Dialogue

  1 Intro|            of place. The invincible Socrates is withdrawn from view;
  2 Intro|          illustrations. The younger Socrates resembles his namesake in
  3 Intro|        which show that the irony of Socrates was a lesson which Plato
  4 Intro|           be filled up as follows:—~SOCRATES: I have reason to thank
  5 Intro|             as well as the Sophist.~SOCRATES: Does the great geometrician
  6 Intro|        THEODORUS: By the god Ammon, Socrates, you are right; and I am
  7 Intro|           allowed to rest, and that Socrates the younger shall respond
  8 Intro|       agrees to the suggestion, and Socrates remarks that the name of
  9 Intro|              No matter.’ Very good, Socrates, and if you are not too
 10 Intro|            state of existence?’ No, Socrates, that blessed and spontaneous
 11 Intro| Introduction to Critias). The young Socrates has heard of the sun rising
 12 Intro|           ready assent of the young Socrates, who is not too old to be
 13 Intro|         science. In the Protagoras, Socrates was maintaining that there
 14 State|            THE DIALOGUE: Theodorus, Socrates, The Eleatic Stranger, The
 15 State|       Eleatic Stranger, The Younger Socrates.~SOCRATES: I owe you many
 16 State|     Stranger, The Younger Socrates.~SOCRATES: I owe you many thanks,
 17 State|              And in a little while, Socrates, you will owe me three times
 18 State|             well as of the Sophist.~SOCRATES: Sophist, statesman, philosopher!
 19 State|        THEODORUS: What do you mean, Socrates?~SOCRATES: I mean that you
 20 State|         What do you mean, Socrates?~SOCRATES: I mean that you rate them
 21 State|           Ammon, the god of Cyrene, Socrates, that is a very fair hit;
 22 State|            his companion, the Young Socrates, instead of him? What do
 23 State|             have intervals of rest.~SOCRATES: I think, Stranger, that
 24 State|          STRANGER: Very good. Young Socrates, do you hear what the elder
 25 State|             you hear what the elder Socrates is proposing?~YOUNG SOCRATES:
 26 State|        Socrates is proposing?~YOUNG SOCRATES: I do.~STRANGER: And do
 27 State|        agree to his proposal?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: As
 28 State|             who have science.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: Then the
 29 State|            divided as before?~YOUNG SOCRATES: I dare say.~STRANGER: But
 30 State|         will not be the same?~YOUNG SOCRATES: How then?~STRANGER: They
 31 State|             some other point.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: Where shall
 32 State|            under two classes.~YOUNG SOCRATES: To find the path is your
 33 State|            not mine.~STRANGER: Yes, Socrates, but the discovery, when
 34 State|        yours as well as mine.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very good.~STRANGER: Well,
 35 State|        separated from action?~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: But in
 36 State|     previously did not exist.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: Then
 37 State|          purely intellectual.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Let us assume these two
 38 State|        matter in another way.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Let me hear.~STRANGER:
 39 State|           called a physician?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: And if any
 40 State|        himself ought to have?~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: But surely
 41 State|             is royal science?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: And will
 42 State|         truly called ‘royal’?~YOUNG SOCRATES: He certainly ought to be.~
 43 State|          master are the same?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Of course.~STRANGER: Again,
 44 State|      government is concerned?~YOUNG SOCRATES: They will not.~STRANGER:
 45 State|           one about the name.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly not.~STRANGER:
 46 State|         strength of his mind.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Clearly not.~STRANGER:
 47 State|    practical life in general?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly he has.~STRANGER:
 48 State|         science and the king.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Clearly.~STRANGER: And
 49 State|          sphere of knowledge?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very good.~STRANGER: Think
 50 State|         parting in knowledge.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Tell me of what sort.~STRANGER:
 51 State|           art of calculation?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: Which was,
 52 State|            arts of knowledge?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: And
 53 State|            their differences?~YOUNG SOCRATES: How could we?~STRANGER:
 54 State|             ruler of workmen?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: He contributes
 55 State|            not manual labour?~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: And may
 56 State|          theoretical science?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Quite true.~STRANGER: But
 57 State|           completed the work.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: Are not
 58 State|            of ruling as well?~YOUNG SOCRATES: That is evident.~STRANGER:
 59 State|           other which judges?~YOUNG SOCRATES: I should think so.~STRANGER:
 60 State|            a desirable thing?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: Then
 61 State|            fancies of others?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly not.~STRANGER:
 62 State|            for he is a ruler?~YOUNG SOCRATES: The latter, clearly.~STRANGER:
 63 State|         king from the herald.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How is this?~STRANGER:
 64 State|             been sold before?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly he does.~STRANGER:
 65 State|          give them to others?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: Then
 66 State|           who is not a ruler.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very good.~STRANGER: Thus
 67 State|             further division.~YOUNG SOCRATES: By all means.~STRANGER:
 68 State|          making the division.~YOUNG SOCRATES: At what point?~STRANGER:
 69 State|          producing something?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: Nor
 70 State|             into two classes.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How would you divide them?~
 71 State|             are without life.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: And by
 72 State|     knowledge which commands.~YOUNG SOCRATES: At what point?~STRANGER:
 73 State|        whole will be divided.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: That
 74 State|             divided into two.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Which of the two halves
 75 State|             of living beings.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: And the
 76 State|          creatures in flocks?~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: But the
 77 State|            of horses or oxen.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes, I see, thanks to you.~
 78 State|        collective management?~YOUNG SOCRATES: No matter;—whichever suggests
 79 State|  conversation.~STRANGER: Very good, Socrates; and, if you continue to
 80 State|             half that number?~YOUNG SOCRATES: I will try;—there appears
 81 State|             had better avoid.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What is the error?~STRANGER:
 82 State|           process of enquiry.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What do you mean, Stranger?~
 83 State|            love to your good parts, Socrates; and, although I cannot
 84 State|             a little clearer.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What was the error of which,
 85 State|            were also classes.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true; but I wish that
 86 State|       somewhat plainer.~STRANGER: O Socrates, best of men, you are imposing
 87 State|             heard me declare—~YOUNG SOCRATES: What?~STRANGER: That a
 88 State|            part are distinct.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What did I hear, then?~
 89 State|             you to attribute to me, Socrates.~YOUNG SOCRATES: So be it.~
 90 State|    attribute to me, Socrates.~YOUNG SOCRATES: So be it.~STRANGER: There
 91 State|          should like to know.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What is it?~STRANGER: The
 92 State|          making up the other.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: I thought
 93 State|        common name of brutes.~YOUNG SOCRATES: That again is true.~STRANGER:
 94 State|            must try to avoid.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How can we be safe?~STRANGER:
 95 State|         fall into that error.~YOUNG SOCRATES: We had better not take
 96 State|          our former division.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How?~STRANGER: You remember
 97 State|             animals in herds?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: In that
 98 State|        tamed are called wild.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: And the
 99 State|           gregarious animals.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: But then
100 State|           the proverb speaks.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What misfortune?~STRANGER:
101 State|             too little speed.~YOUNG SOCRATES: And all the better, Stranger;—
102 State|          know. Tell me, then—~YOUNG SOCRATES: What?~STRANGER: Have you
103 State|             in wells at home?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes, to be sure, I have
104 State|           plains of Thessaly?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: I
105 State|           and of water herds.~YOUNG SOCRATES: There is.~STRANGER: And
106 State|        rearing of land herds?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: There is
107 State|         evident to everybody.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: Any
108 State|             feed on dry land?~YOUNG SOCRATES: How would you divide them?~
109 State|             those which walk.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Most true.~STRANGER: And
110 State|           he is a pedestrian?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: The
111 State|         halve an even number.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Clearly.~STRANGER: Let
112 State|          whichever we please.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Cannot we have both ways?~
113 State|              you clearly may.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Then I should like to have
114 State|       attend to the division.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Let me hear.~STRANGER:
115 State|             into two classes.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Upon what principle?~STRANGER:
116 State|             is without horns.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Clearly.~STRANGER: Suppose
117 State|          intricacy too great.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How must I speak of them,
118 State|            that has no horns.~YOUNG SOCRATES: All that you say has been
119 State|            who have no horns.~YOUNG SOCRATES: That is evident.~STRANGER:
120 State|           to him what is his?~YOUNG SOCRATES: By all means.~STRANGER:
121 State|             know what I mean.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What?~STRANGER: I mean
122 State|             from one another.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: But the
123 State|            not mix the breed.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: And
124 State|             the unmixed race?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Clearly of the unmixed.~
125 State|         this again as before.~YOUNG SOCRATES: We must.~STRANGER: Every
126 State|           gregarious animals.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly not; but how
127 State|         students of geometry.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What is that?~STRANGER:
128 State|     diameter. (Compare Meno.)~YOUNG SOCRATES: What do you mean?~STRANGER:
129 State|            power is two feet?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Just so.~STRANGER: And
130 State|     diameter of our diameter.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly; and now I think
131 State|       STRANGER: In these divisions, Socrates, I descry what would make
132 State|          another famous jest.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What is it?~STRANGER: Human
133 State|             a race with them.~YOUNG SOCRATES: I remark that very singular
134 State|       slowest to arrive last?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Indeed I should.~STRANGER:
135 State|        laziest of creation.’)~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: Then
136 State|     Certainly.~STRANGER: Then here, Socrates, is still clearer evidence
137 State|             Compare Sophist.)~YOUNG SOCRATES: What?~STRANGER: That the
138 State|            the truest result.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Clearly.~STRANGER: And
139 State|         definition of a king.~YOUNG SOCRATES: By all means.~STRANGER:
140 State|         which belongs to him.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very good; you have paid
141 State|          the Statesman’s art.~YOUNG SOCRATES: By all means.~STRANGER:
142 State|          royal and political.~YOUNG SOCRATES: To be sure.~STRANGER: And
143 State|         STRANGER: And do you think, Socrates, that we really have done
144 State|         have done as you say?~YOUNG SOCRATES: What?~STRANGER: Do you
145 State|            the enquiry fails.~YOUNG SOCRATES: I do not understand.~STRANGER:
146 State|           clearer to us both.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Let me hear.~STRANGER:
147 State|          one particular herd?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: And this
148 State|             man collectively?~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: Note, however,
149 State|          all other shepherds.~YOUNG SOCRATES: To what do you refer?~STRANGER:
150 State|       management of the herd?~YOUNG SOCRATES: What do you mean?~STRANGER:
151 State|            rulers themselves.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Are they not right in saying
152 State|           animals in general.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: But
153 State|           of the human flock?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Surely not.~STRANGER: Had
154 State|             his prerogatives?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: And
155 State|           true.~STRANGER: And that, Socrates, is what we must do, if
156 State|        argument at its close.~YOUNG SOCRATES: We must certainly avoid
157 State|             a different road.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What road?~STRANGER: I
158 State|         Shall we do as I say?~YOUNG SOCRATES: By all means.~STRANGER:
159 State|           childish amusement.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Let me hear.~STRANGER:
160 State|        happened at that time?~YOUNG SOCRATES: I suppose you to mean the
161 State|          the right of Atreus.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes; there is that legend
162 State|          the reign of Cronos.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes, very often.~STRANGER:
163 State|      begotten of one another?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes, that is another old
164 State|           nature of the king.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very good; and I hope that
165 State|           opposite direction.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Why is that?~STRANGER:
166 State|           the smallest pivot.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Your account of the world
167 State|          wonders. It is this.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What?~STRANGER: The reversal
168 State|       motion of the universe.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How is that the cause?~
169 State|            and most complete.~YOUNG SOCRATES: I should imagine so.~STRANGER:
170 State|            world at the time.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Such changes would naturally
171 State|            upon them at once.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: Hence
172 State|            we are now living.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What is it?~STRANGER: The
173 State|            were no more seen.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Then how, Stranger, were
174 State|            STRANGER: It is evident, Socrates, that there was no such
175 State|        legend clings to them.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly that is quite
176 State|          man in the days of Cronos, Socrates; the character of our present
177 State|             deem the happier?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Impossible.~STRANGER: Then
178 State|             as well as I can?~YOUNG SOCRATES: By all means.~STRANGER:
179 State|           previous discourse.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What was this great error
180 State|            and grander scale.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What do you mean?~STRANGER:
181 State|           great as the first.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very good.~STRANGER: Before
182 State|         nature of his office.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: And
183 State|         care of human beings.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: And
184 State|             I cannot help thinking, Socrates, that the form of the divine
185 State|       breeding and education.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: Still
186 State|            a level with them.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Of course.~STRANGER: To
187 State|            of rearing a herd?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes, I remember.~STRANGER:
188 State|             our nomenclature.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How was that?~STRANGER:
189 State|           common to them all.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True, if there be such
190 State|             seems to require.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Quite right; but how shall
191 State|           the rule of Cronos.~YOUNG SOCRATES: That is clear; but I still
192 State|            art than any king.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: But no
193 State|          over men in general.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Quite true.~STRANGER: In
194 State|        STRANGER: In the next place, Socrates, we must surely notice that
195 State|          end of our analysis.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What was it?~STRANGER:
196 State|           no more to be said.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly not.~STRANGER:
197 State|       considerable divisions.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How can they be made?~STRANGER:
198 State|          guardian or manager.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: And the
199 State|             to be subdivided.~YOUNG SOCRATES: On what principle?~STRANGER:
200 State|     voluntary and compulsory.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Why?~STRANGER: Because,
201 State|          modes of government.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: Then, now,
202 State|     voluntary and compulsory.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: And
203 State|           king and statesman?~YOUNG SOCRATES: I think, Stranger, that
204 State|        STRANGER: Would that we had, Socrates, but I have to satisfy myself
205 State|         sort by works of art.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true; but what is
206 State|          and to know nothing.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What do you mean?~STRANGER:
207 State|      experience of knowledge.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Why so?~STRANGER: Why,
208 State|           of another example.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Proceed; you need not fear
209 State|           know their letters—~YOUNG SOCRATES: What are you going to say?~
210 State|          tell them correctly.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: Whereas
211 State|        speak falsely of them.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: Will
212 State|           not as yet know be—~YOUNG SOCRATES: Be what?~STRANGER: To refer
213 State|             by the same name.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: Are
214 State|        includes both of them.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Exactly.~STRANGER: Can
215 State|             ignorant of them?~YOUNG SOCRATES: There is nothing wonderful
216 State|             to attain wisdom?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Hardly.~STRANGER: Then
217 State|       become a reality to us.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: Then,
218 State|           first to be framed.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Exactly.~STRANGER: What
219 State|      political occupation? Suppose, Socrates, that if we have no other
220 State|       illustrate our meaning?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: Why
221 State|       needed for our purpose?~YOUNG SOCRATES: How do you mean?~STRANGER:
222 State|       performing the process.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very good.~STRANGER: All
223 State|           from the political?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Most true.~STRANGER: In
224 State|            co-operative arts.~YOUNG SOCRATES: And which are the kindred
225 State|          termed kindred arts.~YOUNG SOCRATES: I understand.~STRANGER:
226 State|            the cobbler’s art.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Precisely.~STRANGER: Then
227 State|          the name of weaving.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: Yes,
228 State|          opposite of weaving.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How so?~STRANGER: Weaving
229 State|            a sort of uniting?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: But the
230 State|            and matted fibres?~YOUNG SOCRATES: What do you mean?~STRANGER:
231 State|           carder is a weaver.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly not.~STRANGER:
232 State|        paradoxical and false.~YOUNG SOCRATES: To be sure.~STRANGER: Shall
233 State|           as arts of weaving?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly not.~STRANGER:
234 State|         field for themselves.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: Besides
235 State|           work of the weaver.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Most true.~STRANGER: Well,
236 State|           first cleared away?~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: Then the
237 State|             a regular manner?~YOUNG SOCRATES: By all means.~STRANGER:
238 State|       everything which we do.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What are they?~STRANGER:
239 State|          the principal cause.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What do you mean?~STRANGER:
240 State|        themselves are causal.~YOUNG SOCRATES: A very reasonable distinction.~
241 State|           themselves, causal.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: The
242 State|             the fuller’s art.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very good.~STRANGER: Carding
243 State|           of working in wool.~YOUNG SOCRATES: To be sure.~STRANGER: Of
244 State|             two arts at once.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How is that?~STRANGER:
245 State|          the art of division.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: To the latter
246 State|           just now mentioned.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: Again,
247 State|        principle of division.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Let that be done.~STRANGER:
248 State|            STRANGER: And once more, Socrates, we must divide the part
249 State|     aforesaid art of weaving.~YOUNG SOCRATES: We must.~STRANGER: Yes,
250 State|            of combining them.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Do I understand you, in
251 State|             is the woof made?~YOUNG SOCRATES: There is no other way.~
252 State|             be of use to you.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How shall I define them?~
253 State|             to be pulled out.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: And the
254 State|            spinning the warp.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: And the
255 State|            spinning the woof.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: And,
256 State|           the art of weaving.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: But
257 State|          and useless circuit?~YOUNG SOCRATES: I thought, Stranger, that
258 State|         arguments in general.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Proceed.~STRANGER: Let
259 State|     discussions of this kind.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Let us do so.~STRANGER:
260 State|           are the following:—~YOUNG SOCRATES: What? STRANGER: Length
261 State|    measurement is conversant.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: And the
262 State|          our present purpose.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Where would you make the
263 State|          would be impossible.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What do you mean?~STRANGER:
264 State|            the greater alone?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: Well, but
265 State|             good and bad men?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Plainly.~STRANGER: Then
266 State|          hear the reason why?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: If
267 State|         either with the mean.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: And would
268 State|        observance of measure.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: But
269 State|           will be impossible.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: Well,
270 State|        master of his science.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes, we must certainly
271 State|           then.~STRANGER: But this, Socrates, is a greater work than
272 State|       something of this sort—~YOUNG SOCRATES: What?~STRANGER: That we
273 State|             there is neither.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True; and what is the next
274 State|            from the extremes.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Here are two vast divisions,
275 State|          are many accomplished men, Socrates, who say, believing themselves
276 State|         forget what they are.~YOUNG SOCRATES: We will not forget.~STRANGER:
277 State|         arguments in general.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What is this new question?~
278 State|              or of all words?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Clearly, in order that
279 State|          reasoning generally?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Clearly, as in the former
280 State|        matters than on great.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very good.~STRANGER: Let
281 State|          bearing of all this.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What is it?~STRANGER: I
282 State| disagreeables for the future.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very good. Will you proceed?~
283 State|             be borne in mind.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: And
284 State|           example of weaving.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very good;—let us do as
285 State|             from one another.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very good.~STRANGER: You
286 State|        evident as we proceed.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Then we had better do so.~
287 State|            parts as possible.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What is to be done in this
288 State|           us as co-operative.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: So now,
289 State|            of the kingly art.~YOUNG SOCRATES: No, indeed.~STRANGER: The
290 State|           have a word to say.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What class do you mean?~
291 State|            which is produced.~YOUNG SOCRATES: To what do you refer?~STRANGER:
292 State|             we are in search.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly not.~STRANGER:
293 State|           seat for something.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What is it?~STRANGER: A
294 State|              and coppersmith.~YOUNG SOCRATES: I understand.~STRANGER:
295 State|             of the Statesman.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: Shall
296 State|  comprehended under one name?~YOUNG SOCRATES: What is it?~STRANGER: Plaything
297 State|        Plaything is the name.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: That
298 State|            is their sole aim.~YOUNG SOCRATES: That again I understand.~
299 State|             I not rank sixth?~YOUNG SOCRATES: What do you mean?~STRANGER:
300 State|            no concern at all.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: The provision
301 State|          the Statesman’s art.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly not.~STRANGER:
302 State|       animals, except slaves.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: The
303 State|            political science.~YOUNG SOCRATES: I agree.~STRANGER: Let
304 State|         this remaining class.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Let us do so.~STRANGER:
305 State|          what we anticipated.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Who are they?~STRANGER:
306 State|          claim royal science.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly not.~STRANGER:
307 State|       statecraft or politics?~YOUNG SOCRATES: No; unless, indeed, to
308 State|             in royal science?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly not.~STRANGER:
309 State|        serviceable officials?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Who are they, and what
310 State|           shall we call them?~YOUNG SOCRATES: They are the officials,
311 State|           this neighbourhood.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: Well,
312 State|           of the gods to men.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: There is
313 State|           or ministerial art.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes, clearly.~STRANGER:
314 State|           be the King Archon.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Precisely.~STRANGER: But
315 State|            the scene changes?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Whom can you mean?~STRANGER:
316 State|           are a strange crew.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Why strange?~STRANGER:
317 State|         forms and natures; and now, Socrates, I begin to see who they
318 State|             see who they are.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Who are they? You seem
319 State|     politician and his troop.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Who is he?~STRANGER: The
320 State|          the present enquiry.~YOUNG SOCRATES: That is a hope not lightly
321 State|           ask you a question.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What?~STRANGER: Is not
322 State|           form of government?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: And, after
323 State|        government of the few?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Of course.~STRANGER: Is
324 State|            name of democracy?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: And
325 State|   themselves two other names?~YOUNG SOCRATES: What are they?~YOUNG SOCRATES:
326 State|      SOCRATES: What are they?~YOUNG SOCRATES: What are they?~STRANGER:
327 State|          royalty and tyranny.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: And
328 State|    aristocracy and oligarchy.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: Democracy
329 State|            has the same name.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: But do
330 State|           can be a right one?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Why not?~STRANGER: Reflect;
331 State|       Reflect; and follow me.~YOUNG SOCRATES: In what direction?~STRANGER:
332 State|            retract our words?~YOUNG SOCRATES: To what do you refer?~STRANGER:
333 State|          power was a science?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: And a science
334 State|            and authoritative?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: And there
335 State|           particular science?~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: Hence we
336 State|            what has preceded.~YOUNG SOCRATES: And we must be consistent.~
337 State|           from the wise king.~YOUNG SOCRATES: That, as the argument has
338 State|            political science?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Impossible.~STRANGER: But,
339 State|             fifty, who could?~YOUNG SOCRATES: In that case political
340 State|           any rate, of a few.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: And
341 State|         other art of command.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Quite true.~STRANGER: Then
342 State|          notion of the ruler.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: And whether
343 State|   imitations like the others.~YOUNG SOCRATES: I agree, Stranger, in the
344 State|         have been too quick for me, Socrates; I was just going to ask
345 State|      government without laws.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: There
346 State|          you see why this is?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Why?~STRANGER: Because
347 State|            last for all time.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Of course not.~STRANGER:
348 State|       commanded for some one.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly; the law treats
349 State|            reverse of simple.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: Then if
350 State|           to be investigated.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: Let
351 State|      wrestling, and the like?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes; they are very common
352 State|             Can you remember?~YOUNG SOCRATES: To what do you refer?~STRANGER:
353 State|         benefit the majority.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: And
354 State|       bodily exercise may be.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: And now
355 State|         each particular case.~YOUNG SOCRATES: He cannot be expected to
356 State|       customs of the country.~YOUNG SOCRATES: He will be right.~STRANGER:
357 State|       particulars of his duty? Who, Socrates, would be equal to such
358 State|             of a written law.~YOUNG SOCRATES: So I should infer from
359 State|             going to be said.~YOUNG SOCRATES: And what is that?~STRANGER:
360 State|           pupils or patients.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: But what
361 State|           utterly ridiculous?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Utterly.~STRANGER: And
362 State|      ridiculous as the other?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: Do
363 State|            which is in point?~YOUNG SOCRATES: I do not recall what you
364 State|            but not otherwise.~YOUNG SOCRATES: And are they not right?~
365 State|           previous instances.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What do you mean?~STRANGER:
366 State|      aggravating his disease.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Most true.~STRANGER: In
367 State|       disgrace, or injustice.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Quite true.~STRANGER: And
368 State|            who compelled him.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: And
369 State|             from being worse.~YOUNG SOCRATES: No one can deny what has
370 State|          the other statement.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What was it?~STRANGER:
371 State|           some for the worse.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What do you mean? I cannot
372 State|      prevails in this matter.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What do you mean?~STRANGER:
373 State|           thing in the world.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What is this?~STRANGER:
374 State|         call the second best?~YOUNG SOCRATES: By all means.~STRANGER:
375 State|             kings and rulers.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What images?~STRANGER:
376 State|            image of the king.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What sort of an image?~
377 State|           after this fashion.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What a strange notion!~
378 State|            the written rules.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Worse and worse.~STRANGER:
379 State|             to suffer or pay.~YOUNG SOCRATES: He who is willing to take
380 State|         were the mode of procedure, Socrates, about these sciences and
381 State|          would be the result?~YOUNG SOCRATES: All the arts would utterly
382 State|         evil than the former?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: To
383 State|     adherence to written law?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: Therefore,
384 State|             respect whatever.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: The laws
385 State|           who have knowledge?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly they would.~STRANGER:
386 State|      absence would be better.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes, we said so.~STRANGER:
387 State|           the true Statesman?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: If
388 State|          imitation no longer.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Quite true.~STRANGER: And
389 State|       already admitted by us.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes, it has.~STRANGER:
390 State|             by the other mob.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Impossible.~STRANGER: Then
391 State|             national customs.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very good.~STRANGER: When
392 State|          the laws, oligarchy.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: Or again,
393 State|            or with knowledge.~YOUNG SOCRATES: To be sure.~STRANGER: And
394 State|         reckoned, become one.~YOUNG SOCRATES: That is true.~STRANGER:
395 State|           be called a tyrant?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: And
396 State|            and perfect State.~YOUNG SOCRATES: To be sure.~STRANGER: But
397 State|           form of government.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: And when
398 State|         from action, can we wonder, Socrates, at the miseries which there
399 State|            perfect knowledge.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: Then
400 State|           we must examine it.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes, we must.~STRANGER:
401 State|      hardest and the easiest.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What do you mean?~STRANGER:
402 State|             rule of the many.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: If we divide
403 State|   distinguished as a seventh.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How would you make the
404 State|          must now be divided.~YOUNG SOCRATES: On what principle of division?~
405 State|          well as to the rest.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: The division
406 State|         will bisect them all.~YOUNG SOCRATES: That would seem to follow,
407 State|    oppressive to the subject.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: The government
408 State|             God is among men.~YOUNG SOCRATES: You are quite right, and
409 State|         greatest of Sophists.~YOUNG SOCRATES: The name of Sophist after
410 State|            political science.~YOUNG SOCRATES: So I perceive.~STRANGER:
411 State|             of refining gold.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What is your meaning?~STRANGER:
412 State|           is left quite pure.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes, that is the way in
413 State|          alone and unalloyed?~YOUNG SOCRATES: That is obviously what
414 State|         answer me a question.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What question?~STRANGER:
415 State|   handicraft arts in general?~YOUNG SOCRATES: There is.~STRANGER: And
416 State|              what do you say?~YOUNG SOCRATES: I should answer that there
417 State|    different from the others?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: And ought
418 State|            of all the others?~YOUNG SOCRATES: The latter.~STRANGER: You
419 State|             or which teaches?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Far superior.~STRANGER:
420 State|             able to persuade?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Of course.~STRANGER: Very
421 State|          and not by teaching?~YOUNG SOCRATES: That power, I think, must
422 State|           refrain altogether?~YOUNG SOCRATES: To that science which governs
423 State|             will be politics?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very good.~STRANGER: Rhetoric
424 State|            ministering to it.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: But what
425 State|             power or science?~YOUNG SOCRATES: What science?~STRANGER:
426 State|             a science or not?~YOUNG SOCRATES: How can generalship and
427 State|            this or different?~YOUNG SOCRATES: If we are to be consistent,
428 State|            our former notion?~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: And, considering
429 State|          but the truly royal?~YOUNG SOCRATES: No other.~STRANGER: The
430 State|      therefore not political?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Exactly.~STRANGER: Once
431 State|          the righteous judge.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very good.~STRANGER: Does
432 State|            of the legislator?~YOUNG SOCRATES: No; his office is such
433 State|           to the royal power?~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: The review
434 State|           execute his orders.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: And, therefore,
435 State|        their several actions.~YOUNG SOCRATES: I agree.~STRANGER: And
436 State|            may call politics.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Exactly so.~STRANGER: Then,
437 State|             weaving supplied?~YOUNG SOCRATES: I greatly wish that you
438 State|         woven into one piece.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Clearly.~STRANGER: A task
439 State|      appears to be necessary.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly the attempt must
440 State|           to popular opinion.~YOUNG SOCRATES: I do not understand.~STRANGER:
441 State|             a part of virtue?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly I should.~STRANGER:
442 State|             a part of virtue?~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: I shall
443 State|            theory about them.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What is it?~STRANGER: That
444 State|         great part of nature.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How singular!~STRANGER:
445 State|      friendly to one another.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: Then let
446 State|      kindred in some respect.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Tell me how we shall consider
447 State|             opposite classes.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Explain; what are they?~
448 State|          others praised them.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: And
449 State|             they are praised?~YOUNG SOCRATES: I do not.~STRANGER: I wonder
450 State|           passing in my mind.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Why not?~STRANGER: You
451 State|         manliness or courage.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How?~STRANGER: We speak
452 State|        certainly praise them.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: And do
453 State|        strain of action also?~YOUNG SOCRATES: To be sure.~STRANGER: And
454 State|            said of the other?~YOUNG SOCRATES: How do you mean?~STRANGER:
455 State|          indicative of order.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: But
456 State|             terms of censure.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How so?~STRANGER: Too great
457 State|             from one another.~YOUNG SOCRATES: In what respect?~STRANGER:
458 State|             arise among them.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: The difference
459 State|             the most hateful.~YOUNG SOCRATES: To what do you refer?~STRANGER:
460 State|          into that of slaves.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What a cruel fate!~STRANGER:
461 State|       subject it to its foes?~YOUNG SOCRATES: That, again, is true.~STRANGER:
462 State|          towards one another?~YOUNG SOCRATES: We cannot deny it.~STRANGER:
463 State|            endowed with them?~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: Let us
464 State|     consider a further point.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What is it?~STRANGER: I
465 State|          some nature or idea?~YOUNG SOCRATES: To, be sure.~STRANGER:
466 State|           for making the web.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Quite true.~STRANGER: In
467 State|        greatest of disgraces.~YOUNG SOCRATES: That is commonly said.~
468 State|          the yoke of slavery.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Quite right.~STRANGER:
469 State|             following manner:~YOUNG SOCRATES: In what manner?~STRANGER:
470 State|             with human cords.~YOUNG SOCRATES: I do not understand what
471 State|            of heavenly birth.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes; what else should it
472 State|          just now describing.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Likely enough.~STRANGER:
473 State|          the present enquiry.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very right.~STRANGER: The
474 State|             Is not that true?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: And
475 State|            name of silliness.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Quite true.~STRANGER: Can
476 State|          join such materials?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Impossible.~STRANGER: But
477 State|         saying, the divinest?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: Where
478 State|         which are human only.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How is that, and what bonds
479 State|      procreation of children.~YOUNG SOCRATES: In what way?~STRANGER:
480 State|            a serious censure.~YOUNG SOCRATES: There is no need to consider
481 State|         indicate their error.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Quite true.~STRANGER: They
482 State|          feelings of dislike.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How so?~STRANGER: The quiet
483 State|       precisely the opposite.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How and why is that?~STRANGER:
484 State|            downright madness.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Like enough.~STRANGER:
485 State|        paralyzed and useless.~YOUNG SOCRATES: That, again, is quite likely.~
486 State|             offices of State.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How do you mean?~STRANGER:
487 State|          thoroughness and go.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly, that is very
488 State|       public or private life.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly they cannot.~
489 State|       secure their happiness.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Your picture, Stranger,