Dialogue

  1 Intro|       dialogue, is a disciple of Theodorus, the great geometrician,
  2 Intro|        the praises of his master Theodorus. He is a youthful Socrates,
  3 Intro|     Symposium. The picture which Theodorus gives of his courage and
  4 Intro|    interest of the introduction.~Theodorus, the geometrician, had once
  5 Intro|         as the dialectician, and Theodorus could not therefore have
  6 Intro|        his ‘homo mensura,’ which Theodorus also considers to be ‘really
  7 Intro|         and that Theaetetus, and Theodorus, the geometrician of Cyrene,
  8 Intro|        Socrates begins by asking Theodorus whether, in his visit to
  9 Intro|          rich. He is informed by Theodorus that the youth is named
 10 Intro|        image of my ugly self, as Theodorus declares. Not that his remark
 11 Intro|   similar trap which is laid for Theodorus). ‘Then, Theaetetus, you
 12 Intro|         have to be examined, for Theodorus has been praising you in
 13 Intro|   already given, or I shall make Theodorus repeat your praises, and
 14 Intro|     asking him what he learns of Theodorus. He is himself anxious to
 15 Intro|     which he wants Theaetetus or Theodorus (or whichever of the company
 16 Intro|       asks, ‘What is knowledge?’ Theodorus is too old to answer questions,
 17 Intro|   knowledge is what he learns of Theodorus, i.e. geometry and arithmetic;
 18 Intro|         will not be angry,’ says Theodorus; ‘he is very good-natured.
 19 Intro|        oracles out of his book.’~Theodorus thinks that Socrates is
 20 Intro|           And yet surely you and Theodorus had better reflect whether
 21 Intro|     probability is a safe guide. Theodorus would be a bad geometrician
 22 Intro|   different. But he is dead, and Theodorus, whom he left guardian of
 23 Intro|       zealous in defending him.’~Theodorus objects that Callias is
 24 Intro|        verbal criticisms.’~Such, Theodorus, is the very slight help
 25 Intro|          but not wiser than you, Theodorus.~‘The rule of the Spartan
 26 Intro|     himself nor to anybody else.~Theodorus is inclined to think that
 27 Intro|       evil among mankind.’~Evil, Theodorus, must ever remain in this
 28 Intro|          principles.’ I suppose, Theodorus, that you have never seen
 29 Intro|         close of the discussion, Theodorus claims to be released from
 30 Intro|    without knowledge. I may know Theodorus and Theaetetus and not see
 31 Intro|        1st, when knowing you and Theodorus, and having the impression
 32 Intro|        same syllable in the name Theodorus, and in learning to read
 33 Intro|     shall hope to see you again, Theodorus, at this place.~...~I. The
 34 Intro|     Protagoras applies the term. Theodorus justly charges Socrates
 35  Thea|          THE DIALOGUE: Socrates, Theodorus, Theaetetus.~Euclid and
 36  Thea|         he mentioned—these were, Theodorus the geometrician (of Cyrene),
 37  Thea|      enough about the Cyrenians, Theodorus, I would ask you whether
 38  Thea|        who is good for anything.~THEODORUS: Yes, Socrates, I have become
 39  Thea|      good news; whose son is he?~THEODORUS: The name of his father
 40  Thea|          a considerable fortune.~THEODORUS: Theaetetus, Socrates, is
 41  Thea|       him to come and sit by me.~THEODORUS: I will. Come hither, Theaetetus,
 42  Thea|         myself in your face, for Theodorus says that we are alike;
 43  Thea|         should.~SOCRATES: And is Theodorus a painter?~THEAETETUS: I
 44  Thea|          exhibit; since although Theodorus has praised many a citizen
 45  Thea|          in jest?~SOCRATES: Nay, Theodorus is not given to jesting;
 46  Thea|         to ask what you learn of Theodorus: something of geometry,
 47  Thea|          there no reply? I hope, Theodorus, that I am not betrayed
 48  Thea|        be friendly and sociable.~THEODORUS: The reverse of rudeness,
 49  Thea|       you hear, Theaetetus, what Theodorus says? The philosopher, whom
 50  Thea|      sciences which I learn from Theodorus— geometry, and those which
 51  Thea|          Theaetetus?~THEAETETUS: Theodorus was writing out for us something
 52  Thea|     fully justify the praises of Theodorus, and that he will not be
 53  Thea|    appear to want; and therefore Theodorus is a deceiver after all.~
 54  Thea|      good cheer; do not say that Theodorus was mistaken about you,
 55  Thea|         my dear Theaetetus, that Theodorus had a true insight into
 56  Thea|       take away your first-born?~THEODORUS: Theaetetus will not be
 57  Thea|        the truth?~SOCRATES: You, Theodorus, are a lover of theories,
 58  Thea| something from our young friend.~THEODORUS: Do as you say, Socrates;
 59  Thea|      SOCRATES: Shall I tell you, Theodorus, what amazes me in your
 60  Thea|         acquaintance Protagoras?~THEODORUS: What is it?~SOCRATES: I
 61  Thea|          the shrine of his book.~THEODORUS: He was a friend of mine,
 62  Thea|          Lacedaemonian palestra, Theodorus, would you have a right
 63  Thea|      judging of your own person?~THEODORUS: Why not, Socrates, if they
 64  Thea|  SOCRATES: Your will is my will, Theodorus, as the proverbial philosophers
 65  Thea|           and yet surely you and Theodorus had better reflect whether
 66  Thea|           SOCRATES: Then you and Theodorus mean to say that we must
 67  Thea|           and of whom our friend Theodorus is one, are unwilling to
 68  Thea|    myself, and see justice done?~THEODORUS: Not I, Socrates, but rather
 69  Thea|        him.~SOCRATES: Very good, Theodorus; you shall see how I will
 70  Thea|         to you or to Theaetetus?~THEODORUS: To both of us, and let
 71  Thea|        know that which he knows?~THEODORUS: How shall we answer, Theaetetus?~
 72  Thea| perplexity to one another. Such, Theodorus, is the very slight help
 73  Thea|         far more gloriose style.~THEODORUS: You are jesting, Socrates;
 74  Thea|      that we made a joke of him.~THEODORUS: How could I fail to observe
 75  Thea|          shall we do as he says?~THEODORUS: By all means.~SOCRATES:
 76  Thea|        are making fun with boys.~THEODORUS: Well, but is not Theaetetus
 77  Thea|      long beards?~SOCRATES: Yes, Theodorus, but not better than you;
 78  Thea|          supposed to excel them.~THEODORUS: He who is sitting by you,
 79  Thea|       argument.~SOCRATES: There, Theodorus, you have hit off precisely
 80  Thea|     yourself good as well as me.~THEODORUS: I consent; lead me whither
 81  Thea|  reproach of talking childishly.~THEODORUS: I will do my best to avoid
 82  Thea|        the wise excelled others.~THEODORUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: Had
 83  Thea|      great deal may be at stake?~THEODORUS: True.~SOCRATES: Then let
 84  Thea|          the basis of agreement.~THEODORUS: In what way?~SOCRATES:
 85  Thea|      seems to a man, is to him.’~THEODORUS: Yes, so he says.~SOCRATES:
 86  Thea|      least in their own opinion.~THEODORUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And
 87  Thea|   ignorance to be false opinion.~THEODORUS: Exactly.~SOCRATES: How
 88  Thea|    sometimes false. For tell me, Theodorus, do you suppose that you
 89  Thea|         mistaken in his opinion?~THEODORUS: The thing is incredible,
 90  Thea|       the measure of all things.~THEODORUS: How so?~SOCRATES: Why,
 91  Thea|          that you judge falsely?~THEODORUS: Yes, indeed, Socrates,
 92  Thea|         the ten thousand others?~THEODORUS: No other inference seems
 93  Thea|        is more untrue than true.~THEODORUS: That would follow if the
 94  Thea|    opinions of all men are true.~THEODORUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And
 95  Thea|         think him false is true?~THEODORUS: Of course.~SOCRATES: Whereas
 96  Thea|         that they speak falsely?~THEODORUS: They do not.~SOCRATES:
 97  Thea|       this opinion is also true.~THEODORUS: Clearly.~SOCRATES: Then
 98  Thea|          learned—am I not right?~THEODORUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And the
 99  Thea|         himself to any one else?~THEODORUS: I think, Socrates, that
100  Thea|       the understandings of men.~THEODORUS: In that opinion I quite
101  Thea|         them to cure themselves.~THEODORUS: I quite agree.~SOCRATES:
102  Thea|      Here arises a new question, Theodorus, which threatens to be more
103  Thea|      more serious than the last.~THEODORUS: Well, Socrates, we have
104  Thea|      court. How natural is this!~THEODORUS: What do you mean?~SOCRATES:
105  Thea|         breeding unlike a slave.~THEODORUS: In what is the difference
106  Thea|      wisdom. Such is the lawyer, Theodorus. Will you have the companion
107  Thea|       digression which we claim.~THEODORUS: Nay, Socrates, not until
108  Thea|  anything which is within reach.~THEODORUS: What do you mean, Socrates?~
109  Thea|      will illustrate my meaning, Theodorus, by the jest which the clever
110  Thea|          that you understand me, Theodorus?~THEODORUS: I do, and what
111  Thea|        understand me, Theodorus?~THEODORUS: I do, and what you say
112  Thea|       him, and always at a loss.~THEODORUS: That is very true, Socrates.~
113  Thea|          are the two characters, Theodorus: the one of the freeman,
114  Thea|        or men blessed of heaven.~THEODORUS: If you could only persuade
115  Thea|      among men.~SOCRATES: Evils, Theodorus, can never pass away; for
116  Thea|         which cannot be escaped.~THEODORUS: What is that?~SOCRATES:
117  Thea| listening to the talk of idiots.~THEODORUS: Very true, Socrates.~SOCRATES:
118  Thea|      please, we will now return.~THEODORUS: For my part, Socrates,
119  Thea|         a mockery, would it not?~THEODORUS: Certainly it would.~SOCRATES:
120  Thea|     contemplated under the name.~THEODORUS: Right.~SOCRATES: Whatever
121  Thea|  legislation have any other aim?~THEODORUS: Certainly not.~SOCRATES:
122  Thea|       not mistakes often happen?~THEODORUS: Yes, I think that there
123  Thea|      other words, is the future.~THEODORUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: Suppose
124  Thea|        to himself. Is it not so?~THEODORUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And do you
125  Thea|        the physician’s judgment?~THEODORUS: How ludicrous!~SOCRATES:
126  Thea|   gathered than the harp-player?~THEODORUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And
127  Thea|       harmonious or the reverse?~THEODORUS: Of course.~SOCRATES: And
128  Thea|        us than the ordinary man?~THEODORUS: Certainly, Socrates, he
129  Thea|     every one could for himself?~THEODORUS: Who indeed?~SOCRATES: And
130  Thea|         their highest interests?~THEODORUS: Quite true.~SOCRATES: Then
131  Thea|     being a measure of anything.~THEODORUS: That is the best refutation
132  Thea|   SOCRATES: There are many ways, Theodorus, in which the doctrine that
133  Thea|       are combination not a few.~THEODORUS: No small, war, indeed,
134  Thea|          the more bound, my dear Theodorus, to examine the question
135  Thea|         set forth by themselves.~THEODORUS: Certainly we are. About
136  Thea| everywhere.~SOCRATES: I suppose, Theodorus, that you have only seen
137  Thea|         to make like themselves.~THEODORUS: Disciples! my good sir,
138  Thea| forgotten the opposite doctrine, Theodorus,~‘Alone Being remains unmoved,
139  Thea|        ancient and famous men. O Theodorus, do you think that there
140  Thea|          the danger is so great?~THEODORUS: Nay, Socrates, not to examine
141  Thea|      that what is called motion?~THEODORUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: Here then
142  Thea|          motion of another kind?~THEODORUS: I think so.~SOCRATES: Say
143  Thea|           and ‘motion in place.’~THEODORUS: You are right.~SOCRATES:
144  Thea|         and another in one only?~THEODORUS: Indeed, I do not know what
145  Thea|          all things are at rest.~THEODORUS: To be sure.~SOCRATES: And
146  Thea|       have every sort of motion?~THEODORUS: Most true.~SOCRATES: Consider
147  Thea|        percipient. You remember?~THEODORUS: Of course.~SOCRATES: We
148  Thea|       things in motion and flux?~THEODORUS: Yes, they will reply.~SOCRATES:
149  Thea|      place and are also changed?~THEODORUS: Of course, if the motion
150  Thea|          are in motion and flux?~THEODORUS: Exactly.~SOCRATES: But
151  Thea|          be rightly used at all?~THEODORUS: How is that possible, Socrates,
152  Thea|       act of seeing and hearing?~THEODORUS: Certainly not, if all things
153  Thea|         of every kind of motion?~THEODORUS: Certainly not.~SOCRATES:
154  Thea|    Theaetetus and I were saying.~THEODORUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: Then
155  Thea|      than what is not knowledge?~THEODORUS: I suppose not.~SOCRATES:
156  Thea|        words expressive of rest.~THEODORUS: Quite true.~SOCRATES: Yes,
157  Thea|       Quite true.~SOCRATES: Yes, Theodorus, except in saying ‘thus’
158  Thea|         is perfectly indefinite.~THEODORUS: Yes, that is a manner of
159  Thea|          home.~SOCRATES: And so, Theodorus, we have got rid of your
160  Thea|          convince us that it is.~THEODORUS: Very good, Socrates; and
161  Thea|      agreement.~THEAETETUS: Not, Theodorus, until you and Socrates
162  Thea|           as you were proposing.~THEODORUS: You, Theaetetus, who are
163  Thea|      about the doctrine of rest.~THEODORUS: Invite Socrates to an argument—
164  Thea|          SOCRATES: Nevertheless, Theodorus, I am afraid that I shall
165  Thea|       the request of Theaetetus.~THEODORUS: Not comply! for what reason?~
166  Thea|     Theaetetus, and not ugly, as Theodorus was saying; for he who utters
167  Thea|       doing so. Were not you and Theodorus just now remarking very
168  Thea|      once more, then:—I, knowing Theodorus, and remembering in my own
169  Thea|           Socrates can recognize Theodorus and Theaetetus, but he sees
170  Thea|          mind that Theaetetus is Theodorus. Am I not right?~THEAETETUS:
171  Thea|      false opinion about you and Theodorus, either when I know both
172  Thea|         is, when knowing you and Theodorus, and having on the waxen
173  Thea|      distinguish Theaetetus from Theodorus, or from some outer barbarian?~
174  Thea|   indictment. To-morrow morning, Theodorus, I shall hope to see you