(...) Gorgias
     Part
 501 Text |            willing to be refuted if I say anything which is not true,
 502 Text |              of it.~GORGIAS: I should say, Socrates, that I am quite
 503 Text |        pleased.~SOCRATES: I may truly say, Callicles, that I am willing,
 504 Text |             your words; though I dare say that you may be right, and
 505 Text |       misunderstood your meaning. You say that you can make any man,
 506 Text |             is.~SOCRATES: You mean to say, with the ignorant; for
 507 Text |             the other arts; I mean to say, does he really know anything
 508 Text |             things as well.~SOCRATES: Say no more, for there you are
 509 Text |                and may not go away? I say rather, if you have a real
 510 Text |              POLUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: To say the truth, Polus, it is
 511 Text |               in a book of yours, you say that you have made an art.~
 512 Text |             thing?~SOCRATES: I should say a sort of experience.~POLUS:
 513 Text |             POLUS: Did I not hear you say that rhetoric was a sort
 514 Text |              then?~SOCRATES: I should say an experience.~POLUS: In
 515 Text |               part of what, Socrates? Say what you mean, and never
 516 Text |           SOCRATES: Ignoble, I should say, if I am compelled to answer,
 517 Text |            Indeed, Socrates, I cannot say that I understand myself.~
 518 Text |              in appearance? I mean to say, that there are many persons
 519 Text |             and therefore I will only say, after the manner of the
 520 Text |       rhetoric : justice.~And this, I say, is the natural difference
 521 Text |          SOCRATES: Not if you mean to say that power is a good to
 522 Text |             that is what I do mean to say.~SOCRATES: Then, if so,
 523 Text |            SOCRATES: Why, did you not say just now that the rhetoricians
 524 Text |                SOCRATES: Well then, I say to you that here are two
 525 Text |            call him?—not you, for you say that power is a good to
 526 Text |    congratulate themselves, if as you say, power be indeed a good,
 527 Text |              This fellow—~SOCRATES: I say that they do not do as they
 528 Text |           think best?~SOCRATES: And I say so still.~POLUS: Then surely
 529 Text |           words, good Polus, as I may say in your own peculiar style;
 530 Text |               it; for we will, as you say, that which is our good,
 531 Text |                SOCRATES: No, I do not say that of him: but neither
 532 Text |           friend, when I have said my say, do you reply to me. Suppose
 533 Text |         dagger under my arm. Polus, I say to you, I have just acquired
 534 Text |             because he who did as you say would be certain to be punished.~
 535 Text |            Tell me, then, when do you say that they are good and when
 536 Text |            have the answer from me, I say that they are good when
 537 Text |         miserable?~SOCRATES: I cannot say, Polus, for I have never
 538 Text |          clearly, Socrates, you would say that you did not even know
 539 Text |          happiest of them, and I dare say that there are many Athenians,
 540 Text |          which I stand refuted when I say that the unjust man is not
 541 Text |            Certainly.~SOCRATES: But I say that this is an impossibility—
 542 Text |              good. And do you mean to say also that if he meets with
 543 Text |            other, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Say rather, Polus, impossible;
 544 Text |             the paradox which, as you say, cannot be refuted?~SOCRATES:
 545 Text |              memory a little; did you say—‘in an unjust attempt to
 546 Text |               I did.~SOCRATES: Then I say that neither of them will
 547 Text |        sufficiently refuted, when you say that which no human being
 548 Text |         punished.~POLUS: And I should say neither I, nor any man:
 549 Text |             hear what you can have to say.~SOCRATES: Tell me, then,
 550 Text |               suffer?~POLUS: I should say that suffering was worst.~
 551 Text |         SOCRATES: I understand you to say, if I am not mistaken, that
 552 Text |               SOCRATES: And you would say of figures or colours generally
 553 Text |             both of these; that is to say, in pleasure or utility
 554 Text |          suffering wrong? Did you not say, that suffering wrong was
 555 Text |             Yes.~SOCRATES: That is to say, in evil?~POLUS: True.~SOCRATES:
 556 Text |         without shrinking, and either say ‘Yes’ or ‘No’ to me.~POLUS:
 557 Text |                to me.~POLUS: I should say ‘No.’~SOCRATES: Would any
 558 Text |         supposed. Consider:—You would say that to suffer punishment
 559 Text |              patient?~POLUS: I should say so.~SOCRATES: And will not
 560 Text |               bodily frame, you would say that the evil is weakness
 561 Text |         Socrates?~SOCRATES: I mean to say, that is most disgraceful
 562 Text |            True.~SOCRATES: That is to say, he who receives admonition
 563 Text |          punishment; and this, as you say, has been accomplished by
 564 Text |              diseased body; a soul, I say, which is corrupt and unrighteous
 565 Text |              indeed be useful. Do you say ‘Yes’ or ‘No’ to that?~POLUS:
 566 Text |          joking?~CHAEREPHON: I should say, Callicles, that he is in
 567 Text |              in earnest, and what you say is true, is not the whole
 568 Text |           different persons—I mean to say, if every man’s feelings
 569 Text |               strangeness of what you say from time to time when under
 570 Text |           help saying what your loves say unless they are prevented;
 571 Text |               the same trap. I cannot say very much for his wit when
 572 Text |          because he was too modest to say what he thought, he had
 573 Text |               person is too modest to say what he thinks, he is compelled
 574 Text |              better of them; and they say, that dishonesty is shameful
 575 Text |             now: for I am disposed to say to you much what Zethus
 576 Text |              and not having a word to say; and when you went up before
 577 Text |               different?~CALLICLES: I say unequivocally that they
 578 Text |               of the many is what you say.~SOCRATES: Then not only
 579 Text |          better: do you imagine me to say, that if a rabble of slaves
 580 Text |             me ask you what you would say in this case: Let us suppose
 581 Text |            meaning, perhaps you would say that the wise and good and
 582 Text |               conceal, and hence they say that intemperance is base.
 583 Text |       temperance—to a man like him, I say, who might freely be enjoying
 584 Text |            the argument; for what you say is what the rest of the
 585 Text |             think, but do not like to say. And I must beg of you to
 586 Text |          manifest. Tell me, then:—you say, do you not, that in the
 587 Text |              have heard a philosopher say that at this moment we are
 588 Text |              lives:—And now would you say that the life of the intemperate
 589 Text |               they were too modest to say what they thought; but you
 590 Text |               Or would you venture to say, that they too are happy,
 591 Text |          would still ask, whether you say that pleasure and good are
 592 Text |           sake of consistency, I will say that they are the same.~
 593 Text |            search after truth, if you say what is contrary to your
 594 Text |               SOCRATES: And would you say that pleasure and knowledge
 595 Text |               SOCRATES: And would you say that courage differed from
 596 Text |           friend Socrates, of Foxton, say—does he assent to this,
 597 Text |            former admissions.—Did you say that to hunger, I mean the
 598 Text |            are simultaneous, when you say that being thirsty, you
 599 Text |            are the good—would you not say so?~CALLICLES: Certainly.~
 600 Text |            brave?~CALLICLES: I should say ‘most’ of both; or at any
 601 Text |          departure?~CALLICLES: I dare say.~SOCRATES: Then are the
 602 Text |         SOCRATES: And would you still say that the evil are evil by
 603 Text |           equal degrees? or would you say that the coward has more?~
 604 Text |             more?~CALLICLES: I should say that he has.~SOCRATES: Help
 605 Text |              and thrice over, as they say. Both the wise man and the
 606 Text |                as I understand you to say, I may assume that some
 607 Text |            now mentioning—you mean to say that those which promote
 608 Text |              In the first place, what say you of flute-playing? Does
 609 Text |             SOCRATES: And what do you say of the choral art and of
 610 Text |             SOCRATES: And what do you say of his father, Meles the
 611 Text |               general, what would you say? Have they not been invented
 612 Text |            Very good. And what do you say of that other rhetoric which
 613 Text |               the public in what they say, while others are such as
 614 Text |              citizens, and strives to say what is best, whether welcome
 615 Text |          SOCRATES: And what would you say of the soul? Will the good
 616 Text |         should, I will; and you shall say whether you agree with me,
 617 Text |           true?~CALLICLES: I will not say No to it.~SOCRATES: For
 618 Text |            SOCRATES: Well, but people say that ‘a tale should have
 619 Text |       yourself?~SOCRATES: Must I then say with Epicharmus, ‘Two men
 620 Text |            hear what more you have to say.~SOCRATES: I too, Gorgias,
 621 Text |          order or arrangement? Yes, I say. And that which makes a
 622 Text |               condition which, as you say, is the height of disgrace.
 623 Text |         possibility of denying what I say. For my position has always
 624 Text |           never met any one who could say otherwise, any more than
 625 Text |             SOCRATES: And what do you say of doing injustice? Is the
 626 Text |               still? Surely you might say, Callicles, whether you
 627 Text |             to like, as ancient sages say: Would you not agree to
 628 Text |            you and your friends would say, the end of becoming a great
 629 Text |             would hear me too. I dare say that he will kill him if
 630 Text |               he would have plenty to say. Nevertheless you despise
 631 Text |      mentioning? I know that you will say, ‘I am better, and better
 632 Text |              the better is not what I say, and virtue consists only
 633 Text |              time?—he knows, as women say, that no man can escape
 634 Text |           enchantresses, who, as they say, bring down the moon from
 635 Text |             or worse, then I can only say that you are mistaken, Callides;
 636 Text |             another mind. What do you say?~CALLICLES: Somehow or other
 637 Text |           adversary to me; but I dare say that if we recur to these
 638 Text |             gentle and good. Shall we say that?~CALLICLES: Yes, certainly,
 639 Text |             art! Is not this, as they say, to begin with the big jar
 640 Text |            you answer? Whom would you say that you had improved by
 641 Text |       SOCRATES: Why, surely you would say that he was a bad manager
 642 Text |            received them? What do you say?~CALLICLES: I will do you
 643 Text |               really good men, as you say, these things would never
 644 Text |        SOCRATES: O, my dear friend, I say nothing against them regarded
 645 Text |               mistresses. Now, when I say that all this is equally
 646 Text |             their desires, and people say that they have made the
 647 Text |              SOCRATES: I would rather say, why talk of men who profess
 648 Text |             family and state, then to say that you will give no advice
 649 Text |             entire mind.~CALLICLES: I say then that you should be
 650 Text |               I shall have nothing to say in the justice court. And
 651 Text |               the truth he could only say, ‘All these evil things,
 652 Text |            cry out!~CALLICLES: I dare say.~SOCRATES: Would he not
 653 Text |                And in proof of what I say, if you have no objection,
 654 Text |                then, as story-tellers say, to a very pretty tale,
 655 Text |             pretty tale, which I dare say that you may be disposed
 656 Text |            shall be naked, that is to say, dead—he with his naked
 657 Text |              man or not; and I should say, Callicles, that he is most
 658 Text |              your reproach of me, and say, that you will not be able


Ion
     Part
 659 Text |       SOCRATES: I am glad to hear you say so, Ion; I see that you
 660 Text |              Hesiod have something to say,—~ION: Very true:~SOCRATES:
 661 Text |               of what these two poets say about divination, not only
 662 Text |                Yes.~SOCRATES: And you say that Homer and the other
 663 Text |          attention and have plenty to say?~SOCRATES: The reason, my
 664 Text |             thing which any man might say: that when a man has acquired
 665 Text |           attentive and had plenty to say?~ION: No indeed, I have
 666 Text |              sleep and had nothing to say?~ION: No indeed; no more
 667 Text |                I cannot deny what you say, Socrates. Nevertheless
 668 Text |               better and have more to say about Homer than any other
 669 Text |              same, as they themselves say; for they tell us that they
 670 Text |               Ion, and what are we to say of a man who at a sacrifice
 671 Text |              indeed, Socrates, I must say that, strictly speaking,
 672 Text |           sleep, and know not what to say; but when any one recites
 673 Text |                and you have plenty to say; for not by art or knowledge
 674 Text |          knowledge about Homer do you say what you say, but by divine
 675 Text |             Homer do you say what you say, but by divine inspiration
 676 Text |              mentioned have plenty to say, and have nothing to say
 677 Text |              say, and have nothing to say of others. You ask, ‘Why
 678 Text |           drink (Il.).’~Now would you say that the art of the rhapsode
 679 Text |              suppose that you were to say to me: ‘Since you, Socrates,
 680 Text |              of things which I should say that the prophet ought to
 681 Text |                All passages, I should say, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Not
 682 Text |       Socrates.~SOCRATES: You mean to say that you would exclude pretty
 683 Text |             and what a woman ought to say, and what a freeman and
 684 Text |             and what a slave ought to say, and what a ruler and what
 685 Text |            sea-tossed vessel ought to say?~ION: No; the pilot will
 686 Text |          ruler of a sick man ought to say?~ION: He will not.~SOCRATES:
 687 Text |            know what a slave ought to say?~ION: Yes.~SOCRATES: Suppose
 688 Text |              cowherd what he ought to say in order to soothe the infuriated
 689 Text |               spinning-woman ought to say about the working of wool?~
 690 Text |               what a general ought to say when exhorting his soldiers?~
 691 Text |               what a general ought to say.~SOCRATES: Why, yes, Ion,
 692 Text |              you mean? Do you mean to say that the art of the rhapsode
 693 Text |           rhapsode?~ION: No; I do not say that.~SOCRATES: But you
 694 Text |            that.~SOCRATES: But you do say that he who is a good rhapsode
 695 Text |            dishonesty, and shall only say that you are inspired. Which


Laches
     Part
 696 Intro|           past or present; that is to say, of all good and evil. Courage,
 697 Intro|            What do the Lacedaemonians say?’ The one is the thoughtful
 698 Text |               they are asked will not say what they think. They guess
 699 Text |             are good judges, and will say exactly what you think,
 700 Text |               man to learn. Please to say whether you agree to our
 701 Text |              one another out, do as I say—come and make acquaintance
 702 Text |            you of your duty. But what say you of the matter of which
 703 Text |          first what my elders have to say, and to learn of them, and
 704 Text |            the right time; that is to say, at the time when his appearance
 705 Text |            then, Lysimachus, is, as I say, that the youths should
 706 Text |           glad to hear what he has to say.~LACHES: I should not like
 707 Text |             the use of learning it? I say this, because I think that
 708 Text |       medicine to the eyes, would you say that he is consulting about
 709 Text |              our teachers were, if we say that we have had any, and
 710 Text |       question them. I would have you say to them: Socrates avers
 711 Text |                LYSIMACHUS: Why do you say that, Nicias?~NICIAS: Because
 712 Text |             he will certainly do as I say, and also that I myself
 713 Text |           ourselves; and therefore, I say that for my part, I am quite
 714 Text |          feeling, Nicias, or (shall I say?) two feelings, about discussions.
 715 Text |            merit can give. Therefore, say whatever you like, and do
 716 Text |              ages.~SOCRATES: I cannot say that either of you show
 717 Text |              LACHES: Let us do as you say, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Then
 718 Text |          should I; but what would you say of another man, who fights
 719 Text |        heavy-armed Greek fights, as I say, remaining in his rank.~
 720 Text |              call quickness? I should say the quality which accomplishes
 721 Text |           referring?~LACHES: I should say that courage is a sort of
 722 Text |            question. And yet I cannot say that every kind of endurance
 723 Text |               SOCRATES: And you would say that a wise endurance is
 724 Text |          SOCRATES: But what would you say of a foolish endurance?
 725 Text |                LACHES: I ought not to say that, Socrates.~SOCRATES:
 726 Text |     advantages of position; would you say of such a one who endures
 727 Text |              braver?~LACHES: I should say that the latter, Socrates,
 728 Text |              SOCRATES: Then you would say that he who in an engagement
 729 Text |        knowledge?~LACHES: So I should say.~SOCRATES: And he who endures,
 730 Text |            the like, is, as you would say, more courageous than those
 731 Text |         Socrates, what else can a man say?~SOCRATES: Nothing, if that
 732 Text |              our words. Any one would say that we had courage who
 733 Text |              than we are. What do you say?~LACHES: I should like that.~
 734 Text |                I have often heard you say that ‘Every man is good
 735 Text |               and I would like him to say what is the nature of this
 736 Text |             wisdom.~NICIAS: I mean to say, Laches, that courage is
 737 Text |        Socrates.~SOCRATES: Why do you say so, Laches?~LACHES: Why,
 738 Text |          NICIAS: What! do you mean to say that the soothsayer ought
 739 Text |          NICIAS: Much rather I should say he of whom I speak; for
 740 Text |         character, unless he means to say that he is a god. My opinion
 741 Text |            you courageous. And this I say not as a joke, but because
 742 Text |             for I am quite willing to say of you and also of Lamachus,
 743 Text |             me about the parts? For I say that justice, temperance,
 744 Text |             as courage. Would you not say the same?~NICIAS: Certainly.~
 745 Text |          terrible things, as I should say, are the evils which are
 746 Text |        courage, my friend, is, as you say, a knowledge of the fearful
 747 Text |        reference to time. What do you say to that alteration in your
 748 Text |             deal of truth in what you say.~SOCRATES: But then, Nicias,
 749 Text |              many others. What do you say, Socrates—will you comply?


Laws
     Book
 750 1    |           comes, I believe they would say that Apollo is their lawgiver:
 751 1    |            these institutions, I dare say that you will not be unwilling
 752 1    |               could any Lacedaemonian say anything else?~Athenian.
 753 1    |             Athenian. And is what you say applicable only to states,
 754 1    |              own enemy:—what shall we say?~Cleinias. O Athenian Stranger—
 755 1    |              his own inferior, may we say that there is the same principle
 756 1    |      understand your meaning when you say that citizens who are of
 757 1    |              laws.~Cleinias. What you say, Stranger, is most true.~
 758 1    |        necessity; a man might as well say that the body was in the
 759 1    |       Lacedaemonian.~Athenian. I dare say; but there is no reason
 760 1    |             most divine poet, we will say to him, the excellent praise
 761 1    |             of war; or what would you say? A far inferior man to Tyrtaeus
 762 1    |     expressions of yours in which you say that you abominate those~
 763 1    |              shall naturally go on to say to him—You, Tyrtaeus, as
 764 1    |       Athenian. They are good; but we say that there are still better
 765 1    |            Cleinias. What ought we to say then?~Athenian. What truth
 766 1    |               wax?~Megillus. I should say the latter.~Athenian. In
 767 1    |              pain?~Cleinias. I should say the man who is overcome
 768 1    |           Able to meet both, I should say.~Athenian. Then let me once
 769 1    |       Stranger, and we will do as you say.~Athenian. At our time of
 770 1    |           either of you what the many say about them. For assuming
 771 1    |             of the legislator, and to say what is most true.~Athenian.
 772 1    |            however, I am not going to say anything against your laws
 773 1    |               first hearing, what you say appears to be the truth;
 774 1    |             to answer; still I should say that the common meals and
 775 1    |            another; and we can hardly say that any one course of treatment
 776 1    |             and I hardly know what to say in answer to you; but still
 777 1    |          countrymen, for they, as you say, altogether abstain? But
 778 1    |                my good friend, do not say that; there have been, as
 779 1    |               and therefore we cannot say that victory or defeat in
 780 1    |             institution in itself and say nothing, at present, of
 781 1    |              and defeats. Let us only say that such and such a custom
 782 1    |          disputed by us. Now I cannot say that I shall be satisfied,
 783 1    |              sick or not? What do you say?~Megillus. I say that he
 784 1    |               do you say?~Megillus. I say that he is not a good captain
 785 1    |          Athenian. And what would you say of the commander of an army?
 786 1    |          Athenian. And what would you say of some one who blames or
 787 1    |             to suppose that what they say is of any value?~Megillus.
 788 1    |             wherever I went, as I may say, and never did I see or
 789 1    |               Explain; For we, as you say, from our inexperience in
 790 1    |              all this. What would you say then to leaving these matters
 791 1    |               Athenians, they used to say to me—”See, Megillus, how
 792 1    |              I shall like to hear you say whatever you have to say.~
 793 1    |              say whatever you have to say.~Cleinias. Yes, Stranger;
 794 1    |              you have heard me speak, say boldly what is in your thoughts.
 795 1    |          Athenian. And what would you say about the body, my friend?
 796 1    |        thought evil, because we do or say some dishonourable thing,
 797 1    |          courage? Might we not go and say to him, “O legislator, whether
 798 1    |           return to the lawgiver, and say to him:—”Well, lawgiver,
 799 1    |                I suppose that he will say, Yes—meaning that wine is
 800 1    |        respect, and is ready to do or say anything.~Cleinias. I think
 801 1    |         possible, and to be afraid to say or suffer or do anything
 802 2    |        perceptions of children, and I say that they are the forms
 803 2    |        declining in years; and we may say that he who possesses them,
 804 2    |             to nature or not. For men say that the young of all creatures
 805 2    |              us, the Gods, who, as we say, have been appointed to
 806 2    |            and the Muses? What do you say?~Cleinias. I assent.~Athenian.
 807 2    |             not to be tedious, let us say that the figures and melodies
 808 2    |       character. And yet most persons say, that the excellence of
 809 2    |          pleased at another. For they say that all these imitations
 810 2    |             not the word, but I would say, rather, “I am certain.”
 811 2    |             Athenian. I should rather say, How statesmanlike, how
 812 2    |                May we not confidently say that the true use of music
 813 2    |               altogether unmeaning to say, as the common people do
 814 2    |               as the aged—in order, I say, to produce this effect,
 815 2    |              you compel your poets to say that the good man, if he
 816 2    |               immortal. But you and I say, that while to the just
 817 2    |          Cleinias. How can I possibly say so?~Athenian. How! Then
 818 2    |               land who should dare to say that there are bad men who
 819 2    | Lacedaemonians of this age, and I may say, indeed, from the world
 820 2    |              them, and suppose him to say again that he who leads
 821 2    |               from pleasure? Shall we say that glory and fame, coming
 822 2    |               legislator. Or shall we say that the not–doing of wrong
 823 2    |        Cleinias. I assent to what you say.~Athenian. First will enter
 824 2    |           understand what you mean to say about them.~Athenian. And
 825 2    |               and Dionysus, as I dare say that you will remember,
 826 2    |              ashamed to sing—I do not say before a large audience,
 827 2    |              chorus.~Athenian. I dare say; for you have never acquired
 828 2    |         impart it to those who, as we say, are ashamed of these, and
 829 2    |           them;—for example, I should say that eating and drinking,
 830 2    |         Athenian. Thus, too, I should say that learning has a certain
 831 2    |             Very true; and may we not say that in everything imitated,
 832 2    |               within him, and he will say anything and will be restrained
 833 2    |              Athenian. And did we not say that the sense of harmony
 834 2    |        understand and accept what you say not only as an answer, but
 835 2    |              understand me; do as you say.~Athenian. I will; and there
 836 2    |       Cleinias. What more have you to say?~Athenian. I should say
 837 2    |               say?~Athenian. I should say that if a city seriously
 838 2    |               wine, so that if what I say is true, no city will need
 839 3    |               it?~Athenian. I mean to say that those who then escaped
 840 3    |               entirely lost, as I may say, with the loss of the arts,
 841 3    |           respects, would they not, I say, be simpler and more manly,
 842 3    |       Lacedaemon; which, as you truly say, is in laws and in institutions
 843 3    |                Athenian. Many persons say that legislators ought to
 844 3    |              to the same point, and I say once more, in jest if you
 845 3    |            Cleinias; let us do as you say.~Cleinias. By all means,
 846 3    |              same train of thought, I say that the greatest ignorance
 847 3    |              me in what I am about to say; for my opinion is—~Cleinias.
 848 3    |           Athenian. “Then now,” as we say playfully to any of those
 849 3    |            easily know and may easily say what ought to have been
 850 3    |            child of excess. I mean to say, my dear friends, that there
 851 3    |                indeed, can we rightly say that Hellas repelled the
 852 3    |               should consider when we say that temperance is to be
 853 3    |              Cleinias. What makes you say so?~Athenian. I think that
 854 3    |              Might we not most justly say: “O Darius, how came you
 855 3    |            thus educated. And this, I say, is what the legislator
 856 3    |               really last, may we not say, that he or the state is
 857 3    |           arguments have good deal to say for themselves.~Megillus.
 858 3    |           laws about music—that is to say, such music as then existed—
 859 4    |           that.~Athenian. You mean to say that there is more rock
 860 4    |           near, especially if, as you say, the harbours are so good.
 861 4    |              dishonourable, as people say, at certain times. This
 862 4    |        barbarians. But Megillus and I say rather, that the battle
 863 4    |              them no better, if I may say so without offence about
 864 4    |            and pull together, as they say of horses, is a most difficult
 865 4    |           should like to know why you say so.~Athenian. My good friend,
 866 4    |         speculations is leading me to say something depreciatory of
 867 4    |              Athenian. I was going to say that man never legislates,
 868 4    |              there also; for I should say that in a storm there must
 869 4    |            Come, legislator,” we will say to him; “what are the conditions
 870 4    |                Yes.~Athenian. He will say—”Give me a state which is
 871 4    |              You would assume, as you say, a tyrant who was young,
 872 4    |         number.~Cleinias. You mean to say, I suppose, that the best
 873 4    |              Not so; I mean rather to say that the change is best
 874 4    |            Cleinias. No, and I cannot say that I have any great desire
 875 4    |              I perceive that I cannot say, without more thought, what
 876 4    |            sudden, I cannot precisely say which form of government
 877 4    |               the point at issue. Men say that the law ought not to
 878 4    |                I will:—”Surely,” they say, “the governing power makes
 879 4    |               are simply unmeaning. I say this, because I am going
 880 4    |               Athenian. “Friends,” we say to them,—”God, as the old
 881 4    |            the guide of others, he, I say, is left deserted of God;
 882 4    |              not man, as men commonly say (Protagoras): the words
 883 4    |              own life—these things, I say, the laws, as we proceed
 884 4    |              with the legislator, and say to him—”O, legislator, speak;
 885 4    |             you know what we ought to say and do, you can surely tell.”~
 886 4    |            legislator must not barely say “a moderate funeral,” but
 887 4    |           preface to his laws, but to say at once Do this, avoid that—
 888 4    |              remedies. What I mean to say is, that besides doctors
 889 4    |          inferior?~Cleinias. I should say, Stranger, that the double
 890 4    |               his command, that is to say, the law. And therefore,
 891 4    |              argument, and, as people say in play, make a second and
 892 5    |               may like. But I mean to say that in acting thus he injures
 893 5    |              virtue. In a word, I may say that he who does not estimate
 894 5    |             man; for no one, as I may say, ever considers that which
 895 5    |             such men by nature do and say to one another—a suffering
 896 5    |               poured out; wherefore I say that good men ought, when
 897 5    |             is departing. Therefore I say that a man should refrain
 898 5    |             we wish for any others, I say that we desire them only
 899 5    |               them a law, choosing, I say, the dear and the pleasant
 900 5    |         happiest way possible? Let us say that the temperate life
 901 5    |          pleasant life. And we should say that the temperate life
 902 5    |             us, and yet we had better say how, if we had not escaped,
 903 5    |            this is possible or not, I say that no man, acting upon
 904 5    |         Wherefore our citizens, as we say, should have a coin passing
 905 5    |              and slight. Therefore we say that gold and silver ought
 906 5    |              heart what I am going to say. Once more, then, the legislator
 907 5    |                O my friends,” he will say to us, “do not suppose me
 908 5    |       excellent, and I will do as you say.~  ~
 909 6    |              let us stop a little and say a word in season about the
 910 6    |        Cleinias. What have you got to say?~Athenian. This is what
 911 6    |                This is what I have to say; every one can see, that
 912 6    |             elections of the state; I say, if this could be accomplished,
 913 6    |               of the Cretans, I shall say to them, inasmuch as the
 914 6    |         Cnosians themselves. These, I say, on their arrival, should
 915 6    |             the one part by those who say he has no skill, and defended
 916 6    |               other hand by those who say that he has. Ten are to
 917 6    |               also of men. Man, as we say, is a tame or civilized
 918 6    |           also as magistrates, let us say who are fit to be judges,
 919 6    |          should finish what he has to say, and not leave the work
 920 6    |             course.~Athenian. We will say to them—O friends and saviours
 921 6    |        Athenian. I thank you. We will say to him who is born of good
 922 6    |           already spoken; and again I say for the instruction of poor
 923 6    |           give them increase, who can say? Moreover, they ought not
 924 6    |             is not right; for what we say about our slaves is consistent
 925 6    |         Athenian. But may we not also say that the soul of the slave
 926 6    |              many. Still I cannot but say what appears to me to be
 927 6    |            order in all things; he, I say, who gives up the control
 928 6    |             into the fire,” as people say, or performing any other
 929 6    |              to hear what you have to say.~Athenian. Very good; and
 930 6    |              Athenian. Some one might say to us, What is the drift
 931 6    |         contrary of esteem—that is to say, disesteem. Now, if the
 932 7    |            sake of health, that is to say, not their own, health,
 933 7    |            True.~Athenian. And we may say that the use of exercise
 934 7    |        rightly ascribe to God. Now, I say, he among men, too, who
 935 7    |             to be ridiculous, I would say that a woman during her
 936 7    |           ones.~Athenian. Now we must say what has yet to be said
 937 7    |            although you have heard me say the same before that caution
 938 7    |            Cleinias. What have you to say, Stranger?~Athenian. I say
 939 7    |            say, Stranger?~Athenian. I say that in states generally
 940 7    |          special honour, we may truly say that no greater evil can
 941 7    |          disposed to receive what you say not unfavourably but most
 942 7    |               characters in men? What say you?~Cleinias. That is the
 943 7    |              with others, and he will say to himself and them, “Which
 944 7    |              be confident that we can say anything certain all in
 945 7    |          burnt according to law—if, I say, any one who may be a son
 946 7    |           type, and model—What do you say?~Cleinias. Let it be so,
 947 7    |                Certainly.~Athenian. I say that about serious matters
 948 7    |        pursuits. And therefore, as we say, every one of us should
 949 7    |           what you would next wish to say.~Athenian. I should wish
 950 7    |            Athenian. I should wish to say, Cleinias, as I said before,
 951 7    |               legislators, but I must say what I think. The legislator
 952 7    |             to what I am now going to say:—We were telling you, in
 953 7    |               of the lyre. But now we say that he ought to attend
 954 7    |       Athenian. And I do not faint; I say, indeed, that we have a
 955 7    |             bad imitation, that is to say, the imitation of the good
 956 7    |             if not, it is not meet to say, nor do we say, what will
 957 7    |            not meet to say, nor do we say, what will follow, lest
 958 7    |             limbs of the body—that, I say, is the true sort; but the
 959 7    |               those in which, as they say, they imitate drunken men,
 960 7    |            may not in ignorance do or say anything which is ridiculous
 961 7    |               tragedy, come to us and say—”O strangers, may we go
 962 7    |            Best of strangers, we will say to them, we also according
 963 7    |       constrains us, against which we say that no God contends, or
 964 7    |       Hellenes.~Cleinias. About what? Say, Stranger, what you mean.~
 965 7    |             Yes.~Athenian. That is to say, length is naturally commensurable
 966 7    |         compatriots; and might we not say to them:—O ye best of Hellenes,
 967 7    |            draughts.~Cleinias. I dare say; and these pastimes are
 968 7    |              of another mind, let him say what he has to say.~Cleinias.
 969 7    |            let him say what he has to say.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian.
 970 7    |              referring?~Athenian. Men say that we ought not to enquire
 971 7    |             what nature?~Athenian. We say that they and divers other
 972 7    |               quickest. And if what I say is true, only just imagine
 973 7    |              than ludicrous, I should say.~Athenian. At all events,
 974 7    |           welfare: O friends, we will say to them, may no desire or
 975 7    |      poisonous juices. And now we may say that all our enactments
 976 8    |              is omitted. The law will say that there are twelve feasts
 977 8    |        Cleinias. Proceed.~Athenian. I say that governments are a cause—
 978 8    |               legislation; they shall say who deserves to be victor
 979 8    |                But we have nothing to say to the unarmed either in
 980 8    |         plainness of speech, and will say outright what he thinks
 981 8    |               to a principle which we say that a legislator should
 982 8    |            should hinder? What do you say, friend Megillus?~Megillus.
 983 8    |            mastered?~Cleinias. I dare say.~Athenian. And since we
 984 8    |              compact:—surely, we will say to them, you should be better
 985 9    |             names, we will proceed to say what punishments are to
 986 9    |               in a state which, as we say, is to be well regulated
 987 9    |           exhortation:—O sir, we will say to him, the impulse which
 988 9    |           them the law has nothing to say. But to him who is disobedient
 989 9    |              Cleinias. What makes you say, Stranger, that a theft
 990 9    |          rightly worked out, as I may say in passing.—Do you remember
 991 9    |               a hearty laugh—he would say what most of those who are
 992 9    |              Foolish fellow, he would say, you are not healing the
 993 9    |            together. And we may truly say that some of our laws, like
 994 9    |           Excellent; let us do as you say.~Athenian. Then we will
 995 9    |             their minds, no one would say that there was any inconsistency
 996 9    |          Cleinias, and you, Megillus, say to me—Well, Stranger, if
 997 9    |       Stranger, if all this be as you say, how about legislating for
 998 9    |           Stranger; and what shall we say in answer to these objections?~
 999 9    |           certain: either we must not say that all unjust acts are
1000 9    |           wrong in what I am going to say; for I deny, Cleinias and