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Alphabetical [« »] cleave 1 cleaving 1 cleft 1 cleinias 972 cleito 4 cleitophon 11 clements 2 | Frequency [« »] 987 either 983 just 974 truth 972 cleinias 972 does 958 mean 952 both | Plato Partial collection IntraText - Concordances cleinias |
Cratylus Part
1 Intro| transitions to good and evil?~CLEINIAS: What do you mean?~ATHENIAN 2 Intro| them during infinite ages.~CLEINIAS: How so?~ATHENIAN STRANGER: 3 Intro| men were citizens of them?~CLEINIAS: Hardly.~ATHENIAN STRANGER: 4 Intro| be vast and incalculable?~CLEINIAS: No doubt.~ATHENIAN STRANGER: Euthydemus Part
5 Intro| interested in the youth Cleinias, the grandson of the great 6 Intro| two brothers, the youth Cleinias, who is watched by the eager 7 Intro| brothers shall question Cleinias. ‘Cleinias,’ says Euthydemus, ‘ 8 Intro| shall question Cleinias. ‘Cleinias,’ says Euthydemus, ‘who 9 Intro| is afraid that the youth Cleinias may be discouraged at these 10 Intro| He proceeds to question Cleinias. The result of the investigation 11 Intro| wisdom be taught? ‘Yes,’ says Cleinias. The ingenuousness of the 12 Intro| wisdom.’ ‘That I will,’ says Cleinias.~After Socrates has given 13 Intro| another sort.~‘You want Cleinias to be wise?’ ‘Yes.’ ‘And 14 Intro| Ctesippus, the lover of Cleinias, interposes in great excitement, 15 Intro| renews the conversation with Cleinias. The two Sophists are like 16 Intro| arrived at the conclusion that Cleinias must become a philosopher. 17 Intro| acquires. The two enquirers, Cleinias and Socrates, are described 18 Intro| what?’ At length in despair Cleinias and Socrates turn to the ‘ 19 Intro| to the great delight of Cleinias, who is rebuked by Socrates 20 Intro| they will receive him and Cleinias among their disciples.~Crito 21 Intro| habits. There is the youth Cleinias, the grandson of Alcibiades, 22 Intro| invented the answers of Cleinias (compare Phaedrus). The 23 Intro| Ctesippus, who is the lover of Cleinias, has been already introduced 24 Intro| declaration of the youth Cleinias; and (4) not yet to have 25 Text | of the Dialogue. Crito, Cleinias, Euthydemus, Dionysodorus, 26 Text | side. In the middle was Cleinias the young son of Axiochus, 27 Text | two or three turns when Cleinias entered, who, as you truly 28 Text | having the wildness of youth. Cleinias saw me from the entrance 29 Text | time; and then I said to Cleinias: Here are two wise men, 30 Text | Euthydemus and Dionysodorus, Cleinias, wise not in a small but 31 Text | and there is the youth Cleinias, and Ctesippus: and here 32 Text | pointing to the lovers of Cleinias, who were beginning to gather 33 Text | sitting at some distance from Cleinias; and when Euthydemus leaned 34 Text | was prevented from seeing Cleinias, who was between us; and 35 Text | all the other admirers of Cleinias, as well as the disciples 36 Text | truly good. His name is Cleinias, and he is the son of Axiochus, 37 Text | began nearly as follows: O Cleinias, are those who learn the 38 Text | disconcerted, said: Take courage, Cleinias, and answer like a man whichever 39 Text | While he was speaking to me, Cleinias gave his answer: and therefore 40 Text | learn, and not the wise, Cleinias, as you imagine.~At these 41 Text | in hand, and said: Yes, Cleinias; and when the grammar-master 42 Text | dictation?~The wise, replied Cleinias.~Then after all the wise 43 Text | your disciples.~Meanwhile Cleinias had answered Euthydemus 44 Text | letters learns?~Nay, said Cleinias; but I do learn.~Then, said 45 Text | another throw at the youth. Cleinias, he said, Euthydemus is 46 Text | of that which one learns?~Cleinias assented.~And knowing is 47 Text | who have?~He agreed.~Then, Cleinias, he said, those who do not 48 Text | You must not be surprised, Cleinias, at the singularity of their 49 Text | happiness?~There is no one, said Cleinias, who does not.~Well, then, 50 Text | verily and indeed think, Cleinias, that we shall be more right 51 Text | say?~They are goods, said Cleinias.~Very well, I said; and 52 Text | think that we have, said Cleinias.~Upon recollection, I said, 53 Text | that? he asked.~Fortune, Cleinias, I replied; which all, even 54 Text | to him: Do you not know, Cleinias, that flute-players are 55 Text | having them?~True.~Well, Cleinias, but if you have the use 56 Text | allowed by us.~Then, I said, Cleinias, the sum of the matter appears 57 Text | not at all dishonourable, Cleinias; nor is any one to be blamed 58 Text | are right.~Yes, I said, Cleinias, if only wisdom can be taught, 59 Text | so you say that you wish Cleinias to become wise?~Undoubtedly.~ 60 Text | to repeat, as that I wish Cleinias to perish?~Euthydemus replied: 61 Text | has no existence, or do to Cleinias that which is not and is 62 Text | repeat what I said before to Cleinias—that you do not understand 63 Text | also may be serious. You, Cleinias, I said, shall remind me 64 Text | should say, no, rejoined Cleinias.~And why should you say 65 Text | very extraordinary men, Cleinias, and their art is lofty 66 Text | what is your notion? asked Cleinias.~I think that the art of 67 Text | said, fairest and wisest Cleinias. And is this true?~Certainly, 68 Text | Socrates.~SOCRATES: And Cleinias and I had arrived at the 69 Text | upon his mettle because Cleinias was present).~When you are 70 Text | with him. This delighted Cleinias, whose laughter made Ctesippus 71 Text | time. Why do you laugh, Cleinias, I said, at such solemn 72 Text | request that you will receive Cleinias and me among your pupils.~ The First Alcibiades Part
73 Intro| practises upon the youthful Cleinias in the Euthydemus; and he 74 Text | surprised to find, O son of Cleinias, that I, who am your first 75 Text | to tell you, sweet son of Cleinias and Dinomache. The explanation 76 Text | Coronea, at which your father Cleinias met his end, the question 77 Text | Alcibiades, the fair son of Cleinias, not understanding about 78 Text | did he make your brother, Cleinias, wise?~ALCIBIADES: Cleinias 79 Text | Cleinias, wise?~ALCIBIADES: Cleinias is a madman; there is no 80 Text | of him.~SOCRATES: But if Cleinias is a madman and the two 81 Text | of Alcibiades the son of Cleinias; there neither is nor ever Gorgias Part
82 Text | of Alcibiades, the son of Cleinias, and of philosophy; and 83 Text | other love, for the son of Cleinias says one thing to-day and Laws Book
84 1 | DIALOGUE: An ATHENIAN STRANGER; CLEINIAS, a Cretan; MEGILLUS, a Lacedaemonian~ 85 1 | the author of your laws?~Cleinias. A God, Stranger; in very 86 1 | Certainly.~Athenian. And do you, Cleinias, believe, as Homer tells, 87 1 | make laws for your cities?~Cleinias. Yes, that is our tradition; 88 1 | the time by conversation.~Cleinias. Yes, Stranger, and if we 89 1 | converse.~Athenian. Very good.~Cleinias. Very good, indeed; and 90 1 | exercises, and wear arms.~Cleinias. I think, Stranger, that 91 1 | this to be your meaning?~Cleinias. Certainly; and our Lacedaemonian 92 1 | states, or also to villages?~Cleinias. To both alike.~Athenian. 93 1 | Athenian. The case is the same?~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. And in the 94 1 | individual against individual?~Cleinias. The same.~Athenian. And 95 1 | enemy:—what shall we say?~Cleinias. O Athenian Stranger—inhabitant 96 1 | sir, what do you mean?)—~Cleinias. ... Moreover, there is 97 1 | village, and the state?~Cleinias. You mean that in each of 98 1 | to self?~Athenian. Yes.~Cleinias. You are quite right in 99 1 | superior and therefore good.~Cleinias. Your remark, Stranger, 100 1 | just may be in a minority.~Cleinias. Very possibly.~Athenian. 101 1 | right and wrong in laws.~Cleinias. What you say, Stranger, 102 1 | of whom we were speaking?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Now, 103 1 | able to keep them friends.~Cleinias. The last would be by far 104 1 | would be the reverse of war.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And 105 1 | of as soon as possible?~Cleinias. He would have the latter 106 1 | attention to foreign enemies?~Cleinias. Every one would desire 107 1 | desire of the legislator?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And 108 1 | for the sake of the best?~Cleinias. To be sure.~Athenian. But 109 1 | war for the sake of peace.~Cleinias. I suppose that there is 110 1 | them.~Megillus. Very true.~Cleinias. And they have found their 111 1 | and I and Megillus and Cleinias of Cnosus do, as I believe, 112 1 | milder form of warfare.~Cleinias. Certainly, far milder.~ 113 1 | and he must admit this.~Cleinias. Evidently.~Athenian. They 114 1 | to be only fourth rate.~Cleinias. Stranger, we are degrading 115 1 | mainly with a view to war.~Cleinias. What ought we to say then?~ 116 1 | you expound the matter?~Cleinias. By all means.~Athenian. 117 1 | mankind like ourselves.~Cleinias. How shall we proceed, Stranger?~ 118 1 | themselves:—Were you not, Cleinias?~Cleinias. I was.~Athenian. 119 1 | Were you not, Cleinias?~Cleinias. I was.~Athenian. Now, which 120 1 | by pleasure or by pain?~Cleinias. I should say the man who 121 1 | which come from the right?~Cleinias. Able to meet both, I should 122 1 | which I might mention.~Cleinias. Neither can I show anything 123 1 | kindly what another says.~Cleinias. You are quite right, Athenian 124 1 | Athenian. At our time of life, Cleinias, there should be no feeling 125 1 | no feeling of irritation.~Cleinias. Certainly not.~Athenian. 126 1 | no young man is present.~Cleinias. Exactly so, Stranger; and 127 1 | matters now that we are alone.~Cleinias. True. And therefore you 128 1 | you assent to my words?~Cleinias. On first hearing, what 129 1 | simple.~Athenian. Suppose, Cleinias and Megillus, that we consider 130 1 | they were utterly wrong.~Cleinias. What do you mean, Stranger, 131 1 | there ought to be a leader?~Cleinias. Certainly I should.~Athenian. 132 1 | ought to be a brave man?~Cleinias. We were.~Athenian. The 133 1 | to be disturbed by fears?~Cleinias. That again is true.~Athenian. 134 1 | by all means appoint him?~Cleinias. Assuredly.~Athenian. Now, 135 1 | friend in time of peace.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. And that 136 1 | drunkenness, is apt to be unquiet.~Cleinias. Certainly; the reverse 137 1 | soldiers will require a ruler?~Cleinias. To be sure; no men more 138 1 | them with a quiet ruler?~Cleinias. Of course.~Athenian. And 139 1 | his use of the occasion.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. Must 140 1 | from doing some great evil.~Cleinias. It will be by a singular 141 1 | which he has the direction?~Cleinias. The last remark is very 142 1 | education is never suicidal.~Cleinias. You seem to imply, my friend, 143 1 | Athenian. Certainly I do.~Cleinias. And can you show that what 144 1 | laws and constitutions.~Cleinias. Your opinion, Stranger, 145 1 | whatever you have to say.~Cleinias. Yes, Stranger; and when 146 1 | onwards to the God Dionysus.~Cleinias. Let us proceed, if you 147 1 | whether they satisfy you?~Cleinias. Let us hear.~Athenian. 148 1 | agree with me thus far?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Then 149 1 | every man while he lives.~Cleinias. Very true; and we entirely 150 1 | and bad men who are not.~Cleinias. You are quite right.~Athenian. 151 1 | which I will offer you.~Cleinias. Proceed.~Athenian. Do we 152 1 | of ourselves to be one?~Cleinias. We do.~Athenian. And each 153 1 | pleasure, and the other pain.~Cleinias. Exactly.~Athenian. Also 154 1 | the State, is called Law.~Cleinias. I am hardly able to follow 155 1 | words than were necessary.~Cleinias. Perhaps, however, the theme 156 1 | bears on our present object.~Cleinias. Proceed.~Athenian. Suppose 157 1 | will be the effect on him?~Cleinias. Having what in view do 158 1 | and passions and loves?~Cleinias. Very greatly.~Athenian. 159 1 | becomes saturated with drink?~Cleinias. Yes, they entirely desert 160 1 | was when a young child?~Cleinias. He does.~Athenian. Then 161 1 | least control over himself?~Cleinias. The least.~Athenian. And 162 1 | a most wretched plight?~Cleinias. Most wretched.~Athenian. 163 1 | becomes a second time a child?~Cleinias. Well said, Stranger.~Athenian. 164 1 | all we can to avoid it?~Cleinias. I suppose that there is; 165 1 | are anxious to hear me.~Cleinias. To sure we are, if only 166 1 | you speaking of the soul?~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. And what 167 1 | ugliness, decrepitude?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Yet 168 1 | to a state of weakness?~Cleinias. Yes, all that is well known.~ 169 1 | the subsequent benefit?~Cleinias. Very good.~Athenian. And 170 1 | way of other practices?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And 171 1 | same good effect follows?~Cleinias. To be sure.~Athenian. If 172 1 | no accompaniment of pain.~Cleinias. True; but I hardly think 173 1 | which are very different?~Cleinias. What are they?~Athenian. 174 1 | the fear of expected evil.~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. And there 175 1 | and all men term shame.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. These 176 1 | numerous sort of pleasures.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And 177 1 | individuals and to states.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Does not 178 1 | disgrace before friends.~Cleinias. There are.~Athenian. Then 179 1 | has now been determined.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And 180 1 | to face with many fears.~Cleinias. Clearly.~Athenian. And 181 1 | be perfectly temperate?~Cleinias. A most unlikely supposition.~ 182 1 | influence of the draught.~Cleinias. But has such a draught, 183 1 | cowardice of your citizens?”~Cleinias. “I should,” will be the 184 1 | danger than the reverse?”~Cleinias. In that proposition every 185 1 | reason for abstaining?”~Cleinias. He would be certain, Stranger, 186 1 | overcome by the potion.~Cleinias. Yes, Stranger, in that 187 1 | and indiscreet boasting?~Cleinias. I suppose that he will 188 1 | ready to do or say anything.~Cleinias. I think that every one 189 1 | secondly, the greatest fear—~Cleinias. Which you said to be characteristic 190 1 | trained among opposites.~Cleinias. That is probably the case.~ 191 1 | do anything that is base.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Are not 192 1 | speedier than any other.~Cleinias. That is certainly true.~ 193 1 | not mistaken, is politics.~Cleinias. Exactly so.~ 194 2 | may be entangled in error.~Cleinias. Proceed.~Athenian. Let 195 2 | of convivial intercourse.~Cleinias. You talk rather grandly.~ 196 2 | rightly called education.~Cleinias. I think, Stranger, that 197 2 | Muses? What do you say?~Cleinias. I assent.~Athenian. And 198 2 | who has been well trained?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And 199 2 | two parts, dance and song?~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Then he 200 2 | to sing and dance well?~Cleinias. I suppose that he will.~ 201 2 | see; what are we saying?~Cleinias. What?~Athenian. He sings 202 2 | and dances what is good?~Cleinias. Let us make the addition.~ 203 2 | offended at what is evil?~Cleinias. There is a great difference, 204 2 | whether there is any or not.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Let us 205 2 | whether Hellenic or barbarian.~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. And what 206 2 | utterance to the same sounds?~Cleinias. How can they, when the 207 2 | are the reverse of good.~Cleinias. Your suggestion is excellent; 208 2 | with every sort of dance?~Cleinias. Far otherwise.~Athenian. 209 2 | account of the delusion.~Cleinias. What?~Athenian. The adaptation 210 2 | secret pleasure in them.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And 211 2 | opposite sort of pleasure?~Cleinias. I think that there is.~ 212 2 | destiny ever make us undergo?~Cleinias. I know of none.~Athenian. 213 2 | reference to virtue or vice?~Cleinias. That is surely quite unreasonable, 214 2 | the exception of Egypt.~Cleinias. And what are the laws about 215 2 | with just the same skill.~Cleinias. How extraordinary!~Athenian. 216 2 | being corrupted in Egypt.~Cleinias. Your arguments seem to 217 2 | prosper when we rejoice?~Cleinias. Exactly.~Athenian. And 218 2 | are unable to be still?~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Our young 219 2 | the memory of our youth.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. Is 220 2 | of speaking or of acting?~Cleinias. Possibly.~Athenian. But, 221 2 | of such a proclamation?~Cleinias. In what respect?~Athenian. 222 2 | ought to be the victor?~Cleinias. I do not see how any one 223 2 | which you deem so absurd?~Cleinias. By all means.~Athenian. 224 2 | decide for the puppet show.~Cleinias. Of course.~Athenian. The 225 2 | general, will favour tragedy.~Cleinias. Very likely.~Athenian. 226 2 | victor?—that is the question.~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. Clearly 227 2 | exist anywhere in the world.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Thus 228 2 | this? Shall I tell you?~Cleinias. What?~Athenian. The inference 229 2 | and in every way good men.~Cleinias. But do you really imagine, 230 2 | same.~Athenian. Most true, Cleinias; and I daresay that I may 231 2 | among the other Hellenes?~Cleinias. Certainly they are.~Athenian. 232 2 | present state of things?~Cleinias. A very great improvement, 233 2 | and I agreed about this?~Cleinias. I think that we partly 234 2 | miserable rather than happy.~Cleinias. That is quite true.~Athenian. 235 2 | will surely grant so much?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And 236 2 | Athenian. And an evil life too?~Cleinias. I am not equally disposed 237 2 | to his own disadvantage?~Cleinias. How can I possibly say 238 2 | are of two. To me, dear Cleinias, the truth of what I am 239 2 | pleasant, but evil and base?~Cleinias. Impossible.~Athenian. The 240 2 | appearance of both of them.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. And which 241 2 | inferior or of the better soul?~Cleinias. Surely, that of the better 242 2 | the just and holy life?~Cleinias. That seems to be implied 243 2 | compulsion but voluntarily.~Cleinias. Truth, Stranger, is a noble 244 2 | innumerable other tales.~Cleinias. What is that story?~Athenian. 245 2 | argue on the other side.~Cleinias. I do not see that any argument 246 2 | we might address to them.~Cleinias. I assent to what you say.~ 247 2 | the voice of an oracle.~Cleinias. Who are those who compose 248 2 | said with a view to them.~Cleinias. Will you try to be a little 249 2 | remember, was the third.~Cleinias. I quite remember.~Athenian. 250 2 | which is that of Dionysus.~Cleinias. How is that arranged? There 251 2 | reason for the proposal.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Are 252 2 | Are we agreed thus far?~Cleinias. About what?~Athenian. That 253 2 | may never weary of them?~Cleinias. Every one will agree.~Athenian. 254 2 | the most useful of songs?~Cleinias. But, says the argument, 255 2 | decorum? Will this be the way?~Cleinias. What?~Athenian. When a 256 2 | grows;—is not this true?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Well, 257 2 | very unwilling to exhibit.~Cleinias. No doubt.~Athenian. How, 258 2 | to chant, and to enchant?~Cleinias. He will be far more ready.~ 259 2 | to join with us in song.~Cleinias. None at all.~Athenian. 260 2 | be one suitable to them.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And 261 2 | they sing a choric strain?~Cleinias. Truly, Stranger, we of 262 2 | in individuals or states.~Cleinias. Once more, Stranger, I 263 2 | and want to have the best.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. When 264 2 | is their true rightness.~Cleinias. Just so.~Athenian. Thus, 265 2 | which the truth gives to it.~Cleinias. Exactly.~Athenian. And 266 2 | be said to have a charm?~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. But equal 267 2 | them truth or rightness.~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. Then that 268 2 | other qualities are absent.~Cleinias. You are speaking of harmless 269 2 | degree worth speaking of.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. Then, 270 2 | and by no other whatever.~Cleinias. Quite true.~Athenian. Do 271 2 | representative and imitative?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Then, 272 2 | an imitation of the good.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And 273 2 | to quantity and quality.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And 274 2 | actors all agree in this?~Cleinias. They will.~Athenian. Surely 275 2 | intention is true or false.~Cleinias. Certainly not.~Athenian. 276 2 | the matter in another way.~Cleinias. How?~Athenian. There are 277 2 | likenesses of objects of sight?~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. And can 278 2 | which has been imitated?~Cleinias. Impossible.~Athenian. But 279 2 | respect deficient in beauty?~Cleinias. If this were not required, 280 2 | and melodies and rhythms?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Then 281 2 | poet has assigned to it?~Cleinias. Clearly they cannot.~Athenian. 282 2 | and wrong when unsuitable.~Cleinias. That is most certain.~Athenian. 283 2 | that the thing is right?~Cleinias. Impossible.~Athenian. Then 284 2 | will certainly be the case.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Every 285 2 | himself and all mankind.~Cleinias. Quite true.~Athenian. Were 286 2 | called reverence and shame?~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. And the 287 2 | leaders, or even greater.~Cleinias. Right.~Athenian. If, then, 288 2 | leaders of the drunken.~Cleinias. I think so too, if drinking 289 2 | misunderstanding what is said.~Cleinias. To what do you refer?~Athenian. 290 2 | of music and gymnastic.~Cleinias. To be sure, I remember.~ 291 2 | we had to thank for them?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. The 292 2 | and strength in the body.~Cleinias. That, Stranger, is precisely 293 2 | consideration of the other half?~Cleinias. What is the other half, 294 2 | has to do with the voice.~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. The movement 295 2 | the movement of the voice.~Cleinias. Most true.~Athenian. And 296 2 | ventured to term music.~Cleinias. We were right.~Athenian. 297 2 | may be called gymnastic.~Cleinias. Exactly.~Athenian. Music, 298 2 | not? What would you like?~Cleinias. My good friend, when you 299 2 | proceed with gymnastic.~Cleinias. You quite understand me; 300 2 | familiar than with music.~Cleinias. There will not.~Athenian. 301 2 | united formed the choral art?~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And 302 2 | another to be discussed?~Cleinias. Exactly.~Athenian. I have 303 2 | will allow me to do so.~Cleinias. What more have you to say?~ 304 2 | about wine, if you agree.~Cleinias. Excellent: we agree.~ 305 3 | transitions to good or evil?~Cleinias. What do you mean?~Athenian. 306 3 | them during infinite ages.~Cleinias. How so?~Athenian. Why, 307 3 | men were citizens of them?~Cleinias. Hardly.~Athenian. But are 308 3 | be vast and incalculable?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And 309 3 | improving or declining?~Cleinias. To be sure.~Athenian. Let 310 3 | of forms of government.~Cleinias. Very good. You shall endeavour 311 3 | truth in ancient traditions?~Cleinias. What traditions?~Athenian. 312 3 | the survival of a remnant?~Cleinias. Every one is disposed to 313 3 | caused by the famous deluge.~Cleinias. What are we to observe 314 3 | on the tops of mountains.~Cleinias. Clearly.~Athenian. Such 315 3 | contrive against one another.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. Let 316 3 | destroyed at that time.~Cleinias. Very good.~Athenian. Would 317 3 | have utterly disappeared?~Cleinias. Why, yes, my friend; and 318 3 | Athenian. Have you forgotten, Cleinias, the name of a friend who 319 3 | is really of yesterday?~Cleinias. I suppose that you mean 320 3 | old Hesiod only preached.~Cleinias. Yes, according to our tradition.~ 321 3 | shepherds who tended them?~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. And of 322 3 | any recollection at all?~Cleinias. None whatever.~Athenian. 323 3 | a great deal of virtue?~Cleinias. What do you mean?~Athenian. 324 3 | whether of virtue or of vice?~Cleinias. I understand your meaning, 325 3 | to be what the world is.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. Doubtless 326 3 | very long period of time.~Cleinias. A highly probable supposition.~ 327 3 | heights into the plain.~Cleinias. Of course.~Athenian. The 328 3 | metallurgy had again revived.~Cleinias. There could not have been.~ 329 3 | would this be attained?~Cleinias. Clearly, not for many generations.~ 330 3 | the like would disappear.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Faction 331 3 | days, and for many reasons.~Cleinias. How would that be?~Athenian. 332 3 | we have described them.~Cleinias. That quite accords with 333 3 | been already explained.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. I 334 3 | who was their lawgiver.~Cleinias. And thus far what you have 335 3 | ancestors, as they are called.~Cleinias. Probably.~Athenian. But 336 3 | themselves about one another.~Cleinias. That seems to be a charming 337 3 | government sometimes arise.~Cleinias. We may.~Athenian. And were 338 3 | sovereignties is the most just?~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. After 339 3 | large and common habitation.~Cleinias. Yes; at least we may suppose 340 3 | which would probably happen.~Cleinias. What?~Athenian. When these 341 3 | their own peculiar laws.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And 342 3 | laws of others not so well.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Then now 343 3 | beginnings of legislation.~Cleinias. Exactly.~Athenian. The 344 3 | government they will live.~Cleinias. Yes, that would be the 345 3 | polities and cities concur.~Cleinias. What is that?~Athenian. 346 3 | Graces, they attain truth.~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. Then now 347 3 | design:—Shall we do so?~Cleinias. By all means.~Athenian. 348 3 | rivers descending from Ida.~Cleinias. Such is the tradition.~ 349 3 | very high hills, either.~Cleinias. There must have been a 350 3 | would begin to be inhabited.~Cleinias. Doubtless.~Athenian. Those 351 3 | to be afraid of the sea.~Cleinias. Clearly.~Athenian. The 352 3 | years, and overthrew Troy.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. And during 353 3 | state happy, O Megillus and Cleinias, we may now begin again, 354 3 | course of the argument.~Cleinias. Pray go on, Stranger;—compliments 355 3 | disapproval.~Megillus. Excellent, Cleinias; let us do as you say.~Cleinias. 356 3 | Cleinias; let us do as you say.~Cleinias. By all means, if Heaven 357 3 | the utmost of his power.~Cleinias. That is evident.~Athenian. 358 3 | say; for my opinion is—~Cleinias. What?~Athenian. That the 359 3 | ignorance of handicraftsmen.~Cleinias. Yes, my friend, we understand 360 3 | saying, be laid down by us.~Cleinias. Let it be so laid down.~ 361 3 | and subjects in states?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And 362 3 | rule over their offspring?~Cleinias. There is.~Athenian. Next 363 3 | rule and the younger obey?~Cleinias. To be sure.~Athenian. And, 364 3 | and their masters rule?~Cleinias. Of course.~Athenian. Fifthly, 365 3 | and the weaker be ruled?~Cleinias. That is a rule not to be 366 3 | not a rule of compulsion.~Cleinias. Most true.~Athenian. There 367 3 | affirm to be quite just.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. “Then 368 3 | the immoderate or worse.”~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And 369 3 | than when among peoples?~Cleinias. The probability is that 370 3 | dissonance and harsh discord.~Cleinias. Very likely.~Athenian. 371 3 | a power to be despised.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. There was 372 3 | was small credit to us, Cleinias, in defeating them; and 373 3 | and live miserably. These, Cleinias and Megillus, are the reproaches 374 3 | ought not to disturb us.~Cleinias. Let us resume the argument 375 3 | is not made up of both.~Cleinias. Impossible.~Athenian. Neither 376 3 | less. Shall I tell you why?~Cleinias. By all means, if it will 377 3 | communion of mind among them.~Cleinias. That certainly appears 378 3 | Shall I try to divine?~Cleinias. The enquiry, no doubt, 379 3 | order of his household.~Cleinias. What makes you say so?~ 380 3 | how they brought them up.~Cleinias. A splendid education truly!~ 381 3 | time to look after them.~Cleinias. What would you expect?~ 382 3 | despised the folly of Cambyses.~Cleinias. So runs the tale, and such 383 3 | Darius and the seven chiefs.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Let us 384 3 | And I would wish you and Cleinias to consider whether my words 385 3 | life. And now, Megillus and Cleinias, how can we put to the proof 386 3 | the value of our words?~Cleinias. Stranger, I think that 387 3 | contemplation.~Athenian. Good news, Cleinias; if Megillus has no objection, 388 3 | my power to please you.~Cleinias. Thank you.~Megillus. And 389 3 | Megillus. And so will I.~Cleinias. Excellent; and now let 390 4 | whether maritime or inland.~Cleinias. I should imagine, Stranger, 391 4 | harbours on the seaboard?~Cleinias. Excellent harbours, Stranger; 392 4 | in need of importations?~Cleinias. Hardly in need of anything.~ 393 4 | any neighbouring State?~Cleinias. None whatever, and that 394 4 | hill, and plain, and wood?~Cleinias. Like the rest of Crete 395 4 | is more rock than plain?~Cleinias. Exactly.~Athenian. Then 396 4 | the previous discussion.~Cleinias. I remember, and am of opinion 397 4 | timber for ship–building?~Cleinias. There is no fir of any 398 4 | also natural advantages.~Cleinias. Why so?~Athenian. Because 399 4 | in what is mischievous.~Cleinias. How does that bear upon 400 4 | cannot justly award honour?~Cleinias. It is hardly possible, 401 4 | which has been made already.~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. Then we 402 4 | and legislation of states.~Cleinias. The best by far.~Athenian. 403 4 | the present enterprise?~Cleinias. They will come from all 404 4 | legislation and colonization.~Cleinias. No doubt; but I should 405 4 | equally to all human things?~Cleinias. To what are you referring?~ 406 4 | equal truth of all of them.~Cleinias. What is it?~Athenian. That 407 4 | s art. You would agree?~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. And does 408 4 | time appear on the scene?~Cleinias. Most true.~Athenian. In 409 4 | require to exercise his art?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And 410 4 | special prayer, would do so?~Cleinias. Of course.~Athenian. And 411 4 | legislator would do likewise?~Cleinias. I believe that he would.~ 412 4 | Shall I give his answer?~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. He will 413 4 | to be any good in them.”~Cleinias. I suppose, Megillus, that 414 4 | temperance?~Athenian. Yes, Cleinias, temperance in the vulgar 415 4 | must understand my meaning.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Then 416 4 | polity than by a tyranny.~Cleinias. By what possible arguments, 417 4 | no difficulty in seeing, Cleinias, what is in accordance with 418 4 | with the order of nature?~Cleinias. You would assume, as you 419 4 | diminution of the number.~Cleinias. You mean to say, I suppose, 420 4 | easiest and most rapid.~Cleinias. How? I do not understand.~ 421 4 | which is under a tyranny?~Cleinias. No, and I cannot say that 422 4 | which I am now speaking.~Cleinias. What do you mean?~Athenian. 423 4 | degrading those who disobey.~Cleinias. But how can we imagine 424 4 | rather all blessings follow.~Cleinias. Of what are you speaking?~ 425 4 | granting our supposition.~Cleinias. How do you mean?~Athenian. 426 4 | suitable to your state.~Cleinias. Let us proceed without 427 4 | the State and the laws!~Cleinias. May he come!~Athenian. 428 4 | going to give the city?~Cleinias. Tell us what you mean a 429 4 | first, since I am the elder?~Cleinias. Perhaps you should.~Megillus. 430 4 | government the Spartan is.~Cleinias. I am in the same difficulty, 431 4 | who rules over wise men.~Cleinias. And who is this God?~Athenian. 432 4 | your question: shall I?~Cleinias. By all means.~Athenian. 433 4 | existing states is a copy.~Cleinias. It will be very necessary 434 4 | introduced the subject.~Cleinias. Most appropriately; and 435 4 | salvation is hopeless. And now, Cleinias, we have to consider whether 436 4 | accept this tale of mine.~Cleinias. Certainly we will.~Athenian. 437 4 | natural definition of justice.~Cleinias. How?~Athenian. Justice 438 4 | interest of the stronger.~Cleinias. Speak plainer.~Athenian. 439 4 | authority in any state?”~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. “Well,” 440 4 | principal object of their laws?”~Cleinias. How can they have any other?~ 441 4 | who calls the laws just?”~Cleinias. Naturally.~Athenian. “This, 442 4 | in which justice exists.”~Cleinias. Certainly, if they are 443 4 | which we were referring.~Cleinias. Which do you mean?~Athenian. 444 4 | natural and justified it.~Cleinias. Yes; I remember.~Athenian. 445 4 | without number in states—~Cleinias. What thing?~Athenian. That 446 4 | which the Gods can confer.~Cleinias. Truly, Stranger, you see 447 4 | when he is old keenest.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And 448 4 | make our speech to them?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. “Friends,” 449 4 | think, or not do or think?~Cleinias. Every man ought to make 450 4 | can guarantee one thing.~Cleinias. What is that?~Athenian. 451 4 | legislator in all his laws.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. The 452 4 | before, it is then easy.~Cleinias. Yes; and he certainly speaks 453 4 | discourse has had upon me.~Cleinias. Proceed.~Athenian. Suppose 454 4 | do, you can surely tell.”~Cleinias. Of course he can.~Athenian. “ 455 4 | the hurt of the state.”~Cleinias. That is true.~Athenian. 456 4 | on behalf of the poets?~Cleinias. What answer shall we make 457 4 | language that can become law.~Cleinias. Certainly not.~Athenian. 458 4 | are also styled doctors.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And 459 4 | two classes of doctors?~Cleinias. To be sure.~Athenian. And 460 4 | the ruder and inferior?~Cleinias. I should say, Stranger, 461 4 | single method in legislation?~Cleinias. Certainly I should.~Athenian. 462 4 | for states about births?~Cleinias. He will.~Athenian. In all 463 4 | connection of marriage?~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And, 464 4 | determined in every state?~Cleinias. Quite so.~Athenian. Then 465 4 | choose. But I think that Cleinias is the person to be consulted, 466 4 | going to use these laws.~Cleinias. Thank you, Megillus.~Athenian. 467 4 | regarded in our existing laws.~Cleinias. What is it?~Athenian. A 468 4 | the case already given.~Cleinias. The lawgiver, if he asks 469 4 | think that you are right, Cleinias, in affirming that all laws 470 4 | instance, of the lawgiver.~Cleinias. That I think is most true. 471 4 | subject into the light of day?~Cleinias. Exactly.~Athenian. After 472 4 | which follow next in order.~Cleinias. Very good.~ 473 5 | will leave the choice to Cleinias now, or to any one else 474 5 | observe, O Megillus and Cleinias, that there is a difference 475 5 | accordingly. And this is what you, Cleinias, must do, and to matters 476 5 | colonize a new country.~Cleinias. Your words, Athenian Stranger, 477 6 | appointment of magistracies.~Cleinias. Very good.~Athenian. In 478 6 | about the election of them.~Cleinias. What have you got to say?~ 479 6 | evil will accrue from them.~Cleinias. Of course.~Athenian. Then 480 6 | the choice of magistrates?~Cleinias. Impossible.~Athenian. The 481 6 | is such a hideous thing.~Cleinias. Excellent, Stranger.~Athenian. 482 6 | will be as good as my word.~Cleinias. Let us by all means do 483 6 | age will only permit us.~Cleinias. But God will be gracious.~ 484 6 | consider further point.~Cleinias. What is it?~Athenian. Let 485 6 | creation this our city is.~Cleinias. What had you in your mind 486 6 | man need not be very wise, Cleinias, in order to see that no 487 6 | trained not being permanent.~Cleinias. A reasonable supposition.~ 488 6 | difficulty; for I maintain, Cleinias, that the Cnosians, above 489 6 | are of less importance.~Cleinias. What method can we devise 490 6 | violence in order to make you.~Cleinias. But why, Stranger, do not 491 6 | our new city?~Athenian. O, Cleinias, Athens is proud, and Sparta 492 6 | number of votes. But who, Cleinias and Megillus, will order 493 6 | praised by any one enough.~Cleinias. That is very true.~Athenian. 494 6 | necessary and expedient.~Cleinias. What is it?~Athenian. I 495 6 | and temples, and the like?~Cleinias. To be sure there ought.~ 496 6 | the work of legislation.~Cleinias. I like what you have said, 497 6 | pastime has gone off well.~Cleinias. You mean, I suppose, their 498 6 | agreed about a certain thing.~Cleinias. About what thing?~Athenian. 499 6 | brighter and more beautiful.~Cleinias. I know something of these 500 6 | will last but a short time?~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. And is