True, he said. ~But surely, Thrasymachus,
  61 Repub|              of reluctance. ~Then, I said, no science or art considers
  62 Repub|            reluctant "Yes." ~Then, I said, Thrasymachus, there is
  63 Repub|           instead of replying to me, said, Tell me, Socrates, have
  64 Repub|           you ask such a question, I said, when you ought rather to
  65 Repub|              than justice; and, as I said at first, justice is the
  66 Repub|            leave us. Thrasymachus, I said to him, excellent man, how
  67 Repub|             do I differ from you, he said, as to the importance of
  68 Repub|             am I to convince you, he said, if you are not already
  69 Repub|        convinced by what I have just said; what more can I do for
  70 Repub|             souls? ~Heaven forbid! I said; I would only ask you to
  71 Repub|           recall what was previously said, that although you began
  72 Repub|             sea, and so on? ~Yes, he said. ~And the art of payment
  73 Repub|              And we have admitted, I said, that the good of each art
  74 Repub|          What do you mean, Socrates? said Glaucon. The first two modes
  75 Repub|               And for this reason, I said, money and honor have no
  76 Repub|        certainly, he replied. ~If, I said, he makes a set speech and
  77 Repub|              persons. ~Very good, he said. ~And which method do I
  78 Repub|          understand you to prefer? I said. ~That which you propose. ~
  79 Repub|          Well, then, Thrasymachus, I said, suppose you begin at the
  80 Repub|              wise and good? ~Yes, he said; at any rate those of them
  81 Repub|            do so class them. ~Now, I said, you are on more substantial
  82 Repub|              business. ~Very true, I said; that is what I have to
  83 Repub|              or would not be able, I said, is not to the point. My
  84 Repub|              is just? ~Of course, he said, for he claims to have more
  85 Repub|             his unlike? ~Nothing, he said, can be better than that
  86 Repub|             neither? ~Good again, he said. ~And is not the unjust
  87 Repub|          unlike them? ~Of course, he said, he who is of a certain
  88 Repub|           not, not. ~Each of them, I said, is such as his like is? ~
  89 Repub|           Very good, Thrasymachus, I said; and now to take the case
  90 Repub|             They were. ~And you also said that the just will not go
  91 Repub|              another point: ~Well, I said, Thrasymachus, that matter
  92 Repub|       remember? ~Yes, I remember, he said, but do not suppose that
  93 Repub|               No." ~Certainly not, I said, if contrary to your real
  94 Repub|          your real opinion. ~Yes, he said, I will, to please you,
  95 Repub|              Nothing in the world, I said; and if you are so disposed
  96 Repub|          likely to do so. ~I know, I said, that such was your position;
  97 Repub|       replied. ~You are very kind, I said; and would you have the
  98 Repub|              another? No, indeed, he said, they could not. ~But if
  99 Repub|           Thrasymachus? ~I agree, he said, because I do not wish to
 100 Repub|             you. ~How good of you, I said; but I should like to know
 101 Repub|             Yes. And, O my friend, I said, surely the gods are just? ~
 102 Repub|             matter, and not what you said at first. But whether the
 103 Repub|              I do not understand, he said. ~Let me explain: Can you
 104 Repub|            These, then, may be truly said to be the ends of these
 105 Repub|          understand your meaning, he said, and assent. ~And that to
 106 Repub|           instead? ~How can they, he said, if they are blind and cannot
 107 Repub|             the soul? ~Assuredly, he said. ~And has not the soul an
 108 Repub|               Let this, Socrates, he said, be your entertainment at
 109 Repub|              I am indebted to you, I said, now that you have grown
 110 Repub|           have the battle out. So he said to me: Socrates, do you
 111 Repub|         their results? ~Certainly, I said. ~And would you not recognize
 112 Repub|              from them? ~There is, I said, this third class also.
 113 Repub|            to be avoided. ~I know, I said, that this is their manner
 114 Repub|        convinced by him. ~I wish, he said, that you would hear me
 115 Repub|           form of such a power as is said to have been possessed by
 116 Repub|          Heavens! my dear Glaucon, I said, how energetically you polish
 117 Repub|           statues. ~I do my best, he said. And now that we know what
 118 Repub|           Socrates, gods and men are said to unite in making the life
 119 Repub|             interposed: Socrates, he said, you do not suppose that
 120 Repub|             that Glaucon has already said quite enough to lay me in
 121 Repub|              the young hear all this said about virtue and vice, and
 122 Repub|             was quite delighted, and said: Sons of an illustrious
 123 Repub|            good eyes. Seeing then, I said, that we are no great wits,
 124 Repub|            good-fortune. ~Very true, said Adeimantus; but how does
 125 Repub|            comparing them. ~That, he said, is an excellent proposal. ~
 126 Repub|          attempt to construct one? I said; for to do so, as I am inclined
 127 Repub|        therefore. ~I have reflected, said Adeimantus, and am anxious
 128 Repub|          should proceed. ~A State, I said, arises, as I conceive,
 129 Repub|            termed a State. ~True, he said. ~And they exchange with
 130 Repub|           good. ~Very true. ~Then, I said, let us begin and create
 131 Repub|           called merchants? ~Yes, he said. ~And there is another class
 132 Repub|          right in your suggestion, I said; we had better think the
 133 Repub|             to poverty or war. ~But, said Glaucon, interposing, you
 134 Repub|             them. ~Yes, Socrates, he said, and if you were providing
 135 Repub|         Glaucon? I replied. ~Why, he said, you should give them the
 136 Repub|            the modern style. ~Yes, I said, now I understand: the question
 137 Repub|          must be procured. ~True, he said. ~Then we must enlarge our
 138 Repub|           describing above. ~Why? he said; are they not capable of
 139 Repub|         defending themselves? ~No, I said; not if we were right in
 140 Repub|              success. ~Very true, he said. ~But is not war an art? ~
 141 Repub|             kind of troops? ~Yes, he said, the tools which would teach
 142 Repub|            duties of the guardian, I said, the more time and skill
 143 Repub|            will be no easy matter, I said; but we must be brave and
 144 Repub|              he replied. ~Whereas, I said, they ought to be dangerous
 145 Repub|              destroy them. ~True, he said. ~What is to be done, then?
 146 Repub|          What is to be done, then? I said; how shall we find a gentle
 147 Repub|           had preceded. My friend, I said, no wonder that we are in
 148 Repub|            us. ~What do you mean? he said. ~I mean to say that there
 149 Repub|              service to us. ~Then, I said, my dear friend, the task
 150 Repub|          understand your meaning, he said. ~You know, I said, that
 151 Repub|       meaning, he said. ~You know, I said, that we begin by telling
 152 Repub|           That was my meaning when I said that we must teach music
 153 Repub|         gymnastics. ~Quite right, he said. ~You know also that the
 154 Repub|           tales are you speaking? he said. ~You may find a model of
 155 Repub|             lesser in the greater, I said; for they are necessarily
 156 Repub|          term the greater. ~Those, I said, which are narrated by Homer
 157 Repub|              stories do you mean, he said; and what fault do you find
 158 Repub|             which is most serious, I said; the fault of telling a
 159 Repub|            to the original. ~Yes, he said, that sort of thing is certainly
 160 Repub|           you mean? ~First of all, I said, there was that greatest
 161 Repub|          very few indeed. ~Why, yes, said he, those stories are extremely
 162 Repub|          entirely agree with you, he said; in my opinion those stories
 163 Repub|           basest, should any word be said to them of the wars in heaven,
 164 Repub|              shall we answer him? ~I said to him, You and I, Adeimantus,
 165 Repub|             business. ~Very true, he said; but what are these forms
 166 Repub|            to me to be most true, he said. ~Then we must not listen
 167 Repub|    strenuously denied, and not to be said or sung or heard in verse
 168 Repub|              only. ~That will do, he said. ~And what do you think
 169 Repub|              I cannot answer you, he said, without more thought. ~
 170 Repub|       without more thought. ~Well, I said; but if we suppose a change
 171 Repub|      transform himself? ~Clearly, he said, that must be the case if
 172 Repub|              necessarily follows, he said, in my judgment. ~Then,
 173 Repub|             in my judgment. ~Then, I said, my dear friend, let none
 174 Repub|             gods. ~Heaven forbid, he said. ~But although the gods
 175 Repub|         replied. ~Do you not know, I said, that the true lie, if such
 176 Repub|           men? ~What do you mean? he said. ~I mean that no one is
 177 Repub|        possession of him. ~Still, he said, I do not comprehend you. ~
 178 Repub|              account. ~Very true, he said. ~But can any of these reasons
 179 Repub|              would be ridiculous, he said. ~Then the lying poet has
 180 Repub|           vision. ~Your thoughts, he said, are the reflection of my
 181 Repub|            You agree with me then, I said, that this is the second
 182 Repub|              at the banquet, and who said this-he it is who has slain
 183 Repub|          them. ~I entirely agree, he said, in these principles, and
 184 Repub|          ADEIMANTUS.) ~SUCH, then, I said, are our principles of theology-some
 185 Repub|             principles are right, he said. ~But if they are to be
 186 Repub|              him? ~Certainly not, he said. ~And can he be fearless
 187 Repub|            That will be our duty, he said. ~Then, I said, we shall
 188 Repub|              duty, he said. ~Then, I said, we shall have to obliterate
 189 Repub|           There is a real danger, he said. ~Then we must have no more
 190 Repub|              of other men. ~True, he said. ~And for this reason the
 191 Repub|           slight occasions. ~Yes, he said, that is most true. ~Yes,
 192 Repub|          with them. ~Clearly not, he said. ~Then if anyone at all
 193 Repub|       fellow-sailors. ~Most true, he said. ~If, then, the ruler catches
 194 Repub|           State. ~Most certainly, he said, if our idea of the State
 195 Repub|           and Aphrodite? ~Indeed, he said, I am strongly of opinion
 196 Repub|             as, for example, what is said in the verses, ~"He smote
 197 Repub|             endured!" ~Certainly, he said. ~In the next place, we
 198 Repub|              do so. ~Undoubtedly, he said, these are not sentiments
 199 Repub|          things are or are not to be said about men is a question
 200 Repub|          just or not. ~Most true, he said. ~Enough of the subjects
 201 Repub|            understand what you mean, said Adeimantus. ~Then I must
 202 Repub|             the two? That, again, he said, I do not quite understand. ~
 203 Repub|         narrative of the poet may be said to proceed by way of imitation? ~
 204 Repub|            be effected. If Homer had said, "The priest came, having
 205 Repub|         narrative. ~I understand, he said. ~Or you may suppose the
 206 Repub|            only left. ~That also, he said, I understand; you mean,
 207 Repub|           take you with me? ~Yes, he said; I see now what you meant. ~
 208 Repub|              into our State? ~Yes, I said; but there may be more than
 209 Repub|              go. ~And go we will, he said. ~Then, Adeimantus, let
 210 Repub|            mind? ~Yes, certainly, he said. ~Then, I said, we will
 211 Repub|         certainly, he said. ~Then, I said, we will not allow those
 212 Repub|            or labor. ~Very right, he said. ~Neither must they represent
 213 Repub|              like? ~How can they, he said, when they are not allowed
 214 Repub|              sort of thing? ~Nay, he said, if madness be forbidden,
 215 Repub|              of madmen. ~You mean, I said, if I understand you aright,
 216 Repub|            you agree? ~Certainly, he said; that is the model which
 217 Repub|          little narration. ~That, he said, will be his mode of speaking. ~
 218 Repub|               That is quite true, he said. ~Whereas the other requires
 219 Repub|      together. ~They include all, he said. ~And shall we receive into
 220 Repub|          imitator of virtue. ~Yes, I said, Adeimantus; but the mixed
 221 Repub|           same throughout? ~True, he said. ~And therefore when any
 222 Repub|                We certainly will, he said, if we have the power. ~
 223 Repub|               Then now, my friend, I said, that part of music or literary
 224 Repub|       discussed. ~I think so too, he said. ~Next in order will follow
 225 Repub|             with ourselves. ~I fear, said Glaucon, laughing, that
 226 Repub|             may presuppose? ~Yes, he said; so much as that you may. ~
 227 Repub|            such like. ~These then, I said, must be banished; they
 228 Repub|          just now speaking. ~Then, I said, if these and these only
 229 Repub|             is not at all strange, I said. ~Not at all, he replied. ~
 230 Repub|              finish the purgation, I said. Next in order to harmonies,
 231 Repub|              unable to say. ~Then, I said, we must take Damon into
 232 Repub|          words by them. ~Just so, he said, they should follow the
 233 Repub|               That is quite true, he said. ~But shall our superintendence
 234 Repub|           replied. ~And therefore, I said, Glaucon, musical training
 235 Repub|              long familiar. ~Yes, he said, I quite agree with you
 236 Repub|            as in learning to read, I said, we were satisfied when
 237 Repub|             the same. ~I perceive, I said, that you have or have had
 238 Repub|          harmonious? ~Quite true, he said. ~Then no intemperance or
 239 Repub|            taste. ~I quite agree, he said. ~Thus much of music, which
 240 Repub|              of beauty? ~I agree, he said. ~After music comes gymnastics,
 241 Repub|            the world he is. ~Yes, he said; that a guardian should
 242 Repub|           all-are they not? ~Yes, he said. ~And will the habit of
 243 Repub|             Why not? ~I am afraid, I said, that a habit of body such
 244 Repub|        regimen? ~Yes, I do. ~Then, I said, a finer sort of training
 245 Repub|        nothing of the kind. ~Yes, he said; and knowing this, they
 246 Repub|             the body. ~Most true, he said. ~But when intemperance
 247 Repub|              him? ~Of all things, he said, the most disgraceful. ~
 248 Repub|           more disgraceful? ~Yes, he said, that is still more disgraceful. ~
 249 Repub|           more disgraceful. ~Well, I said, and to require the help
 250 Repub|            too, a disgrace? ~Yes, he said, they do certainly give
 251 Repub|           names to diseases. ~Yes, I said, and I do not believe that
 252 Repub|         treating his case. ~Well, he said, that was surely an extraordinary
 253 Repub|          former days, as is commonly said, before the time of Herodicus,
 254 Repub|            of medicine, which may be said to educate diseases. But
 255 Repub|             world. ~How was that? he said. ~By the invention of lingering
 256 Repub|         reward of his skill! ~Yes, I said; a reward which a man might
 257 Repub|           sort. ~How do you mean? he said. ~I mean this: When a carpenter
 258 Repub|            no more trouble. ~Yes, he said, and a man in his condition
 259 Repub|             far only. ~Has he not, I said, an occupation; and what
 260 Repub|          occupation? ~Quite true, he said. ~But with the rich man
 261 Repub|            practise virtue? ~Nay, he said, I think that he had better
 262 Repub|       dispute with him about this, I said; but rather ask ourselves:
 263 Repub|              to the State. ~Then, he said, you regard Asclepius as
 264 Repub|            of moral natures? ~Yes, I said, I too would have good judges
 265 Repub|            How so? he asked. ~Why, I said, you join physicians and
 266 Repub|                That is very true, he said. ~But with the judge it
 267 Repub|            their own souls. ~Yes, he said, they are far too apt to
 268 Repub|              deceived. ~Therefore, I said, the judge should not be
 269 Repub|        personal experience. ~Yes, he said, that is the ideal of a
 270 Repub|              foolish. ~Most true, he said. ~Then the good and wise
 271 Repub|            simple music which, as we said, inspires temperance, will
 272 Repub|             muscles. ~Very right, he said. ~Neither are the two arts
 273 Repub|        object of them? ~I believe, I said, that the teachers of both
 274 Repub|             Did you never observe, I said, the effect on the mind
 275 Repub|                In what way shown? he said. ~The one producing a temper
 276 Repub|      effeminacy, I replied. ~Yes, he said, I am quite aware that the
 277 Repub|              for him. ~Yet surely, I said, this ferocity only comes
 278 Repub|            of their mists? ~True, he said. ~And he ends by becoming
 279 Repub|               That is quite true, he said. ~And as there are two principles
 280 Repub|            difficulty. ~Very good, I said; then what is the next question?
 281 Repub|             State. ~How cast off? he said. ~I will explain to you,
 282 Repub|             truth. ~I understand, he said, the willing loss of a resolution;
 283 Repub|           have yet to learn. ~Why, I said, do you not see that men
 284 Repub|           opinion. ~I understand, he said, and you are quite right. ~
 285 Repub|          influence of fear? ~Yes, he said; everything that deceives
 286 Repub|      everything that deceives may be said to enchant. ~Therefore,
 287 Repub|             he replied. ~And then, I said, we must try them with enchantments-that
 288 Repub|      generally, I agree with you, he said. ~And perhaps the word "
 289 Repub|        rulers. ~I agree with you, he said. ~How then may we devise
 290 Repub|          city? ~What sort of lie? he said. ~Nothing new, I replied;
 291 Repub|           you have heard. ~Speak, he said, and fear not. Well, then,
 292 Repub|              You had good reason, he said, to be ashamed of the lie
 293 Repub|              dwellings. ~Just so, he said. ~And their dwellings must
 294 Repub|          houses, he replied. ~Yes, I said; but they must be the houses
 295 Repub|           What is the difference? he said. ~That I will endeavor to
 296 Repub|       shepherd? ~Truly monstrous, he said. ~And therefore every care
 297 Repub|        confident, my dear Glaucon, I said; I am much more certain
 298 Repub|             all other matters? ~Yes, said Glaucon. ~
 299 Repub|          would you answer, Socrates, said he, if a person were to
 300 Repub|              mounting guard? ~Yes, I said; and you may add that they
 301 Repub|         nature might be added. ~But, said he, let us suppose all this
 302 Repub|          charge. ~You mean to ask, I said, what will be our answer? ~
 303 Repub|           the old path, my belief, I said, is that we shall find the
 304 Repub|            someone came up to us and said: Why do you not put the
 305 Repub|            What are they? ~Wealth, I said, and poverty. ~How do they
 306 Repub|            discovery of new evils, I said, against which the guardians
 307 Repub|               What evils? ~Wealth, I said, and poverty; the one is
 308 Repub|                In the first place, I said, if we have to fight, our
 309 Repub|          rich men. ~That is true, he said. ~And do you not suppose,
 310 Repub|           him at once. ~What, not, I said, if he were able to run
 311 Repub|            personage? ~Certainly, he said, there would be nothing
 312 Repub|                That is most true, he said. ~And what, I said, will
 313 Repub|          true, he said. ~And what, I said, will be the best limit
 314 Repub|         proper limit. ~Very good, he said. ~Here then, I said, is
 315 Repub|               he said. ~Here then, I said, is another order which
 316 Repub|         self-sufficing. ~And surely, said he, this is not a very severe
 317 Repub|           upon them. ~And the other, said I, of which we were speaking
 318 Repub|           one and not many. ~Yes, he said; that is not so difficult. ~
 319 Repub|              he asked. ~Education, I said, and nurture: If our citizens
 320 Repub|              settling them. ~Also, I said, the State, if once started
 321 Repub|          animals. ~Very possibly, he said. ~Then to sum up: This is
 322 Repub|              change with them. ~Yes, said Adeimantus; and you may
 323 Repub|             s and your own. ~Then, I said, our guardians must lay
 324 Repub|          fortress in music? ~Yes, he said; the lawlessness of which
 325 Repub|              harmless. ~Why, yes, he said, and there is no harm; were
 326 Repub|             public. ~Is that true? I said. ~That is my belief, he
 327 Repub|             citizens. ~Very true, he said. ~And when they have made
 328 Repub|             up again. ~Very true, he said. ~Thus educated, they will
 329 Repub|               And for this reason, I said, I shall not attempt to
 330 Repub|            particulars? ~I think, he said, that there is no need to
 331 Repub|              for themselves. ~Yes, I said, my friend, if God will
 332 Repub|             And without divine help, said Adeimantus, they will go
 333 Repub|            You would compare them, I said, to those invalids who,
 334 Repub|      intemperance? ~Exactly. ~Yes, I said; and what a delightful life
 335 Repub|            cases are very common, he said, with invalids of this sort. ~
 336 Repub|           right. ~These gentlemen, I said, do not seem to be in your
 337 Repub|             was describing? ~Yes, he said; the States are as bad as
 338 Repub|             But do you not admire, I said, the coolness and dexterity
 339 Repub|       political corruption? ~Yes, he said, I do; but not of all of
 340 Repub|        admired. ~What do you mean? I said; you should have more feeling
 341 Repub|              what they say? ~Nay, he said, certainly not in that case. ~
 342 Repub|           heads of a hydra? ~Yes, he said; that is just what they
 343 Repub|            are doing. ~I conceive, I said, that the true legislator
 344 Repub|         regulations. ~What, then, he said, is still remaining to us
 345 Repub|             all. ~Which are they? he said. ~The institution of temples
 346 Repub|             gods and men. ~Nonsense, said Glaucon: did you not promise
 347 Repub|       impiety? ~I do not deny that I said so; and as you remind me,
 348 Repub|             one left. ~Very true, he said. ~And is not a similar method
 349 Repub|              have been describing is said to be wise as being good
 350 Repub|        advises about brazen pots, he said, nor as possessing any other
 351 Repub|            reason of any of them, he said. ~Nor yet by reason of a
 352 Repub|         agricultural? ~Yes. ~Well, I said, and is there any knowledge
 353 Repub|            Most true. ~Thus, then, I said, the nature and place in
 354 Repub|    discovered, he replied. ~Again, I said, there is no difficulty
 355 Repub|             How do you mean? ~Why, I said, everyone who calls any
 356 Repub|             you please. ~You know, I said, that dyers, when they want
 357 Repub|            any other color. ~Yes, he said; I know that they have a
 358 Repub|             appearance. ~Then now, I said, you will understand what
 359 Repub|             you describe? ~Why, yes, said I, you may, and if you add
 360 Repub|       purpose of our inquiry we have said enough. ~You are right,
 361 Repub|              can be accomplished, he said, nor do I desire that justice
 362 Repub|          request. ~Then consider, he said. ~Yes, I replied; I will;
 363 Repub|              language. ~No doubt, he said. ~There is something ridiculous
 364 Repub|         under control, then a man is said to be master of himself;
 365 Repub|          reason in that. ~And now, I said, look at our newly created
 366 Repub|             over the worse. ~Yes, he said, I see that what you say
 367 Repub|       numerous class. ~Certainly, he said. ~Whereas the simple and
 368 Repub|            few. ~That I perceive, he said. ~Then if there be any city
 369 Repub|           agree with you. ~And so, I said, we may consider three out
 370 Repub|             way. ~Here is no path, I said, and the wood is dark and
 371 Repub|             saw something: Halloo! I said, I begin to perceive a track,
 372 Repub|           not escape. ~Good news, he said. ~Truly, I said, we are
 373 Repub|             news, he said. ~Truly, I said, we are stupid fellows. ~
 374 Repub|               Well, then, tell me, I said, whether I am right or not:
 375 Repub|           part of it. ~Yes, we often said that one man should do one
 376 Repub|             not being a busybody; we said so again and again, and
 377 Repub|          again, and many others have said the same to us. ~Yes, we
 378 Repub|             the same to us. ~Yes, we said so. ~Then to do one's own
 379 Repub|        temperance, courage. ~Yes, he said. ~And the virtue which enters
 380 Repub|           Most true. Seeing, then, I said, that there are three distinct
 381 Repub|            with you. ~We will not, I said, be over-positive as yet;
 382 Repub|              same classes? ~True, he said. ~And so of the individual;
 383 Repub|          same manner? ~Certainly, he said. ~Once more, then, O my
 384 Repub|              the good. ~Very true, I said; and I do not think that
 385 Repub|              satisfied with that? he said; under the circumstances,
 386 Repub|         pursuing the speculation, he said. ~Must we not acknowledge,
 387 Repub|           Must we not acknowledge, I said, that in each of us there
 388 Repub|         nations; and the same may be said of the love of knowledge,
 389 Repub|           Egyptians. ~Exactly so, he said. ~There is no difficulty
 390 Repub|             the difficulty. ~Yes, he said; there lies the difficulty. ~
 391 Repub|                Good. ~For example, I said, can the same thing be at
 392 Repub|                Impossible. ~Still, I said, let us have a more precise
 393 Repub|             way of thinking. ~Yet, I said, that we may not be compelled
 394 Repub|         shall be withdrawn. ~Yes, he said, that will be the best way. ~
 395 Repub|            be the best way. ~Well, I said, would you not allow that
 396 Repub|          their opposition)? ~Yes, he said, they are opposites. ~Well,
 397 Repub|              are opposites. ~Well, I said, and hunger and thirst,
 398 Repub|           Let us take that class, he said. ~The object of one is food,
 399 Repub|          food is of hunger? ~Yes, he said; the simple desire is, as
 400 Repub|             is to be? ~Certainly, he said. ~And so of more or less,
 401 Repub|           original meaning in what I said about relatives. My meaning
 402 Repub|         unwilling to drink? ~Yes, he said, it constantly happens. ~
 403 Repub|              satisfactions? ~Yes, he said, we may fairly assume them
 404 Repub|         say-akin to desire. ~Well, I said, there is a story which
 405 Repub|           heard the story myself, he said. ~The moral of the tale
 406 Repub|              that is the meaning, he said. ~And are there not many
 407 Repub|           excited by them. ~True, he said. ~But when he thinks that
 408 Repub|            shepherds. ~I perceive, I said, that you quite understand
 409 Repub|        auxiliary of reason? ~Yes, he said, there must be a third. ~
 410 Repub|           late enough. ~Excellent, I said, and you may see passion
 411 Repub|        rebuked by it. ~Very true, he said. ~And so, after much tossing,
 412 Repub|         likely to have forgotten, he said. ~We must recollect that
 413 Repub|            do his own work? ~Yes, he said, we must remember that too. ~
 414 Repub|              rhythm? ~Quite true, he said. ~And these two, thus nurtured
 415 Repub|          life of man? ~Very true, he said. ~Both together will they
 416 Repub|            not rebel? ~Certainly, he said, that is the true account
 417 Repub|           individual. ~And surely, I said, we have explained again
 418 Repub|        difference, in my opinion, he said. ~Because, if any doubt
 419 Repub|              it ignorance. ~You have said the exact truth, Socrates. ~
 420 Repub|           Let us say so. ~And now, I said, injustice has to be considered. ~
 421 Repub|         clear? ~What do you mean? he said. ~Why, I said, they are
 422 Repub|           you mean? he said. ~Why, I said, they are like disease and
 423 Repub|             in the body. ~How so? he said. ~Why, I said, that which
 424 Repub|             How so? he said. ~Why, I said, that which is healthy causes
 425 Repub|       natural order? ~Exactly so, he said. ~Then virtue is the health,
 426 Repub|              have described? ~Yes, I said, the question is, as you
 427 Repub|          replied. ~Come up hither, I said, and behold the various
 428 Repub|              he replied: proceed. ~I said: The argument seems to have
 429 Repub|          note. ~What do you mean? he said. ~I mean, I replied, that
 430 Repub|              and five of the soul, I said. ~What are they? ~The first,
 431 Repub|              are they? ~The first, I said, is that which we have been
 432 Repub|         describing, and which may be said to have two names, monarchy
 433 Repub|            forms. ~What are they? he said. ~I was proceeding to tell
 434 Repub|              we do?" ~Certainly not, said Adeimantus, raising his
 435 Repub|             his voice. ~Who is it, I said, whom you are refusing to
 436 Repub|        refusing to let off? ~You, he said. ~I repeated, Why am I especially
 437 Repub|              to be let off? ~Why, he said, we think that you are lazy,
 438 Repub|          right, Adeimantus? ~Yes, he said; but what is right in this
 439 Repub|           this. ~To that resolution, said Glaucon, you may regard
 440 Repub|                And without more ado, said Thrasymachus, you may consider
 441 Repub|             to be equally agreed. ~I said, You know not what you are
 442 Repub|            acceptance of what I then said, you ask me to begin again
 443 Repub|              that we have come here, said Thrasymachus-to look for
 444 Repub|             a limit. ~Yes, Socrates, said Glaucon, and the whole of
 445 Repub|            practicability of what is said may be doubted; and looked
 446 Repub|             sceptical or hostile. ~I said: My good friend, I suppose
 447 Repub|             by these words. ~Yes, he said. ~Then let me tell you that
 448 Repub|             me. ~Glaucon laughed and said: Well, then, Socrates, in
 449 Repub|             then and speak. ~Well, I said, the law says that when
 450 Repub|              I perhaps ought to have said before in the proper place.
 451 Repub|          originally started, when we said that the men were to be
 452 Repub|            the form of a question, I said: Are dogs divided into he'
 453 Repub|             enough for them? ~No, he said, they share alike; the only
 454 Repub|              should rather expect, I said, that several of our proposals,
 455 Repub|           gymnasia. ~Yes, indeed, he said: according to present notions
 456 Repub|             ridiculous. ~But then, I said, as we have determined to
 457 Repub|             undefended. ~Why not? he said. ~Then let us put a speech
 458 Repub|           and children. ~By Zeus, he said, the problem to be solved
 459 Repub|       anything but easy. Why, yes, I said, but the fact is that when
 460 Repub|           save us? ~I suppose so, he said. Well, then, let us see
 461 Repub|       Precisely. ~Verily, Glaucon, I said, glorious is the power of
 462 Repub|           same natures. ~Why, no, he said, that was never considered
 463 Repub|           never considered by us. ~I said: Suppose that by way of
 464 Repub|             That would be a jest, he said. ~Yes, I said, a jest; and
 465 Repub|             a jest, he said. ~Yes, I said, a jest; and why? because
 466 Repub|              mind a physician may be said to have the same nature. ~
 467 Repub|                Certainly. ~And if, I said, the male and female sex
 468 Repub|             pursuits. ~Very true, he said. ~Next, we shall ask our
 469 Repub|              And if so, my friend, I said, there is no special faculty
 470 Repub|            you have escaped. ~Yes, I said, but a greater is coming;
 471 Repub|              let me see. ~The law, I said, which is the sequel of
 472 Repub|          child his parent." ~Yes, he said, that is a much greater
 473 Repub|     questionable. ~I do not think, I said, that there can be any dispute
 474 Repub|            defence of both. ~Well, I said, I submit to my fate. Yet
 475 Repub|             care. ~That is right, he said. ~You, I said, who are their
 476 Repub|              right, he said. ~You, I said, who are their legislator,
 477 Repub|              word, I think? ~Yes, he said; necessity, not geometrical,
 478 Repub|            mass of mankind. ~True, I said; and this, Glaucon, like
 479 Repub|         rulers will forbid. ~Yes, he said, and it ought not to be
 480 Repub|           heavens! my dear friend, I said, what consummate skill will
 481 Repub|        particular skill? ~Because, I said, our rulers will often have
 482 Repub|               That is quite true, he said; but to what are you alluding? ~
 483 Repub|             births. ~How so? ~Why, I said, the principle has been
 484 Repub|              rulers. ~To be sure, he said. ~And I think that our braver
 485 Repub|             they should be. ~Yes, he said, that must be done if the
 486 Repub|           are having children. ~Why, said I, and so they ought. Let
 487 Repub|              to include? ~A woman, I said, at twenty years of age
 488 Repub|           fifty-five. ~Certainly, he said, both in men and women those
 489 Repub|            public hymeneals shall be said to have done an unholy and
 490 Repub|          accordingly. ~That also, he said, is a reasonable proposition.
 491 Repub|            sorrow with him? ~Yes, he said, that is what will happen
 492 Repub|               It will now be time, I said, for us to return to our
 493 Repub|      connected with him. ~Capital, I said; but let me ask you once
 494 Repub|           their kinsfolk? ~These, he said, and none other; for what
 495 Repub|         necessity. ~That is good, he said. ~Yes; and there is a further
 496 Repub|          worth speaking of. ~Yes, he said, a man has no need of eyes
 497 Repub|                The Olympic victor, I said, is deemed happy in receiving
 498 Repub|          burial. ~Do you remember, I said, how in the course of the
 499 Repub|           here to repeat what I have said elsewhere, that if any of
 500 Repub|         wisely Hesiod spoke, when he said, "half is more than the