Dialogue

 501 Repub|             life. ~You agree then, I said, that men and women are
 502 Repub|             replied. ~The inquiry, I said, has yet to be made, whether
 503 Repub|            There is no difficulty, I said, in seeing how war will
 504 Repub|           The idea is ridiculous, he said. ~There is also the effect
 505 Repub|              never recover. ~True, I said; but would you never allow
 506 Repub|        escape. ~What do you mean? he said. ~I mean that we must mount
 507 Repub|       believe that you are right, he said. ~Next, as to war; what
 508 Repub|          prize of valor. ~Capital, I said. That the brave man is to
 509 Repub|  strengthening thing. ~Most true, he said. ~Then in this, I said,
 510 Repub|            he said. ~Then in this, I said, Homer shall be our teacher;
 511 Repub|       replied, is excellent. ~Yes, I said; and when a man dies gloriously
 512 Repub|               That is very right, he said. ~Next, how shall our soldiers
 513 Repub|              observe. ~Certainly, he said; they will in this way be
 514 Repub|              ought the conquerors, I said, to take anything but their
 515 Repub|        instead? ~Very like a dog, he said. ~Then we must abstain from
 516 Repub|              I have the pleasure, he said, of hearing your opinion? ~
 517 Repub|           barbarians? ~Very good, he said. ~And therefore when Hellenes
 518 Repub|             agree. ~Consider then, I said, when that which we have
 519 Repub|           fighting forever. ~Yes, he said, that is a better temper
 520 Repub|           satisfaction? ~I agree, he said, that our citizens should
 521 Repub|     instantly make a raid upon me, I said, and have no mercy; I have
 522 Repub|              sort which you make, he said, the more determined are
 523 Repub|             exist in fact. ~True, he said. ~Would a painter be any
 524 Repub|       replied. ~That is the truth, I said. But if, at your request,
 525 Repub|              he replied. ~I think, I said, that there might be a reform
 526 Repub|        possible one. ~What is it? he said. ~Now then, I said, I go
 527 Repub|            it? he said. ~Now then, I said, I go to meet that which
 528 Repub|          mark my words. ~Proceed. ~I said: "Until philosophers are
 529 Repub|            got me into the scrape, I said. ~And I was quite right;
 530 Repub|            right. ~I ought to try, I said, since you offer me such
 531 Repub|             now for a definition, he said. ~Follow me, I said, and
 532 Repub|               he said. ~Follow me, I said, and I hope that I may in
 533 Repub|           memory. ~Another person, I said, might fairly reply as you
 534 Repub|            is not hungry, and may be said to have a bad appetite and
 535 Repub|             good one? ~Very true, he said. ~Whereas he who has a taste
 536 Repub|             Am I not right? ~Glaucon said: If curiosity makes a philosopher,
 537 Repub|           are only an imitation. ~He said: Who then are the true philosophers? ~
 538 Repub|              philosophers? ~Those, I said, who are lovers of the vision
 539 Repub|                That is also good, he said; but I should like to know
 540 Repub|             you distinguish them? he said. ~The lovers of sounds and
 541 Repub|              faculty? ~Certainly, he said; for opinion is that with
 542 Repub|            as opinion? ~Why, yes, he said: how can any reasonable
 543 Repub|         excellent answer, proving, I said, that we are quite conscious
 544 Repub|          being, knowledge? ~True, he said. ~Then opinion is not concerned
 545 Repub|        called by particular names be said to be this rather than not
 546 Repub|             will you do with them? I said. Can they have a better
 547 Repub|               That is quite true, he said. ~Thus then we seem to have
 548 Repub|             like-such persons may be said to have opinion but not
 549 Repub|         eternal and immutable may be said to know, and not to have
 550 Repub|            view. ~I do not think, he said, that the way could have
 551 Repub|         shortened. ~I suppose not, I said; and yet I believe that
 552 Repub|       question? he asked. ~Surely, I said, the one which follows next
 553 Repub|               Very good. ~Neither, I said, can there be any question
 554 Repub|           There can be no reason, he said, for rejecting those who
 555 Repub|            respect. Suppose, then, I said, that we determine how far
 556 Repub|              Agreed. ~And further, I said, let us agree that they
 557 Repub|           willing to renounce; as we said before of the lover and
 558 Repub|           his affections. ~Right, he said. ~And is there anything
 559 Repub|              of jealousy himself, he said, could find no fault with
 560 Repub|               And to men like him, I said, when perfected by years
 561 Repub|            Adeimantus interposed and said: To these statements, Socrates,
 562 Repub|                You ask a question, I said, to which a reply can only
 563 Repub|              suppose. ~I perceive, I said, that you are vastly amused
 564 Repub|        good-for-nothing? ~Of course, said Adeimantus. ~Then you will
 565 Repub|              you will hardly need, I said, to hear the interpretation
 566 Repub|       star-gazers. ~Precisely so, he said. ~For these reasons, and
 567 Repub|           philosophy. ~Yes, that was said. ~Well, and is not this
 568 Repub|       notions of him? ~Certainly, he said. ~And have we not a right
 569 Repub|            his travail. ~Nothing, he said, can be more just than such
 570 Repub|           one could deny what I then said, still, if you leave words
 571 Repub|           speaking of those who were said to be useless but not wicked-and,
 572 Repub|            are these corruptions? he said. ~I will see if I can explain
 573 Repub|              the truth as a whole, I said, and in the right way; you
 574 Repub|             do so? he asked. ~Why, I said, we know that all germs
 575 Repub|             is this accomplished? he said. ~When they meet together,
 576 Repub|          some things which are being said or done, and blame other
 577 Repub|              compel him. ~And yet, I said, there is a still greater
 578 Repub|              replied. ~No, indeed, I said, even to make the attempt
 579 Repub|          mental ones? ~Certainly, he said. ~And his friends and fellow-citizens
 580 Repub|               That often happens, he said. ~And what will a man such
 581 Repub|                That is most true, he said. ~And so philosophy is left
 582 Repub|             else would you expect, I said, when you think of the puny
 583 Repub|           true wisdom? ~No doubt, he said. ~Then, Adeimantus, I said,
 584 Repub|           said. ~Then, Adeimantus, I said, the worthy disciples of
 585 Repub|          with bright hopes. ~Yes, he said, and he will have done a
 586 Repub|             her. ~Not any of them, I said; and that is precisely the
 587 Repub|          What that State is: ~No, he said; there you are wrong, for
 588 Repub|             down the laws. ~That was said, he replied. ~Yes, but not
 589 Repub|               as men say. ~Still, he said, let the point be cleared
 590 Repub|             shall not be hindered, I said, by any want of will, but,
 591 Repub|          what manner? ~At present, I said, the students of philosophy
 592 Repub|        earnest you are, Socrates! he said; I am sure of that; and
 593 Repub|             Do not make a quarrel, I said, between Thrasymachus and
 594 Repub|               They are strangers, he said, to the words of which you
 595 Repub|        opinion agrees with yours, he said. ~But do you mean to say
 596 Repub|            replied. ~O my friends, I said, do not attack the multitude:
 597 Repub|             quite agree with you, he said. ~And do you not also think,
 598 Repub|         angry if they understand, he said. But how will they draw
 599 Repub|          They will be very right, he said. ~Having effected this,
 600 Repub|      likeness of God. ~Very true, he said. ~And one feature they will
 601 Repub|             ways of God? ~Indeed, he said, in no way could they make
 602 Repub|          fairer picture. ~And now, I said, are we beginning to persuade
 603 Repub|             terms? ~By all means, he said. ~Then let us suppose that
 604 Repub|     philosophers? ~Surely no man, he said. ~And when they have come
 605 Repub|             this? ~Who indeed! ~But, said I, one is enough; let there
 606 Repub|             of thing which was being said, and then the argument turned
 607 Repub|             I perfectly remember, he said. ~Yes, my friend, I said,
 608 Repub|             said. ~Yes, my friend, I said, and I then shrank from
 609 Repub|              a philosopher. ~Yes, he said, let that be affirmed. ~
 610 Repub|       patches. ~What do you mean? he said. ~You are aware, I replied,
 611 Repub|              of them. ~Very true, he said. ~On the other hand, those
 612 Repub|              command. ~Certainly, he said. ~And will they be a class
 613 Repub|              and exercises. ~Yes, he said, you are quite right in
 614 Repub|      knowledge? ~You may remember, I said, that we divided the soul
 615 Repub|              and wisdom? ~Indeed, he said, if I had forgotten, I should
 616 Repub|             for you to say. ~Yes, he said, I thought and the others
 617 Repub|            truth. ~But, my friend, I said, a measure of such things
 618 Repub|         people are indolent. ~Yes, I said; and there cannot be any
 619 Repub|          True. ~The guardian then, I said, must be required to take
 620 Repub|            proper calling. ~What, he said, is there a knowledge still
 621 Repub|           the other virtues? ~Yes, I said, there is. And of the virtues
 622 Repub|           highest knowledge? ~Nay, I said, ask if you will; but I
 623 Repub|              How ridiculous! ~Yes, I said, that they should begin
 624 Repub|           ridiculous. ~Most true, he said. ~And those who make pleasure
 625 Repub|             everyone. ~Very true, he said. ~Of this then, which every
 626 Repub|        ignorance? ~Certainly not, he said. ~I am sure, I said, that
 627 Repub|               he said. ~I am sure, I said, that he who does not know
 628 Repub|         knowledge of them. ~That, he said, is a shrewd suspicion of
 629 Repub|       different from either? ~Aye, I said, I knew all along that a
 630 Repub|              does not know? ~Not, he said, with the assurance of positive
 631 Repub|               And do you not know, I said, that all mere opinions
 632 Repub|          must implore you, Socrates, said Glaucon, not to turn away
 633 Repub|               not. ~By all means, he said, tell us about the child,
 634 Repub|             we can: proceed. ~Yes, I said, but I must first come to
 635 Repub|          many" is implied. ~True, he said. ~And there is an absolute
 636 Repub|       visible things? ~The sight, he said. ~And with the hearing,
 637 Repub|              And with the hearing, I said, we hear, and with the other
 638 Repub|     contrived? ~No, I never have, he said. ~Then reflect: has the
 639 Repub|          light, I replied. ~True, he said. ~Noble, then, is the bond
 640 Repub|              ignoble thing? ~Nay, he said, the reverse of ignoble. ~
 641 Repub|            of ignoble. ~And which, I said, of the gods in heaven would
 642 Repub|       recognized by sight? ~True, he said. ~And this is he whom I
 643 Repub|             little more explicit? he said. ~Why, you know, I said,
 644 Repub|              said. ~Why, you know, I said, that the eyes, when a person
 645 Repub|         light and sight may be truly said to be like the sun, and
 646 Repub|              beauty that must be, he said, which is the author of
 647 Repub|          like manner the good may be said to be not only the author
 648 Repub|          dignity and power. ~Glaucon said, with a ludicrous earnestness:
 649 Repub|         heaven, how amazing! ~Yes, I said, and the exaggeration may
 650 Repub|         there is anything more to be said about the similitude of
 651 Repub|       similitude of the sun. ~Yes, I said, there is a great deal more. ~
 652 Repub|        slight. ~I will do my best, I said; but I should think that
 653 Repub|              omitted. I hope not, he said. ~You have to Imagine, then,
 654 Repub|          understand your meaning, he said. ~Then I will try again;
 655 Repub|           their conclusion? ~Yes, he said, I know. ~And do you not
 656 Repub|             value. ~I understand, he said, that you are speaking of
 657 Repub|              conceived my meaning, I said; and now, corresponding
 658 Repub|      SOCRATES, GLAUCON.) ~AND now, I said, let me show in a figure
 659 Repub|              see. ~And do you see, I said, men passing along the wall
 660 Repub|          wall of the cave? ~True, he said; how could they see anything
 661 Repub|            see the shadows? ~Yes, he said. ~And if they were able
 662 Repub|              he replied. ~To them, I said, the truth would be literally
 663 Repub|              shown to him? ~True, he said. ~And suppose once more,
 664 Repub|              Not all in a moment, he said. ~He will require to grow
 665 Repub|              to behold? ~Clearly, he said, he would first see the
 666 Repub|         after their manner? ~Yes, he said, I think that he would rather
 667 Repub|        manner. ~Imagine once more, I said, such a one coming suddenly
 668 Repub|            darkness? ~To be sure, he said. ~And if there were a contest,
 669 Repub|              death. ~No question, he said. ~This entire allegory,
 670 Repub|              This entire allegory, I said, you may now append, dear
 671 Repub|              eye fixed. ~I agree, he said, as far as I am able to
 672 Repub|         understand you. ~Moreover, I said, you must not wonder that
 673 Repub|              into the den. ~That, he said, is a very just distinction. ~
 674 Repub|             from the truth? ~Yes, he said, such an art may be presumed. ~
 675 Repub|           cleverness? ~Very true, he said. ~But what if there had
 676 Repub|           now. ~Very likely. ~Yes, I said; and there is another thing
 677 Repub|           true, he replied. ~Then, I said, the business of us who
 678 Repub|           But is not this unjust? he said; ought we to give them a
 679 Repub|              forgotten, my friend, I said, the intention of the legislator,
 680 Repub|              up the State. ~True, he said, I had forgotten. ~Observe,
 681 Repub|            State. ~Yes, my friend, I said; and there lies the point.
 682 Repub|         other? ~Indeed, I do not, he said. ~And those who govern ought
 683 Repub|        darkness to light-as some are said to have ascended from the
 684 Repub|             replied. ~The process, I said, is not the turning over
 685 Repub|             athletes? ~Yes, that was said. ~Then this new kind of
 686 Repub|            former scheme? ~Music, he said, as you will remember, was
 687 Repub|             You are most accurate, I said, in your recollection; in
 688 Repub|               what remains? ~Well, I said, there may be nothing left
 689 Repub|             explain your meaning? he said. ~I will try, I said; and
 690 Repub|              he said. ~I will try, I said; and I wish you would share
 691 Repub|            one of them. ~Explain, he said. ~I mean to say that objects
 692 Repub|            are clearly referring, he said, to the manner in which
 693 Repub|              light and shade. ~No, I said, that is not at all my meaning. ~
 694 Repub|              True. ~And therefore, I said, as we might expect, there
 695 Repub|      intelligence. ~There is not, he said. ~But is this equally true
 696 Repub|              You are quite right, he said. ~And must not the soul
 697 Repub|            is heavy, light? ~Yes, he said, these intimations which
 698 Repub|             to be explained. ~Yes, I said, and in these perplexities
 699 Repub|            do not. ~I understand, he said, and agree with you. ~And
 700 Repub|          true being. ~And surely, he said, this occurs notably in
 701 Repub|       infinite in multitude? ~Yes, I said; and this being true of
 702 Repub|                That is excellent, he said. ~Yes, I said, and now having
 703 Repub|          excellent, he said. ~Yes, I said, and now having spoken of
 704 Repub|            have been? ~Very true, he said. ~And indeed, you will not
 705 Repub|             Exactly so. ~Clearly, he said, we are concerned with that
 706 Repub|              a geometrician. ~Yes, I said, but for that purpose a
 707 Repub|          means, to behold. ~True, he said. ~Then if geometry compels
 708 Repub|              science. ~Certainly, he said. ~Then must not a further
 709 Repub|             small. ~Of what kind? he said. ~There are the military
 710 Repub|     advantages of which you spoke, I said; and in all departments
 711 Repub|             has not. Yes, indeed, he said, there is an infinite difference
 712 Repub|          strongly inclined to it, he said; the observation of the
 713 Repub|              sailor. ~I am amused, I said, at your fear of the world,
 714 Repub|             What was the mistake? he said. ~After plane geometry,
 715 Repub|              After plane geometry, I said, we proceeded at once to
 716 Repub|         these subjects. ~Why, yes, I said, and for two reasons: in
 717 Repub|          emerge into light. ~Yes, he said, there is a remarkable charm
 718 Repub|              plane surfaces? ~Yes, I said. ~And you placed astronomy
 719 Repub|          motion of solids. ~True, he said. ~Then assuming that the
 720 Repub|               Everyone but myself, I said; to everyone else this may
 721 Repub|             back. ~I acknowledge, he said, the justice of your rebuke.
 722 Repub|        speaking? ~I will tell you, I said: The starry heaven which
 723 Repub|             of this before. ~Then, I said, in astronomy, as in geometry,
 724 Repub|              any real use. ~That, he said, is a work infinitely beyond
 725 Repub|         present astronomers. ~Yes, I said; and there are many other
 726 Repub|              suitable study? ~No, he said, not without thinking. ~
 727 Repub|         without thinking. ~Motion, I said, has many forms, and not
 728 Repub|           two? ~There is a second, I said, which is the counterpart
 729 Repub|              that be? ~The second, I said, would seem relatively to
 730 Repub|             he replied. ~But this, I said, is a laborious study, and
 731 Repub|            vain. ~Yes, by heaven! he said; and 'tis as good as a play
 732 Repub|          understanding. ~You mean, I said, those gentlemen who tease
 733 Repub|            and others not. ~That, he said, is a thing of more than
 734 Repub|               useless. Very true, he said. ~Now, when all these studies
 735 Repub|           work. ~What do you mean? I said; the prelude, or what? Do
 736 Repub|     dialectician? ~Assuredly not, he said; I have hardly ever known
 737 Repub|        supposed. ~And so, Glaucon, I said, we have at last arrived
 738 Repub|            the visible. ~Exactly, he said. ~Then this is the progress
 739 Repub|         final rest. ~Dear Glaucon, I said, you will not be able to
 740 Repub|             science? ~Impossible, he said. ~Then dialectic, and dialectic
 741 Repub|            consider? Why, indeed, he said, when any name will do which
 742 Repub|              far as I understand, he said, I agree. ~And do you also
 743 Repub|             And do you also agree, I said, in describing the dialectician
 744 Repub|           may in that degree also be said to fail in intelligence?
 745 Repub|              admit so much? ~Yes, he said; how can I deny it? ~And
 746 Repub|        answering questions? ~Yes, he said, you and I together will
 747 Repub|             further go? ~I agree, he said. ~But to whom we are to
 748 Repub|            clearly. ~You remember, I said, how the rulers were chosen
 749 Repub|        chosen before? ~Certainly, he said. ~The same natures must
 750 Repub|       require of him. ~Certainly, he said; he must have natural gifts. ~
 751 Repub|             lameness. ~Certainly, he said. ~And as to truth, I said,
 752 Repub|            said. ~And as to truth, I said, is not a soul equally to
 753 Repub|                That is very true, he said. ~All these things, then,
 754 Repub|        creditable. ~Certainly not, I said; and yet perhaps, in thus
 755 Repub|         respect? ~I had forgotten, I said, that we were not serious,
 756 Repub|             under a delusion when he said that a man when he grows
 757 Repub|              Then, my good friend, I said, do not use compulsion,
 758 Repub|             very rational notion, he said. ~Do you remember that the
 759 Repub|          practice may be followed, I said, in all these things -labors,
 760 Repub|              to true being. ~Yes, he said, that is the only kind of
 761 Repub|          takes lasting root. ~Yes, I said; and the capacity for such
 762 Repub|   dialectical. ~I agree with you, he said. ~These, I said, are the
 763 Repub|              you, he said. ~These, I said, are the points which you
 764 Repub|       caution? ~Do you not remark, I said, how great is the evil which
 765 Repub|           introduced? ~What evil? he said. ~The students of the art
 766 Repub|         lawlessness. ~Quite true, he said. ~Do you think that there
 767 Repub|            allowance? ~I want you, I said, by way of parallel, to
 768 Repub|             most excusable. ~Yes, he said; and, I may add, pitiable. ~
 769 Repub|             come near them. ~Yes, he said, there is nothing which
 770 Repub|             the world. ~Too true, he said. ~But when a man begins
 771 Repub|              pursuit. ~Very true, he said. ~And did we not make special
 772 Repub|          provision for this, when we said that the disciples of philosophy
 773 Repub|               Very true. ~Suppose, I said, the study of philosophy
 774 Repub|         faultless in beauty. ~Yes, I said, Glaucon, and of our governesses
 775 Repub|              There you are right, he said, since we have made them
 776 Repub|        things like the men. ~Well, I said, and you would agree (would
 777 Repub|             not?) that what has been said about the State and the
 778 Repub|            that nothing more need be said. ~
 779 Repub|           been acknowledged. ~Yes, I said; and we have further acknowledged
 780 Repub|            the whole State. ~True, I said; and now that this division
 781 Repub|        description of the State: you said that such a State was good,
 782 Repub|            of State and man. And you said further, that if this was
 783 Repub|              of the false forms, you said, as I remember, that there
 784 Repub|       arrived. ~Your recollection, I said, is most exact. ~Then, like
 785 Repub|             Yes, if I can, I will, I said. ~I shall particularly wish
 786 Repub|          speaking. ~That question, I said, is easily answered: the
 787 Repub|            constitution which can be said to have a distinct character.
 788 Repub|          among them. ~Do you know, I said, that governments vary as
 789 Repub|          things after them? ~Yes, he said, the States are as the men
 790 Repub|            suitable. ~First, then, I said, let us inquire how timocracy (
 791 Repub|             be moved. ~Very true, he said. ~In what way, then, will
 792 Repub|           answer truly. ~Why, yes, I said, of course they answer truly;
 793 Repub|             peculiarities. ~True, he said. ~In the honor given to
 794 Repub|              peculiar. ~Yes. ~Yes, I said; and men of this stamp will
 795 Repub|                That is most true, he said. ~And they are miserly because
 796 Repub|              music. ~Undoubtedly, he said, the form of government
 797 Repub|           Why, there is a mixture, I said; but one thing, and one
 798 Repub|              element. ~Assuredly, he said. ~Such is the origin and
 799 Repub|           what is he like? ~I think, said Adeimantus, that in the
 800 Repub|          friend Glaucon. ~Perhaps, I said, he may be like him in that
 801 Repub|             guardian. ~Who was that? said Adeimantus. ~Philosophy,
 802 Repub|           Adeimantus. ~Philosophy, I said, tempered with music, who
 803 Repub|           throughout life. ~Good, he said. ~Such, I said, is the timocratical
 804 Repub|              Good, he said. ~Such, I said, is the timocratical youth,
 805 Repub|            fond of rehearsing. ~Yes, said Adeimantus, they give us
 806 Repub|         themselves. ~And you know, I said, that the old servants also,
 807 Repub|      perfectly. ~Then we have now, I said, the second form of government
 808 Repub|     oligarchy arises? ~Yes. ~Well, I said, no eyes are required in
 809 Repub|             is established. ~Yes, he said; but what are the characteristics
 810 Repub|           speaking? ~First of all, I said, consider the nature of
 811 Repub|             include a city? ~Nay, he said, the case of a city is the
 812 Repub|           discreditable! ~And, as we said before, under such a constitution
 813 Repub|           are termed. ~Most true, he said. ~Clearly then, whenever
 814 Repub|      malefactors. ~Clearly. ~Well, I said, and in oligarchical States
 815 Repub|           not find paupers? ~Yes, he said; nearly everybody is a pauper
 816 Repub|              it. ~Of all changes, he said, there is none so speedy
 817 Repub|                And the avaricious, I said, is the oligarchical youth? ~
 818 Repub|         oligarchical youth? ~Yes, he said; at any rate the individual
 819 Repub|              a man of cultivation, I said. ~I imagine not, he said;
 820 Repub|             said. ~I imagine not, he said; had he been educated he
 821 Repub|           chief honor. ~Excellent! I said. Yet consider: Must we not
 822 Repub|              for judgment. ~That, he said, is our method. ~Well, I
 823 Repub|              is our method. ~Well, I said, and how does the change
 824 Repub|        abound in the State. ~Yes, he said, there are plenty of them-that
 825 Repub|             good for much"? ~Yes, he said, I am quite aware that this
 826 Repub|             elected by lot. ~Yes, he said, that is the nature of democracy,
 827 Repub|             be the man. ~Clearly, he said. ~In the first place, are
 828 Repub|              do what he likes? ~'Tis said so, he replied. ~And where
 829 Repub|          there being no necessity, I said, for you to govern in this
 830 Repub|              many a one. See, too, I said, the forgiving spirit of
 831 Repub|    foundation of the city-as when we said that, except in the case
 832 Repub|           her well. ~Consider now, I said, what manner of man the
 833 Repub|           into being. ~Very good, he said. ~Is not this the way-he
 834 Repub|          order is restored. ~Yes, he said, that sometimes happens. ~
 835 Repub|        fierce and numerous. ~Yes, he said, that is apt to be the way. ~
 836 Repub|      unnecessary pleasures. ~Yes, he said, the change in him is visible
 837 Repub|              equally. ~Very true, he said. ~Neither does he receive
 838 Repub|            good as another. ~Yes, he said; that is the way with him. ~
 839 Repub|            the way with him. ~Yes, I said, he lives from day to day
 840 Repub|        liberty and equality. ~Yes, I said; his life is motley and
 841 Repub|            Let that be his place, he said. ~Last of all comes the
 842 Repub|            consider. ~Quite true, he said. ~Say then, my friend, in
 843 Repub|           common occurrence. ~Yes, I said; and loyal citizens are
 844 Repub|             good as either. ~Yes, he said, that is the way. ~And these
 845 Repub|           the young. ~Quite true, he said. ~The last extreme of popular
 846 Repub|              take a country walk, he said, I often experience what
 847 Repub|             thing. ~And above all, I said, and as the result of all,
 848 Repub|              one over them. ~Yes, he said, I know it too well. ~Such,
 849 Repub|            well. ~Such, my friend, I said, is the fair and glorious
 850 Repub|        tyranny. ~Glorious indeed, he said. But what is the next step? ~
 851 Repub|             so, he replied. ~Well, I said, I meant to refer to the
 852 Repub|                Yes, by all means, he said. ~Then, in order that we
 853 Repub|              not suffer a word to be said on the other side; hence
 854 Repub|           the drones. ~Very true, he said. ~Then there is another
 855 Repub|              to the drones. ~Why, he said, there is little to be squeezed
 856 Repub|             pretty much the case, he said. ~The people are a third
 857 Repub|            in a democracy. ~True, he said; but then the multitude
 858 Repub|             And do they not share? I said. Do not their leaders deprive
 859 Repub|            themselves? ~Why, yes, he said, to that extent the people
 860 Repub|              he does what the man is said to do in the tale of the
 861 Repub|        tyrant? ~Inevitably. ~This, I said, is he who begins to make
 862 Repub|            assassinate him. ~Yes, he said, that is their usual way. ~
 863 Repub|             my friend, as the oracle said to Croesus, ~"By pebbly
 864 Repub|                 And quite right too, said he, for if he were, he would
 865 Repub|              absolute. ~No doubt, he said. ~And now let us consider
 866 Repub|           him is generated. ~Yes, he said, let us consider that. ~
 867 Repub|             everyone! ~Of course, he said. ~But when he has disposed
 868 Repub|     purgation of the State. ~Yes, he said, and a rare purgation. ~
 869 Repub|              rare purgation. ~Yes, I said, not the sort of purgation
 870 Repub|             a blessed alternative, I said: to be compelled to dwell
 871 Repub|           They will flock to him, he said, of their own accord, if
 872 Repub|            pays them. ~By the dog! I said, here are more drones, of
 873 Repub|            from every land. ~Yes, he said, there are. ~But will he
 874 Repub|          body-guard. ~To be sure, he said; and he will be able to
 875 Repub|           What a blessed creature, I said, must this tyrant be; he
 876 Repub|            trusted friends. ~Yes, he said; they are quite of his sort. ~
 877 Repub|           quite of his sort. ~Yes, I said, and these are the new citizens
 878 Repub|             his companions. ~Yes, he said, and he also praises tyranny
 879 Repub|          things of the same kind are said by him and by the other
 880 Repub|             poets. ~And therefore, I said, the tragic poets being
 881 Repub|       eulogists of tyranny. ~Yes, he said, those who have the wit
 882 Repub|   ever-changing army of his. ~If, he said, there are sacred treasures
 883 Repub|              fail? ~Why, clearly, he said, then he and his boon companions,
 884 Repub|             his companions? ~Yes, he said; they cannot help themselves. ~
 885 Repub|           associates. ~By heaven, he said, then the parent will discover
 886 Repub|           form of slavery. ~True, he said. ~Very well; and may we
 887 Repub|                Yes, quite enough, he said. ~
 888 Repub|     happiness or in misery? ~Yes, he said, he is the only one remaining. ~
 889 Repub|     remaining. ~There is, however, I said, a previous question which
 890 Repub|        always be confused. ~Well, he said, it is not too late to supply
 891 Repub|              omission. ~Very true, I said; and observe the point which
 892 Repub|            to commit. ~Most true, he said. ~But when a man's pulse
 893 Repub|            of the oligarch? ~Yes, he said; that was our view of him,
 894 Repub|             is so still. ~And now, I said, years will have passed
 895 Repub|    adequately describe him. ~Yes, he said, that is the only adequate
 896 Repub|        madness to the full. ~Yes, he said, that is the way in which
 897 Repub|              not wonder. ~Further, I said, has not a drunken man also
 898 Repub|            to tell me. ~I imagine, I said, at the next step in his
 899 Repub|           many. ~They are indeed, he said. ~His revenues, if he has
 900 Repub|      tyrannizing over them? ~Nay, he said, I should not feel at all
 901 Repub|      indispensable? ~Yes, indeed, he said; I believe that he would. ~
 902 Repub|            he would. ~Truly, then, I said, a tyrannical son is a blessing
 903 Repub|            of life? ~Yes, indeed, he said. ~And if there are only
 904 Repub|           are few in number. ~Yes, I said; but small and great are
 905 Repub|        create their tyrant. ~Yes, he said, and he will be the most
 906 Repub|          notion of justice? ~Yes, he said, and we were perfectly right. ~
 907 Repub|            then, sum up in a word, I said, the character of the worst
 908 Repub|           becomes. ~That is certain, said Glaucon, taking his turn
 909 Repub|             men in general? ~Yes, he said, inevitably. ~And must not
 910 Repub|            the opposite extremes, he said, for one is the very best
 911 Repub|           There can be no mistake, I said, as to which is which, and
 912 Repub|           other men? ~That again, he said, is a very fair proposal. ~
 913 Repub|            or enslaved? ~No city, he said, can be more completely
 914 Repub|            in such a State? ~Yes, he said, I see that there are-a
 915 Repub|             man is like the State, I said, must not the same rule
 916 Repub|         States? ~And I was right, he said. ~Certainly, I said. And
 917 Repub|               he said. ~Certainly, I said. And when you see the same
 918 Repub|      miserable of all men. ~There, I said, I think that you are beginning
 919 Repub|          tyrant. ~From what has been said, I gather that you are right. ~
 920 Repub|             greatest. ~Very true, he said. ~Let me then offer you
 921 Repub|            individual. ~Very true, I said. But imagine one of these
 922 Repub|              by his slaves? ~Yes, he said, he will be in the utmost
 923 Repub|           his own servants. ~Yes, he said, that will be the only way
 924 Repub|             interest. ~Very true, he said. ~And amid evils such as
 925 Repub|             with other men. ~Yes, he said, the similitude is most
 926 Repub|    resemblance holds? ~Very true, he said. ~Moreover, as we were saying
 927 Repub|            your words. Come, then, I said, and as the general umpire
 928 Repub|            proclamation yourself, he said. ~And shall I add, "whether
 929 Repub|              be added. ~Then this, I said, will be our first proof;
 930 Repub|         powers. ~How do you mean? he said. ~There is one principle
 931 Repub|             money. ~That is true, he said. ~If we were to say that
 932 Repub|           gold and silver? ~True, he said. ~And the lover of honor-what
 933 Repub|             And are we to suppose, I said, that the philosopher sets
 934 Repub|             I cannot myself tell, he said. ~Well, but what ought to
 935 Repub|         There cannot be a better, he said. ~Then, I said, reflect.
 936 Repub|            better, he said. ~Then, I said, reflect. Of the three individuals,
 937 Repub|        pleasures of wisdom? ~Nay, he said, all three are honored in
 938 Repub|            life. ~Unquestionably, he said, the wise man speaks with
 939 Repub|              of gain? ~Very true, he said. ~Twice in succession, then,
 940 Repub|           were ill. ~Yes, I know, he said. ~And when persons are suffering
 941 Repub|          greatest pleasure? ~Yes, he said; at the time they are pleased
 942 Repub|              painful? ~Doubtless, he said. ~Then the intermediate
 943 Repub|         pleasure. ~What are they, he said, and where shall I find
 944 Repub|          behind them. ~Most true, he said. ~Let us not, then, be induced
 945 Repub|            hear. ~You would allow, I said, that there is in nature
 946 Repub|         upper world? ~To be sure, he said; how can he think otherwise? ~
 947 Repub|      incontinent. ~Verily, Socrates, said Glaucon, you describe the
 948 Repub|            reason or sense? ~Yes, he said, the same will happen with
 949 Repub|            do you mean? ~I assume, I said, that the tyrant is in the
 950 Repub|            Yet a true calculation, I said, and a number which nearly
 951 Repub|           months and years. ~Yes, he said, human life is certainly
 952 Repub|       Immeasurably greater. ~Well, I said, and now having arrived
 953 Repub|              be just? ~Yes, that was said. Now, then, having determined
 954 Repub|           more different natures are said to grow into one. ~There
 955 Repub|            grow into one. ~There are said to have been such unions. ~
 956 Repub|           than the second. ~That, he said, is an easier task; and
 957 Repub|         creature. I have done so, he said. ~And now, to him who maintains
 958 Repub|              another. ~Certainly, he said; that is what the approver
 959 Repub|           and with himself. ~Yes, he said, that is quite what the
 960 Repub|         compass a worse ruin." ~Yes, said Glaucon, far worse-I will
 961 Repub|           become a monkey? ~True, he said. ~And why are mean employments
 962 Repub|        friends and equals. ~True, he said. ~And this is clearly seen
 963 Repub|              go their ways. ~Yes, he said, the purpose of the law
 964 Repub|             the body. ~Certainly, he said. ~To this nobler purpose
 965 Repub|       disregard others? ~Clearly, he said. ~In the next place, he
 966 Repub|             harm? ~Certainly not, he said. ~He will look at the city
 967 Repub|           any other. ~I think so, he said. ~
 968 Repub|            speak out. ~Very good, he said. ~Listen to me, then, or,
 969 Repub|           the keener. ~Very true, he said; but in your presence, even
 970 Repub|              in the mirror. ~Yes, he said; but they would be appearances
 971 Repub|      appearances only. ~Very good, I said, you are coming to the point
 972 Repub|              creates a bed? ~Yes, he said, but not a real bed. ~And
 973 Repub|           two others. ~Very true, he said. ~God knew this, and he
 974 Repub|             to the bed? ~I think, he said, that we may fairly designate
 975 Repub|            the others make. ~Good, I said; then you call him who is
 976 Repub|             imitator? ~Certainly, he said. ~And the tragic poet is
 977 Repub|              of all things. ~Yes, he said, the difference is only
 978 Repub|    appearance. ~Then the imitator, I said, is a long way off the truth,
 979 Repub|              well? ~The question, he said, should by all means be
 980 Repub|              theme of them. ~Yes, he said, that would be to him a
 981 Repub|           honor and profit. ~Then, I said, we must put a question
 982 Repub|            might name? ~I think not, said Glaucon; not even the Homerids
 983 Repub|             his stupidity, if, as is said, Homer was greatly neglected
 984 Repub|             words and phrases may be said to lay on the colors of
 985 Repub|            in simple prose. ~Yes, he said. ~They are like faces which
 986 Repub|             seeking to arrive when I said that painting or drawing,
 987 Repub|              poetry. ~Do not rely, I said, on a probability derived
 988 Repub|                And we were right, he said. ~Yes, I said, thus far
 989 Repub|              right, he said. ~Yes, I said, thus far we were right;
 990 Repub|              sorrow? ~The latter, he said, is the truer statement. ~
 991 Repub|            the healing art. ~Yes, he said, that is the true way of
 992 Repub|          attacks of fortune. ~Yes, I said; and the higher principle
 993 Repub|              a woman. ~Very true, he said. ~Now can we be right in
 994 Repub|              his own person? ~No, he said, that is certainly not reasonable. ~
 995 Repub|              not reasonable. ~Nay, I said, quite reasonable from one
 996 Repub|            view? ~If you consider, I said, that when in misfortune
 997 Repub|             at home. ~Quite true, he said. ~And the same may be said
 998 Repub|           said. ~And the same may be said of lust and anger and all
 999 Repub|                Therefore, Glaucon, I said, whenever you meet with
1000 Repub|                That is most true, he said. ~And now since we have