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(...) The Sophist
     Part
 501 Text |             of our selected classes.~THEAETETUS: Yes.~STRANGER: And the
 502 Text |            of the idea of the other.~THEAETETUS: Quite true.~STRANGER: Then
 503 Text |       reference to each of the five.~THEAETETUS: How?~STRANGER: First there
 504 Text |          rest: what else can we say?~THEAETETUS: It is so.~STRANGER: And
 505 Text |           And therefore is not rest.~THEAETETUS: Certainly not.~STRANGER:
 506 Text |          because partaking of being.~THEAETETUS: True.~STRANGER: Again,
 507 Text |              is other than the same?~THEAETETUS: Just so.~STRANGER: And
 508 Text |              therefore not the same.~THEAETETUS: It is not.~STRANGER: Yet,
 509 Text |          things partake of the same.~THEAETETUS: Very true.~STRANGER: Then
 510 Text |         spoken of as ‘not the same.’~THEAETETUS: To be sure.~STRANGER: And
 511 Text |           calling motion stationary.~THEAETETUS: Quite right,—that is, on
 512 Text |              part of our discussion.~THEAETETUS: Certainly.~STRANGER: Let
 513 Text |            same and other than rest?~THEAETETUS: That is certain.~STRANGER:
 514 Text |            other and also not other?~THEAETETUS: True.~STRANGER: What is
 515 Text |            proposed to make enquiry?~THEAETETUS: Surely we cannot admit
 516 Text |          motion is other than being?~THEAETETUS: Without the least fear.~
 517 Text |           really is and also is not?~THEAETETUS: Nothing can be plainer.~
 518 Text |           they are and are existent.~THEAETETUS: So we may assume.~STRANGER:
 519 Text |           and infinity of not-being.~THEAETETUS: So we must infer.~STRANGER:
 520 Text |          other than the other kinds.~THEAETETUS: Certainly.~STRANGER: Then
 521 Text |              are infinite in number.~THEAETETUS: That is not far from the
 522 Text |             argue with what follows.~THEAETETUS: Nothing can be fairer.~
 523 Text |         consider a further question.~THEAETETUS: What question?~STRANGER:
 524 Text |           being, but only different.~THEAETETUS: What do you mean?~STRANGER:
 525 Text |             more than what is equal?~THEAETETUS: Certainly not.~STRANGER:
 526 Text |            words, which follow them.~THEAETETUS: Quite true.~STRANGER: There
 527 Text |    considered, if you do not object.~THEAETETUS: What is it?~STRANGER: The
 528 Text |            fractions like knowledge.~THEAETETUS: How so?~STRANGER: Knowledge,
 529 Text |              and kinds of knowledge.~THEAETETUS: Quite true.~STRANGER: And
 530 Text |            other, which is also one?~THEAETETUS: Very likely; but will you
 531 Text |            opposed to the beautiful?~THEAETETUS: There is.~STRANGER: Shall
 532 Text |          this has or has not a name?~THEAETETUS: It has; for whatever we
 533 Text |           now tell me another thing.~THEAETETUS: What?~STRANGER: Is the
 534 Text |            to an existing something?~THEAETETUS: True.~STRANGER: Then the
 535 Text |        opposition of being to being?~THEAETETUS: Very true.~STRANGER: But
 536 Text | not-beautiful a less real existence?~THEAETETUS: Not at all.~STRANGER: And
 537 Text |              equally with the great?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~STRANGER: And, in
 538 Text |            existence than the other.~THEAETETUS: True.~STRANGER: The same
 539 Text |        equally be supposed to exist.~THEAETETUS: Of course.~STRANGER: Then,
 540 Text |            what is other than being.~THEAETETUS: Beyond question.~STRANGER:
 541 Text |          What then shall we call it?~THEAETETUS: Clearly, not-being; and
 542 Text |            classes of being. Do you, Theaetetus, still feel any doubt of
 543 Text |              feel any doubt of this?~THEAETETUS: None whatever.~STRANGER:
 544 Text |             Parmenides’ prohibition?~THEAETETUS: In what?~STRANGER: We have
 545 Text |            forbad us to investigate.~THEAETETUS: How is that?~STRANGER:
 546 Text |           from this way of enquiry.’~THEAETETUS: Yes, he says so.~STRANGER:
 547 Text |          ventured to call not-being.~THEAETETUS: And surely, Stranger, we
 548 Text |            in many respects are not.~THEAETETUS: True.~STRANGER: And he
 549 Text |            noble and also difficult.~THEAETETUS: What is it?~STRANGER: A
 550 Text |       approach the problem of being.~THEAETETUS: To be sure.~STRANGER: For
 551 Text |      educated or philosophical mind.~THEAETETUS: Why so?~STRANGER: The attempt
 552 Text |              to discourse of reason.~THEAETETUS: True.~STRANGER: And, observe
 553 Text |          thing mingles with another.~THEAETETUS: Why so?~STRANGER: Why,
 554 Text |         admixture of natures at all.~THEAETETUS: Very true. But I do not
 555 Text |           the following explanation.~THEAETETUS: What explanation?~STRANGER:
 556 Text |             diffused over all being.~THEAETETUS: True.~STRANGER: And thence
 557 Text |           with opinion and language.~THEAETETUS: How so?~STRANGER: If not-being
 558 Text |            of thought and in speech.~THEAETETUS: That is quite true.~STRANGER:
 559 Text |         surely there must be deceit.~THEAETETUS: Yes.~STRANGER: And if there
 560 Text |              and images and fancies.~THEAETETUS: To be sure.~STRANGER: Into
 561 Text |            any way partake of being.~THEAETETUS: True.~STRANGER: And now,
 562 Text |            for him in another class.~THEAETETUS: Certainly, Stranger, there
 563 Text |              end.~STRANGER: Any one, Theaetetus, who is able to advance
 564 Text |              what remains is easier.~THEAETETUS: Very true.~STRANGER: Then,
 565 Text |          neither of them ever false.~THEAETETUS: True.~STRANGER: Then, now,
 566 Text |              answer may be expected.~THEAETETUS: And what is the question
 567 Text |          none, or only some of them.~THEAETETUS: Clearly the last is true.~
 568 Text |        sequence cannot be connected?~THEAETETUS: What are you saying?~STRANGER:
 569 Text |              are given by the voice.~THEAETETUS: What are they?~STRANGER:
 570 Text |          nouns, and the other verbs.~THEAETETUS: Describe them.~STRANGER:
 571 Text |       denotes action we call a verb.~THEAETETUS: True.~STRANGER: And the
 572 Text |             actions, we call a noun.~THEAETETUS: Quite true.~STRANGER: A
 573 Text |              of verbs without nouns.~THEAETETUS: I do not understand you.~
 574 Text |              verbs is not discourse.~THEAETETUS: What do you mean?~STRANGER:
 575 Text |               do not make discourse.~THEAETETUS: How can they?~STRANGER:
 576 Text |             least form of discourse.~THEAETETUS: Again I ask, What do you
 577 Text |              and least of sentences?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~STRANGER: Yes, for
 578 Text |          give the name of discourse.~THEAETETUS: True.~STRANGER: And as
 579 Text |          combine and form discourse.~THEAETETUS: Quite true.~STRANGER: There
 580 Text |             is another small matter.~THEAETETUS: What is it?~STRANGER: A
 581 Text |        cannot help having a subject.~THEAETETUS: True.~STRANGER: And must
 582 Text |             be of a certain quality.~THEAETETUS: Certainly.~STRANGER: And
 583 Text |              mind what we are about.~THEAETETUS: We must do so.~STRANGER:
 584 Text |            whom the sentence speaks.~THEAETETUS: I will, to the best of
 585 Text |              of my power.~STRANGER: ‘Theaetetus sits’—not a very long sentence.~
 586 Text |            not a very long sentence.~THEAETETUS: Not very.~STRANGER: Of
 587 Text |            is what you have to tell.~THEAETETUS: Of me; I am the subject.~
 588 Text |             Or this sentence, again—~THEAETETUS: What sentence?~STRANGER: ‘
 589 Text |            What sentence?~STRANGER: ‘Theaetetus, with whom I am now speaking,
 590 Text |            now speaking, is flying.’~THEAETETUS: That also is a sentence
 591 Text |              have a certain quality.~THEAETETUS: Yes.~STRANGER: And what
 592 Text |              of these two sentences?~THEAETETUS: The one, as I imagine,
 593 Text |              what is true about you?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~STRANGER: And the
 594 Text |             what is other than true?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~STRANGER: And therefore
 595 Text |             are not as if they were?~THEAETETUS: True.~STRANGER: And say
 596 Text |             is and much that is not.~THEAETETUS: Quite true.~STRANGER: The
 597 Text |      consistent with our definition.~THEAETETUS: Yes, this was implied in
 598 Text |             it related to a subject?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~STRANGER: Who must
 599 Text |              and can be nobody else?~THEAETETUS: Unquestionably.~STRANGER:
 600 Text |            no subject is impossible.~THEAETETUS: Quite true.~STRANGER: When
 601 Text |           and truly false discourse.~THEAETETUS: Most true.~STRANGER: And
 602 Text |              both as true and false.~THEAETETUS: How so?~STRANGER: You will
 603 Text |             differ from one another.~THEAETETUS: Give me the knowledge which
 604 Text |            of the soul with herself?~THEAETETUS: Quite true.~STRANGER: But
 605 Text |            audible is called speech?~THEAETETUS: True.~STRANGER: And we
 606 Text |            there exists in speech...~THEAETETUS: What exists?~STRANGER:
 607 Text |               STRANGER: Affirmation.~THEAETETUS: Yes, we know it.~STRANGER:
 608 Text |              to call it but opinion?~THEAETETUS: There can be no other name.~
 609 Text |             not call it imagination?~THEAETETUS: Certainly.~STRANGER: And
 610 Text |       falsehood as well as of truth?~THEAETETUS: Certainly.~STRANGER: Do
 611 Text |         would never be accomplished.~THEAETETUS: I perceive.~STRANGER: Then
 612 Text |             previous classification.~THEAETETUS: What classification?~STRANGER:
 613 Text |           imaginative or phantastic.~THEAETETUS: True.~STRANGER: And we
 614 Text |            should place the Sophist.~THEAETETUS: We did say so.~STRANGER:
 615 Text |           such a thing as falsehood.~THEAETETUS: True.~STRANGER: And now,
 616 Text |              of deception may arise.~THEAETETUS: Quite possible.~STRANGER:
 617 Text |             the likeness-making art?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~STRANGER: Let us,
 618 Text |         kindred dialectical spirits.~THEAETETUS: Very good.~STRANGER: You
 619 Text |            creative and acquisitive.~THEAETETUS: Yes.~STRANGER: And the
 620 Text |           merchandize, and the like.~THEAETETUS: Very true.~STRANGER: But
 621 Text |              and not of real things.~THEAETETUS: Quite true.~STRANGER: In
 622 Text |           are two kinds of creation.~THEAETETUS: What are they?~STRANGER:
 623 Text |          human and the other divine.~THEAETETUS: I do not follow.~STRANGER:
 624 Text |           defined by us as creative.~THEAETETUS: I remember.~STRANGER: Looking,
 625 Text |           vulgar opinion about them?~THEAETETUS: What is it?~STRANGER: The
 626 Text |      knowledge which comes from God?~THEAETETUS: I dare say that, owing
 627 Text |     authority.~STRANGER: Nobly said, Theaetetus, and if I thought that you
 628 Text |          human and the other divine.~THEAETETUS: True.~STRANGER: Then, now,
 629 Text |      sections which we have already.~THEAETETUS: How do you mean?~STRANGER:
 630 Text |          already made a lateral one.~THEAETETUS: I have done so.~STRANGER:
 631 Text |             the gods and are divine.~THEAETETUS: True.~STRANGER: And, again,
 632 Text |              divided into two parts.~THEAETETUS: Tell me the divisions once
 633 Text |            creation and work of God.~THEAETETUS: True.~STRANGER: And there
 634 Text |       creation of a wonderful skill.~THEAETETUS: What are they?~STRANGER:
 635 Text |      opposite of our ordinary sight.~THEAETETUS: Yes; and the images as
 636 Text |             for those who are awake?~THEAETETUS: Quite true.~STRANGER: And
 637 Text |              imitation is concerned.~THEAETETUS: Now I begin to understand,
 638 Text |             the class of real being.~THEAETETUS: Yes.~STRANGER: And this
 639 Text |              different kinds as two.~THEAETETUS: True.~STRANGER: Then, now,
 640 Text |           divide the phantastic art.~THEAETETUS: Where shall we make the
 641 Text |              himself the instrument.~THEAETETUS: What do you mean?~STRANGER:
 642 Text |          part of the phantastic art.~THEAETETUS: Yes.~STRANGER: Let this,
 643 Text |           giving it a suitable name.~THEAETETUS: Let us do as you say—assign
 644 Text |            is a further distinction, Theaetetus, which is worthy of our
 645 Text |        reason which I will tell you.~THEAETETUS: Let me hear.~STRANGER:
 646 Text |            ignorance from knowledge?~THEAETETUS: There can be no greater.~
 647 Text |            know you and your figure?~THEAETETUS: Naturally.~STRANGER: And
 648 Text |          they can, in word and deed?~THEAETETUS: Yes, that is very common.~
 649 Text |              the very opposite true?~THEAETETUS: The very opposite.~STRANGER:
 650 Text |    distinguished from him who knows?~THEAETETUS: True.~STRANGER: Can we
 651 Text |     scientific or learned imitation.~THEAETETUS: Granted.~STRANGER: The
 652 Text |            those who have knowledge.~THEAETETUS: Very true.~STRANGER: Let
 653 Text |             still some crack in him.~THEAETETUS: Let us examine him.~STRANGER:
 654 Text |            many he pretends to know.~THEAETETUS: There are certainly the
 655 Text |    dissembling or ironical imitator?~THEAETETUS: Very good.~STRANGER: And
 656 Text |         having one or two divisions?~THEAETETUS: Answer yourself.~STRANGER:
 657 Text |           him to contradict himself.~THEAETETUS: What you say is most true.~
 658 Text |     statesman or the popular orator?~THEAETETUS: The latter.~STRANGER: And
 659 Text |          philosopher or the Sophist?~THEAETETUS: The philosopher he cannot
 660 Text |              genealogy to the other?~THEAETETUS: By all means.~STRANGER:
 661 Text |             will say the very truth.~THEAETETUS: Undoubtedly.~THE END~     >


The Statesman
     Part
 662 Intro|              for the acquaintance of Theaetetus and the Stranger.~THEODORUS:
 663 Intro|           The Stranger suggests that Theaetetus shall be allowed to rest,
 664 Intro|          geometricians, like you and Theaetetus, I can have no difficulty
 665 Intro|             who can tell?’ As in the Theaetetus, evil is supposed to continue,—
 666 Intro|            arts of measuring.~In the Theaetetus, Plato remarks that precision
 667 Intro|           connexion of them with the Theaetetus, Parmenides, and Philebus,
 668 Intro|              near connexion with the Theaetetus, the Parmenides, the Philebus,
 669 Intro|         Plato from the Laws. And the Theaetetus, Parmenides, and Philebus,
 670 Text |             the acquaintance both of Theaetetus and of the Stranger.~THEODORUS:
 671 Text |              what shall be done with Theaetetus?~THEODORUS: In what respect?~
 672 Text |          myself was discoursing with Theaetetus yesterday, and I have just
 673 Text |    appropriately employed by you and Theaetetus, who are students of geometry.~


Theaetetus
     Part
 674 -    |                                      Theaetetus~
 675 Intro|             degree of certainty. The Theaetetus, like the Parmenides, has
 676 Intro|             be disposed to range the Theaetetus with the Apology and the
 677 Intro|           which in many respects the Theaetetus is so little akin. (1) The
 678 Intro|             is just mentioned in the Theaetetus; (2) the theory of rest,
 679 Intro|       opinion which is raised in the Theaetetus. (Compare also Theaet. and
 680 Intro|             general character of the Theaetetus is dialectical, and there
 681 Intro|             to have taken place when Theaetetus was a youth, and shortly
 682 Intro|              the engagement in which Theaetetus is said to have fallen or
 683 Intro|   Epaminondas, would make the age of Theaetetus at his death forty-five
 684 Intro|   uncertainty about the place of the Theaetetus, it seemed better, as in
 685 Intro|             works of Plato, that the Theaetetus may not have been all written
 686 Intro|      inserted afterwards. Again, the Theaetetus may be connected with the
 687 Intro|          Sophist, and still more the Theaetetus, have points of affinity
 688 Intro|    intermediate position between the Theaetetus and the Sophist; upon this
 689 Intro|       probability in its favour.~The Theaetetus is one of the narrated dialogues
 690 Intro|         interest about the person of Theaetetus, who has just been carried
 691 Intro|         narrative, having introduced Theaetetus, and having guaranteed the
 692 Intro|     interlocutory words are omitted.~Theaetetus, the hero of the battle
 693 Intro|         evident delight in ‘the wise Theaetetus,’ who has more in him than ‘
 694 Intro|              no reason to doubt that Theaetetus was a real person, whose
 695 Intro|         compared with the dislike of Theaetetus to the materialists, and
 696 Intro|       character.~The Socrates of the Theaetetus is the same as the Socrates
 697 Intro|              of self-conceit; in the Theaetetus he has assigned to him by
 698 Intro|       dialogue. The snubnosedness of Theaetetus, a characteristic which
 699 Intro|       Eleatic stranger; the youthful Theaetetus also plays a different and
 700 Intro|         knowledge are extracted from Theaetetus, who in his turn truly declares
 701 Intro|             the hearth, fearing that Theaetetus will bite him, comparing
 702 Intro|           the first definition which Theaetetus proposes: ‘Knowledge is
 703 Intro|              sphere, and accordingly Theaetetus, when again interrogated,
 704 Intro|             beset the student of the Theaetetus: (1) he is uncertain how
 705 Intro|        person.~Returning then to the Theaetetus, as the only possible source
 706 Intro|           the statement occurs;—this Theaetetus, who has ‘often read the
 707 Intro|         raised, how far Plato in the Theaetetus could have misrepresented
 708 Intro|             circumstance that in the Theaetetus and some other dialogues
 709 Intro|              with unfairness. In the Theaetetus he is designedly held back
 710 Intro|             Plato, especially in the Theaetetus, Sophist, and Laws, of certain
 711 Intro|              universe.~Plato, in his Theaetetus, gathers up the sceptical
 712 Intro|             philosophy Plato, in the Theaetetus, offers many contributions.
 713 Intro|              his way thither had met Theaetetus, who was being carried up
 714 Intro|              I,” “said he”; and that Theaetetus, and Theodorus, the geometrician
 715 Intro|              that the youth is named Theaetetus, but the property of his
 716 Intro|        desire of Socrates he invites Theaetetus to sit by them.~‘Yes,’ says
 717 Intro|               that I may see in you, Theaetetus, the image of my ugly self,
 718 Intro|              refuse to be examined.’ Theaetetus consents, and is caught
 719 Intro|          laid for Theodorus). ‘Then, Theaetetus, you will have to be examined,
 720 Intro|         praises, and swear to them.’ Theaetetus, in reply, professes that
 721 Intro|           question to which he wants Theaetetus or Theodorus (or whichever
 722 Intro|              begs him to interrogate Theaetetus, who has the advantage of
 723 Intro|              the advantage of youth.~Theaetetus replies, that knowledge
 724 Intro|             too little. For although Theaetetus has enumerated several kinds
 725 Intro|             another of oven-makers.’ Theaetetus at once divines that Socrates
 726 Intro|             his own. He also reminds Theaetetus that the midwives are or
 727 Intro|           the truth. Once more then, Theaetetus, I repeat my old question—“
 728 Intro|         these speculations charming, Theaetetus, and very good for a person
 729 Intro|             things,” the doctrine of Theaetetus that “Knowledge is perception,”
 730 Intro|              infant we expose him.’~‘Theaetetus will not be angry,’ says
 731 Intro|             that I extract them from Theaetetus, shall I tell you what amazes
 732 Intro|              therefore refers him to Theaetetus, who is already driven out
 733 Intro|          nothing better to offer.’...Theaetetus is affected by the appeal
 734 Intro|           you must take the place of Theaetetus, who may be wiser than many
 735 Intro|          must modify the doctrine of Theaetetus and Protagoras, by asserting
 736 Intro|      according to his agreement. But Theaetetus insists that they shall
 737 Intro|        purpose, which is, to deliver Theaetetus of his conception of knowledge.)
 738 Intro|              supposed to be another? Theaetetus is confident that this must
 739 Intro|             that which we know: e.g. Theaetetus may know Socrates, but at
 740 Intro|              he knows and perceives.~Theaetetus is unable to follow these
 741 Intro|             I may know Theodorus and Theaetetus and not see them; I may
 742 Intro|      confusion of thought and sense.~Theaetetus is delighted with this explanation.
 743 Intro|        blindness could make him see. Theaetetus suggests that in the aviary
 744 Intro|              What then is knowledge? Theaetetus repeats that knowledge is
 745 Intro|        without knowledge.~Once more. Theaetetus offers a definition which
 746 Intro|          parts may not be the whole. Theaetetus is very much inclined to
 747 Intro|            the syllables of the name Theaetetus, but not the letters; yet
 748 Intro|           syllable ‘The’ in the name Theaetetus, yet he may be mistaken
 749 Intro|     snub-nosedness, then I recognize Theaetetus. And having this sign of
 750 Intro|     knowledge of difference.~And so, Theaetetus, knowledge is neither perception
 751 Intro|          place.~...~I. The saying of Theaetetus, that ‘Knowledge is sensible
 752 Intro|            differ from the saying of Theaetetus? Chiefly in this—that the
 753 Intro|       between knowledge and opinion, Theaetetus, in answer to Socrates,
 754 Intro|           stood in no relation.~Like Theaetetus, we have attained to no
 755 Intro|             makes preparation in the Theaetetus, and crowns the work in
 756 Intro|             as (1) the comparison of Theaetetus’ progress in learning to
 757 Intro|             excellent distinction of Theaetetus (which Socrates, speaking
 758 Intro|          remarkable how Plato in the Theaetetus, after having indulged in
 759 Intro|            of all, like Plato in the Theaetetus, to analyse sensation, and
 760 Intro|              upon some points in the Theaetetus of Plato,—the oldest work
 761 Intro|          early Greek thought. In the Theaetetus of Plato it has not yet
 762 Intro|              as Plato implies in the Theaetetus, an absurdity.~e. The growth
 763 Text |                                      THEAETETUS~PERSONS OF THE DIALOGUE:
 764 Text |       DIALOGUE: Socrates, Theodorus, Theaetetus.~Euclid and Terpsion meet
 765 Text |           down to the harbour, I met Theaetetus—he was being carried up
 766 Text |           before his own death, when Theaetetus was a youth, and he had
 767 Text |              a rest, for I went with Theaetetus as far as Erineum. Let us
 768 Text |        geometrician (of Cyrene), and Theaetetus. I have omitted, for the
 769 Text |     considerable fortune.~THEODORUS: Theaetetus, Socrates, is his name;
 770 Text |      THEODORUS: I will. Come hither, Theaetetus, and sit by Socrates.~SOCRATES:
 771 Text |              SOCRATES: By all means, Theaetetus, in order that I may see
 772 Text |           was or was not a musician?~THEAETETUS: We should ask.~SOCRATES:
 773 Text |           his word; and if not, not?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: And if
 774 Text |           alike is a painter or not?~THEAETETUS: Certainly we should.~SOCRATES:
 775 Text |              is Theodorus a painter?~THEAETETUS: I never heard that he was.~
 776 Text |      SOCRATES: Is he a geometrician?~THEAETETUS: Of course he is, Socrates.~
 777 Text |             general an educated man?~THEAETETUS: I think so.~SOCRATES: If,
 778 Text |             we should attend to him.~THEAETETUS: I should say not.~SOCRATES:
 779 Text |          willing to exhibit himself.~THEAETETUS: Very true, Socrates.~SOCRATES:
 780 Text |             now is the time, my dear Theaetetus, for me to examine, and
 781 Text |            he has been praising you.~THEAETETUS: I am glad to hear it, Socrates;
 782 Text |              but stand to your word.~THEAETETUS: I suppose I must, if you
 783 Text |      something of geometry, perhaps?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And astronomy
 784 Text |             harmony and calculation?~THEAETETUS: I do my best.~SOCRATES:
 785 Text |         about that which you learn?’~THEAETETUS: Of course.~SOCRATES: And
 786 Text |            wisdom the wise are wise?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And is that
 787 Text |              any way from knowledge?~THEAETETUS: What?~SOCRATES: Wisdom;
 788 Text |             in that which they know?~THEAETETUS: Certainly they are.~SOCRATES:
 789 Text |              knowledge are the same?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: Herein lies
 790 Text |         having made a beginning with Theaetetus, I would advise you to go
 791 Text |               SOCRATES: Do you hear, Theaetetus, what Theodorus says? The
 792 Text |             think that knowledge is.~THEAETETUS: Well, Socrates, I will
 793 Text |        SOCRATES: We will, if we can.~THEAETETUS: Then, I think that the
 794 Text |       knowledge.~SOCRATES: Too much, Theaetetus, too much; the nobility
 795 Text |         asking for one simple thing.~THEAETETUS: What do you mean, Socrates?~
 796 Text |             science of making shoes?~THEAETETUS: Just so.~SOCRATES: And
 797 Text |            making wooden implements?~THEAETETUS: I do.~SOCRATES: In both
 798 Text |             of each of the two arts?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: But that,
 799 Text |            True.~SOCRATES: But that, Theaetetus, was not the point of my
 800 Text |            abstract. Am I not right?~THEAETETUS: Perfectly right.~SOCRATES:
 801 Text |            the answer be ridiculous?~THEAETETUS: Truly.~SOCRATES: In the
 802 Text |           not know the nature of it?~THEAETETUS: He cannot.~SOCRATES: Then
 803 Text |             science of making shoes?~THEAETETUS: None.~SOCRATES: Nor of
 804 Text |            Nor of any other science?~THEAETETUS: No.~SOCRATES: And when
 805 Text |          knowledge of this or that.’~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: Moreover,
 806 Text |            clay is not to the point.~THEAETETUS: Yes, Socrates, there is
 807 Text |             SOCRATES: What was that, Theaetetus?~THEAETETUS: Theodorus was
 808 Text |           What was that, Theaetetus?~THEAETETUS: Theodorus was writing out
 809 Text |           did you find such a class?~THEAETETUS: I think that we did; but
 810 Text |               SOCRATES: Let me hear.~THEAETETUS: We divided all numbers
 811 Text |          class.~SOCRATES: Very good.~THEAETETUS: The intermediate numbers,
 812 Text |          Capital; and what followed?~THEAETETUS: The lines, or sides, which
 813 Text |             guilty of false witness.~THEAETETUS: But I am unable, Socrates,
 814 Text |         praise be any the less true?~THEAETETUS: Certainly not.~SOCRATES:
 815 Text |            men perfect in every way?~THEAETETUS: By heaven, they should
 816 Text |             well as of other things.~THEAETETUS: I am eager enough, Socrates,
 817 Text |      knowledge under one definition.~THEAETETUS: I can assure you, Socrates,
 818 Text |             pangs of labour, my dear Theaetetus; you have something within
 819 Text |           are bringing to the birth.~THEAETETUS: I do not know, Socrates;
 820 Text |           whose name was Phaenarete?~THEAETETUS: Yes, I have.~SOCRATES:
 821 Text |           myself practise midwifery?~THEAETETUS: No, never.~SOCRATES: Let
 822 Text |              you ever hear that too?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: Shall I
 823 Text |         Shall I tell you the reason?~THEAETETUS: By all means.~SOCRATES:
 824 Text |          those who are past bearing.~THEAETETUS: Yes, I know.~SOCRATES:
 825 Text |             who are too old to bear.~THEAETETUS: I dare say.~SOCRATES: And
 826 Text |             pregnant and who is not?~THEAETETUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: And
 827 Text |              the embryo in the womb.~THEAETETUS: They can.~SOCRATES: Did
 828 Text |            to produce a brave brood?~THEAETETUS: No, never.~SOCRATES: Then
 829 Text |           seeds should be deposited.~THEAETETUS: Yes, the same art.~SOCRATES:
 830 Text |         women the case is otherwise?~THEAETETUS: I should think not.~SOCRATES:
 831 Text |            true and only matchmaker.~THEAETETUS: Clearly.~SOCRATES: Such
 832 Text |        midwifery—you would think so?~THEAETETUS: Indeed I should.~SOCRATES:
 833 Text |          them. And there are others, Theaetetus, who come to me apparently
 834 Text |              this long story, friend Theaetetus, because I suspect, as indeed
 835 Text |              truth. Once more, then, Theaetetus, I repeat my old question, ‘
 836 Text |            you will be able to tell.~THEAETETUS: At any rate, Socrates,
 837 Text |             knowledge is perception?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: Well, you
 838 Text |              not:—You have read him?~THEAETETUS: O yes, again and again.~
 839 Text |              that you and I are men?~THEAETETUS: Yes, he says so.~SOCRATES:
 840 Text |             and the other very cold?~THEAETETUS: Quite true.~SOCRATES: Now
 841 Text |           and not to him who is not?~THEAETETUS: I suppose the last.~SOCRATES:
 842 Text |           appear so to each of them?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And ‘appears
 843 Text |              same as ‘he perceives.’~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: Then appearing
 844 Text |           such as he perceives them?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then perception
 845 Text |            as knowledge is unerring?~THEAETETUS: Clearly.~SOCRATES: In the
 846 Text |         secret to his own disciples.~THEAETETUS: What do you mean, Socrates?~
 847 Text |       offspring, of flux and motion?~THEAETETUS: I think so.~SOCRATES: And
 848 Text |      ridiculous? (Compare Cratylus.)~THEAETETUS: Who indeed, Socrates?~SOCRATES:
 849 Text |             Socrates?~SOCRATES: Yes, Theaetetus; and there are plenty of
 850 Text |             this the origin of fire?~THEAETETUS: It is.~SOCRATES: And the
 851 Text |           generated in the same way?~THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And
 852 Text |              by motion and exercise?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: And what
 853 Text |            whatever she has learned?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: Then motion
 854 Text |              as well as to the body?~THEAETETUS: Clearly.~SOCRATES: I may
 855 Text |              is, turned upside down.~THEAETETUS: I believe, Socrates, that
 856 Text |              no process of becoming.~THEAETETUS: Then what is colour?~SOCRATES:
 857 Text |      whatever as they appear to you?~THEAETETUS: Far from it.~SOCRATES:
 858 Text |              never exactly the same?~THEAETETUS: The latter.~SOCRATES: And
 859 Text |            of argument would remark.~THEAETETUS: How? and of what sort do
 860 Text |           one maintain the contrary?~THEAETETUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: Well,
 861 Text |            how would you answer him, Theaetetus?~THEAETETUS: I should say ‘
 862 Text |              answer him, Theaetetus?~THEAETETUS: I should say ‘No,’ Socrates,
 863 Text |        omomoch e de thren anomotos.)~THEAETETUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: The
 864 Text |         consistent with each or not.~THEAETETUS: Yes, that would be my desire.~
 865 Text |              itself—you would agree?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: Secondly,
 866 Text |         anything, but only equality.~THEAETETUS: Quite true.~SOCRATES: Thirdly,
 867 Text |          becoming and having become.~THEAETETUS: Yes, truly.~SOCRATES: These
 868 Text |          believe that you follow me, Theaetetus; for I suspect that you
 869 Text |          these questions before now.~THEAETETUS: Yes, Socrates, and I am
 870 Text |             SOCRATES: I see, my dear Theaetetus, that Theodorus had a true
 871 Text |             attribute to Protagoras?~THEAETETUS: Not as yet.~SOCRATES: Then
 872 Text |              a famous man or school.~THEAETETUS: To be sure, I shall be
 873 Text |             can have real existence.~THEAETETUS: Yes, indeed, Socrates,
 874 Text |            akin to them. Do you see, Theaetetus, the bearings of this tale
 875 Text |              the preceding argument?~THEAETETUS: Indeed I do not.~SOCRATES:
 876 Text |              animal or of a class. O Theaetetus, are not these speculations
 877 Text |          taste of them in the mouth?~THEAETETUS: I do not know what to say,
 878 Text |           like a man what you think.~THEAETETUS: Ask me.~SOCRATES: Then
 879 Text |            were just now mentioning?~THEAETETUS: When I hear you discoursing
 880 Text |            nothing is which appears.~THEAETETUS: Very true, Socrates.~SOCRATES:
 881 Text |           every man what appears is?~THEAETETUS: I am afraid to say, Socrates,
 882 Text |           about dreaming and waking?~THEAETETUS: What question?~SOCRATES:
 883 Text |         another in the waking state?~THEAETETUS: Indeed, Socrates, I do
 884 Text |           equally confident of both.~THEAETETUS: Most true.~SOCRATES: And
 885 Text |             the times are not equal.~THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And
 886 Text |      determined by duration of time?~THEAETETUS: That would be in many ways
 887 Text |              these opinions is true?~THEAETETUS: I do not think that I can.~
 888 Text |             it differs? and observe, Theaetetus, that the word ‘other’ means
 889 Text |      partially,’ but ‘wholly other.’~THEAETETUS: Certainly, putting the
 890 Text |            be admitted to be unlike?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: If, then,
 891 Text |             same—when unlike, other?~THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Were
 892 Text |          patients many and infinite?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And also
 893 Text |             the same, but different?~THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Let
 894 Text |             Are they like or unlike?~THEAETETUS: You mean to compare Socrates
 895 Text |         Exactly; that is my meaning.~THEAETETUS: I answer, they are unlike.~
 896 Text |              unlike, they are other?~THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And
 897 Text |            which we were mentioning?~THEAETETUS: I should.~SOCRATES: All
 898 Text |    accordingly as he is well or ill.~THEAETETUS: Of course.~SOCRATES: And
 899 Text |            in each of the two cases?~THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: The
 900 Text |            sweet and pleasant to me?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: For, as
 901 Text |         sweet to the healthy tongue.~THEAETETUS: Certainly; that has been
 902 Text |              and a different person?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: The combination
 903 Text |           perception but percipient?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: There is
 904 Text |       subject, and become different.~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: Neither
 905 Text |             by itself, this quality.~THEAETETUS: Certainly not.~SOCRATES:
 906 Text |            which is sweet to no one.~THEAETETUS: Certainly not.~SOCRATES:
 907 Text |              such is our conclusion.~THEAETETUS: Very true, Socrates.~SOCRATES:
 908 Text |             am the percipient of it?~THEAETETUS: Of course.~SOCRATES: Then
 909 Text |            is and what is not to me.~THEAETETUS: I suppose so.~SOCRATES:
 910 Text |       knowing that which I perceive?~THEAETETUS: You cannot.~SOCRATES: Then
 911 Text |       measure of all things; or with Theaetetus, that, given these premises,
 912 Text |           knowledge. Am I not right, Theaetetus, and is not this your new-born
 913 Text |         delivered you? What say you?~THEAETETUS: I cannot but agree, Socrates.~
 914 Text |          your first-born?~THEODORUS: Theaetetus will not be angry, for he
 915 Text |           you; please, then, to take Theaetetus again; he seemed to answer
 916 Text |              will return to the sage Theaetetus: Tell me, Theaetetus, in
 917 Text |            sage Theaetetus: Tell me, Theaetetus, in reference to what I
 918 Text |             the gods as well as men?~THEAETETUS: Certainly I should, and
 919 Text |           would not be worth an ace.~THEAETETUS: But neither you nor we,
 920 Text |            matter in some other way?~THEAETETUS: Yes, in quite another way.~
 921 Text |              many strange questions.~THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Shall
 922 Text |             them, we must know them?~THEAETETUS: We shall say, Socrates,
 923 Text |             them.~SOCRATES: Capital, Theaetetus; and about this there shall
 924 Text |           will also have to repulse.~THEAETETUS: What is it?~SOCRATES: Some
 925 Text |         remembers, can fail to know?~THEAETETUS: Impossible, Socrates; the
 926 Text |             is not sight perception?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: And if
 927 Text |              that which he has seen?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And you
 928 Text |              such a thing as memory?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And is memory
 929 Text |             something or of nothing?~THEAETETUS: Of something, surely.~SOCRATES:
 930 Text |              and perceived, that is?~THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Often
 931 Text |              that which he has seen?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: And if
 932 Text |           his eyes, would he forget?~THEAETETUS: Who, Socrates, would dare
 933 Text |        argument is to be maintained.~THEAETETUS: What do you mean? I am
 934 Text |             admitted to be the same.~THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: But
 935 Text |             which he no longer sees.~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: And seeing
 936 Text |           not-seeing is not-knowing?~THEAETETUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: Then
 937 Text |             a monstrous supposition.~THEAETETUS: Most true.~SOCRATES: Thus,
 938 Text |              manifest impossibility?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then they
 939 Text |          they must be distinguished?~THEAETETUS: I suppose that they must.~
 940 Text |              is knowledge?’ and yet, Theaetetus, what are we going to do?~
 941 Text |             what are we going to do?~THEAETETUS: About what?~SOCRATES: Like
 942 Text |          from the argument and crow.~THEAETETUS: How do you mean?~SOCRATES:
 943 Text |          ingenious class of persons.~THEAETETUS: I do not as yet understand
 944 Text |              the same as perception.~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: And yet,
 945 Text |             this matter to you or to Theaetetus?~THEODORUS: To both of us,
 946 Text |      THEODORUS: How shall we answer, Theaetetus?~THEAETETUS: He cannot,
 947 Text |         shall we answer, Theaetetus?~THEAETETUS: He cannot, I should say.~
 948 Text |           answer the inevitable man?~THEAETETUS: I should answer, ‘Not with
 949 Text |              thing at the same time.~THEAETETUS: Yes, in a certain sense.~
 950 Text |           you to draw the inference.~THEAETETUS: Yes; the inference is the
 951 Text |              Shall I answer for him?~THEAETETUS: By all means.~SOCRATES:
 952 Text |          THEODORUS: Well, but is not Theaetetus better able to follow a
 953 Text |             in which case our friend Theaetetus was not so far from the
 954 Text |            is knowledge: so at least Theaetetus and I were saying.~THEODORUS:
 955 Text |          unless perchance our friend Theaetetus is able to convince us that
 956 Text |              this was the agreement.~THEAETETUS: Not, Theodorus, until you
 957 Text |           proposing.~THEODORUS: You, Theaetetus, who are a young rogue,
 958 Text |           remainder of the argument.~THEAETETUS: Yes, if he wishes; but
 959 Text |           comply with the request of Theaetetus.~THEODORUS: Not comply!
 960 Text |              of midwifery to deliver Theaetetus of his conceptions about
 961 Text |         conceptions about knowledge.~THEAETETUS: Very well; do so if you
 962 Text |            will.~SOCRATES: Then now, Theaetetus, take another view of the
 963 Text |             knowledge is perception?~THEAETETUS: I did.~SOCRATES: And if
 964 Text |             eyes and with the ears.’~THEAETETUS: I should.~SOCRATES: The
 965 Text |           eyes and through the ears.~THEAETETUS: I should say ‘through,’
 966 Text |           perceive objects of sense.~THEAETETUS: I agree with you in that
 967 Text |           sweet, organs of the body?~THEAETETUS: Of the body, certainly.~
 968 Text |            of sight through hearing?~THEAETETUS: Of course not.~SOCRATES:
 969 Text |              one or the other organ?~THEAETETUS: It cannot.~SOCRATES: How
 970 Text |          admit that they both exist?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And that
 971 Text |            and the same with itself?~THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And
 972 Text |            two and each of them one?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: You can
 973 Text |          like or unlike one another?~THEAETETUS: I dare say.~SOCRATES: But
 974 Text |             hearing, but some other.~THEAETETUS: Certainly; the faculty
 975 Text |         perception of these notions?~THEAETETUS: You are thinking of being
 976 Text |           You follow me excellently, Theaetetus; that is precisely what
 977 Text |          precisely what I am asking.~THEAETETUS: Indeed, Socrates, I cannot
 978 Text |          SOCRATES: You are a beauty, Theaetetus, and not ugly, as Theodorus
 979 Text |         wanted you to agree with me.~THEAETETUS: I am quite clear.~SOCRATES:
 980 Text |               is the most universal?~THEAETETUS: I should say, to that class
 981 Text |              unlike, same and other?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And would
 982 Text |          base, and of good and evil?~THEAETETUS: These I conceive to be
 983 Text |           soft equally by the touch?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: But their
 984 Text |              and comparison of them?~THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: The
 985 Text |       education and long experience.~THEAETETUS: Assuredly.~SOCRATES: And
 986 Text |            fails of attaining being?~THEAETETUS: Impossible.~SOCRATES: And
 987 Text |             knowledge of that thing?~THEAETETUS: He cannot.~SOCRATES: Then
 988 Text |           and being can be attained?~THEAETETUS: Clearly.~SOCRATES: And
 989 Text |             difference between them?~THEAETETUS: That would certainly not
 990 Text |            being cold and being hot?~THEAETETUS: I should call all of them
 991 Text |             collective name of them?~THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Which,
 992 Text |              any more than of being?~THEAETETUS: Certainly not.~SOCRATES:
 993 Text |             in science or knowledge?~THEAETETUS: No.~SOCRATES: Then perception,
 994 Text |           SOCRATES: Then perception, Theaetetus, can never be the same as
 995 Text |             as knowledge or science?~THEAETETUS: Clearly not, Socrates;
 996 Text |              and engaged with being.~THEAETETUS: You mean, Socrates, if
 997 Text |          more say what is knowledge.~THEAETETUS: I cannot say, Socrates,
 998 Text |           which you ought to answer, Theaetetus, and not in your former
 999 Text |            knowledge to be the true?~THEAETETUS: Yes, according to my present
1000 Text |         discussion touching opinion?~THEAETETUS: To what are you alluding?~