Dialogue

  1 Intro|            ignorance on the part of Socrates, also bear the stamp of
  2 Intro|    dialogues, in which the original Socrates is not yet Platonized. Had
  3 Intro|     reappear, including the younger Socrates, whose name is just mentioned
  4 Intro|           the theory of rest, which Socrates has declined to consider,
  5 Intro|           meeting of Parmenides and Socrates (Theaet., Soph.); and (4)
  6 Intro|       residence of Plato at Megara. Socrates disclaims the character
  7 Intro|         shortly before the death of Socrates. At the time of his own
  8 Intro|        little impairs the beauty of Socrates’ remark, that ‘he would
  9 Intro|   illustrating the personal life of Socrates. The Philebus, too, may
 10 Intro|           famous conversation which Socrates had with him when he was
 11 Intro|            correcting the copy from Socrates’ own mouth. The narrative,
 12 Intro|         Theodorus. He is a youthful Socrates, and exhibits the same contrast
 13 Intro|           as the argument proceeds. Socrates takes an evident delight
 14 Intro|           speak, but, encouraged by Socrates, he rises to the occasion,
 15 Intro|         ready to follow the lead of Socrates, and to enter into each
 16 Intro|       herself, and with the help of Socrates is conducted from a theory
 17 Intro|          over, first, as a pupil of Socrates, and then of Plato, he is
 18 Intro|              He is too old to learn Socrates’ game of question and answer,
 19 Intro|       follow. The mathematician, as Socrates says in the Republic, is
 20 Intro|    acceptance of the noble words of Socrates, are noticeable traits of
 21 Intro|            traits of character.~The Socrates of the Theaetetus is the
 22 Intro|       Theaetetus is the same as the Socrates of the earlier dialogues.
 23 Intro|    accordance with the character of Socrates as he is described in the
 24 Intro| characteristic which he shares with Socrates, and the man-midwifery of
 25 Intro|            and the man-midwifery of Socrates, are not forgotten in the
 26 Intro|        argument is assigned, not to Socrates, but to an Eleatic stranger;
 27 Intro|            turn truly declares that Socrates has got a great deal more
 28 Intro|           him than ever was in him. Socrates is never weary of working
 29 Intro|              That which is given by Socrates is quite sufficient, viz.
 30 Intro|           making his meaning plain, Socrates proceeds to analyze (1)
 31 Intro|             Plato, as they have the Socrates of Plato, with the real
 32 Intro|             expressly identified by Socrates with the other statement,
 33 Intro|             ad absurdum’ devised by Socrates for his ‘homo mensura,’
 34 Intro|             truth is only spoken by Socrates, who is never guilty of
 35 Intro|          sometimes in the right and Socrates in the wrong. Like the hero
 36 Intro|        Protagoras, rather than with Socrates, in the dialogue which is
 37 Intro|              we cannot tell how far Socrates is serious; for the Socratic
 38 Intro|          superior of the invincible Socrates in argument (except in the
 39 Intro|    confusion caused by the irony of Socrates, who, if he is true to his
 40 Intro|         contemporaries of Plato and Socrates were vainly trying to find
 41 Intro|            desirable in the eyes of Socrates and Plato. And besides these,
 42 Intro|         from him, I remembered that Socrates had seen him when he was
 43 Intro|             been; how like all that Socrates said! And could you repeat
 44 Intro|       filled up at leisure, and got Socrates to correct them from time
 45 Intro|           are the persons with whom Socrates is conversing.’~Socrates
 46 Intro|            Socrates is conversing.’~Socrates begins by asking Theodorus
 47 Intro|       distinction in science. ‘Yes, Socrates, there is one very remarkable
 48 Intro|            entering the palaestra.’~Socrates, who does not know his name,
 49 Intro|           virtues. At the desire of Socrates he invites Theaetetus to
 50 Intro|            sit by them.~‘Yes,’ says Socrates, ‘that I may see in you,
 51 Intro|         willing to be examined, and Socrates begins by asking him what
 52 Intro|     carpentering, and the like. But Socrates rejoins, that this answer
 53 Intro|     Theaetetus at once divines that Socrates means him to extend to all
 54 Intro|            were brought to him from Socrates, has been sorely distressed
 55 Intro|          sorely distressed by them. Socrates explains to him that he
 56 Intro|     assistance of midwives. And he, Socrates, is a midwife, although
 57 Intro|         from them. ‘At first,’ says Socrates in his character of the
 58 Intro|         often perplexed and amazed, Socrates, by these difficulties.’ ‘
 59 Intro|         Take myself as an instance:—Socrates may be ill or he may be
 60 Intro|             well,—and remember that Socrates, with all his accidents,
 61 Intro|          But I should like to know, Socrates, whether you mean to say
 62 Intro|               Theodorus thinks that Socrates is unjust to his master,
 63 Intro|         opinion by the arguments of Socrates.~Socrates then takes up
 64 Intro|          the arguments of Socrates.~Socrates then takes up the defence
 65 Intro|             appeal to geometry, and Socrates is induced by him to put
 66 Intro|         guardian, but he hopes that Socrates will come to the rescue.
 67 Intro|            will come to the rescue. Socrates prefaces his defence by
 68 Intro|           in a manner which enabled Socrates to raise a laugh against
 69 Intro|           to be well paid. And you, Socrates, whether you please or not,
 70 Intro|              I would recommend you, Socrates, to adopt this humaner method,
 71 Intro|            single fall, I consent.’~Socrates now resumes the argument.
 72 Intro|           is to him.’ And how, asks Socrates, are these words reconcileable
 73 Intro|         that this is going too far. Socrates ironically replies, that
 74 Intro|       begins a new question. ‘Well, Socrates, we have plenty of leisure.
 75 Intro|         much of a digression?~‘Nay, Socrates, the argument is our servant,
 76 Intro|            them.~‘What do you mean, Socrates?’~I will illustrate my meaning
 77 Intro|           feet. ‘That is very true, Socrates.’ But when he tries to draw
 78 Intro|             praises.~‘If the world, Socrates, were as ready to receive
 79 Intro|     digressed enough.~‘For my part, Socrates, I like the digressions
 80 Intro|           rest. This is declined by Socrates, who has too much reverence
 81 Intro|            with the ear. This leads Socrates to make the reflection that
 82 Intro|          for evil or evil for good. Socrates will not discourage him
 83 Intro|            e.g. Theaetetus may know Socrates, but at a distance he may
 84 Intro|           these distinctions; which Socrates proceeds to illustrate by
 85 Intro|          with this explanation. But Socrates has no sooner found the
 86 Intro|            what knowledge is. ‘Why, Socrates, how can you argue at all
 87 Intro|          definition or explanation. Socrates has had a similar dream,
 88 Intro|         down. The first syllable of Socrates’ name is SO. But what is
 89 Intro|            but when interrogated by Socrates he is unable to draw any
 90 Intro|     speculations.~(a) In the age of Socrates the mind was passing from
 91 Intro|    absoluteness of perception. Like Socrates, he seemed to see that philosophy
 92 Intro|             thought; the age before Socrates had not arrived at these
 93 Intro|             it, while agreeing with Socrates and the Cynics in the importance
 94 Intro|            Theodorus justly charges Socrates with going beyond the truth;
 95 Intro|            when he protests against Socrates arguing from the common
 96 Intro|           have said, ‘The excellent Socrates has first confused me with
 97 Intro|      distinction of words which, as Socrates observes, is by no means
 98 Intro|            Theaetetus, in answer to Socrates, proceeds to define knowledge
 99 Intro|          rational explanation. This Socrates identifies with another
100 Intro|          may be cited the remark of Socrates, that ‘distinctions of words,
101 Intro|    distinction of Theaetetus (which Socrates, speaking with emphasis, ‘
102 Intro|           and d. the distinction of Socrates himself between ‘having’
103  Thea|            PERSONS OF THE DIALOGUE: Socrates, Theodorus, Theaetetus.~
104  Thea|          and then I remembered what Socrates had said of him, and thought
105  Thea|             went to Athens, I asked Socrates about any point which I
106  Thea|      observe that I have introduced Socrates, not as narrating to me,
107  Thea|             EUCLID’S SERVANT READS.~SOCRATES: If I cared enough about
108  Thea|           anything.~THEODORUS: Yes, Socrates, I have become acquainted
109  Thea|           his age, it is wonderful.~SOCRATES: That is good news; whose
110  Thea|           see whether you know him.~SOCRATES: I know the youth, but I
111  Thea|              THEODORUS: Theaetetus, Socrates, is his name; but I rather
112  Thea|             is wonderfully liberal.~SOCRATES: He must be a fine fellow;
113  Thea|              Theaetetus, and sit by Socrates.~SOCRATES: By all means,
114  Thea|    Theaetetus, and sit by Socrates.~SOCRATES: By all means, Theaetetus,
115  Thea|          THEAETETUS: We should ask.~SOCRATES: And if we found that he
116  Thea|              not?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: And if this supposed likeness
117  Thea|    THEAETETUS: Certainly we should.~SOCRATES: And is Theodorus a painter?~
118  Thea|            never heard that he was.~SOCRATES: Is he a geometrician?~THEAETETUS:
119  Thea|        THEAETETUS: Of course he is, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And is he an
120  Thea|             course he is, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And is he an astronomer
121  Thea|             THEAETETUS: I think so.~SOCRATES: If, then, he remarks on
122  Thea|       THEAETETUS: I should say not.~SOCRATES: But if he praises the virtue
123  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Very true, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Then now is the
124  Thea|    THEAETETUS: Very true, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Then now is the time, my
125  Thea|   THEAETETUS: I am glad to hear it, Socrates; but what if he was only
126  Thea|             if he was only in jest?~SOCRATES: Nay, Theodorus is not given
127  Thea|             I must, if you wish it.~SOCRATES: In the first place, I should
128  Thea|           perhaps?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And astronomy and harmony
129  Thea|           THEAETETUS: I do my best.~SOCRATES: Yes, my boy, and so do
130  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Of course.~SOCRATES: And by wisdom the wise
131  Thea|          are wise?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And is that different in
132  Thea|        knowledge?~THEAETETUS: What?~SOCRATES: Wisdom; are not men wise
133  Thea|     THEAETETUS: Certainly they are.~SOCRATES: Then wisdom and knowledge
134  Thea|          the same?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: Herein lies the difficulty
135  Thea|            The reverse of rudeness, Socrates: but I would rather that
136  Thea|            him and not let him off.~SOCRATES: Do you hear, Theaetetus,
137  Thea|     knowledge is.~THEAETETUS: Well, Socrates, I will answer as you and
138  Thea|          will doubtless correct me.~SOCRATES: We will, if we can.~THEAETETUS:
139  Thea|            of, them, are knowledge.~SOCRATES: Too much, Theaetetus, too
140  Thea|       THEAETETUS: What do you mean, Socrates?~SOCRATES: Perhaps nothing.
141  Thea|         What do you mean, Socrates?~SOCRATES: Perhaps nothing. I will
142  Thea|         shoes?~THEAETETUS: Just so.~SOCRATES: And when you speak of carpentering,
143  Thea|       implements?~THEAETETUS: I do.~SOCRATES: In both cases you define
144  Thea|             arts?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: But that, Theaetetus, was
145  Thea|        THEAETETUS: Perfectly right.~SOCRATES: Let me offer an illustration:
146  Thea|      ridiculous?~THEAETETUS: Truly.~SOCRATES: In the first place, there
147  Thea|              THEAETETUS: He cannot.~SOCRATES: Then he who does not know
148  Thea|            shoes?~THEAETETUS: None.~SOCRATES: Nor of any other science?~
149  Thea|            science?~THEAETETUS: No.~SOCRATES: And when a man is asked
150  Thea|            that.’~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: Moreover, he might answer
151  Thea|             point.~THEAETETUS: Yes, Socrates, there is no difficulty
152  Thea|          friend here, your namesake Socrates, in a recent discussion.~
153  Thea|             in a recent discussion.~SOCRATES: What was that, Theaetetus?~
154  Thea|            under one name or class.~SOCRATES: And did you find such a
155  Thea|          like to have your opinion.~SOCRATES: Let me hear.~THEAETETUS:
156  Thea|        numbers;—that was one class.~SOCRATES: Very good.~THEAETETUS:
157  Thea|         called them oblong numbers.~SOCRATES: Capital; and what followed?~
158  Thea|          and the same about solids.~SOCRATES: Excellent, my boys; I think
159  Thea|        THEAETETUS: But I am unable, Socrates, to give you a similar answer
160  Thea|            is a deceiver after all.~SOCRATES: Well, but if some one were
161  Thea|          THEAETETUS: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: And is the discovery of
162  Thea|          the top of all perfection! SOCRATES: Well, then, be of good
163  Thea|      THEAETETUS: I am eager enough, Socrates, if that would bring to
164  Thea|           bring to light the truth.~SOCRATES: Come, you made a good beginning
165  Thea|       THEAETETUS: I can assure you, Socrates, that I have tried very
166  Thea|           off a feeling of anxiety.~SOCRATES: These are the pangs of
167  Thea|          THEAETETUS: I do not know, Socrates; I only say what I feel.~
168  Thea|             I only say what I feel.~SOCRATES: And have you never heard,
169  Thea|            THEAETETUS: Yes, I have.~SOCRATES: And that I myself practise
170  Thea|              THEAETETUS: No, never.~SOCRATES: Let me tell you that I
171  Thea|          that too?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: Shall I tell you the reason?~
172  Thea|           THEAETETUS: By all means.~SOCRATES: Bear in mind the whole
173  Thea|            THEAETETUS: Yes, I know.~SOCRATES: The reason of this is said
174  Thea|             THEAETETUS: I dare say.~SOCRATES: And I dare say too, or
175  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: And by the use of potions
176  Thea|         womb.~THEAETETUS: They can.~SOCRATES: Did you ever remark that
177  Thea|              THEAETETUS: No, never.~SOCRATES: Then let me tell you that
178  Thea|      THEAETETUS: Yes, the same art.~SOCRATES: And do you suppose that
179  Thea|     THEAETETUS: I should think not.~SOCRATES: Certainly not; but midwives
180  Thea|    matchmaker.~THEAETETUS: Clearly.~SOCRATES: Such are the midwives,
181  Thea|        THEAETETUS: Indeed I should.~SOCRATES: Well, my art of midwifery
182  Thea|            THEAETETUS: At any rate, Socrates, after such an exhortation
183  Thea|            knowledge is perception.~SOCRATES: Bravely said, boy; that
184  Thea|        perception?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: Well, you have delivered
185  Thea|             O yes, again and again.~SOCRATES: Does he not say that things
186  Thea|        THEAETETUS: Yes, he says so.~SOCRATES: A wise man is not likely
187  Thea|             THEAETETUS: Quite true.~SOCRATES: Now is the wind, regarded
188  Thea|     THEAETETUS: I suppose the last.~SOCRATES: Then it must appear so
189  Thea|           of them?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And ‘appears to him’ means
190  Thea|       perceives.’~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: Then appearing and perceiving
191  Thea|    perceives them?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then perception is always
192  Thea|      unerring?~THEAETETUS: Clearly.~SOCRATES: In the name of the Graces,
193  Thea|       THEAETETUS: What do you mean, Socrates?~SOCRATES: I am about to
194  Thea|         What do you mean, Socrates?~SOCRATES: I am about to speak of
195  Thea|             THEAETETUS: I think so.~SOCRATES: And who could take up arms
196  Thea|             THEAETETUS: Who indeed, Socrates?~SOCRATES: Yes, Theaetetus;
197  Thea|   THEAETETUS: Who indeed, Socrates?~SOCRATES: Yes, Theaetetus; and there
198  Thea|            fire?~THEAETETUS: It is.~SOCRATES: And the race of animals
199  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And is not the bodily habit
200  Thea|         exercise?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: And what of the mental
201  Thea|          learned?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: Then motion is a good,
202  Thea|          body?~THEAETETUS: Clearly.~SOCRATES: I may add, that breathless
203  Thea|              THEAETETUS: I believe, Socrates, that you have truly explained
204  Thea|        truly explained his meaning.~SOCRATES: Then now apply his doctrine
205  Thea|    THEAETETUS: Then what is colour?~SOCRATES: Let us carry the principle
206  Thea|            THEAETETUS: Far from it.~SOCRATES: Or that anything appears
207  Thea|             THEAETETUS: The latter.~SOCRATES: And if that with which
208  Thea|           of what sort do you mean?~SOCRATES: A little instance will
209  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: Well, then, suppose that
210  Thea|      THEAETETUS: I should say ‘No,’ Socrates, if I were to speak my mind
211  Thea|     contradicting my former answer.~SOCRATES: Capital! excellent! spoken
212  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: The thoroughbred Sophists,
213  Thea|            that would be my desire.~SOCRATES: And mine too. But since
214  Thea|             agree?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: Secondly, that without
215  Thea|             THEAETETUS: Quite true.~SOCRATES: Thirdly, that what was
216  Thea|             THEAETETUS: Yes, truly.~SOCRATES: These three axioms, if
217  Thea|        before now.~THEAETETUS: Yes, Socrates, and I am amazed when I
218  Thea|          the contemplation of them.~SOCRATES: I see, my dear Theaetetus,
219  Thea|             THEAETETUS: Not as yet.~SOCRATES: Then you will be obliged
220  Thea|         shall be very much obliged.~SOCRATES: Take a look round, then,
221  Thea|            THEAETETUS: Yes, indeed, Socrates, they are very hard and
222  Thea|           and impenetrable mortals.~SOCRATES: Yes, my boy, outer barbarians.
223  Thea|        THEAETETUS: Indeed I do not.~SOCRATES: Then attend, and I will
224  Thea|            do not know what to say, Socrates; for, indeed, I cannot make
225  Thea|             wanting to draw me out.~SOCRATES: You forget, my friend,
226  Thea|          think.~THEAETETUS: Ask me.~SOCRATES: Then once more: Is it your
227  Thea|            am very ready to assent.~SOCRATES: Let us not leave the argument
228  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Very true, Socrates.~SOCRATES: But then, my
229  Thea|    THEAETETUS: Very true, Socrates.~SOCRATES: But then, my boy, how can
230  Thea|     THEAETETUS: I am afraid to say, Socrates, that I have nothing to
231  Thea|          are flying in their sleep.~SOCRATES: Do you see another question
232  Thea|          THEAETETUS: What question?~SOCRATES: A question which I think
233  Thea|          state?~THEAETETUS: Indeed, Socrates, I do not know how to prove
234  Thea|        states is quite astonishing.~SOCRATES: You see, then, that a doubt
235  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Most true.~SOCRATES: And may not the same be
236  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And is truth or falsehood
237  Thea|            in many ways ridiculous.~SOCRATES: But can you certainly determine
238  Thea|            do not think that I can.~SOCRATES: Listen, then, to a statement
239  Thea|          any other way be the same.~SOCRATES: And must therefore be admitted
240  Thea|           unlike?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: If, then, anything happens
241  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Were we not saying that
242  Thea|          infinite?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And also that different
243  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Let us take you and me,
244  Thea|             as an example:—There is Socrates in health, and Socrates
245  Thea|             Socrates in health, and Socrates sick—Are they like or unlike?~
246  Thea|     THEAETETUS: You mean to compare Socrates in health as a whole, and
247  Thea|           in health as a whole, and Socrates in sickness as a whole?~
248  Thea|             in sickness as a whole?~SOCRATES: Exactly; that is my meaning.~
249  Thea|            answer, they are unlike.~SOCRATES: And if unlike, they are
250  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And would you not say the
251  Thea|             you not say the same of Socrates sleeping and waking, or
252  Thea|   mentioning?~THEAETETUS: I should.~SOCRATES: All agents have a different
253  Thea|         have a different patient in Socrates, accordingly as he is well
254  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Of course.~SOCRATES: And I who am the patient,
255  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: The wine which I drink
256  Thea|            to me?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: For, as has been already
257  Thea|          been already acknowledged.~SOCRATES: But when I am sick, the
258  Thea|            person?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: The combination of the
259  Thea|            draught of wine, and the Socrates who is sick, produces quite
260  Thea|       percipient?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: There is no other object
261  Thea|        different.~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: Neither can I by myself,
262  Thea|          THEAETETUS: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: When I perceive I must
263  Thea|          THEAETETUS: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: Then the inference is,
264  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Very true, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Then, if that
265  Thea|    THEAETETUS: Very true, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Then, if that which acts
266  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Of course.~SOCRATES: Then my perception is true
267  Thea|           THEAETETUS: I suppose so.~SOCRATES: How then, if I never err,
268  Thea|             THEAETETUS: You cannot.~SOCRATES: Then you were quite right
269  Thea|     THEAETETUS: I cannot but agree, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Then this is
270  Thea|         cannot but agree, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Then this is the child,
271  Thea|          good-natured. But tell me, Socrates, in heaven’s name, is this,
272  Thea|           after all, not the truth?~SOCRATES: You, Theodorus, are a lover
273  Thea|           THEODORUS: Do as you say, Socrates; you are quite right.~SOCRATES:
274  Thea|      Socrates; you are quite right.~SOCRATES: Shall I tell you, Theodorus,
275  Thea|              THEODORUS: What is it?~SOCRATES: I am charmed with his doctrine,
276  Thea|            He was a friend of mine, Socrates, as you were saying, and
277  Thea|       seemed to answer very nicely.~SOCRATES: If you were to go into
278  Thea|         person?~THEODORUS: Why not, Socrates, if they would allow me,
279  Thea|         drag me into the gymnasium.~SOCRATES: Your will is my will, Theodorus,
280  Thea|         face of things has changed.~SOCRATES: Why, my dear boy, you are
281  Thea|             But neither you nor we, Socrates, would be satisfied with
282  Thea|      satisfied with such arguments.~SOCRATES: Then you and Theodorus
283  Thea|          Yes, in quite another way.~SOCRATES: And the way will be to
284  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Shall we say that we know
285  Thea|           THEAETETUS: We shall say, Socrates, that we know what we actually
286  Thea|      interpreters teach about them.~SOCRATES: Capital, Theaetetus; and
287  Thea|             THEAETETUS: What is it?~SOCRATES: Some one will say, Can
288  Thea|             THEAETETUS: Impossible, Socrates; the supposition is monstrous.~
289  Thea|           supposition is monstrous.~SOCRATES: Am I talking nonsense,
290  Thea|       perception?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: And if our recent definition
291  Thea|          has seen?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And you would admit that
292  Thea|            memory?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And is memory of something
293  Thea|   THEAETETUS: Of something, surely.~SOCRATES: Of things learned and perceived,
294  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Often a man remembers that
295  Thea|             seen?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: And if he closed his eyes,
296  Thea|            forget?~THEAETETUS: Who, Socrates, would dare to say so?~SOCRATES:
297  Thea|     Socrates, would dare to say so?~SOCRATES: But we must say so, if
298  Thea|       suspicion that you are right.~SOCRATES: As thus: he who sees knows,
299  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: But he who saw, and has
300  Thea|             sees.~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: And seeing is knowing,
301  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: Then the inference is,
302  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Most true.~SOCRATES: Thus, then, the assertion
303  Thea|     impossibility?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then they must be distinguished?~
304  Thea|             suppose that they must.~SOCRATES: Once more we shall have
305  Thea|             THEAETETUS: About what?~SOCRATES: Like a good-for-nothing
306  Thea|        THEAETETUS: How do you mean?~SOCRATES: After the manner of disputers (
307  Thea|          not as yet understand you.~SOCRATES: Then I will try to explain
308  Thea|       perception.~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: And yet, my friend, I rather
309  Thea|             done?~THEODORUS: Not I, Socrates, but rather Callias, the
310  Thea|           to you if you assist him.~SOCRATES: Very good, Theodorus; you
311  Thea|      disgrace if he is discomfited.~SOCRATES: Then now let me ask the
312  Thea|            He cannot, I should say.~SOCRATES: He can, if you maintain
313  Thea|            eye but with the other.’~SOCRATES: Then you see and do not
314  Thea|            Yes, in a certain sense.~SOCRATES: None of that, he will reply;
315  Thea|      contradictory of my assertion.~SOCRATES: Yes, my marvel, and there
316  Thea|           THEAETETUS: By all means.~SOCRATES: He will repeat all those
317  Thea|        disdain, and say:—The worthy Socrates asked a little boy, whether
318  Thea|           what was coming, and then Socrates made fun of poor me. The
319  Thea|          The truth is, O slatternly Socrates, that when you ask questions
320  Thea|         than others. And, O my dear Socrates, I do not call wise men
321  Thea|             stands firm, which you, Socrates, may, if you please, overthrow
322  Thea|         THEODORUS: You are jesting, Socrates; indeed, your defence of
323  Thea|             has been most valorous.~SOCRATES: Thank you, friend; and
324  Thea|           fail to observe all that, Socrates?~SOCRATES: Well, and shall
325  Thea|         observe all that, Socrates?~SOCRATES: Well, and shall we do as
326  Thea|            THEODORUS: By all means.~SOCRATES: But if his wishes are to
327  Thea|           men who have long beards?~SOCRATES: Yes, Theodorus, but not
328  Thea|           He who is sitting by you, Socrates, will not easily avoid being
329  Thea|          fall with you in argument.~SOCRATES: There, Theodorus, you have
330  Thea|           further than you suggest.~SOCRATES: Once will be enough; and
331  Thea|           best to avoid that error.~SOCRATES: In the first place, let
332  Thea|       others.~THEODORUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: Had Protagoras been living
333  Thea|             stake?~THEODORUS: True.~SOCRATES: Then let us obtain, not
334  Thea|             THEODORUS: In what way?~SOCRATES: In this way:—His words
335  Thea|         THEODORUS: Yes, so he says.~SOCRATES: And are not we, Protagoras,
336  Thea|      opinion.~THEODORUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And wisdom is assumed by
337  Thea|        opinion.~THEODORUS: Exactly.~SOCRATES: How then, Protagoras, would
338  Thea|            The thing is incredible, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And yet that
339  Thea|            is incredible, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And yet that absurdity
340  Thea|          things.~THEODORUS: How so?~SOCRATES: Why, suppose that you determine
341  Thea|             THEODORUS: Yes, indeed, Socrates, thousands and tens of thousands,
342  Thea|         give me a world of trouble.~SOCRATES: Well, but are we to assert
343  Thea|     inference seems to be possible.~SOCRATES: And how about Protagoras
344  Thea|            with individual opinion.~SOCRATES: And the best of the joke
345  Thea|         true.~THEODORUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And does he not allow that
346  Thea|         true?~THEODORUS: Of course.~SOCRATES: Whereas the other side
347  Thea|             THEODORUS: They do not.~SOCRATES: And he, as may be inferred
348  Thea|           true.~THEODORUS: Clearly.~SOCRATES: Then all mankind, beginning
349  Thea|          not right?~THEODORUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And the truth of Protagoras
350  Thea|           else?~THEODORUS: I think, Socrates, that we are running my
351  Thea|             my old friend too hard.~SOCRATES: But I do not know that
352  Thea|         that opinion I quite agree.~SOCRATES: And is there not most likely
353  Thea|           THEODORUS: I quite agree.~SOCRATES: Or again, in politics,
354  Thea|          the last.~THEODORUS: Well, Socrates, we have plenty of leisure.~
355  Thea|             have plenty of leisure.~SOCRATES: That is true, and your
356  Thea|        THEODORUS: What do you mean?~SOCRATES: I mean to say, that those
357  Thea|             is the difference seen?~SOCRATES: In the leisure spoken of
358  Thea|           we claim.~THEODORUS: Nay, Socrates, not until we have finished
359  Thea|              as he might the poets?~SOCRATES: Then, as this is your wish,
360  Thea|        THEODORUS: What do you mean, Socrates?~SOCRATES: I will illustrate
361  Thea|         What do you mean, Socrates?~SOCRATES: I will illustrate my meaning,
362  Thea|           and what you say is true.~SOCRATES: And thus, my friend, on
363  Thea|       THEODORUS: That is very true, Socrates.~SOCRATES: But, O my friend,
364  Thea|             is very true, Socrates.~SOCRATES: But, O my friend, when
365  Thea|            only persuade everybody, Socrates, as you do me, of the truth
366  Thea|          and fewer evils among men.~SOCRATES: Evils, Theodorus, can never
367  Thea|            THEODORUS: What is that?~SOCRATES: There are two patterns
368  Thea|       idiots.~THEODORUS: Very true, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Too true, my
369  Thea|     THEODORUS: Very true, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Too true, my friend, as
370  Thea|             THEODORUS: For my part, Socrates, I would rather have the
371  Thea|            go back to the argument.~SOCRATES: Had we not reached the
372  Thea|      THEODORUS: Certainly it would.~SOCRATES: He ought not to speak of
373  Thea|             name.~THEODORUS: Right.~SOCRATES: Whatever be the term used,
374  Thea|           THEODORUS: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: But is the aim attained
375  Thea|            that there are mistakes.~SOCRATES: The possibility of error
376  Thea|       future.~THEODORUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: Suppose now, that we ask
377  Thea|             not so?~THEODORUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And do you extend your
378  Thea|           THEODORUS: How ludicrous!~SOCRATES: And the vinegrower, if
379  Thea|  harp-player?~THEODORUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And in musical composition
380  Thea|      reverse?~THEODORUS: Of course.~SOCRATES: And the cook will be a
381  Thea|          man?~THEODORUS: Certainly, Socrates, he used to profess in the
382  Thea|            all men in this respect.~SOCRATES: To be sure, friend: who
383  Thea|              THEODORUS: Who indeed?~SOCRATES: And legislation and expediency
384  Thea|              THEODORUS: Quite true.~SOCRATES: Then we may fairly argue
385  Thea|             best refutation of him, Socrates; although he is also caught
386  Thea|          direct to his own opinion.~SOCRATES: There are many ways, Theodorus,
387  Thea|          upholders of the doctrine.~SOCRATES: Then we are the more bound,
388  Thea|            drive it out everywhere.~SOCRATES: I suppose, Theodorus, that
389  Thea|          doing geometrical problem.~SOCRATES: Quite right too; but as
390  Thea|           so great?~THEODORUS: Nay, Socrates, not to examine thoroughly
391  Thea|         would be quite intolerable.~SOCRATES: Then examine we must, since
392  Thea|             motion?~THEODORUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: Here then we have one kind
393  Thea|              THEODORUS: I think so.~SOCRATES: Say rather that it must
394  Thea|           THEODORUS: You are right.~SOCRATES: And now, having made this
395  Thea|             are moved in both ways.~SOCRATES: Yes, comrade; for, if not,
396  Thea|              THEODORUS: To be sure.~SOCRATES: And if they are to be in
397  Thea|       motion?~THEODORUS: Most true.~SOCRATES: Consider a further point:
398  Thea|     remember?~THEODORUS: Of course.~SOCRATES: We may leave the details
399  Thea|    THEODORUS: Yes, they will reply.~SOCRATES: And they are moved in both
400  Thea|            motion is to be perfect.~SOCRATES: If they only moved in place
401  Thea|           flux?~THEODORUS: Exactly.~SOCRATES: But now, since not even
402  Thea|    THEODORUS: How is that possible, Socrates, either in the case of this
403  Thea|            is escaping in the flux?~SOCRATES: And what would you say
404  Thea|           all things are in motion.~SOCRATES: Then we must not speak
405  Thea|           THEODORUS: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: Yet perception is knowledge:
406  Thea|       saying.~THEODORUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: Then when we were asked
407  Thea|           THEODORUS: I suppose not.~SOCRATES: Here, then, is a fine result:
408  Thea|              THEODORUS: Quite true.~SOCRATES: Yes, Theodorus, except
409  Thea|         they will be quite at home.~SOCRATES: And so, Theodorus, we have
410  Thea|           is.~THEODORUS: Very good, Socrates; and now that the argument
411  Thea|            Theodorus, until you and Socrates have discussed the doctrine
412  Thea|            should prepare to answer Socrates in the remainder of the
413  Thea|             rest.~THEODORUS: Invite Socrates to an argument—invite horsemen
414  Thea|            him, and he will answer.~SOCRATES: Nevertheless, Theodorus,
415  Thea|            comply! for what reason?~SOCRATES: My reason is that I have
416  Thea|            well; do so if you will.~SOCRATES: Then now, Theaetetus, take
417  Thea|      perception?~THEAETETUS: I did.~SOCRATES: And if any one were to
418  Thea|               THEAETETUS: I should.~SOCRATES: The free use of words and
419  Thea|             I should say ‘through,’ Socrates, rather than ‘with.’~SOCRATES:
420  Thea|       Socrates, rather than ‘with.’~SOCRATES: Yes, my boy, for no one
421  Thea|           with you in that opinion.~SOCRATES: The reason why I am thus
422  Thea|             Of the body, certainly.~SOCRATES: And you would admit that
423  Thea|          THEAETETUS: Of course not.~SOCRATES: If you have any thought
424  Thea|              THEAETETUS: It cannot.~SOCRATES: How about sounds and colours:
425  Thea|             exist?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And that either of them
426  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And that both are two and
427  Thea|          them one?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: You can further observe
428  Thea|             THEAETETUS: I dare say.~SOCRATES: But through what do you
429  Thea|    Certainly; the faculty of taste.~SOCRATES: Very good; and now tell
430  Thea|           arithmetical conceptions.~SOCRATES: You follow me excellently,
431  Thea|         asking.~THEAETETUS: Indeed, Socrates, I cannot answer; my only
432  Thea|           universals in all things.~SOCRATES: You are a beauty, Theaetetus,
433  Thea|       THEAETETUS: I am quite clear.~SOCRATES: And to which class would
434  Thea|         aspires to know of herself.~SOCRATES: And would you say this
435  Thea|             other?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And would you say the same
436  Thea|            present with the future.~SOCRATES: And does she not perceive
437  Thea|             touch?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: But their essence and what
438  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: The simple sensations which
439  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Assuredly.~SOCRATES: And can a man attain truth
440  Thea|             THEAETETUS: Impossible.~SOCRATES: And can he who misses the
441  Thea|              THEAETETUS: He cannot.~SOCRATES: Then knowledge does not
442  Thea|      attained?~THEAETETUS: Clearly.~SOCRATES: And would you call the
443  Thea|             certainly not be right.~SOCRATES: And what name would you
444  Thea|             could be given to them?~SOCRATES: Perception would be the
445  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Which, as we say, has no
446  Thea|          THEAETETUS: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: And therefore not in science
447  Thea|          knowledge?~THEAETETUS: No.~SOCRATES: Then perception, Theaetetus,
448  Thea|            THEAETETUS: Clearly not, Socrates; and knowledge has now been
449  Thea|          different from perception.~SOCRATES: But the original aim of
450  Thea|        being.~THEAETETUS: You mean, Socrates, if I am not mistaken, what
451  Thea|         called thinking or opining.~SOCRATES: You conceive truly. And
452  Thea|           THEAETETUS: I cannot say, Socrates, that all opinion is knowledge,
453  Thea|           must try to find another.~SOCRATES: That is the way in which
454  Thea|       according to my present view.~SOCRATES: Is it still worth our while
455  Thea|           To what are you alluding?~SOCRATES: There is a point which
456  Thea|        THEAETETUS: Pray what is it?~SOCRATES: How there can be false
457  Thea|            THEAETETUS: Begin again, Socrates,—at least if you think that
458  Thea|           we may take our own time?~SOCRATES: You are quite right, and
459  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Well, and what is the difficulty?
460  Thea|    THEAETETUS: We certainly say so.~SOCRATES: All things and everything
461  Thea|              There can be no doubt, Socrates, if you exclude these, that
462  Thea|             or not knowing a thing.~SOCRATES: That point being now determined,
463  Thea|          know?~THEAETETUS: He must.~SOCRATES: He who knows, cannot but
464  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Of course.~SOCRATES: What shall we say then?
465  Thea|             both?~THEAETETUS: That, Socrates, is impossible.~SOCRATES:
466  Thea|            Socrates, is impossible.~SOCRATES: But perhaps he thinks of
467  Thea|        knows neither Theaetetus nor Socrates, and yet he fancies that
468  Thea|          fancies that Theaetetus is Socrates, or Socrates Theaetetus?~
469  Thea|          Theaetetus is Socrates, or Socrates Theaetetus?~THEAETETUS:
470  Thea|             THEAETETUS: How can he?~SOCRATES: But surely he cannot suppose
471  Thea|            That would be monstrous.~SOCRATES: Where, then, is false opinion?
472  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Most true.~SOCRATES: Suppose that we remove
473  Thea|       THEAETETUS: What do you mean?~SOCRATES: May we not suspect the
474  Thea|             again, is not unlikely, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Then suppose
475  Thea|             not unlikely, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Then suppose some one to
476  Thea|            answer?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: But is there any parallel
477  Thea|       THEAETETUS: What do you mean?~SOCRATES: Can a man see something
478  Thea|             THEAETETUS: Impossible.~SOCRATES: But if he sees any one
479  Thea|       things?~THEAETETUS: I do not.~SOCRATES: He then who sees some one
480  Thea|            is?~THEAETETUS: Clearly.~SOCRATES: And he who hears anything,
481  Thea|          which is?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And he who touches anything,
482  Thea|     THEAETETUS: That again is true.~SOCRATES: And does not he who thinks,
483  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And does not he who thinks
484  Thea|            is?~THEAETETUS: I agree.~SOCRATES: Then he who thinks of that
485  Thea|       nothing?~THEAETETUS: Clearly.~SOCRATES: And he who thinks of nothing,
486  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Obviously.~SOCRATES: Then no one can think that
487  Thea|            THEAETETUS: Clearly not.~SOCRATES: Then to think falsely is
488  Thea|       THEAETETUS: It would seem so.~SOCRATES: Then false opinion has
489  Thea|          THEAETETUS: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: But may not the following
490  Thea|             name?~THEAETETUS: What?~SOCRATES: May we not suppose that
491  Thea|            has truly false opinion.~SOCRATES: I see, Theaetetus, that
492  Thea|              What makes you say so?~SOCRATES: You think, if I am not
493  Thea|             else?~THEAETETUS: I am.~SOCRATES: It is possible then upon
494  Thea|          another?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: But must not the mind,
495  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Either together or in succession?~
496  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Very good.~SOCRATES: And do you mean by conceiving,
497  Thea|           THEAETETUS: What is that?~SOCRATES: I mean the conversation
498  Thea|           you?~THEAETETUS: I agree.~SOCRATES: Then when any one thinks
499  Thea|           another?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: But do you ever remember
500  Thea|            kind?~THEAETETUS: Never.~SOCRATES: And do you suppose that