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| Alphabetical [« »] athena 2 athenaeus 4 athene 35 athenian 999 athenians 125 athens 147 athlete 3 | Frequency [« »] 1022 yet 1017 because 1005 cannot 999 athenian 998 make 987 either 983 just | Plato Partial collection IntraText - Concordances athenian |
The Apology
Part
1 Intro | confusion about Anaxagoras; the Athenian people are not so ignorant
2 Intro | He, the benefactor of the Athenian people, whose whole life
3 Intro | would rebuke and exhort the Athenian people in harsher and more
4 Intro | odious in the eyes of the Athenian public.~
5 Text | improve them.~Then every Athenian improves and elevates them;
Charmides
Part
6 PreS | as the comparison of the Athenian empire to the empire of
7 PreS(8)| of Plato with Spartan and Athenian Laws and Institutions.~
8 Intro | the name of the latter in Athenian history. He is simply a
9 Text | could easily point out two Athenian houses, whose union would
Cratylus
Part
10 Intro | Cratylus were to say, Hail, Athenian Stranger, Hermogenes! would
11 Intro | Compare Plato, Laws):—~‘ATHENIAN STRANGER: And what then
12 Intro | CLEINIAS: What do you mean?~ATHENIAN STRANGER: I mean that he
13 Intro | ages.~CLEINIAS: How so?~ATHENIAN STRANGER: Why, do you think
14 Intro | them?~CLEINIAS: Hardly.~ATHENIAN STRANGER: But you are quite
15 Intro | incalculable?~CLEINIAS: No doubt.~ATHENIAN STRANGER: And have there
16 Text | whom you, Socrates, as an Athenian, will surely not forget;
17 Text | your hand and say: ‘Hail, Athenian stranger, Hermogenes, son
Critias
Part
18 Intro | number of the primitive Athenian citizens (20,000), ‘which
19 Intro | prefixed the most detested of Athenian names to this dialogue,
Crito
Part
20 Intro | Thessaly, and deprives them of Athenian citizenship? Or if he leaves
21 Text | further proclaim to any Athenian by the liberty which we
22 Text | Thessaly and deprive them of Athenian citizenship? Is this the
Euthydemus
Part
23 Text | he said; you are not an Athenian at all if you have no ancestral
Euthyphro
Part
24 Intro | of Euthyphro, a learned Athenian diviner and soothsayer,
25 Intro | also the feeling of the Athenian diviner. He had not as yet
The First Alcibiades
Part
26 Pre | over the gloomier events of Athenian history. It exhibits an
27 Intro | he is no worse than other Athenian statesmen; and he will not
28 Intro | and Protagoras, that great Athenian statesmen, like Pericles,
29 Text | you will come before the Athenian assembly, and will prove
30 Text | you going to get up in the Athenian assembly, and give them
31 Text | is not expedient for the Athenian people, and simply request
32 Text | you ever hear of any other Athenian or foreigner, bond or free,
33 Text | about that of any other Athenian, unless he has a lover who
34 Text | The affairs which occupy Athenian gentlemen.~SOCRATES: And
35 Text | spoiled and deformed by the Athenian people; for the danger which
36 Text | spoiled by them. Many a noble Athenian has been ruined in this
Gorgias
Part
37 Intro | world, and an accomplished Athenian gentleman. He might be described
38 Intro | other men of the world; the Athenian statesmen of a former generation,
39 Intro | beloved of Callicles are the Athenian Demos and Demos the son
40 Intro | influence either with the Athenian Demos or with Demos the
41 Text | argument nearly every one, Athenian and stranger alike, would
42 Text | Pericles, or any other great Athenian family whom you choose;—
43 Text | philosophy; and you of the Athenian Demus, and of Demus the
44 Text | backwards and forwards. When the Athenian Demus denies anything that
45 Text | rhetoric which addresses the Athenian assembly and the assemblies
46 Text | like as possible to the Athenian people, if you mean to be
47 Text | true natural friend of the Athenian Demus, aye, or of Pyrilampes’
48 Text | said already, that in the Athenian State no one has ever shown
49 Text | do not know that in the Athenian State any man may suffer
50 Text | only or almost the only Athenian living who practises the
Laches
Part
51 Intro | does not like to see an Athenian statesman and general descending
Laws
Book
52 1 | PERSONS OF THE DIALOGUE: An ATHENIAN STRANGER; CLEINIAS, a Cretan;
53 1 | MEGILLUS, a Lacedaemonian~Athenian Stranger. Tell me, Strangers,
54 1 | Megillus?~Megillus. Certainly.~Athenian. And do you, Cleinias, believe,
55 1 | justice when he was alive.~Athenian. Yes, and a noble reputation
56 1 | may repose and converse.~Athenian. Very good.~Cleinias. Very
57 1 | let us move on cheerily.~Athenian. I am willing—And first,
58 1 | hands of the conquerors.~Athenian. You appear to me, Stranger,
59 1 | Lacedaemonian say anything else?~Athenian. And is what you say applicable
60 1 | Cleinias. To both alike.~Athenian. The case is the same?~Cleinias.
61 1 | the same?~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. And in the village will
62 1 | individual?~Cleinias. The same.~Athenian. And should each man conceive
63 1 | shall we say?~Cleinias. O Athenian Stranger—inhabitant of Attica
64 1 | within every one of us.~Athenian. Let us now reverse the
65 1 | or inferiority to self?~Athenian. Yes.~Cleinias. You are
66 1 | censured in the opposite case.~Athenian. Whether the better is ever
67 1 | cannot possibly deny it.~Athenian. Here is another case for
68 1 | Cleinias. Very possibly.~Athenian. And you and I ought not
69 1 | as far as we have gone.~Athenian. Again; might there not
70 1 | speaking?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Now, which would be the
71 1 | of judge and legislator.~Athenian. And yet the aim of all
72 1 | war.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And will he who constitutes
73 1 | latter chiefly in view.~Athenian. And would he prefer that
74 1 | the case of his own state.~Athenian. And would not that also
75 1 | legislator?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And would not every one
76 1 | best?~Cleinias. To be sure.~Athenian. But war, whether external
77 1 | also of the Lacedaemonian.~Athenian. I dare say; but there is
78 1 | put forward Tyrtaeus, an Athenian by birth, but also a Spartan
79 1 | from Lacedaemon to Crete.~Athenian. Come now and let us all
80 1 | Certainly, far milder.~Athenian. Well, now, when you praise
81 1 | this.~Cleinias. Evidently.~Athenian. They are good; but we say
82 1 | which is far beneath him.~Athenian. Nay, I think that we degrade
83 1 | What ought we to say then?~Athenian. What truth and what justice
84 1 | Cleinias. By all means.~Athenian. You ought to have said,
85 1 | shall we proceed, Stranger?~Athenian. I think that we must begin
86 1 | Zeus and the laws of Crete.~Athenian. I will try to criticize
87 1 | view to war?~Megillus. Yes.~Athenian. And what comes third, and
88 1 | hunting is third in order.~Athenian. Let us see if we can discover
89 1 | detail would be endless.~Athenian. Excellent, O Lacedaemonian
90 1 | I should say the latter.~Athenian. In what preceded, as you
91 1 | Cleinias?~Cleinias. I was.~Athenian. Now, which is in the truest
92 1 | who is overcome by pain.~Athenian. But surely the lawgivers
93 1 | meet both, I should say.~Athenian. Then let me once more ask,
94 1 | prominent in the Cretan laws.~Athenian. No wonder, my dear friends;
95 1 | Cleinias. You are quite right, Athenian Stranger, and we will do
96 1 | and we will do as you say.~Athenian. At our time of life, Cleinias,
97 1 | Cleinias. Certainly not.~Athenian. I will not at present determine
98 1 | to say what is most true.~Athenian. As there are no young men
99 1 | be all the better for it.~Athenian. Very good; however, I am
100 1 | very childish and simple.~Athenian. Suppose, Cleinias and Megillus,
101 1 | temperance and courage.~Athenian. There seems to be a difficulty,
102 1 | the sort happens among us.~Athenian. O Lacedaemonian Stranger,
103 1 | In order to retaliate, an Athenian has only to point out the
104 1 | nations flying before us.~Athenian. Nay, my good friend, do
105 1 | Megillus. How do you mean?~Athenian. All those who are ready
106 1 | enquiry which is right.~Athenian. Let me put the matter thus:—
107 1 | Megillus. Certainly not.~Athenian. Does a captain require
108 1 | liable to sea–sickness.~Athenian. And what would you say
109 1 | fear?~Megillus. Impossible.~Athenian. And what if besides being
110 1 | but only of old women.~Athenian. And what would you say
111 1 | meeting when rightly ordered.~Athenian. Reflect; may not banqueters
112 1 | meeting?~Megillus. Of course.~Athenian. And did any one ever see
113 1 | wrong in such societies.~Athenian. Likely enough; then let
114 1 | Cleinias. Certainly I should.~Athenian. And we were saying just
115 1 | man?~Cleinias. We were.~Athenian. The brave man is less likely
116 1 | Cleinias. That again is true.~Athenian. And if there were a possibility
117 1 | him?~Cleinias. Assuredly.~Athenian. Now, however, we are speaking
118 1 | of peace.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. And that sort of meeting,
119 1 | Certainly; the reverse of quiet.~Athenian. In the first place, then,
120 1 | be sure; no men more so.~Athenian. And we ought, if possible,
121 1 | ruler?~Cleinias. Of course.~Athenian. And he should be a man
122 1 | occasion.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. Must we not appoint a sober
123 1 | fortune that he is saved.~Athenian. Now suppose such associations
124 1 | ordinance is duly established.~Athenian. If you mean to ask what
125 1 | important element of education.~Athenian. Certainly I do.~Cleinias.
126 1 | have been saying is true?~Athenian. To be absolutely sure of
127 1 | precisely what we want to hear.~Athenian. Very good; I will try to
128 1 | me make an apology. The Athenian citizen is reputed among
129 1 | question of law?~Megillus. O Athenian Stranger, let me tell you
130 1 | always like to hear the Athenian tongue spoken; the common
131 1 | quite true, that a good Athenian is more than ordinarily
132 1 | parents have had for you.~Athenian. You seem to be quite ready
133 1 | proceed, if you please.~Athenian. Well, then, if I tell you
134 1 | Cleinias. Let us hear.~Athenian. According to my view, any
135 1 | far?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Then let us not leave the
136 1 | entirely agree with you.~Athenian. And we agreed before that
137 1 | Cleinias. You are quite right.~Athenian. Let me now proceed, if
138 1 | you.~Cleinias. Proceed.~Athenian. Do we not consider each
139 1 | be one?~Cleinias. We do.~Athenian. And each one of us has
140 1 | pain.~Cleinias. Exactly.~Athenian. Also there are opinions
141 1 | I am in the like case.~Athenian. Let us look at the matter
142 1 | the length of discourse.~Athenian. Very good; let us proceed
143 1 | object.~Cleinias. Proceed.~Athenian. Suppose that we give this
144 1 | do you ask that question?~Athenian. Nothing as yet; but I ask
145 1 | Cleinias. Very greatly.~Athenian. And are perception and
146 1 | they entirely desert him.~Athenian. Does he not return to the
147 1 | child?~Cleinias. He does.~Athenian. Then at that time he will
148 1 | himself?~Cleinias. The least.~Athenian. And will he not be in a
149 1 | Cleinias. Most wretched.~Athenian. Then not only an old man
150 1 | Cleinias. Well said, Stranger.~Athenian. Is there any argument which
151 1 | maintain such a doctrine.~Athenian. True, I was; and I am ready
152 1 | into utter degradation.~Athenian. Are you speaking of the
153 1 | the soul?~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. And what would you say
154 1 | decrepitude?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Yet when a man goes of
155 1 | all that is well known.~Athenian. Also that they go of their
156 1 | benefit?~Cleinias. Very good.~Athenian. And we may conceive this
157 1 | practices?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And the same view may be
158 1 | follows?~Cleinias. To be sure.~Athenian. If such convivialities
159 1 | to be derived from them.~Athenian. That is just what we must
160 1 | Cleinias. What are they?~Athenian. There is the fear of expected
161 1 | expected evil.~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. And there is the fear of
162 1 | shame.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. These are the two fears,
163 1 | pleasures.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And does not the legislator
164 1 | states.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Does not this kind of fear
165 1 | friends.~Cleinias. There are.~Athenian. Then each of us should
166 1 | determined.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And when we want to make
167 1 | fears.~Cleinias. Clearly.~Athenian. And when we want to make
168 1 | most unlikely supposition.~Athenian. Suppose that some God had
169 1 | really been known among men?~Athenian. No; but, if there had been,
170 1 | the answer of every one.~Athenian. “And you would rather have
171 1 | every one may safely agree.~Athenian. “And in order to make use
172 1 | Stranger, to use the potion.~Athenian. This would be a mode of
173 1 | equally show his self–control.~Athenian. Let us return to the lawgiver,
174 1 | that wine is such a potion.~Athenian. Is not the effect of this
175 1 | description.~Megillus. Certainly.~Athenian. Now, let us remember, as
176 1 | reverence, if I am not mistaken.~Athenian. Thank you for reminding
177 1 | That is probably the case.~Athenian. There are times and seasons
178 1 | is base.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Are not the moments in
179 1 | That is certainly true.~Athenian. And this knowledge of the
180 2 | BOOK II~Athenian Stranger. And now we have
181 2 | error.~Cleinias. Proceed.~Athenian. Let me once more recall
182 2 | You talk rather grandly.~Athenian. Pleasure and pain I maintain
183 2 | saying about education.~Athenian. I am glad to hear that
184 2 | say?~Cleinias. I assent.~Athenian. And the uneducated is he
185 2 | trained?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And the chorus is made
186 2 | and song?~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Then he who is well educated
187 2 | I suppose that he will.~Athenian. Let us see; what are we
188 2 | saying?~Cleinias. What?~Athenian. He sings well and dances
189 2 | Let us make the addition.~Athenian. We will suppose that he
190 2 | two kinds of education.~Athenian. If we three know what is
191 2 | or not.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Let us follow the scent
192 2 | barbarian.~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. And what is beauty of figure,
193 2 | colours of their faces differ?~Athenian. Good, my friend; I may
194 2 | that these things are so.~Athenian. Once more, are all of us
195 2 | Cleinias. Far otherwise.~Athenian. What, then, leads us astray?
196 2 | delusion.~Cleinias. What?~Athenian. The adaptation of art to
197 2 | them.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And is any harm done to
198 2 | I think that there is.~Athenian. “I think” is not the word,
199 2 | Cleinias. I know of none.~Athenian. Then in a city which has
200 2 | is not to be thought of.~Athenian. And yet he may do this
201 2 | music and dancing in Egypt?~Athenian. You will wonder when I
202 2 | Cleinias. How extraordinary!~Athenian. I should rather say, How
203 2 | seem to prove your point.~Athenian. May we not confidently
204 2 | rejoice?~Cleinias. Exactly.~Athenian. And when rejoicing in our
205 2 | be still?~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Our young men break forth
206 2 | youth.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. Is it altogether unmeaning
207 2 | acting?~Cleinias. Possibly.~Athenian. But, my dear friend, let
208 2 | Cleinias. In what respect?~Athenian. There would be various
209 2 | the question is absurd.~Athenian. Well, then, if neither
210 2 | Cleinias. By all means.~Athenian. If very small children
211 2 | show.~Cleinias. Of course.~Athenian. The older children will
212 2 | Cleinias. Very likely.~Athenian. And I believe that we old
213 2 | question.~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. Clearly you and I will
214 2 | world.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Thus far I too should agree
215 2 | tell you?~Cleinias. What?~Athenian. The inference at which
216 2 | they are never the same.~Athenian. Most true, Cleinias; and
217 2 | Cleinias. Certainly they are.~Athenian. And if they were extended
218 2 | saying ought to prevail.~Athenian. Let us see whether we understand
219 2 | agree and partly do not.~Athenian. When a man has health and
220 2 | Cleinias. That is quite true.~Athenian. Once more: Suppose that
221 2 | much?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And an evil life too?~Cleinias.
222 2 | disposed to grant that.~Athenian. Will he not live painfully
223 2 | How can I possibly say so?~Athenian. How! Then may Heaven make
224 2 | base?~Cleinias. Impossible.~Athenian. The view which identifies
225 2 | of them.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. And which may be supposed
226 2 | that of the better soul.~Athenian. Then the unjust life must
227 2 | in the present argument.~Athenian. And even supposing this
228 2 | are hard to be persuaded.~Athenian. And yet the story of the
229 2 | Cleinias. What is that story?~Athenian. The story of armed men
230 2 | what you are now saying.~Athenian. The next suggestion which
231 2 | assent to what you say.~Athenian. First will enter in their
232 2 | mean to say about them.~Athenian. And yet almost all that
233 2 | to be a little plainer?~Athenian. I was speaking at the commencement
234 2 | Cleinias. I quite remember.~Athenian. Thus far I have spoken
235 2 | to dance in his honour.~Athenian. Very true; and therefore
236 2 | proposal.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Are we agreed thus far?~
237 2 | far?~Cleinias. About what?~Athenian. That every man and boy,
238 2 | Cleinias. Every one will agree.~Athenian. Where, then, will that
239 2 | we cannot let them off.~Athenian. Then how can we carry out
240 2 | the way?~Cleinias. What?~Athenian. When a man is advancing
241 2 | true?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Well, and will he not be
242 2 | exhibit.~Cleinias. No doubt.~Athenian. How, then, shall we reassure
243 2 | will be far more ready.~Athenian. There will be no impropriety
244 2 | Cleinias. None at all.~Athenian. And what strain will they
245 2 | them.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And what strain is suitable
246 2 | accustomed to sing in our chorus.~Athenian. I dare say; for you have
247 2 | depreciate our lawgivers.~Athenian. Not intentionally, if at
248 2 | best.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. When things have an accompanying
249 2 | rightness.~Cleinias. Just so.~Athenian. Thus, too, I should say
250 2 | to it.~Cleinias. Exactly.~Athenian. And so in the imitative
251 2 | a charm?~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. But equal proportions,
252 2 | rightness.~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. Then that only can be rightly
253 2 | harmless pleasure, are you not?~Athenian. Yes; and this I term amusement,
254 2 | of.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. Then, if such be our principles,
255 2 | whatever.~Cleinias. Quite true.~Athenian. Do we not regard all music
256 2 | imitative?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Then, when any one says
257 2 | good.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And those who seek for
258 2 | quality.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And every one will admit
259 2 | this?~Cleinias. They will.~Athenian. Surely then he who would
260 2 | Cleinias. Certainly not.~Athenian. And will he who does not
261 2 | another way.~Cleinias. How?~Athenian. There are ten thousand
262 2 | of sight?~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. And can he who does not
263 2 | imitated?~Cleinias. Impossible.~Athenian. But even if we know that
264 2 | us be judges of beauty.~Athenian. Very true; and may we not
265 2 | rhythms?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Then let us not faint in
266 2 | Cleinias. Clearly they cannot.~Athenian. The many are ridiculous
267 2 | Cleinias. That is most certain.~Athenian. But can a man who does
268 2 | right?~Cleinias. Impossible.~Athenian. Then now, as would appear,
269 2 | case.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Every man has a more than
270 2 | mankind.~Cleinias. Quite true.~Athenian. Were we not saying that
271 2 | and shame?~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. And the guardians of these
272 2 | greater.~Cleinias. Right.~Athenian. If, then, drinking and
273 2 | regulated as you propose.~Athenian. Let us not then simply
274 2 | Cleinias. To what do you refer?~Athenian. There is a tradition or
275 2 | To be sure, I remember.~Athenian. And did we not say that
276 2 | them?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. The other story implied
277 2 | precisely what was said.~Athenian. Then half the subject may
278 2 | you divide the subject?~Athenian. The whole choral art is
279 2 | the voice.~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. The movement of the body
280 2 | voice.~Cleinias. Most true.~Athenian. And the sound of the voice
281 2 | Cleinias. We were right.~Athenian. And the movement of the
282 2 | gymnastic.~Cleinias. Exactly.~Athenian. Music, which was one half
283 2 | make to such an enquiry?~Athenian. An answer is contained
284 2 | understand me; do as you say.~Athenian. I will; and there will
285 2 | Cleinias. There will not.~Athenian. Is not the origin of gymnastics,
286 2 | art?~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And one part of this subject
287 2 | discussed?~Cleinias. Exactly.~Athenian. I have first a final word
288 2 | What more have you to say?~Athenian. I should say that if a
289 3 | BOOK III~Athenian Stranger. Enough of this.
290 3 | Cleinias. What do you mean?~Athenian. I mean that he might watch
291 3 | ages.~Cleinias. How so?~Athenian. Why, do you think that
292 3 | them?~Cleinias. Hardly.~Athenian. But are sure that it must
293 3 | incalculable?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And have not thousands
294 3 | declining?~Cleinias. To be sure.~Athenian. Let us endeavour to ascertain
295 3 | effort to understand you.~Athenian. Do you believe that there
296 3 | Cleinias. What traditions?~Athenian. The traditions about the
297 3 | disposed to believe them.~Athenian. Let us consider one of
298 3 | we to observe about it?~Athenian. I mean to say that those
299 3 | mountains.~Cleinias. Clearly.~Athenian. Such survivors would necessarily
300 3 | another.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. Let us suppose, then, that
301 3 | time.~Cleinias. Very good.~Athenian. Would not all implements
302 3 | which are but of yesterday.~Athenian. Have you forgotten, Cleinias,
303 3 | that you mean Epimenides.~Athenian. The same, my friend; he
304 3 | according to our tradition.~Athenian. After the great destruction,
305 3 | tended them?~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. And of cities or governments
306 3 | Cleinias. None whatever.~Athenian. And out of this state of
307 3 | Cleinias. What do you mean?~Athenian. Why, my good friend, how
308 3 | and you are quite right.~Athenian. But, as time advanced and
309 3 | is.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. Doubtless the change was
310 3 | highly probable supposition.~Athenian. At first, they would have
311 3 | plain.~Cleinias. Of course.~Athenian. The fewness of the survivors
312 3 | There could not have been.~Athenian. In how many generations
313 3 | not for many generations.~Athenian. During this period, and
314 3 | disappear.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Faction and war would also
315 3 | Cleinias. How would that be?~Athenian. In the first place, the
316 3 | those of my friend here.~Athenian. Would not many generations
317 3 | explained.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. I should wish you to understand
318 3 | has been very well said.~Athenian. They could hardly have
319 3 | called.~Cleinias. Probably.~Athenian. But there was already existing
320 3 | tradition to barbarism.~Athenian. Yes, he does confirm it;
321 3 | arise.~Cleinias. We may.~Athenian. And were not such states
322 3 | just?~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. After this they came together
323 3 | least we may suppose so.~Athenian. There is another thing
324 3 | happen.~Cleinias. What?~Athenian. When these larger habitations
325 3 | laws.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And every man surely likes
326 3 | so well.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Then now we seem to have
327 3 | legislation.~Cleinias. Exactly.~Athenian. The next step will be that
328 3 | natural order of things.~Athenian. Then, now let us speak
329 3 | Cleinias. What is that?~Athenian. The form which in fact
330 3 | attain truth.~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. Then now let us proceed
331 3 | Cleinias. By all means.~Athenian. Ilium was built, when they
332 3 | Such is the tradition.~Athenian. And we must suppose this
333 3 | many ages after the deluge?~Athenian. A marvellous forgetfulness
334 3 | long interval, clearly.~Athenian. And, as population increased,
335 3 | inhabited.~Cleinias. Doubtless.~Athenian. Those cities made war against
336 3 | sea.~Cleinias. Clearly.~Athenian. The Achaeans remained ten
337 3 | overthrew Troy.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. And during the ten years
338 3 | Sparta.~Megillus. To be sure.~Athenian. Thus, after digressing
339 3 | short for the discussion.~Athenian. Then I suppose that we
340 3 | subject?~Megillus. Certainly.~Athenian. Let us place ourselves
341 3 | Lacedaemon.~Megillus. True.~Athenian. Temenus was the king of
342 3 | Lacedaemon.~Megillus. Certainly.~Athenian. To these kings all the
343 3 | kingdom.~Megillus. True.~Athenian. But can a kingship be destroyed,
344 3 | while ago?~Megillus. No.~Athenian. And may we not now further
345 3 | the fact?~Megillus. Yes.~Athenian. And the three states to
346 3 | Megillus. What security?~Athenian. That the other two states
347 3 | rebellious third.~Megillus. True.~Athenian. Many persons say that legislators
348 3 | manner.~Megillus. Exactly.~Athenian. Whereas the physician may
349 3 | pain.~Megillus. Certainly.~Athenian. There was also another
350 3 | Megillus. What advantage?~Athenian. The legislators of that
351 3 | standing.~Megillus. Very true.~Athenian. But then, my good friends,
352 3 | and why do you blame them?~Athenian. There were three kingdoms,
353 3 | is not easily answered.~Athenian. And yet must be answered
354 3 | must find out why this was.~Athenian. What laws are more worthy
355 3 | Megillus. I know of none.~Athenian. Can we doubt that your
356 3 | states?~Megillus. Quite true.~Athenian. And would not men who had
357 3 | Megillus. Of course they would.~Athenian. Yet these institutions,
358 3 | war.~Megillus. No doubt.~Athenian. But what was the ruin of
359 3 | here presented to his view.~Athenian. Then now we seem to have
360 3 | question.~Megillus. Very true.~Athenian. Did you never remark, sage
361 3 | referring, and what do you mean?~Athenian. I was thinking of my own
362 3 | we in assenting to you?~Athenian. Perhaps; and yet I cannot
363 3 | would he not be justified?~Athenian. Reflect; in what point
364 3 | had?~Megillus. Very good.~Athenian. Suppose any one were in
365 3 | desires.~Megillus. He would.~Athenian. Well, now, and does not
366 3 | mankind?~Megillus. What is it?~Athenian. The desire which a man
367 3 | desire.~Megillus. Certainly.~Athenian. And having this desire
368 3 | it.~Megillus. No doubt.~Athenian. And we join in the prayers
369 3 | themselves.~Megillus. We do.~Athenian. Dear is the son to the
370 3 | elder.~Megillus. Of course.~Athenian. And yet the son often prays
371 3 | young and foolish, you mean?~Athenian. Yes; or when the father,
372 3 | pray and strive for wisdom.~Athenian. Yes; and I remember, and
373 3 | if Heaven wills. Go on.~Athenian. Well, then, proceeding
374 3 | Cleinias. That is evident.~Athenian. Then now consider what
375 3 | opinion is—~Cleinias. What?~Athenian. That the greatest ignorance
376 3 | we understand and agree.~Athenian. Let us, then, in the first
377 3 | Let it be so laid down.~Athenian. I suppose that there must
378 3 | states?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And what are the principles
379 3 | offspring?~Cleinias. There is.~Athenian. Next follows the principle
380 3 | obey?~Cleinias. To be sure.~Athenian. And, fourthly, that slaves
381 3 | rule?~Cleinias. Of course.~Athenian. Fifthly, if I am not mistaken,
382 3 | rule not to be disobeyed.~Athenian. Yes, and a rule which prevails
383 3 | compulsion.~Cleinias. Most true.~Athenian. There is a seventh kind
384 3 | just.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. “Then now,” as we say playfully
385 3 | worse.”~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And may we suppose this
386 3 | proud and luxurious life.~Athenian. Is it not palpable that
387 3 | Cleinias. Very likely.~Athenian. Good; and what measures
388 3 | Megillus. What do you mean?~Athenian. Any one who looks at what
389 3 | Speak a little more clearly.~Athenian. Nothing can be clearer
390 3 | make.~Megillus. What is it?~Athenian. That if any one gives too
391 3 | follows:—~Megillus. What?~Athenian. A God, who watched over
392 3 | despised.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. There was small credit
393 3 | the legislator should aim.~Athenian. Hear me, then: there are
394 3 | both.~Cleinias. Impossible.~Athenian. Neither the one, if it
395 3 | to elucidate our subject.~Athenian. Hear, then:—There was a
396 3 | appears to have been the case.~Athenian. How, then, was this advantage
397 3 | bearing upon our subject.~Athenian. I imagine that Cyrus, though
398 3 | What makes you say so?~Athenian. I think that from his youth
399 3 | splendid education truly!~Athenian. Such an one as women were
400 3 | What would you expect?~Athenian. Their father had possessions
401 3 | probably were the facts.~Athenian. Yes; and the tradition
402 3 | chiefs.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Let us note the rest of
403 3 | What do you mean, Stranger?~Athenian. I suppose that courage
404 3 | virtue?~Megillus. To be sure.~Athenian. Then, now hear and judge
405 3 | Megillus. Heaven forbid!~Athenian. Or an artist, who was clever
406 3 | Megillus. Certainly not.~Athenian. And surely justice does
407 3 | temperance?~Megillus. Impossible.~Athenian. Any more than our pattern
408 3 | intemperate?~Megillus. No.~Athenian. There is a further consideration
409 3 | states.~Megillus. What is it?~Athenian. I should like to know whether
410 3 | Megillus. I cannot tell.~Athenian. And that is the best answer;
411 3 | Megillus. I am fortunate.~Athenian. Very good; a quality, which
412 3 | speaking of temperance?~Athenian. Yes; but of the other virtues,
413 3 | regular order.~Megillus. True.~Athenian. And ought not the legislator
414 3 | Megillus. Certainly he should.~Athenian. Suppose that we leave to
415 3 | ourselves.~Megillus. Very; good.~Athenian. We maintain, then, that
416 3 | that be plainly declared.~Athenian. The consideration of the
417 3 | silver.~Megillus. Quite true.~Athenian. And now enough of the Persians,
418 3 | among them.~Megillus. Good.~Athenian. Next, we must pass in review
419 3 | limited, which was our ancient Athenian constitution at the time
420 3 | dispersed.~Megillus. Your words, Athenian, are quite true, and worthy
421 3 | yourself and of your country.~Athenian. They are true, Megillus;
422 3 | us a fuller explanation.~Athenian. I will. Under the ancient
423 3 | What laws do you mean?~Athenian. In the first place, let
424 3 | liberty?~Megillus. Very true.~Athenian. Consequent upon this freedom
425 3 | said?~Megillus. Very good.~Athenian. This, then, has been said
426 3 | sake—~Megillus. Of what?~Athenian. We were maintaining that
427 3 | not?~Megillus. Certainly.~Athenian. With a view to this we
428 3 | gainers.~Megillus. Very true.~Athenian. And that was our reason
429 3 | which is in contemplation.~Athenian. Good news, Cleinias; if
430 4 | BOOK IV~Athenian Stranger. And now, what
431 4 | stadia distant from the sea.~Athenian. And are there harbours
432 4 | there could not be better.~Athenian. Alas! what a prospect!
433 4 | Hardly in need of anything.~Athenian. And is there any neighbouring
434 4 | deserted from time immemorial.~Athenian. And has the place a fair
435 4 | the rest of Crete in that.~Athenian. You mean to say that there
436 4 | plain?~Cleinias. Exactly.~Athenian. Then there is some hope
437 4 | were and are in the right.~Athenian. Well, but let me ask, how
438 4 | for the interior of ships.~Athenian. These are also natural
439 4 | advantages.~Cleinias. Why so?~Athenian. Because no city ought to
440 4 | which we have been speaking?~Athenian. Remember, my good friend,
441 4 | the salvation of Hellas.~Athenian. Why, yes; and that is an
442 4 | already.~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. Then we have only to ask
443 4 | Cleinias. The best by far.~Athenian. And now let me proceed
444 4 | Gortys in the Peloponnesus.~Athenian. Cities find colonization
445 4 | to know why you say so.~Athenian. My good friend, I am afraid
446 4 | what are you referring?~Athenian. I was going to say that
447 4 | them.~Cleinias. What is it?~Athenian. That God governs all things,
448 4 | would agree?~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. And does not a like principle
449 4 | scene?~Cleinias. Most true.~Athenian. In each case the artist
450 4 | art?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And all the other artists
451 4 | so?~Cleinias. Of course.~Athenian. And the legislator would
452 4 | I believe that he would.~Athenian. “Come, legislator,” we
453 4 | his answer?~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. He will say—”Give me a
454 4 | speaks, must be temperance?~Athenian. Yes, Cleinias, temperance
455 4 | meaning.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Then our tyrant must have
456 4 | such a monstrous doctrine?~Athenian. There is surely no difficulty
457 4 | courageous, of a noble nature?~Athenian. Yes; and you must add fortunate;
458 4 | is not that your meaning?~Athenian. Not so; I mean rather to
459 4 | How? I do not understand.~Athenian. And yet I have repeated
460 4 | great desire to see one.~Athenian. And yet, where there is
461 4 | Cleinias. What do you mean?~Athenian. I mean that you might see
462 4 | and of compelling them?~Athenian. Let no one, my friends,
463 4 | Of what are you speaking?~Athenian. The difficulty is to find
464 4 | Cleinias. How do you mean?~Athenian. Let us try to amuse ourselves,
465 4 | us proceed without delay.~Athenian. Then let us invoke God
466 4 | Cleinias. May he come!~Athenian. But what form of polity
467 4 | you would include tyranny.~Athenian. Which of you will first
468 4 | Cnosus is any of these.~Athenian. The reason is, my excellent
469 4 | Cleinias. And who is this God?~Athenian. May I still make use of
470 4 | Cleinias. By all means.~Athenian. In the primeval world,
471 4 | necessary to hear about that.~Athenian. I quite agree with you;
472 4 | giving us the whole story.~Athenian. I will do as you suggest.
473 4 | Cleinias. Certainly we will.~Athenian. You are aware—are you not?—
474 4 | justice.~Cleinias. How?~Athenian. Justice is said by them
475 4 | Cleinias. Speak plainer.~Athenian. I will:—”Surely,” they
476 4 | state?”~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. “Well,” they would add, “
477 4 | can they have any other?~Athenian. “And whoever transgresses
478 4 | just?”~Cleinias. Naturally.~Athenian. “This, then, is always
479 4 | are correct in their view.~Athenian. Why, yes, this is one of
480 4 | Cleinias. Which do you mean?~Athenian. Those which we were examining
481 4 | Cleinias. Yes; I remember.~Athenian. Consider, then, to whom
482 4 | states—~Cleinias. What thing?~Athenian. That when there has been
483 4 | the keen vision of age.~Athenian. Why, yes; every man when
484 4 | keenest.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And now, what is to be
485 4 | them?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. “Friends,” we say to them,—”
486 4 | can be no doubt of that.~Athenian. Then what life is agreeable
487 4 | Cleinias. What is that?~Athenian. I should wish the citizens
488 4 | laws.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. The proposal appears to
489 4 | he certainly speaks well.~Athenian. Very true: and now let
490 4 | upon me.~Cleinias. Proceed.~Athenian. Suppose that we have a
491 4 | Cleinias. Of course he can.~Athenian. “Did we not hear you just
492 4 | Cleinias. That is true.~Athenian. May we not fairly make
493 4 | answer shall we make to him?~Athenian. That the poet, according
494 4 | Cleinias. Certainly not.~Athenian. And is our legislator to
495 4 | doctors.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And whether they are slaves
496 4 | doctors?~Cleinias. To be sure.~Athenian. And did you ever observe
497 4 | double way is far better.~Athenian. Should you like to see
498 4 | Cleinias. Certainly I should.~Athenian. What will be our first
499 4 | births?~Cleinias. He will.~Athenian. In all states the birth
500 4 | marriage?~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And, according to the true