(...) The Republic
     Book
2001 8    |               Why, you do not mean to say that the tyrant will use
2002 8    |                and may we not rightly say that we have sufficiently
2003 9    |              quarrel against anyone-I say, when, after pacifying the
2004 9    |        Suppose, as people facetiously say, you were to tell me. ~I
2005 9    |            motherland, as the Cretans say, in subjection to his young
2006 9    |           State, I replied, would you say that a city which is governed
2007 9    |            Inevitably. ~And would you say that the soul of such a
2008 9    |           tyrannical man, what do you say of him? ~I say that he is
2009 9    |            what do you say of him? ~I say that he is by far the most
2010 9    |              these owners, the master say of some fifty slaves, together
2011 9    |               he said. ~If we were to say that the loves and pleasures
2012 9    |            tasted-or, I should rather say, even had he desired, could
2013 9    |              my questions. ~Proceed. ~Say, then, is not pleasure opposed
2014 9    |              You remember what people say when they are sick? ~What
2015 9    |               are sick? ~What do they say? ~That after all nothing
2016 9    |              you must have heard them say that there is nothing pleasanter
2017 9    |        neither become both? ~I should say not. ~And both pleasure
2018 9    |             not a reality; that is to say, the rest is pleasure at
2019 9    |               white-can you wonder, I say, at this? ~No, indeed; I
2020 9    |              with him. ~What shall we say to him? ~Let us make an
2021 9    |               I have made them as you say. ~And now join them, and
2022 9    |            maintainer of justice will say. ~And so from every point
2023 9    |           error. "Sweet sir," we will say to him, "what think you
2024 9    |             received? And will anyone say that he is not a miserable
2025 9    |             like that of the best, we say that he ought to be the
2026 9    |             and on what ground can we say that a man is profited by
2027 10   |           like to know what you would say of him. ~Who is he? ~One
2028 10   |               then I suppose you will say that what he creates is
2029 10   |      existence; and if anyone were to say that the work of the maker
2030 10   |           replied, philosophers would say that he was not speaking
2031 10   |            things. ~And what shall we say of the carpenter-is not
2032 10   |              higher in him? ~I should say not. ~The real artist, who
2033 10   |                Friend Homer," then we say to him, "if you are only
2034 10   |         remove from truth in what you say of virtue, and not in the
2035 10   |             what city has anything to say about you?" Is there any
2036 10   |           imitator-can you imagine, I say, that he would not have
2037 10   |           Proceed. ~Of the painter we say that he will paint reins,
2038 10   |            Most true. ~And may we not say the same of all things? ~
2039 10   |      compelled to hear what he has to say, whereas the user will have
2040 10   |           have no sorrow, or shall we say that although he cannot
2041 10   |              you mean? ~The law would say that to be patient under
2042 10   |            degree of truth-in this, I say, he is like him; and he
2043 10   |             if the effect is what you say. ~Hear and judge: The best
2044 10   |              love and honor those who say these things-they are excellent
2045 10   |              betray the truth. I dare say, Glaucon, that you are as
2046 10   |            comparison with eternity? ~Say rather 'nothing' he replied. ~
2047 10   |              the body, then we should say that the body has been destroyed
2048 10   |               unrefuted, let us never say that fever, or any other
2049 10   |             fortunate unjust. I shall say of them, what you were saying
2050 10   |              said of the others I now say of these. And, on the other
2051 10   |           other hand, of the unjust I say that the greater number,
2052 10   |          Certainly, he said, what you say is true. ~These, then, are
2053 10   |              to the body he could not say; only, in the morning, awaking


The Second Alcibiades
     Part
2054 Text |          therefore, Alcibiades, if we say that all who are senseless
2055 Text |             SOCRATES: The latter will say or do what they ought not
2056 Text |              Pal.).)~In my opinion, I say, the poet spoke both well
2057 Text |               if you have anything to say in answer to him, speak
2058 Text |             than either you or I will say that we have no right to
2059 Text |           towards your mother as they say that Orestes and Alcmeon
2060 Text |             we intend either to do or say anything, suppose that we
2061 Text |               so confidently to do or say?~ALCIBIADES: Yes, in my
2062 Text |              SOCRATES:—Such an one, I say, we should call wise and
2063 Text |          confidently propose to do or say?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES:
2064 Text |         gainers?~ALCIBIADES: What you say is very true.~SOCRATES:
2065 Text |  Lacedaemonians?’ ‘We,’ (they were to say,) ‘offer them more and finer
2066 Text |          consider well what we should say and what leave unsaid. Homer,
2067 Text |        proffer. Euripides makes Creon say in the play, when he beholds


The Seventh Letter
     Part
2068 Text |               it. And I was forced to say, when praising true philosophy
2069 Text |             always singing, while you say she is held in dishonour
2070 Text |           rest of mankind-must we not say that philosophy along with
2071 Text |             visit; what I have now to say is this.~He who advises
2072 Text |             not a good one, he should say so, provided that his words
2073 Text |              in need. This we did not say in plain words, for that
2074 Text |           shame upon this city. For I say that he too is an Athenian
2075 Text |             to me, and I might almost say to all mankind, they by
2076 Text |              is possible for a man to say anything positively about
2077 Text |           established, I might almost say, among all mankind and would
2078 Text |               to Dionysios what I did say on that occasion.~I did
2079 Text |             Thus much at least, I can say about all writers, past
2080 Text |          writers, past or future, who say they know the things to
2081 Text |             But the circle itself, we say, has nothing in either smaller
2082 Text |             which is its opposite. We say also that the name is not
2083 Text |               showing, fills, one may say, every man with puzzlement
2084 Text |               of things, he has, so I say, neither heard nor learnt
2085 Text |              to contend with many who say the opposite, and who would
2086 Text |            was the same that I should say my own or that of any other
2087 Text |              object that no one shall say that it is his fault, if


The Sophist
     Part
2088 Intro|          philosophers, of whom we may say, without offence, that they
2089 Intro|               does not really mean to say that the Sophist or the
2090 Intro|             thousands, as Homer would say (mala murioi), tell falsehoods
2091 Intro|            The common logicians would say that the ‘not-just,’ ‘not-beautiful,’
2092 Intro|             an undefined positive. To say that ‘not-just’ has no more
2093 Intro|            not-honourable’—that is to say, that the two cannot in
2094 Intro|         disguise, who, as Homer would say, has come to earth that
2095 Intro|          logical experiment; shall we say an angler? ‘Very good.’~
2096 Intro|              all things.’ You mean to say that he seems to have a
2097 Intro|              Suppose a person were to say, not that he would dispute
2098 Intro|             expressed; for how can we say ‘is,’ ‘are not,’ without
2099 Intro|              please, but he will only say, ‘And pray, what is an image?’
2100 Intro|             in a mirror’; and he will say, ‘Let us shut our eyes and
2101 Intro|             to give him up? ‘I should say, certainly not.’ Then I
2102 Intro|             are right or not, who can say? But one thing we can say—
2103 Intro|             say? But one thing we can say—that they went on their
2104 Intro|              dualist philosophers, we say to them: Is being a third
2105 Intro|        patrons of the one. To them we say: Are being and one two different
2106 Intro|            being are one, or shall we say that being is not a whole?
2107 Intro|          injustice. The soul, as they say, has a kind of body, but
2108 Intro|     distinctions. ‘Sons of earth,’ we say to them, ‘if both visible
2109 Intro|          friends of ideas: to them we say, ‘You distinguish becoming
2110 Intro|            stability. And as children say entreatingly, ‘Give us both,’
2111 Intro|              who affirms this mean to say that motion is rest, or
2112 Intro|            anything of anything; they say that good is good, and man
2113 Intro|              realities. We may almost say that whatever came into
2114 Intro|              life of man. It seems to say to us, ‘The world is a vast
2115 Intro|           never pass away; but can we say that they have the same
2116 Intro|           which we require. We cannot say that physical science, which
2117 Intro|                Neither are we able to say why of the common forms
2118 Text |               name?~THEODORUS: I dare say that the Stranger will not
2119 Text |             the question. What do you say, Stranger?~STRANGER: I am
2120 Text |              shall only beg of you to say whether you like and are
2121 Text |              would rather have my own say.~SOCRATES: Any one of the
2122 Text |             any larger thing? Shall I say an angler? He is familiar
2123 Text |               But if you like you may say that there are no tame animals,
2124 Text |            not among them; or you may say that man is a tame animal
2125 Text |          prefer.~THEAETETUS: I should say, Stranger, that man is a
2126 Text |             do so.~STRANGER: I should say that the habit which leads
2127 Text |       disputation, it is your turn to say.~THEAETETUS: There is only
2128 Text |         caught with one hand, as they say!~THEAETETUS: Then you must
2129 Text |          listen to what I am going to say, and try to divide further
2130 Text |            and glance aside, shall we say that this is the effect
2131 Text |              of instruction, shall we say that there is one or many
2132 Text |              this art? I am afraid to say the Sophists.~THEAETETUS:
2133 Text |               Sophists are the men. I say this provisionally, for
2134 Text |             STRANGER: And what do you say of the visible things in
2135 Text |            one would have anything to say to them, if they did not
2136 Text |           what the craftsman ought to say in answer to any question
2137 Text |         STRANGER: Suppose a person to say that he will make you and
2138 Text |         animals.~STRANGER: Yes; and I say that he is also the maker
2139 Text |              not be, or how a man can say a thing which is not true,
2140 Text |      perplexing question. Can any one say or think that falsehood
2141 Text |          STRANGER: Very good; and now say, do we venture to utter
2142 Text |               who says something must say some one thing?~THEAETETUS:
2143 Text |               singular (ti) you would say is the sign of one, some
2144 Text |             says ‘not something’ must say absolutely nothing.~THEAETETUS:
2145 Text |               the other hand, when we say ‘what is not,’ do we not
2146 Text |               not-being as one; for I say ‘not-being.’ Do you understand?~
2147 Text |       Certainly.~STRANGER: And yet we say that, strictly speaking,
2148 Text |           thus discomfited.~STRANGER: Say no more of ourselves; but
2149 Text |             true.~STRANGER: And if we say to him that he professes
2150 Text |            him an image-maker he will say, ‘Pray what do you mean
2151 Text |              of sight at all; he will say that he is asking about
2152 Text |               really real, if, as you say, not true?~THEAETETUS: Nay,
2153 Text |          sense.~STRANGER: You mean to say, not in a true sense?~THEAETETUS:
2154 Text |         danger lie?~STRANGER: When we say that he deceives us with
2155 Text |      Certainly.~STRANGER: You mean to say that false opinion thinks
2156 Text |         THEAETETUS: Of course he will say that we are contradicting
2157 Text |               Certainly not, I should say, if we can get the slightest
2158 Text |             Yes, a blind man, as they say, might see that, and, unless
2159 Text |                STRANGER: You heard me say what I have always felt
2160 Text |               about them.~THEAETETUS: Say more distinctly what you
2161 Text |             in our part of the world, say that all things are many
2162 Text |           principles is safer, and to say that being is one and many,
2163 Text |             mean?~STRANGER: I mean to say, that when they talk of
2164 Text |              both.~THEAETETUS: I dare say.~STRANGER: And the same
2165 Text |     interrogate them. ‘Come,’ we will say, ‘Ye, who affirm that hot
2166 Text |             what do you mean when you say that both and each of them “
2167 Text |                For clearly you cannot say that one of the two principles
2168 Text |               this question: One, you say, alone is? ‘Yes,’ they will
2169 Text |            thing will be compelled to say that it is the name of nothing,
2170 Text |              STRANGER: And would they say that the whole is other
2171 Text |              would, and they actually say so.~STRANGER: If being is
2172 Text |        understand.~STRANGER: Shall we say that being is one and a
2173 Text |       attribute of unity? Or shall we say that being is not a whole
2174 Text |            Agreed.~STRANGER: Let them say whether they would admit
2175 Text |              do.~STRANGER: Meaning to say that the soul is something
2176 Text |             STRANGER: And do they not say that one soul is just, and
2177 Text |                THEAETETUS: They would say that hardly any of them
2178 Text |              STRANGER: And would they say that they are corporeal?~
2179 Text |             is enough; they must then say what that nature is which
2180 Text |            their mind’s eye when they say of both of them that they ‘
2181 Text |            will.~STRANGER: To them we say—You would distinguish essence
2182 Text |         STRANGER: Well, fair sirs, we say to them, what is this participation,
2183 Text |         STRANGER: They deny this, and say that the power of doing
2184 Text |               some truth in what they say?~STRANGER: Yes; but our
2185 Text |             can be no doubt that they say so.~STRANGER: And is knowing
2186 Text |          share in either; for if they say anything else, they will
2187 Text |                STRANGER: But shall we say that has mind and not life?~
2188 Text |       possible?~STRANGER: Or shall we say that both inhere in perfect
2189 Text |               the notion of those who say that the whole is at rest,
2190 Text |         universal motion. As children say entreatingly ‘Give us both,’
2191 Text |               STRANGER: Would you not say that rest and motion are
2192 Text |           STRANGER: And yet you would say that both and either of
2193 Text |              them are, do you mean to say that both or either of them
2194 Text |            are both at rest, when you say that they are?~THEAETETUS:
2195 Text |             some third thing, when we say that rest and motion are.~
2196 Text |           being?~THEAETETUS: I should say, Stranger, that we are in
2197 Text |              and good is good. I dare say that you have met with persons
2198 Text |           first let us assume them to say that nothing is capable
2199 Text |               STRANGER: Should we not say that the division according
2200 Text |                That is what we should say.~STRANGER: Then, surely,
2201 Text |           than rest: what else can we say?~THEAETETUS: It is so.~STRANGER:
2202 Text |              admit, and not object to say, that motion is the same
2203 Text |             proceed, then. May we not say that motion is other than
2204 Text |               the next step? Shall we say that motion is other than
2205 Text |             like manner, we may truly say that they are not; and again,
2206 Text |          There is.~STRANGER: Shall we say that this has or has not
2207 Text |               is, if I may venture to say so, as truly essence as
2208 Text |            any other class? May I not say with confidence that not-being
2209 Text |             STRANGER: Let not any one say, then, that while affirming
2210 Text |             as he cannot, he too must say, as we are saying, that
2211 Text |              find something better to say; or if he sees a puzzle,
2212 Text |          possible, for to think or to say what is not—is falsehood,
2213 Text |       direction, but he will probably say that some ideas partake
2214 Text |              him, because, as he will say, opinion and language do
2215 Text |         STRANGER: I understand you to say that words which have a
2216 Text |                But what I intended to say was, that a mere succession
2217 Text |         STRANGER: Or, again, when you say ‘lion,’ ‘stag,’ ‘horse,’
2218 Text |               nouns; and therefore we say that he discourses, and
2219 Text |       THEAETETUS: True.~STRANGER: And say that things are real of
2220 Text |           Sophist.~THEAETETUS: We did say so.~STRANGER: And our heads
2221 Text |               or non-fusile, shall we say that they come into existence—
2222 Text |      unintelligent cause. Or shall we say that they are created by
2223 Text |               God?~THEAETETUS: I dare say that, owing to my youth,
2224 Text |             that belief which, as you say, attracts you, I will not
2225 Text |             mean?~STRANGER: I mean to say that you should make a vertical
2226 Text |           STRANGER: And what shall we say of human art? Do we not
2227 Text |          THEAETETUS: Let us do as you say—assign a sphere to the one
2228 Text |          STRANGER: And what would you say of the figure or form of
2229 Text |         himself.~THEAETETUS: What you say is most true.~STRANGER:
2230 Text |           this blood and lineage will say the very truth.~THEAETETUS:


The Statesman
     Part
2231 Intro|             herdsman’s art? ‘I should say, that there is one management
2232 Intro|              water-herds:— I need not say with which the king is concerned.
2233 Intro|             beasts;—in either case, I say, there would be no difficulty
2234 Intro|              the Statesman; but if we say ‘managing’ or ‘tending’
2235 Intro|             weaver’s tools. And if we say that the weaver’s art is
2236 Intro|       standard. Many accomplished men say that the art of measurement
2237 Intro|               laws? The common people say: Let a man persuade the
2238 Intro|       effecting the cure? Or shall we say, that the violence is just,
2239 Intro|             of rest and quietness. We say, how manly! how vigorous!
2240 Intro|           vigorous! how ready! and we say also, how calm! how temperate!
2241 Intro|            may be blamed; but who can say what is excess, unless he
2242 Intro|          Graces. We do not venture to say that Plato was soured by
2243 Text |             of enquiry. And please to say, whether he, too, should
2244 Text |                YOUNG SOCRATES: I dare say.~STRANGER: But yet the division
2245 Text |              STRANGER: Then, shall we say that the king has a greater
2246 Text |              May we not very properly say, that of all knowledge,
2247 Text |              old man. And now, as you say, leaving the discussion
2248 Text |            the error of which, as you say, we were guilty in our recent
2249 Text |              separate name, you might say that here too was a single
2250 Text |          YOUNG SOCRATES: All that you say has been abundantly proved,
2251 Text |             By all means.~STRANGER: I say that we should have begun
2252 Text |               really have done as you say?~YOUNG SOCRATES: What?~STRANGER:
2253 Text |             mean?~STRANGER: I mean to say that merchants, husbandmen,
2254 Text |       STRANGER: But if this is as you say, can our argument about
2255 Text |              summit. Shall we do as I say?~YOUNG SOCRATES: By all
2256 Text |                and remember what they say happened at that time?~YOUNG
2257 Text |          blasphemy. Hence we must not say that the world is either
2258 Text |             mean?~STRANGER: I mean to say that when we were asked
2259 Text |               any special duty; if we say either ‘tending’ the herds,
2260 Text |       SOCRATES: What are you going to say?~STRANGER: That they distinguish
2261 Text |             the State; and may we not say that the art of weaving,
2262 Text |           carder’s art; for we cannot say that carding is weaving,
2263 Text |            Again, if a person were to say that the art of making the
2264 Text |              art of weaving, he would say what was paradoxical and
2265 Text |              sure.~STRANGER: Shall we say that the whole art of the
2266 Text |          STRANGER: But why did we not say at once that weaving is
2267 Text |       accomplished men, Socrates, who say, believing themselves to
2268 Text |             make up a word, should we say that the question is intended
2269 Text |           auditors. Reason would also say to him who censures the
2270 Text |           Very good;—let us do as you say.~STRANGER: The art of the
2271 Text |            yet we are not inclined to say that any of them is a product
2272 Text |             of which I have a word to say.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What class
2273 Text |         having this power; that is to say, not like an instrument,
2274 Text |                this manifold class, I say, which is the creation and
2275 Text |          STRANGER: But what would you say of some other serviceable
2276 Text |          there would be a hundred, or say fifty, who could?~YOUNG
2277 Text |              greater part of what you say; but as to their ruling
2278 Text |          STRANGER: But what would you say, if he came back sooner
2279 Text |           accordance with them; if, I say, the wise legislator were
2280 Text |            the moment.~STRANGER: They say that if any one knows how
2281 Text |               right?~STRANGER: I dare say. But supposing that he does
2282 Text |           absurd thing which he could say about such violence is that
2283 Text |                STRANGER: And shall we say that the violence, if exercised
2284 Text |               or comprising motion,—I say, if all these things were
2285 Text |              highest truths—I mean to say, that they are wholly unaquainted
2286 Text |               must.~STRANGER: You may say that of the three forms,
2287 Text |               be learned;—what do you say?~YOUNG SOCRATES: I should
2288 Text |         latter.~STRANGER: You mean to say that the science which judges
2289 Text |             to be consistent, we must say different.~STRANGER: And
2290 Text |          STRANGER: And do we not then say the opposite of what we
2291 Text |          Quite true.~STRANGER: Can we say that such a connexion as
2292 Text |             in those only, may we not say that union is implanted


The Symposium
     Part
2293 Intro|             at lovers’ perjuries they say Jove laughs’); he may be
2294 Intro|              with one another. I dare say that I have omitted to mention
2295 Intro|               he finds that they only say what is good of him, whether
2296 Intro|              Aristophanes is about to say something, when suddenly
2297 Text |             the greatest pleasure, to say nothing of the profit. But
2298 Text |             doing nothing. And I dare say that you pity me in return,
2299 Text |              is such a fine man. What say you to going with me unasked?~
2300 Text |           unbidden goes.’~But I shall say that I was bidden of you,
2301 Text |          nobly live—that principle, I say, neither kindred, nor honour,
2302 Text |             good or great work. And I say that a lover who is detected
2303 Text |               or old, has anything to say to their discredit; the
2304 Text |               ill-reputed; that is to say, to the self-seeking of
2305 Text |              forswear himself (so men say), and the gods will forgive
2306 Text |           such a voluntary service, I say, is not to be regarded as
2307 Text |               of the earth, and I may say in all that is; such is
2308 Text |         between gods and men—these, I say, are concerned only with
2309 Text |              with one another. I dare say that I too have omitted
2310 Text |               other’s sight, as I may say, even for a moment: these
2311 Text |             lying side by side and to say to them, ‘What do you people
2312 Text |             love. There was a time, I say, when we were one, but now
2313 Text |            they would have nothing to say, after the world of things
2314 Text |      conversing with Socrates. Let me say first how I ought to speak,
2315 Text |            praising everything. May I say without impiety or offence,
2316 Text |               much more which I might say. Of his virtue I have now
2317 Text |             are the lords of the city say, is justice. And not only
2318 Text |                Therefore, Phaedrus, I say of Love that he is the fairest
2319 Text |            gathered anywhere; and you say that ‘he is all this,’ and ‘
2320 Text |             which (as Euripides would say (Eurip. Hyppolytus)) was
2321 Text |            into any rivalry with you. Say then, Phaedrus, whether
2322 Text |          myself: I do not want you to say that love is the love of
2323 Text |           said Agathon.~And you would say the same of a mother?~He
2324 Text |                Probably not, I should say.~Nay, replied Socrates,
2325 Text |               have them. And when you say, I desire that which I have
2326 Text |          there is no love—did you not say something of that kind?~
2327 Text |             not.~Then would you still say that love is beautiful?~
2328 Text |               us assume that what you say is true.~Say rather, beloved
2329 Text |            that what you say is true.~Say rather, beloved Agathon,
2330 Text |              a great god by those who say that he is not a god at
2331 Text |               would—would you dare to say that any god was not?’ ‘
2332 Text |               I imagine from what you say, has arisen out of a confusion
2333 Text |       assuming Love to be such as you say, what is the use of him
2334 Text |          beautiful. But some one will say: Of the beautiful in what,
2335 Text |                or only some men?—what say you?’ ‘All men,’ I replied; ‘
2336 Text |             some of them? whereas you say that all men are always
2337 Text |            holds of love. For you may say generally that all desire
2338 Text |             or to be lovers.’ ‘I dare say,’ I replied, ‘that you are
2339 Text |           added, ‘and you hear people say that lovers are seeking
2340 Text |               their other half; but I say that they are seeking neither
2341 Text |       anything?’ ‘Certainly, I should say, that there is nothing.’ ‘
2342 Text |               she replied. ‘I mean to say, that all men are bringing
2343 Text |             but of Hellas, as one may say? There is Solon, too, who
2344 Text |                And therefore, also, I say that every man ought to
2345 Text |         Aristophanes was beginning to say something in answer to the
2346 Text |           invite them in, but if not, say that the drinking is over.’
2347 Text |             and now, what have you to say for yourself, and why are
2348 Text |             said Alcibiades, and if I say anything which is not true,
2349 Text |         interrupt me if you will, and say ‘that is a lie,’ though
2350 Text |               for the truth’s sake. I say, that he is exactly like
2351 Text |         images of gods inside them. I say also that he is like Marsyas
2352 Text |           that I cannot answer him or say that I ought not to do as
2353 Text |             who has suffered, as they say, is willing to tell his
2354 Text |     philosophy, which will make a man say or do anything. And you
2355 Text |            all of you, and I need not say Socrates himself, have had
2356 Text |        ashamed of what wise men would say if I were to refuse a favour
2357 Text |               are mostly fools, would say of me if I granted it.’
2358 Text |              elevated aim if what you say is true, and if there really
2359 Text |         addresses to him. Wherefore I say to you, Agathon, ‘Be not


Theaetetus
     Part
2360 Intro|              to the book. He seems to say expressly, that in this
2361 Intro|              to his character, cannot say anything of his own knowledge,
2362 Intro|             in love with him; and, to say the truth, he is very like
2363 Intro|                appears,” and when you say “appears to him,” that means “
2364 Intro|             also less,” would you not say?’ ‘Yes.’ ‘But Protagoras
2365 Intro|              subtraction?”’~‘I should say “No” if I were not afraid
2366 Intro|           former answer.’~‘And if you say “Yes,” the tongue will escape
2367 Intro|              mind, as Euripides would say?’ ‘True.’ ‘The thoroughbred
2368 Intro|              in dreaming; and who can say that at this instant we
2369 Intro|     continuity of phenomena; he would say that what is different is
2370 Intro|         Socrates, whether you mean to say that all this is untrue?’~‘
2371 Intro|       non-existence I have nothing to say, or you discourse about
2372 Intro|       proceeds as follows:—‘Should we say that we know what we see
2373 Intro|           foreign tongue?’~‘We should say that the figures of the
2374 Intro|              fairly charged,’ he will say, ‘with an answer which I
2375 Intro|             have extreme precision, I say that man in different relations
2376 Intro|               argument? For he cannot say that no one deems another
2377 Intro|               do you mean?’ I mean to say that a philosopher is a
2378 Intro|     inexperienced creature, unable to say anything personal, when
2379 Intro|          their theory. And did we not say, that all sensations arise
2380 Intro|             and of everything we must say equally, that this is and
2381 Intro|              to have opinion—shall we say that ‘Knowledge is true
2382 Intro|             another. But did you ever say to yourself, that good is
2383 Intro|             the wrong shoe—that is to say, put the seal or stamp on
2384 Intro|             of a man’s soul, as I may say in the words of Homer, who
2385 Intro|               brought all you have to say about knowledge to the birth?
2386 Intro|              experience.’ He means to say that the outward and not
2387 Intro|              by Aristotle; that is to say, he does not attempt to
2388 Intro|           anybody who is not dumb can say what he thinks; therefore
2389 Intro|         mental science. It is hard to say how many fallacies have
2390 Intro|      identical proposition—that is to say, a mere word or symbol claiming
2391 Intro|               is man is unmeaning; to say that he is free or necessary
2392 Intro|              are contained—that is to say, space, which may be explained
2393 Intro|             meaning. We should rather say that without it the mind
2394 Intro|      individual and the universal. To say that we can only have a
2395 Intro|              of our power over it. To say that the outward sense is
2396 Intro|            one another; it is hard to say how much our impressions
2397 Intro|         sensations themselves. We may say with Protagoras and Hume
2398 Intro|               in the past, that is to say, in the history of the individual
2399 Intro|              exact science. We cannot say that words always correspond
2400 Intro|       successive moments, which would say, with Protagoras, that the
2401 Intro|              and divested of them. We say to ourselves on revisiting
2402 Intro|               which we can venture to say that the vestiges are altogether
2403 Intro|    Mathematics are wholes: that is to say, it is not a connected unity
2404 Text |             must not be offended if I say that he is very like you;
2405 Text |             attractions, I may freely say, that in all my acquaintance,
2406 Text |             him.~THEAETETUS: I should say not.~SOCRATES: But if he
2407 Text |            answer that question? What say you? which of us will speak
2408 Text |          shall be donkey, as the boys say; he who lasts out his competitors
2409 Text |              courage, then, and nobly say what you think that knowledge
2410 Text |               you for running, and to say that he never met your equal
2411 Text |              be of good cheer; do not say that Theodorus was mistaken
2412 Text |            not know, Socrates; I only say what I feel.~SOCRATES: And
2413 Text |               and therefore they only say of me, that I am the strangest
2414 Text |              bear.~THEAETETUS: I dare say.~SOCRATES: And I dare say
2415 Text |             say.~SOCRATES: And I dare say too, or rather I am absolutely
2416 Text |             is knowledge?’—and do not say that you cannot tell; but
2417 Text |               or a mere wind-egg:—You say that knowledge is perception?~
2418 Text |          again.~SOCRATES: Does he not say that things are to you such
2419 Text |             cold or not; or are we to say, with Protagoras, that the
2420 Text |      Theaetetus?~THEAETETUS: I should say ‘No,’ Socrates, if I were
2421 Text |             case as this—if I were to say that I, who am of a certain
2422 Text |       trustworthy conception, as they say, can be formed, for the
2423 Text |     THEAETETUS: I do not know what to say, Socrates; for, indeed,
2424 Text |              a great deal in what you say, and I am very ready to
2425 Text |             appears, we should rather say that nothing is which appears.~
2426 Text |            THEAETETUS: I am afraid to say, Socrates, that I have nothing
2427 Text |             of appearance. They would say, as I imagine—Can that which
2428 Text |           SOCRATES: And would you not say the same of Socrates sleeping
2429 Text |          thing is or becomes, he must say that it is or becomes to
2430 Text |       something else; but he must not say or allow any one else to
2431 Text |              or allow any one else to say that anything is or becomes
2432 Text |             and all that company, you say that all is motion and flux,
2433 Text |              have delivered you? What say you?~THEAETETUS: I cannot
2434 Text |             fairness. And now I shall say nothing myself, but shall
2435 Text |          friend.~THEODORUS: Do as you say, Socrates; you are quite
2436 Text |             captandum’ in all this? I say nothing of the ridiculous
2437 Text |               proverbial philosophers say, and therefore I will return
2438 Text |            his behalf, will doubtless say in reply,—Good people, young
2439 Text |             you and Theodorus mean to say that we must look at the
2440 Text |         Certainly.~SOCRATES: Shall we say that we know every thing
2441 Text |           hear? for example, shall we say that not having learned,
2442 Text |              speak to us? or shall we say that we not only hear, but
2443 Text |              not understand, shall we say that we do not see them?
2444 Text |            them?~THEAETETUS: We shall say, Socrates, that we know
2445 Text |               hear of them—that is to say, we see and know the figure
2446 Text |               SOCRATES: Some one will say, Can a man who has ever
2447 Text |               Socrates, would dare to say so?~SOCRATES: But we must
2448 Text |             so?~SOCRATES: But we must say so, if the previous argument
2449 Text |              he who sees knows, as we say, that which he sees; for
2450 Text |              have had a great deal to say on their behalf. But he
2451 Text |       THEAETETUS: He cannot, I should say.~SOCRATES: He can, if you
2452 Text |               with us in disdain, and say:—The worthy Socrates asked
2453 Text |                O my good sir, he will say, come to the argument in
2454 Text |              have no existence; but I say that the wise man is he
2455 Text |              tadpoles: far from it; I say that they are the physicians
2456 Text |           what we really mean when we say that all things are in motion,
2457 Text |               of all mankind, when we say that every one thinks himself
2458 Text |          treat the argument? Shall we say that the opinions of men
2459 Text |                if so, you must either say that the rest of us are
2460 Text |          contend, or rather, I should say that he will allow, when
2461 Text |            true opinion—Protagoras, I say, will himself allow that
2462 Text |             mean?~SOCRATES: I mean to say, that those who have been
2463 Text |             than he can tell, as they say, how many pints are contained
2464 Text |         THEODORUS: I do, and what you say is true.~SOCRATES: And thus,
2465 Text |               has nothing personal to say in answer to the civilities
2466 Text |            the praises of family, and say that some one is a gentleman
2467 Text |               the perpetual flux, who say that things are as they
2468 Text |                O, Protagoras, we will say to him, Man is, as you declare,
2469 Text |       Protagoras (as we shall further say), to the future as well
2470 Text |               yet arguing; but can we say that every one will be to
2471 Text |           unassailable, and those who say that there is clear evidence
2472 Text |            Heracleitus, which, as you say, are as old as Homer, or
2473 Text |           have anything reasonable to say, we shall be in a ridiculous
2474 Text |               the two parties have to say would be quite intolerable.~
2475 Text |           What do they mean when they say that all things are in motion?
2476 Text |      THEODORUS: I think so.~SOCRATES: Say rather that it must be so.
2477 Text |        address ourselves to those who say that all is motion, and
2478 Text |                but I think they would say that all things are moved
2479 Text |               not, they would have to say that the same things are
2480 Text |         concrete instances: I mean to say that the producing power
2481 Text |             distinguished, that is to say, they move in place and
2482 Text |         changed, we should be able to say what is the nature of the
2483 Text |          SOCRATES: And what would you say of perceptions, such as
2484 Text |             is equally right: you may say that a thing is or is not
2485 Text |              becomes’ thus; and if we say ‘becomes,’ we shall not
2486 Text |             the doctrine of those who say that all things are at rest,
2487 Text |          Melissus and the others, who say that ‘All is one and at
2488 Text |             and low sounds?—you would say, if I am not mistaken, ‘
2489 Text |             which is more correct, to say that we see or hear with
2490 Text |            ears.~THEAETETUS: I should say ‘through,’ Socrates, rather
2491 Text |           another?~THEAETETUS: I dare say.~SOCRATES: But through what
2492 Text |       universal?~THEAETETUS: I should say, to that class which the
2493 Text |               SOCRATES: And would you say this also of like and unlike,
2494 Text |               SOCRATES: And would you say the same of the noble and
2495 Text |                SOCRATES: Which, as we say, has no part in the attainment
2496 Text |           clearer view, and once more say what is knowledge.~THEAETETUS:
2497 Text |       knowledge.~THEAETETUS: I cannot say, Socrates, that all opinion
2498 Text |           speak of false opinion, and say that one man holds a false
2499 Text |              THEAETETUS: We certainly say so.~SOCRATES: All things
2500 Text |               determined, must we not say that he who has an opinion,