Dialogue

501  Thea|          THEAETETUS: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: But if thinking is talking
502  Thea|           give up the word ‘other,’ Socrates; and I agree to what you
503  Thea|            I agree to what you say.~SOCRATES: If a man has both of them
504  Thea|            other?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: Neither, if he has one
505  Thea|             in his thoughts at all.~SOCRATES: Then no one who has either
506  Thea|        exist in us.~THEAETETUS: No.~SOCRATES: But if, Theaetetus, this
507  Thea|          THEAETETUS: What are they?~SOCRATES: I will not tell you until
508  Thea|            THEAETETUS: Let me hear.~SOCRATES: I think that we were wrong
509  Thea|           the time, that I may know Socrates, and at a distance see some
510  Thea|           the deception will occur?~SOCRATES: But has not that position
511  Thea|             know?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: Let us make the assertion
512  Thea|      THEAETETUS: Certainly you may.~SOCRATES: And another and another?~
513  Thea|           another?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: I would have you imagine,
514  Thea|         quality.~THEAETETUS: I see.~SOCRATES: Let us say that this tablet
515  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Very good.~SOCRATES: Now, when a person has
516  Thea|         THEAETETUS: In what manner?~SOCRATES: When he thinks what he
517  Thea|         amend the former statement?~SOCRATES: I should begin by making
518  Thea|            am unable to follow you.~SOCRATES: A person may think that
519  Thea|             you less than ever now.~SOCRATES: Hear me once more, then:—
520  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: Then, first of all, I want
521  Thea|            knows.~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: And that which he does
522  Thea|      THEAETETUS: That is also true.~SOCRATES: See whether you can follow
523  Thea|           can follow me better now: Socrates can recognize Theodorus
524  Thea|    THEAETETUS: You are quite right.~SOCRATES: Then that was the first
525  Thea|             spoke.~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: The second case was, that
526  Thea|             know.~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: In the third case, not
527  Thea|    understand me?~THEAETETUS: I do.~SOCRATES: The only possibility of
528  Thea|            ensues.~THEAETETUS: Yes, Socrates, you have described the
529  Thea|           with wonderful exactness.~SOCRATES: Or again, when I know both
530  Thea|          THEAETETUS: No, I did not.~SOCRATES: I meant to say, that when
531  Thea|         supposed.~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: But there was an omission
532  Thea|            it is rightly so called.~SOCRATES: When, therefore, perception
533  Thea|        THEAETETUS: And is not that, Socrates, nobly said?~SOCRATES: Nobly!
534  Thea|         that, Socrates, nobly said?~SOCRATES: Nobly! yes; but wait a
535  Thea|            THEAETETUS: Undoubtedly.~SOCRATES: And the origin of truth
536  Thea|        agree?~THEAETETUS: Entirely.~SOCRATES: But when the heart of any
537  Thea|       ignorant.~THEAETETUS: No man, Socrates, can say anything truer
538  Thea|           anything truer than that.~SOCRATES: Then now we may admit the
539  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And of true opinion also?~
540  Thea|      opinion also?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: We have at length satisfactorily
541  Thea|            THEAETETUS: Undoubtedly.~SOCRATES: Alas, Theaetetus, what
542  Thea|              What makes you say so?~SOCRATES: Because I am disheartened
543  Thea|         what puts you out of heart?~SOCRATES: I am not only out of heart,
544  Thea|           any one were to ask me:—O Socrates, have you indeed discovered
545  Thea|       ashamed of our demonstration, Socrates.~SOCRATES: He will say:
546  Thea|            demonstration, Socrates.~SOCRATES: He will say: You mean to
547  Thea|            THEAETETUS: Quite right.~SOCRATES: Well, then, he will say,
548  Thea|       twelve which are in the mind.~SOCRATES: Well, but do you think
549  Thea|     speaking of numbers in general.~SOCRATES: Exactly; and I want you
550  Thea|          that seems to be the case.~SOCRATES: Then do we not come back
551  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Most true.~SOCRATES: Then false opinion cannot
552  Thea|            It is hard to determine, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And yet the argument
553  Thea|             to determine, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And yet the argument will
554  Thea|             THEAETETUS: What is it?~SOCRATES: Let us attempt to explain
555  Thea|           should that be shameless?~SOCRATES: You seem not to be aware
556  Thea|           Nay, but I am well aware.~SOCRATES: And is it not shameless
557  Thea|            avoid these expressions, Socrates, how will you ever argue
558  Thea|         will you ever argue at all?~SOCRATES: I could not, being the
559  Thea|          using the forbidden terms.~SOCRATES: You have heard the common
560  Thea|          remember it at the moment.~SOCRATES: They explain the word ‘
561  Thea|       knowledge.’~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: I should like to make a
562  Thea|             two expressions differ?~SOCRATES: Perhaps there may be no
563  Thea|       THEAETETUS: I will, if I can.~SOCRATES: I should distinguish ‘having’
564  Thea|             the correct expression.~SOCRATES: Well, may not a man ‘possess’
565  Thea|            we not?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And yet, in another sense,
566  Thea|          pleases.~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: Once more, then, as in
567  Thea|       aviary—and what is to follow?~SOCRATES: We may suppose that the
568  Thea|          know.~THEAETETUS: Granted.~SOCRATES: And further, when any one
569  Thea|             THEAETETUS: To be sure.~SOCRATES: Conceive this under the
570  Thea|      general.~THEAETETUS: I follow.~SOCRATES: Having the use of the art,
571  Thea|           another.~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And when transmitting them
572  Thea|          them.~THEAETETUS: Exactly.~SOCRATES: Attend to what follows:
573  Thea|             mind?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: And he can reckon abstract
574  Thea|       THEAETETUS: Of course he can.~SOCRATES: And to reckon is simply
575  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: And so he appears to be
576  Thea|         raised?~THEAETETUS: I have.~SOCRATES: May we not pursue the image
577  Thea|             mind.~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: That was my reason for
578  Thea|             It would be too absurd, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Shall we say
579  Thea|            be too absurd, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Shall we say then that
580  Thea|              would be an absurdity.~SOCRATES: Then shall we say that
581  Thea|          very rational explanation.~SOCRATES: But when he catches the
582  Thea|           you not?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And so we are rid of the
583  Thea|             THEAETETUS: What is it?~SOCRATES: How can the exchange of
584  Thea|       THEAETETUS: What do you mean?~SOCRATES: In the first place, how
585  Thea|      ignorant.~THEAETETUS: Perhaps, Socrates, we may have been wrong
586  Thea|    knowledge, about the same thing.~SOCRATES: I cannot help praising
587  Thea|             right?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: He will certainly not think
588  Thea|          THEAETETUS: Of course not.~SOCRATES: He will think that his
589  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Then he will think that
590  Thea|     ignorance?~THEAETETUS: Clearly.~SOCRATES: And thus, after going a
591  Thea|     Theaetetus?~THEAETETUS: Indeed, Socrates, I do not know what we are
592  Thea|            know what we are to say.~SOCRATES: Are not his reproaches
593  Thea|          cannot but agree with you, Socrates, so far as we have yet gone.~
594  Thea|            far as we have yet gone.~SOCRATES: Then, once more, what shall
595  Thea|          lose heart, if you do not.~SOCRATES: What definition will be
596  Thea|             of any but our old one, Socrates.~SOCRATES: What was it?~
597  Thea|          but our old one, Socrates.~SOCRATES: What was it?~THEAETETUS:
598  Thea|             are all noble and good.~SOCRATES: He who led the way into
599  Thea|          let us go forward and try.~SOCRATES: The trail soon comes to
600  Thea|             profession do you mean?~SOCRATES: The profession of the great
601  Thea|             can only persuade them.~SOCRATES: And would you not say that
602  Thea|             THEAETETUS: To be sure.~SOCRATES: When, therefore, judges
603  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And yet, O my friend, if
604  Thea|              That is a distinction, Socrates, which I have heard made
605  Thea|           explanation are knowable.~SOCRATES: Excellent; but then, how
606  Thea|            that I could follow him.~SOCRATES: Let me give you, then,
607  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Precisely.~SOCRATES: And you allow and maintain
608  Thea|     knowledge?~THEAETETUS: Exactly.~SOCRATES: Then may we assume, Theaetetus,
609  Thea|            THEAETETUS: At any rate, Socrates, I am satisfied with the
610  Thea|         with the present statement.~SOCRATES: Which is probably correct—
611  Thea|            THEAETETUS: What was it?~SOCRATES: What might seem to be the
612  Thea|     THEAETETUS: And was that wrong?~SOCRATES: We shall soon know; for
613  Thea|          THEAETETUS: What hostages?~SOCRATES: The letters, which are
614  Thea|            THEAETETUS: Yes; he did.~SOCRATES: Let us take them and put
615  Thea|             THEAETETUS: I think so.~SOCRATES: I think so too; for, suppose
616  Thea|             I should reply S and O.~SOCRATES: That is the definition
617  Thea|     syllable?~THEAETETUS: I should.~SOCRATES: I wish that you would give
618  Thea|    THEAETETUS: But how can any one, Socrates, tell the elements of an
619  Thea|           but no definition at all.~SOCRATES: Then, I suppose, my friend,
620  Thea|          Yes; I think that we have.~SOCRATES: Well, but have we been
621  Thea|             THEAETETUS: I think so.~SOCRATES: And do we mean by a syllable
622  Thea|            we mean all the letters.~SOCRATES: Take the case of the two
623  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: He knows, that is, the
624  Thea|             and O?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: But can he be ignorant
625  Thea|     THEAETETUS: Such a supposition, Socrates, is monstrous and unmeaning.~
626  Thea|            monstrous and unmeaning.~SOCRATES: But if he cannot know both
627  Thea|            with wonderful celerity.~SOCRATES: Yes, we did not keep watch
628  Thea|       likely notion than the other.~SOCRATES: Take care; let us not be
629  Thea|             THEAETETUS: No, indeed.~SOCRATES: Let us assume then, as
630  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Very good.~SOCRATES: And it must have no parts.~
631  Thea|             parts.~THEAETETUS: Why?~SOCRATES: Because that which has
632  Thea|        parts?~THEAETETUS: I should.~SOCRATES: And would you say that
633  Thea|            that they are different.~SOCRATES: I approve of your readiness,
634  Thea|            the answer is the point.~SOCRATES: According to this new view,
635  Thea|          from all?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: Well, but is there any
636  Thea|            THEAETETUS: Of the same.~SOCRATES: That is of six?~THEAETETUS:
637  Thea|            of six?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And in each form of expression
638  Thea|          the six?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: Again, in speaking of all (
639  Thea|     THEAETETUS: Of course there is.~SOCRATES: And that is six?~THEAETETUS:
640  Thea|            is six?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then in predicating the
641  Thea|          THEAETETUS: Clearly we do.~SOCRATES: Again, the number of the
642  Thea|          they not?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And the number of the stadium
643  Thea|           stadium?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And the army is the number
644  Thea|            thing?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: And the number of each
645  Thea|          each?~THEAETETUS: Exactly.~SOCRATES: Then as many things as
646  Thea|         parts?~THEAETETUS: Clearly.~SOCRATES: But all the parts are admitted
647  Thea|          the all?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: Then the whole is not made
648  Thea|              That is the inference.~SOCRATES: But is a part a part of
649  Thea|        THEAETETUS: Yes, of the all.~SOCRATES: You make a valiant defence,
650  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And is not a whole likewise
651  Thea|            between a whole and all.~SOCRATES: But were we not saying
652  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Then, as I was saying before,
653  Thea|          THEAETETUS: You are right.~SOCRATES: And, in order to avoid
654  Thea|         from them?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: But if letters are not
655  Thea|             THEAETETUS: No, indeed, Socrates; for if I admit the existence
656  Thea|           and seek for other parts.~SOCRATES: Quite true, Theaetetus,
657  Thea|             form?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: But do you remember, my
658  Thea|             THEAETETUS: I remember.~SOCRATES: And is not this also the
659  Thea|          other reason can be given.~SOCRATES: Then is not the syllable
660  Thea|             THEAETETUS: To be sure.~SOCRATES: If, then, a syllable is
661  Thea|            whole?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: But if it be one and indivisible,
662  Thea|     THEAETETUS: I cannot deny that.~SOCRATES: We cannot, therefore, agree
663  Thea|             may trust the argument.~SOCRATES: Well, but will you not
664  Thea|        THEAETETUS: What experience?~SOCRATES: Why, that in learning you
665  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: And is the education of
666  Thea|         music?~THEAETETUS: Exactly.~SOCRATES: Then, if we argue from
667  Thea|      nonsense?~THEAETETUS: Exactly.~SOCRATES: And there might be given
668  Thea|            THEAETETUS: We must not.~SOCRATES: Well, and what is the meaning
669  Thea|          THEAETETUS: What are they?~SOCRATES: In the first place, the
670  Thea|            said to explain himself.~SOCRATES: And every one who is not
671  Thea|        knowledge.~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: Let us not, therefore,
672  Thea|         THEAETETUS: As for example, Socrates...?~SOCRATES: As, for example,
673  Thea|           for example, Socrates...?~SOCRATES: As, for example, when Hesiod
674  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And our opponent will probably
675  Thea|          composed.~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: In the same general way,
676  Thea|             not agree in that view, Socrates?~SOCRATES: If you do, my
677  Thea|             in that view, Socrates?~SOCRATES: If you do, my friend; but
678  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Precisely.~SOCRATES: Well, and do you conceive
679  Thea|          THEAETETUS: Assuredly not.~SOCRATES: And do you not remember
680  Thea|             misspelt the syllables?~SOCRATES: Yes.~THEAETETUS: To be
681  Thea|           condition have knowledge.~SOCRATES: When a person at the time
682  Thea|             yet attained knowledge.~SOCRATES: And in like manner be may
683  Thea|           name?~THEAETETUS: He may.~SOCRATES: And in that case, when
684  Thea|       opinion?~THEAETETUS: Clearly.~SOCRATES: But although we admit that
685  Thea|         knowledge?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And yet he will have explanation,
686  Thea|      explanation.~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: Then, my friend, there
687  Thea|       THEAETETUS: It would seem so.~SOCRATES: And what we fancied to
688  Thea|            is the third definition?~SOCRATES: There is, further, the
689  Thea|       example of such a definition?~SOCRATES: As, for example, in the
690  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Understand why:—the reason
691  Thea|             in my judgment correct.~SOCRATES: But he, who having right
692  Thea|            what we are maintaining.~SOCRATES: Nevertheless, Theaetetus,
693  Thea|       THEAETETUS: What do you mean?~SOCRATES: I will endeavour to explain:
694  Thea|      opinion only.~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: The definition was assumed
695  Thea|       difference.~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: But when I had only opinion,
696  Thea|          THEAETETUS: I suppose not.~SOCRATES: Then I must have conceived
697  Thea|          another.~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: Tell me, now—How in that
698  Thea|           THEAETETUS: How could it?~SOCRATES: Or if I had further conceived
699  Thea|          THEAETETUS: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: Surely I can have no conception
700  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Most true.~SOCRATES: Then right opinion implies
701  Thea|   differences?~THEAETETUS: Clearly.~SOCRATES: What, then, shall we say
702  Thea|     ridiculous.~THEAETETUS: How so?~SOCRATES: We are supposed to acquire
703  Thea|             you asked the question?~SOCRATES: If, my boy, the argument,
704  Thea|        knowledge.~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: And so, when the question
705  Thea|              That seems to be true.~SOCRATES: But how utterly foolish,
706  Thea|          THEAETETUS: I suppose not.~SOCRATES: And are you still in labour
707  Thea|              THEAETETUS: I am sure, Socrates, that you have elicited
708  Thea|           more than ever was in me.~SOCRATES: And does not my art show
709  Thea|              THEAETETUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: But if, Theaetetus, you