Dialogue

  1 Intro|      philosophers, of whom we may say, without offence, that they
  2 Intro|           does not really mean to say that the Sophist or the
  3 Intro|         thousands, as Homer would say (mala murioi), tell falsehoods
  4 Intro|        The common logicians would say that the ‘not-just,’ ‘not-beautiful,’
  5 Intro|         an undefined positive. To say that ‘not-just’ has no more
  6 Intro|        not-honourable’—that is to say, that the two cannot in
  7 Intro|     disguise, who, as Homer would say, has come to earth that
  8 Intro|      logical experiment; shall we say an angler? ‘Very good.’~
  9 Intro|          all things.’ You mean to say that he seems to have a
 10 Intro|          Suppose a person were to say, not that he would dispute
 11 Intro|         expressed; for how can we say ‘is,’ ‘are not,’ without
 12 Intro|          please, but he will only say, ‘And pray, what is an image?’
 13 Intro|         in a mirror’; and he will say, ‘Let us shut our eyes and
 14 Intro|         to give him up? ‘I should say, certainly not.’ Then I
 15 Intro|         are right or not, who can say? But one thing we can say—
 16 Intro|         say? But one thing we can say—that they went on their
 17 Intro|          dualist philosophers, we say to them: Is being a third
 18 Intro|    patrons of the one. To them we say: Are being and one two different
 19 Intro|        being are one, or shall we say that being is not a whole?
 20 Intro|      injustice. The soul, as they say, has a kind of body, but
 21 Intro| distinctions. ‘Sons of earth,’ we say to them, ‘if both visible
 22 Intro|      friends of ideas: to them we say, ‘You distinguish becoming
 23 Intro|        stability. And as children say entreatingly, ‘Give us both,’
 24 Intro|          who affirms this mean to say that motion is rest, or
 25 Intro|        anything of anything; they say that good is good, and man
 26 Intro|          realities. We may almost say that whatever came into
 27 Intro|          life of man. It seems to say to us, ‘The world is a vast
 28 Intro|       never pass away; but can we say that they have the same
 29 Intro|       which we require. We cannot say that physical science, which
 30 Intro|            Neither are we able to say why of the common forms
 31  Soph|           name?~THEODORUS: I dare say that the Stranger will not
 32  Soph|         the question. What do you say, Stranger?~STRANGER: I am
 33  Soph|          shall only beg of you to say whether you like and are
 34  Soph|          would rather have my own say.~SOCRATES: Any one of the
 35  Soph|         any larger thing? Shall I say an angler? He is familiar
 36  Soph|           But if you like you may say that there are no tame animals,
 37  Soph|        not among them; or you may say that man is a tame animal
 38  Soph|      prefer.~THEAETETUS: I should say, Stranger, that man is a
 39  Soph|         do so.~STRANGER: I should say that the habit which leads
 40  Soph|   disputation, it is your turn to say.~THEAETETUS: There is only
 41  Soph|     caught with one hand, as they say!~THEAETETUS: Then you must
 42  Soph|      listen to what I am going to say, and try to divide further
 43  Soph|        and glance aside, shall we say that this is the effect
 44  Soph|          of instruction, shall we say that there is one or many
 45  Soph|          this art? I am afraid to say the Sophists.~THEAETETUS:
 46  Soph|           Sophists are the men. I say this provisionally, for
 47  Soph|         STRANGER: And what do you say of the visible things in
 48  Soph|        one would have anything to say to them, if they did not
 49  Soph|       what the craftsman ought to say in answer to any question
 50  Soph|     STRANGER: Suppose a person to say that he will make you and
 51  Soph|     animals.~STRANGER: Yes; and I say that he is also the maker
 52  Soph|          not be, or how a man can say a thing which is not true,
 53  Soph|  perplexing question. Can any one say or think that falsehood
 54  Soph|      STRANGER: Very good; and now say, do we venture to utter
 55  Soph|           who says something must say some one thing?~THEAETETUS:
 56  Soph|           singular (ti) you would say is the sign of one, some
 57  Soph|         says ‘not something’ must say absolutely nothing.~THEAETETUS:
 58  Soph|           the other hand, when we say ‘what is not,’ do we not
 59  Soph|           not-being as one; for I say ‘not-being.’ Do you understand?~
 60  Soph|   Certainly.~STRANGER: And yet we say that, strictly speaking,
 61  Soph|       thus discomfited.~STRANGER: Say no more of ourselves; but
 62  Soph|         true.~STRANGER: And if we say to him that he professes
 63  Soph|        him an image-maker he will say, ‘Pray what do you mean
 64  Soph|          of sight at all; he will say that he is asking about
 65  Soph|           really real, if, as you say, not true?~THEAETETUS: Nay,
 66  Soph|      sense.~STRANGER: You mean to say, not in a true sense?~THEAETETUS:
 67  Soph|     danger lie?~STRANGER: When we say that he deceives us with
 68  Soph|  Certainly.~STRANGER: You mean to say that false opinion thinks
 69  Soph|     THEAETETUS: Of course he will say that we are contradicting
 70  Soph|           Certainly not, I should say, if we can get the slightest
 71  Soph|         Yes, a blind man, as they say, might see that, and, unless
 72  Soph|            STRANGER: You heard me say what I have always felt
 73  Soph|           about them.~THEAETETUS: Say more distinctly what you
 74  Soph|         in our part of the world, say that all things are many
 75  Soph|       principles is safer, and to say that being is one and many,
 76  Soph|         mean?~STRANGER: I mean to say, that when they talk of
 77  Soph|          both.~THEAETETUS: I dare say.~STRANGER: And the same
 78  Soph| interrogate them. ‘Come,’ we will say, ‘Ye, who affirm that hot
 79  Soph|         what do you mean when you say that both and each of them “
 80  Soph|            For clearly you cannot say that one of the two principles
 81  Soph|           this question: One, you say, alone is? ‘Yes,’ they will
 82  Soph|        thing will be compelled to say that it is the name of nothing,
 83  Soph|          STRANGER: And would they say that the whole is other
 84  Soph|          would, and they actually say so.~STRANGER: If being is
 85  Soph|    understand.~STRANGER: Shall we say that being is one and a
 86  Soph|   attribute of unity? Or shall we say that being is not a whole
 87  Soph|        Agreed.~STRANGER: Let them say whether they would admit
 88  Soph|          do.~STRANGER: Meaning to say that the soul is something
 89  Soph|         STRANGER: And do they not say that one soul is just, and
 90  Soph|            THEAETETUS: They would say that hardly any of them
 91  Soph|          STRANGER: And would they say that they are corporeal?~
 92  Soph|         is enough; they must then say what that nature is which
 93  Soph|        their mind’s eye when they say of both of them that they ‘
 94  Soph|        will.~STRANGER: To them we say—You would distinguish essence
 95  Soph|     STRANGER: Well, fair sirs, we say to them, what is this participation,
 96  Soph|     STRANGER: They deny this, and say that the power of doing
 97  Soph|           some truth in what they say?~STRANGER: Yes; but our
 98  Soph|         can be no doubt that they say so.~STRANGER: And is knowing
 99  Soph|      share in either; for if they say anything else, they will
100  Soph|            STRANGER: But shall we say that has mind and not life?~
101  Soph|   possible?~STRANGER: Or shall we say that both inhere in perfect
102  Soph|           the notion of those who say that the whole is at rest,
103  Soph|     universal motion. As children say entreatingly ‘Give us both,’
104  Soph|           STRANGER: Would you not say that rest and motion are
105  Soph|       STRANGER: And yet you would say that both and either of
106  Soph|          them are, do you mean to say that both or either of them
107  Soph|        are both at rest, when you say that they are?~THEAETETUS:
108  Soph|         some third thing, when we say that rest and motion are.~
109  Soph|       being?~THEAETETUS: I should say, Stranger, that we are in
110  Soph|          and good is good. I dare say that you have met with persons
111  Soph|       first let us assume them to say that nothing is capable
112  Soph|           STRANGER: Should we not say that the division according
113  Soph|            That is what we should say.~STRANGER: Then, surely,
114  Soph|       than rest: what else can we say?~THEAETETUS: It is so.~STRANGER:
115  Soph|          admit, and not object to say, that motion is the same
116  Soph|         proceed, then. May we not say that motion is other than
117  Soph|           the next step? Shall we say that motion is other than
118  Soph|         like manner, we may truly say that they are not; and again,
119  Soph|      There is.~STRANGER: Shall we say that this has or has not
120  Soph|           is, if I may venture to say so, as truly essence as
121  Soph|        any other class? May I not say with confidence that not-being
122  Soph|         STRANGER: Let not any one say, then, that while affirming
123  Soph|         as he cannot, he too must say, as we are saying, that
124  Soph|          find something better to say; or if he sees a puzzle,
125  Soph|      possible, for to think or to say what is not—is falsehood,
126  Soph|   direction, but he will probably say that some ideas partake
127  Soph|          him, because, as he will say, opinion and language do
128  Soph|     STRANGER: I understand you to say that words which have a
129  Soph|            But what I intended to say was, that a mere succession
130  Soph|     STRANGER: Or, again, when you say ‘lion,’ ‘stag,’ ‘horse,’
131  Soph|           nouns; and therefore we say that he discourses, and
132  Soph|   THEAETETUS: True.~STRANGER: And say that things are real of
133  Soph|       Sophist.~THEAETETUS: We did say so.~STRANGER: And our heads
134  Soph|           or non-fusile, shall we say that they come into existence—
135  Soph|  unintelligent cause. Or shall we say that they are created by
136  Soph|           God?~THEAETETUS: I dare say that, owing to my youth,
137  Soph|         that belief which, as you say, attracts you, I will not
138  Soph|         mean?~STRANGER: I mean to say that you should make a vertical
139  Soph|       STRANGER: And what shall we say of human art? Do we not
140  Soph|      THEAETETUS: Let us do as you say—assign a sphere to the one
141  Soph|      STRANGER: And what would you say of the figure or form of
142  Soph|     himself.~THEAETETUS: What you say is most true.~STRANGER:
143  Soph|       this blood and lineage will say the very truth.~THEAETETUS: