The Apology
     Part
   1 Intro|               in a formula. The first say, ‘Socrates is an evil-doer
   2 Intro|              about all that he has to say. He will not entreat the
   3 Intro|       inconsiderate.~He would like to say a few words, while there
   4 Intro|           nature to make. He will not say or do anything that might
   5 Intro|               rhetorician, that is to say, he will not make a regular
   6 Intro|       certainly determine; nor can we say how he would or must have
   7 Text |             force of my eloquence. To say this, when they were certain
   8 Text |                what do the slanderers say? They shall be my prosecutors,
   9 Text |            answer. And from what they say of this part of the charge
  10 Text |         knowledge of the kind.~I dare say, Athenians, that some one
  11 Text |       interrupt me, even if I seem to say something extravagant. For
  12 Text |       refutation in my hand. I should say to him, ‘Here is a man who
  13 Text |         confess the truth, but I must say that there is hardly a person
  14 Text |               or soothsayers who also say many fine things, but do
  15 Text |              nothing at all, as I may say, and I was sure that they
  16 Text |             confounded Socrates, they say; this villainous misleader
  17 Text |              corrupt the youth; but I say, O men of Athens, that Meletus
  18 Text |           silent, and have nothing to say. But is not this rather
  19 Text |           court.~What, do you mean to say, Meletus, that they are
  20 Text |      improvers, then. And what do you say of the audience,—do they
  21 Text |         trainer of horses, that is to say, does them good, and others
  22 Text |                whether you and Anytus say yes or no. Happy indeed
  23 Text |               ones? Answer, friend, I say; the question is one which
  24 Text |     unintentionally?~Intentionally, I say.~But you have just admitted
  25 Text |             intentionally, too—so you say, although neither I nor
  26 Text |             you would have nothing to say to me and refused to teach
  27 Text |             corrupt the youth, as you say.~Yes, that I say emphatically.~
  28 Text |               as you say.~Yes, that I say emphatically.~Then, by the
  29 Text |               my charge,—but only you say that they are not the same
  30 Text |            spiritual agencies,—so you say and swear in the affidavit;
  31 Text |             spirits are gods, and you say first that I do not believe
  32 Text |           last of them.~Some one will say: And are you not ashamed,
  33 Text |          listening to my words—if you say to me, Socrates, this time
  34 Text |         Wherefore, O men of Athens, I say to you, do as Anytus bids
  35 Text |              I have something more to say, at which you may be inclined
  36 Text |               you to spare me. I dare say that you may feel out of
  37 Text |            you another gadfly. When I say that I am given to you by
  38 Text |               virtue; such conduct, I say, would be unlike human nature.
  39 Text |               of my accusers dares to say that I have ever exacted
  40 Text |        witness to the truth of what I say—my poverty.~Some one may
  41 Text |         convincing evidence of what I say, not words only, but what
  42 Text |              or other kinsmen, should say what evil their families
  43 Text |              way for him. And let him say, if he has any testimony
  44 Text |             among you,—mind, I do not say that there is,—to him I
  45 Text |              better than women. And I say that these things ought
  46 Text |             been acquitted. And I may say, I think, that I have escaped
  47 Text |           have escaped Meletus. I may say more; for without the assistance
  48 Text |              penalty fairly, I should say that maintenance in the
  49 Text |              wrong myself. I will not say of myself that I deserve
  50 Text |         certainly be an evil? Shall I say imprisonment? And why should
  51 Text |              and cannot pay. And if I say exile (and this may possibly
  52 Text |            their sakes.~Some one will say: Yes, Socrates, but cannot
  53 Text |            tell you that to do as you say would be a disobedience
  54 Text |           that I am serious; and if I say again that daily to discourse
  55 Text |           likely to believe me. Yet I say what is true, although a
  56 Text |               my friends here, bid me say thirty minae, and they will
  57 Text |      detractors of the city, who will say that you killed Socrates,
  58 Text |               I have another thing to say to them: you think that
  59 Text |                if a man is willing to say and do anything. The difficulty,
  60 Text |         suppose: far otherwise. For I say that there will be more
  61 Text |         anything which I was going to say; and yet I have often been
  62 Text |           unconsciousness, or, as men say, there is a change and migration
  63 Text |              that any man, I will not say a private man, but even
  64 Text |          death be of such a nature, I say that to die is gain; for
  65 Text |              place, and there, as men say, all the dead abide, what


Charmides
     Part
  66 PreS |               inferential; that is to say, the members of a sentence
  67 PreS |               things only,—that is to say, of natural objects: these
  68 Intro|               similar spirit we might say to a young man who is disturbed
  69 Text |             cure the headache. I dare say that you have heard eminent
  70 Text |              heard eminent physicians say to a patient who comes to
  71 Text |          treated; and then again they say that to think of curing
  72 Text |        observe that this is what they say?~Yes, he said.~And they
  73 Text |               charm; and this, as you say, is temperance?~Yes, I said.~
  74 Text |               strange thing for me to say of myself, and also I should
  75 Text |               on the other hand, if I say that I am, I shall have
  76 Text |              will not be compelled to say what you do not like; neither
  77 Text |            appears to me to be as you say.~And the inference is that
  78 Text |             his own business.’~I dare say, he replied.~And what is
  79 Text |               I asked; do you mean to say that doing and making are
  80 Text |                he answered; I mean to say, that he who does evil,
  81 Text |            yet, in doing good, as you say, he has done temperately
  82 Text |             the temple; as much as to say that the ordinary salutation
  83 Text |             tell you, Socrates, why I say all this? My object is to
  84 Text |               I have enquired, I will say whether I agree with you
  85 Text |         science of building, I should say houses, and so of other
  86 Text |         replied; and I will do as you say.~Tell me, then, I said,
  87 Text |               about wisdom.~I mean to say that wisdom is the only
  88 Text |              answer, No.~Or would you say that there is a love which
  89 Text |              of its object: I mean to say, for example, that hearing
  90 Text |                that hearing is, as we say, of sound or voice. Is that
  91 Text |          temperance.~Critias heard me say this, and saw that I was
  92 Text |            him to know what he knows? Say that he knows health;—not
  93 Text |      understand what you mean.~I dare say that what I am saying is
  94 Text |               and Critias are, as you say, unable to discover the
  95 Text |               by you daily, until you say that I have had enough.~
  96 Text |           said.~Then I will do as you say, and begin this very day.~


Cratylus
     Part
  97 Intro|            and realism.~We can hardly say that Plato was aware of
  98 Intro|               of language; that is to say, he supposes words to be
  99 Intro|           which, as some philosophers say, is the way to have a pure
 100 Intro|               about words, truth will say “too late” to us as to the
 101 Intro|             original one.~You mean to say, for instance, rejoins Socrates,
 102 Intro|        reality. Nor is he disposed to say with Euthydemus, that all
 103 Intro|               from Homer. Does he not say that Hector’s son had two
 104 Intro|                which, as philosophers say, is the way to have a pure
 105 Intro|              mind’ of Anaxagoras, and say that psuche, quasi phuseche =
 106 Intro|               propitiate them, as men say in prayers, ‘May he graciously
 107 Intro|               as the lovers of motion say, preserves all things, and
 108 Intro|            laugh at such notions, and say with Anaxagoras, that justice
 109 Intro|            that I am inventing, but I say that if kakia is right,
 110 Intro|              ourselves, but I mean to say that this was the way in
 111 Intro|             to a Deus ex machina, and say that God gave the first
 112 Intro|              hear what Cratylus would say. ‘But, Socrates, as I was
 113 Intro|           addressing Cratylus were to say, Hail, Athenian Stranger,
 114 Intro|              true or false? ‘I should say that they would be mere
 115 Intro|             he may go up to a man and say ‘this is year picture,’
 116 Intro|              and again, he may go and say to him ‘this is your name’—
 117 Intro|            that Truth herself may not say to us, ‘Too late.’ And,
 118 Intro|            the body, or rather we may say that the nobler use of language
 119 Intro|            and sounds. ‘The Eretrians say sklerotes for skleroter;’ ‘
 120 Intro|             of a wild beast, shall we say?), he first, they following
 121 Intro|             the other arts, we cannot say: Only we seem to see that
 122 Intro|          before the flood, that is to say, the world of ten, twenty,
 123 Intro|         generated out of pronouns. To say that ‘pronouns, like ripe
 124 Intro|               this sense we may truly say that we are not conscious
 125 Intro|               it is no longer true to say that a particular sound
 126 Intro|            with exceptions. We do not say that we know how sense became
 127 Intro|              that often we can hardly say that there is a right or
 128 Intro|               by accident, that is to say, by principles which are
 129 Text |               fun of you;—he means to say that you are no true son
 130 Text |            one else.~SOCRATES: I dare say that you may be right, Hermogenes:
 131 Text |              horse a man, you mean to say that a man will be rightly
 132 Text |            whole.~SOCRATES: Would you say the large parts and not
 133 Text |            part?~HERMOGENES: I should say that every part is true.~
 134 Text |               and a true part, as you say.~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES:
 135 Text |               SOCRATES: But would you say, Hermogenes, that the things
 136 Text |          agree with him, or would you say that things have a permanent
 137 Text |               will you be disposed to say with Euthydemus, that all
 138 Text |             all.~HERMOGENES: I should say that the natural way is
 139 Text |            name?~HERMOGENES: I cannot say.~SOCRATES: Do we not give
 140 Text |         SOCRATES: Cannot you at least say who gives us the names which
 141 Text |            them?~HERMOGENES: I should say, he who is to use them,
 142 Text |            Then, Hermogenes, I should say that this giving of names
 143 Text |      HERMOGENES: And where does Homer say anything about names, and
 144 Text |               names, and what does he say?~SOCRATES: He often speaks
 145 Text |              you will remember I dare say the lines to which I refer? (
 146 Text |           names?~HERMOGENES: I should say the wise, of course.~SOCRATES:
 147 Text |           wiser?~HERMOGENES: I should say, the men.~SOCRATES: And
 148 Text |           same meaning. Would you not say so?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES:
 149 Text |                Now he and other poets say truly, that when a good
 150 Text |              signifying wisdom. And I say too, that every wise man
 151 Text |         succeed.~SOCRATES: That is to say, you trust to the inspiration
 152 Text |             mean?~SOCRATES: I mean to say that the word ‘man’ implies
 153 Text |             Yes.~SOCRATES: If I am to say what occurs to me at the
 154 Text |              explanation. What do you say to another?~HERMOGENES:
 155 Text |         HERMOGENES: But what shall we say of the next word?~SOCRATES:
 156 Text |      permutation is allowed. For some say that the body is the grave (
 157 Text |               and the next best is to say, as in prayers, that we
 158 Text |               would like to do as you say.~SOCRATES: Shall we begin,
 159 Text |                and had a good deal to say.~HERMOGENES: Well, and what
 160 Text |         already discussed. But I dare say that I am talking great
 161 Text |            Heracleitus is supposed to say that all things are in motion
 162 Text |              is something in what you say, Socrates; but I do not
 163 Text |             deal of truth in what you say.~SOCRATES: Yes, Hermogenes,
 164 Text |             Very good; and what do we say of Demeter, and Here, and
 165 Text |             sure I have, and what you say is true.~SOCRATES: But the
 166 Text |            the explanation.~SOCRATES: Say rather an harmonious name,
 167 Text |      HERMOGENES: Yes; but what do you say of the other name?~SOCRATES:
 168 Text |           noesis), as though he would say: This is she who has the
 169 Text |           HERMOGENES: But what do you say of Hephaestus?~SOCRATES:
 170 Text |                HERMOGENES: Why do you say so?~SOCRATES: The two words
 171 Text |               disciples of Anaxagoras say truly. For the sun in his
 172 Text |             Socrates. But what do you say of the month and the stars?~
 173 Text |               HERMOGENES: What do you say of pur (fire) and udor (
 174 Text |             avoided; for something to say about them may easily be
 175 Text |             mere receptacle; and they say that there is a penetrating
 176 Text |           Well, my excellent friend,’ say I, ‘but if all this be true,
 177 Text |               mind, for mind, as they say, has absolute power, and
 178 Text |           HERMOGENES: But what do you say of kalon?~SOCRATES: That
 179 Text |           HERMOGENES: And what do you say of their opposites?~SOCRATES:
 180 Text |             me of what I was going to say to you, that the fine fashionable
 181 Text |               HERMOGENES: What do you say of edone (pleasure), lupe (
 182 Text |         suppose that some one were to say to you, what is the word
 183 Text |        fitness.~SOCRATES: You mean to say, how should I answer him?~
 184 Text |                What way?~SOCRATES: To say that names which we do not
 185 Text |              true, then I shall again say to you, come and help me,
 186 Text |              carried away— meaning to say that this was the way in
 187 Text |               present enquiry, let us say to ourselves, before we
 188 Text |             the circumstances, as men say, we must do as well as we
 189 Text |          older than we are; or we may say that antiquity has cast
 190 Text |             what Cratylus has more to say.~HERMOGENES: But, Socrates,
 191 Text |          therefore do not hesitate to say what you think, which if
 192 Text |          already find myself moved to say to you what Achilles in
 193 Text |               Yes, Socrates, what you say, as I am disposed to think,
 194 Text |           SOCRATES: Well, what do you say to the name of our friend
 195 Text |               Hermes in him, shall we say that this is a wrong name,
 196 Text |               Socrates, how can a man say that which is not?—say something
 197 Text |            man say that which is not?—say something and yet say nothing?
 198 Text |            not?—say something and yet say nothing? For is not falsehood
 199 Text |            were to take your hand and say: ‘Hail, Athenian stranger,
 200 Text |              know.~CRATYLUS: I should say that he would be putting
 201 Text |               SOCRATES: And you would say that pictures are also imitations
 202 Text |             understand you. Please to say, then, whether both sorts
 203 Text |           first.~SOCRATES: That is to say, the mode of assignment
 204 Text |             May I not go to a man and say to him, ‘This is your picture,’
 205 Text |       likeness of a woman; and when I say ‘show,’ I mean bring before
 206 Text |              not go to him again, and say, ‘This is your name’?— for
 207 Text |               an imitation. May I not say to him— ‘This is your name’?
 208 Text |          imitation of himself, when I say, ‘This is a man’; or of
 209 Text |             the human species, when I say, ‘This is a woman,’ as the
 210 Text |             Socrates; and therefore I say, Granted.~SOCRATES: That
 211 Text |               up of them. What do you say, Cratylus?~CRATYLUS: I agree;
 212 Text |               and think that what you say is very true.~SOCRATES:
 213 Text |               I believe that what you say may be true about numbers,
 214 Text |              under an image. I should say rather that the image, if
 215 Text |               another form; would you say that this was Cratylus and
 216 Text |        Cratyluses?~CRATYLUS: I should say that there were two Cratyluses.~
 217 Text |              or syllables; for if you say both, you will be inconsistent
 218 Text |       acknowledge, Socrates, what you say to be very reasonable.~SOCRATES:
 219 Text |               and of many others, who say that names are conventional,
 220 Text |          great small—that, they would say, makes no difference, if
 221 Text |         saying so?~CRATYLUS: I should say that you were right.~SOCRATES:
 222 Text |             SOCRATES: And what do you say of the insertion of the
 223 Text |    intelligible to both of us; when I say skleros (hard), you know
 224 Text |               so much, still you must say that the signification of
 225 Text |       SOCRATES: I suppose you mean to say, Cratylus, that as the name
 226 Text |               and therefore you would say that he who knows names
 227 Text |          there any other? What do you say?~CRATYLUS: I believe that
 228 Text |               the majority? Are we to say of whichever sort there
 229 Text |          ignorant.~CRATYLUS: I should say not.~SOCRATES: Let us return
 230 Text |               SOCRATES: And would you say that the giver of the first
 231 Text |               a good deal in what you say, Socrates.~SOCRATES: But
 232 Text |          executed?~CRATYLUS: I should say that we must learn of the
 233 Text |       SOCRATES: Nor can we reasonably say, Cratylus, that there is
 234 Text |             followers and many others say, is a question hard to determine;
 235 Text |            CRATYLUS: I will do as you say, though I can assure you,


Critias
     Part
 236 Intro|          Egyptian priests, that is to say, Plato himself, from the
 237 Text |    forbearance for what I am about to say. And although I very well
 238 Text |              me in what I am about to say. Which favour, if I am right
 239 Text |               and not be compelled to say the same things over again,
 240 Text |                then as now—that is to say, about twenty thousand.
 241 Text |       artificial. Nevertheless I must say what I was told. It was


Crito
     Part
 242 Intro|            And although some one will say ‘the many can kill us,’
 243 Intro|    rhetorician would have had much to say upon that point.’ It may
 244 Text |              Then why did you sit and say nothing, instead of at once
 245 Text |               is what the authorities say.~SOCRATES: But I do not
 246 Text |          persuaded, then, and do as I say.~SOCRATES: Yes, Crito, that
 247 Text |              helping you to escape. I say, therefore, do not hesitate
 248 Text |               our account, and do not say, as you did in the court (
 249 Text |     destruction. And further I should say that you are deserting your
 250 Text |          persuaded by me, and do as I say.~SOCRATES: Dear Crito, your
 251 Text |          shall or shall not do as you say. For I am and always have
 252 Text |              not regard what the many say of us: but what he, the
 253 Text |              of just and unjust, will say, and what the truth will
 254 Text |               and what the truth will say. And therefore you begin
 255 Text |   dishonorable.—‘Well,’ some one will say, ‘but the many can kill
 256 Text |            like to know whether I may say the same of another proposition—
 257 Text |             will.~SOCRATES: Are we to say that we are never intentionally
 258 Text |               acts unjustly? Shall we say so or not?~CRITO: Yes.~SOCRATES:
 259 Text |              me hear what you have to say. If, however, you remain
 260 Text |             us to be just—what do you say?~CRITO: I cannot tell, Socrates,
 261 Text |              Tell us, Socrates,’ they say; ‘what are you about? are
 262 Text |              will have a good deal to say on behalf of the law which
 263 Text |           unjust sentence.’ Suppose I say that?~CRITO: Very good,
 264 Text |             by our aid and begat you. Say whether you have any objection
 265 Text |              his hands?—you would not say this? And because we think
 266 Text |          SOCRATES: Then the laws will say: ‘Consider, Socrates, if
 267 Text |               clear proof,’ they will say, ‘Socrates, that we and
 268 Text |          SOCRATES: Then will they not say: ‘You, Socrates, are breaking
 269 Text |           Socrates? And what will you say to them? What you say here
 270 Text |             you say to them? What you say here about virtue and justice
 271 Text |             about justice and virtue? Say that you wish to live for
 272 Text |              all to wrong, that is to say, yourself, your friends,
 273 Text |             the mystic; that voice, I say, is humming in my ears,
 274 Text |           anything more which you may say will be vain. Yet speak,
 275 Text |               if you have anything to say.~CRITO: I have nothing to
 276 Text |              CRITO: I have nothing to say, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Leave


Euthydemus
     Part
 277 Intro|              good nor evil: and if we say further that it makes us
 278 Intro|                but only in itself: or say again that it makes us good,
 279 Intro|         equally careless of what they say to others and of what is
 280 Text |              in their hands; for they say that in a short time they
 281 Text |              I covet, quite, as I may say, in old age; last year,
 282 Text |              shall hear; for I cannot say that I did not attend—I
 283 Text |            entered, who, as you truly say, is very much improved:
 284 Text |             is injured.~They heard me say this, but only despised
 285 Text |              in armour; and I used to say as much of you, for I remember
 286 Text |          their mode of speech: this I say because you may not understand
 287 Text |              serious, and therefore I say that the gentlemen are not
 288 Text |          answered; for every one will say that wealth is a good.~Certainly,
 289 Text |            there? I said. What do you say of temperance, justice,
 290 Text |          about this. What then do you say?~They are goods, said Cleinias.~
 291 Text |             the strangers.~Why do you say so?~Why, because we have
 292 Text |              am delighted to hear you say so; and I am also grateful
 293 Text |               and the rest of you who say that you want this young
 294 Text |             Well, said he, and so you say that you wish Cleinias to
 295 Text |         modesty will not allow him to say that he is.~You wish him,
 296 Text |               would allow me I should say, A plague upon you! What
 297 Text |         Ctesippus; I should be mad to say anything else.~And in telling
 298 Text |          Dionysodorus, do you mean to say that any one speaks of things
 299 Text |            evil?~He assented.~And you say that gentlemen speak of
 300 Text |       persuade you not like a boor to say in my presence that I desire
 301 Text |          describe another thing, or I say something and you say nothing—
 302 Text |               I say something and you say nothing—is there any contradiction?
 303 Text |          falsehood; a man must either say what is true or say nothing.
 304 Text |            either say what is true or say nothing. Is not that your
 305 Text |              I refute you, if, as you say, to tell a falsehood is
 306 Text |           replied, they mean what you say. And now answer.~What, before
 307 Text |              which is alive?~I cannot say that I do.~Then why did
 308 Text |             have a sense;—what do you say, wise man? If I was not
 309 Text |               make us happy?~I should say, no, rejoined Cleinias.~
 310 Text |          Cleinias.~And why should you say so? I asked.~I see, he replied,
 311 Text |            contained in them)—they, I say, not being able to use but
 312 Text |           Indeed, I am; for if he did say so, then in my opinion he
 313 Text |               or Dionysodorus. I dare say, my good Crito, that they
 314 Text |             And would not you, Crito, say the same?~CRITO: Yes, I
 315 Text |          SOCRATES: And what would you say that the kingly art does?
 316 Text |        question about that, you would say—it produces health?~CRITO:
 317 Text |               to do with it? Shall we say, Crito, that it is the knowledge
 318 Text |        Certainly not.~And did you not say that you knew something?~
 319 Text |              A pretty clatter, as men say, Euthydemus, this of yours!
 320 Text |               seeking? Do you mean to say that the same thing cannot
 321 Text |               did you think we should say No to that?~By Zeus, said
 322 Text |          refused, and they would only say in answer to each of his
 323 Text |               and therefore do as you say; ask your questions once
 324 Text |          known all things, that is to say, when you were a child,
 325 Text |           prodigious wisdom—how can I say that I know such things,
 326 Text |              He is the same.~I cannot say that I like the connection;
 327 Text |              from you, Ctesippus. You say that you have a dog.~Yes,
 328 Text |          rather than unarmed.~Good, I say. And yet I know that I am
 329 Text |                Euthydemus, that is to say, if he who drinks is as
 330 Text |              be possible to speak and say nothing—you are doing so.~
 331 Text |              of which is that, as you say, every mouth is sewn up,
 332 Text |              them with me, since they say that they are able to teach
 333 Text |            men who care not what they say, and fasten upon every word.
 334 Text |               but what was I going to say? First of all let me know;—
 335 Text |             been into court; but they say that he knows the business,
 336 Text |          there is reason in what they say, for they argue that they
 337 Text |            wisdom.~CRITO: What do you say of them, Socrates? There
 338 Text |             be any truth in what they say. I do not think that they


Euthyphro
     Part
 339 Intro|             amend the definition, and say that ‘what all the gods
 340 Intro|             time; and he would rather say simply that piety is knowing
 341 Intro|             to many others who do not say what they think with equal
 342 Intro|              and feeling. He means to say that the words ‘loved of
 343 Text |               But in what way does he say that you corrupt the young?~
 344 Text |            which occasionally, as you say, comes to you. He thinks
 345 Text |         madman. Yet every word that I say is true. But they are jealous
 346 Text |             or other, perhaps, as you say, from jealousy, they are
 347 Text |            this way.~SOCRATES: I dare say not, for you are reserved
 348 Text |              only laugh at me, as you say that they laugh at you,
 349 Text |            predict.~EUTHYPHRO: I dare say that the affair will end
 350 Text |           prosecuting my father. They say that he did not kill him,
 351 Text |              shall challenge him, and say that I have always had a
 352 Text |              You, Meletus, as I shall say to him, acknowledge Euthyphro
 353 Text |            but of the old; that is to say, of myself whom he instructs,
 354 Text |             have a great deal more to say to him than to me.~SOCRATES:
 355 Text |             as I am doing; that is to say, prosecuting any one who
 356 Text |               wisdom. What else can I say, confessing as I do, that
 357 Text |            and the like, as the poets say, and as you may see represented
 358 Text |           amaze you.~SOCRATES: I dare say; and you shall tell me them
 359 Text |               then I shall be able to say that such and such an action
 360 Text |          wanted. But whether what you say is true or not I cannot
 361 Text |              with one another? I dare say the answer does not occur
 362 Text |        differences of opinion, as you say, about good and evil, just
 363 Text |           true.~SOCRATES: But, as you say, people regard the same
 364 Text |            EUTHYPHRO: I should rather say that these are the questions
 365 Text |             which they will not do or say in their own defence.~SOCRATES:
 366 Text |             guilt, Euthyphro, and yet say that they ought not to be
 367 Text |          which they do not venture to say and do: for they do not
 368 Text |              unjust, and some of them say while others deny that injustice
 369 Text |              man will ever venture to say that the doer of injustice
 370 Text |               understand; you mean to say that I am not so quick of
 371 Text |               definition so far as to say that what all the gods hate
 372 Text |              EUTHYPHRO: Yes, I should say that what all the gods love
 373 Text |           that of others? What do you say?~EUTHYPHRO: We should enquire;
 374 Text |             SOCRATES: And what do you say of piety, Euthyphro: is
 375 Text |         Socrates?~SOCRATES: I mean to say that the holy has been acknowledged
 376 Text |         propounder of them, you might say that my arguments walk away
 377 Text |               Socrates, I shall still say that you are the Daedalus
 378 Text |                SOCRATES: I should not say that where there is fear
 379 Text |              reverence; and we should say, where there is reverence
 380 Text |               improve them? Would you say that when you do a holy
 381 Text |             some object—would you not say of health?~EUTHYPHRO: I
 382 Text |           must surely know if, as you say, you are of all men living
 383 Text |            easily told. Would you not say that victory in war is the
 384 Text |               tiresome. Let me simply say that piety or holiness is
 385 Text |           therefore nothing which you say will be thrown away upon
 386 Text |             them?~EUTHYPHRO: I should say that nothing could be dearer.~
 387 Text |                SOCRATES: And when you say this, can you wonder at


The First Alcibiades
     Part
 388 Pre  |         compared with his later ones, say the Protagoras or Phaedrus
 389 Pre  |               discussions; but should say of some of them, that their
 390 Intro|             circumstances? ‘I mean to say, that he is able to command
 391 Intro|              know himself; that is to say, not his body, or the things
 392 Text |            Socrates.~SOCRATES: I dare say that you may be surprised
 393 Text |               In the first place, you say to yourself that you are
 394 Text |              you are rich; but I must say that you value yourself
 395 Text |             SOCRATES: Then if, as you say, you desire to know, I suppose
 396 Text |               if the God were then to say to you again: Here in Europe
 397 Text |               but the world, as I may say, must be filled with your
 398 Text |         hearing what more you have to say.~SOCRATES: You do, then,
 399 Text |            pull you by the sleeve and say, Alcibiades, you are getting
 400 Text |             an instance: Would he not say that they should wrestle
 401 Text |         universally right, and when I say right, I mean according
 402 Text |        ALCIBIADES: Yes, certainly; we say that deceit or violence
 403 Text |               the unjust? What do you say to a year ago? Were you
 404 Text |             SOCRATES: And how can you say, ‘What was I to do’? if
 405 Text |            Really, Socrates, I cannot say.~SOCRATES: Then you did
 406 Text |              refuge in them? I cannot say much for your teachers.~
 407 Text |           Greek of them, and I cannot say who was my teacher, or to
 408 Text |               SOCRATES: And would you say that they knew the things
 409 Text |             ALCIBIADES: From what you say, I suppose not.~SOCRATES:
 410 Text |            SOCRATES: In saying that I say so.~ALCIBIADES: Why, did
 411 Text |          ALCIBIADES: Why, did you not say that I know nothing of the
 412 Text |        answerer?~ALCIBIADES: I should say, Socrates, that the answerer
 413 Text |            SOCRATES: Did not some one say that Alcibiades, the fair
 414 Text |               not from me’; nor did I say this, which you erroneously
 415 Text |             and simply request you to say why you do not explain whether
 416 Text |              SOCRATES: What would you say of courage? At what price
 417 Text |               SOCRATES: Then when you say that the rescue of a friend
 418 Text |          deemed singular. For I might say the same of almost all our
 419 Text |            mean, Socrates; why do you say so?~SOCRATES: I am grieved
 420 Text |            ALCIBIADES: Do you mean to say that the contest is not
 421 Text |               to rule us. To these, I say, you should look, and then
 422 Text |                consider that what you say is probably false.~ALCIBIADES:
 423 Text |               or education, or, I may say, about that of any other
 424 Text |             mother of Artaxerxes, and say to her, There is a certain
 425 Text |              He must rely,’ she would say to herself, ‘upon his training
 426 Text |               SOCRATES: But would you say that the good are the same
 427 Text |             doing something, I should say.~SOCRATES: I wish that you
 428 Text | fellow-citizens?~ALCIBIADES: I should say, good counsel, Socrates.~
 429 Text |            Yes, that is what I should say,—good counsel, of which
 430 Text |         absence of disease. You would say the same?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~
 431 Text |          SOCRATES: And what would you say of a state? What is that
 432 Text |         ordered?~ALCIBIADES: I should say, Socrates:—the presence
 433 Text |            not.~ALCIBIADES: I mean to say that there should be such
 434 Text |        SOCRATES: What! do you mean to say that states are well administered
 435 Text |              ALCIBIADES: But I should say that there is friendship
 436 Text |       ourselves?~ALCIBIADES: I cannot say.~SOCRATES: At any rate,
 437 Text |           never know.~ALCIBIADES: You say truly.~SOCRATES: Come, now,
 438 Text |             Yes.~SOCRATES: That is to say, I, Socrates, am talking?~
 439 Text |          SOCRATES: Then what shall we say of the shoemaker? Does he
 440 Text |            then?~ALCIBIADES: I cannot say.~SOCRATES: Nay, you can
 441 Text |                SOCRATES: Nay, you can say that he is the user of the
 442 Text |              SOCRATES: But did we not say that the actual ruling principle
 443 Text |             not.~SOCRATES: But may we say that the union of the two
 444 Text |             SOCRATES: And did you not say, that if I had not spoken
 445 Text |         Consider; if some one were to say to the eye, ‘See thyself,’
 446 Text |            See thyself,’ as you might say to a man, ‘Know thyself,’
 447 Text |                I agree; and I further say, that our relations are


Gorgias
     Part
 448 Intro|       compromises; he is unwilling to say that to do is fairer or
 449 Intro|            could hardly have meant to say that arithmetic was the
 450 Intro|               between them? ‘I should say, Socrates, that the art
 451 Intro|               on him.~‘Do you mean to say that the rhetoricians are
 452 Intro|              witness only,—that is to say, the person with whom he
 453 Intro|               to politics, and I dare say that politicians are equally
 454 Intro|               regard, and therefore I say to you, as Zethus says to
 455 Intro|               the wiser.’ You mean to say that one man of sense ought
 456 Intro|               do you mean?’ I mean to say that every man is his own
 457 Intro|              danger; and this, as you say, is the use of rhetoric
 458 Intro|              diseased in mind—who can say? The engineer too will often
 459 Intro|         become like them. What do you say to this?~‘There is some
 460 Intro|           jury of children. He cannot say that he has procured the
 461 Intro|                have nothing better to say, and no one will ever show
 462 Intro|      utilitarian point of view. If we say that the ideal is generally
 463 Intro|               Neither does he mean to say that Archelaus is tormented
 464 Intro|            others. It is difficult to say how far in such cases an
 465 Intro|             of circumstances; when we say hastily what we deliberately
 466 Intro|              the next generation will say of him; not because he is
 467 Intro|          better part of us would fain say, and the half-conscious
 468 Intro|             with God.’ Plato does not say that God will order all
 469 Intro|          well-governed city (shall we say in a religious and respectable
 470 Text |      dialectic.~POLUS: What makes you say so, Socrates?~SOCRATES:
 471 Text |            was.~POLUS: Why, did I not say that it was the noblest
 472 Text |             he asked you at first, to say what this art is, and what
 473 Text |               SOCRATES: And are we to say that you are able to make
 474 Text |                and you will certainly say, that you never heard a
 475 Text |            understand you, but I dare say I shall soon know better;
 476 Text |              arts I suppose you would say that they do not come within
 477 Text |           wished to be captious might say, ‘And so, Gorgias, you call
 478 Text |         mentioning just now; he might say, ‘Socrates, what is arithmetic?’
 479 Text |             of calculation?’ I should say, That also is one of the
 480 Text |        Concerned with what?’ I should say, like the clerks in the
 481 Text |             suppose, again, I were to say that astronomy is only words—
 482 Text |               of human things? I dare say that you have heard men
 483 Text |            drift?~SOCRATES: I mean to say, that the producers of those
 484 Text |              song praises, that is to say, the physician, the trainer,
 485 Text |              first the physician will say: ‘O Socrates, Gorgias is
 486 Text |             What do you mean? I shall say. Do you mean that your art
 487 Text |             the trainer will come and say, ‘I too, Socrates, shall
 488 Text |           mine.’ To him again I shall say, Who are you, honest friend,
 489 Text |           Consider Socrates,’ he will say, ‘whether Gorgias or any
 490 Text |              wealth.’ Well, you and I say to him, and are you a creator
 491 Text |            What is that which, as you say, is the greatest good of
 492 Text |             rhetoric; and you mean to say, if I am not mistaken, that
 493 Text |              such a one, and I should say the same of you.~GORGIAS:
 494 Text |            the same effect? I mean to say—Does he who teaches anything
 495 Text |             way:— If a person were to say to you, ‘Is there, Gorgias,
 496 Text |             rhetoricians: what do you say, Gorgias? Since you profess
 497 Text |              you, Gorgias?’ they will say—‘about what will you teach
 498 Text |            the use of rhetoric. And I say that if a rhetorician and
 499 Text |               itself; I should rather say that those who make a bad
 500 Text |             to such fellows. Why do I say this? Why, because I cannot