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| Alphabetical [« »] cleave 1 cleaving 1 cleft 1 cleinias 972 cleito 4 cleitophon 11 clements 2 | Frequency [« »] 987 either 983 just 974 truth 972 cleinias 972 does 958 mean 952 both | Plato Partial collection IntraText - Concordances cleinias |
Cratylus
Part
1 Intro| transitions to good and evil?~CLEINIAS: What do you mean?~ATHENIAN
2 Intro| them during infinite ages.~CLEINIAS: How so?~ATHENIAN STRANGER:
3 Intro| men were citizens of them?~CLEINIAS: Hardly.~ATHENIAN STRANGER:
4 Intro| be vast and incalculable?~CLEINIAS: No doubt.~ATHENIAN STRANGER:
Euthydemus
Part
5 Intro| interested in the youth Cleinias, the grandson of the great
6 Intro| two brothers, the youth Cleinias, who is watched by the eager
7 Intro| brothers shall question Cleinias. ‘Cleinias,’ says Euthydemus, ‘
8 Intro| shall question Cleinias. ‘Cleinias,’ says Euthydemus, ‘who
9 Intro| is afraid that the youth Cleinias may be discouraged at these
10 Intro| He proceeds to question Cleinias. The result of the investigation
11 Intro| wisdom be taught? ‘Yes,’ says Cleinias. The ingenuousness of the
12 Intro| wisdom.’ ‘That I will,’ says Cleinias.~After Socrates has given
13 Intro| another sort.~‘You want Cleinias to be wise?’ ‘Yes.’ ‘And
14 Intro| Ctesippus, the lover of Cleinias, interposes in great excitement,
15 Intro| renews the conversation with Cleinias. The two Sophists are like
16 Intro| arrived at the conclusion that Cleinias must become a philosopher.
17 Intro| acquires. The two enquirers, Cleinias and Socrates, are described
18 Intro| what?’ At length in despair Cleinias and Socrates turn to the ‘
19 Intro| to the great delight of Cleinias, who is rebuked by Socrates
20 Intro| they will receive him and Cleinias among their disciples.~Crito
21 Intro| habits. There is the youth Cleinias, the grandson of Alcibiades,
22 Intro| invented the answers of Cleinias (compare Phaedrus). The
23 Intro| Ctesippus, who is the lover of Cleinias, has been already introduced
24 Intro| declaration of the youth Cleinias; and (4) not yet to have
25 Text | of the Dialogue. Crito, Cleinias, Euthydemus, Dionysodorus,
26 Text | side. In the middle was Cleinias the young son of Axiochus,
27 Text | two or three turns when Cleinias entered, who, as you truly
28 Text | having the wildness of youth. Cleinias saw me from the entrance
29 Text | time; and then I said to Cleinias: Here are two wise men,
30 Text | Euthydemus and Dionysodorus, Cleinias, wise not in a small but
31 Text | and there is the youth Cleinias, and Ctesippus: and here
32 Text | pointing to the lovers of Cleinias, who were beginning to gather
33 Text | sitting at some distance from Cleinias; and when Euthydemus leaned
34 Text | was prevented from seeing Cleinias, who was between us; and
35 Text | all the other admirers of Cleinias, as well as the disciples
36 Text | truly good. His name is Cleinias, and he is the son of Axiochus,
37 Text | began nearly as follows: O Cleinias, are those who learn the
38 Text | disconcerted, said: Take courage, Cleinias, and answer like a man whichever
39 Text | While he was speaking to me, Cleinias gave his answer: and therefore
40 Text | learn, and not the wise, Cleinias, as you imagine.~At these
41 Text | in hand, and said: Yes, Cleinias; and when the grammar-master
42 Text | dictation?~The wise, replied Cleinias.~Then after all the wise
43 Text | your disciples.~Meanwhile Cleinias had answered Euthydemus
44 Text | letters learns?~Nay, said Cleinias; but I do learn.~Then, said
45 Text | another throw at the youth. Cleinias, he said, Euthydemus is
46 Text | of that which one learns?~Cleinias assented.~And knowing is
47 Text | who have?~He agreed.~Then, Cleinias, he said, those who do not
48 Text | You must not be surprised, Cleinias, at the singularity of their
49 Text | happiness?~There is no one, said Cleinias, who does not.~Well, then,
50 Text | verily and indeed think, Cleinias, that we shall be more right
51 Text | say?~They are goods, said Cleinias.~Very well, I said; and
52 Text | think that we have, said Cleinias.~Upon recollection, I said,
53 Text | that? he asked.~Fortune, Cleinias, I replied; which all, even
54 Text | to him: Do you not know, Cleinias, that flute-players are
55 Text | having them?~True.~Well, Cleinias, but if you have the use
56 Text | allowed by us.~Then, I said, Cleinias, the sum of the matter appears
57 Text | not at all dishonourable, Cleinias; nor is any one to be blamed
58 Text | are right.~Yes, I said, Cleinias, if only wisdom can be taught,
59 Text | so you say that you wish Cleinias to become wise?~Undoubtedly.~
60 Text | to repeat, as that I wish Cleinias to perish?~Euthydemus replied:
61 Text | has no existence, or do to Cleinias that which is not and is
62 Text | repeat what I said before to Cleinias—that you do not understand
63 Text | also may be serious. You, Cleinias, I said, shall remind me
64 Text | should say, no, rejoined Cleinias.~And why should you say
65 Text | very extraordinary men, Cleinias, and their art is lofty
66 Text | what is your notion? asked Cleinias.~I think that the art of
67 Text | said, fairest and wisest Cleinias. And is this true?~Certainly,
68 Text | Socrates.~SOCRATES: And Cleinias and I had arrived at the
69 Text | upon his mettle because Cleinias was present).~When you are
70 Text | with him. This delighted Cleinias, whose laughter made Ctesippus
71 Text | time. Why do you laugh, Cleinias, I said, at such solemn
72 Text | request that you will receive Cleinias and me among your pupils.~
The First Alcibiades
Part
73 Intro| practises upon the youthful Cleinias in the Euthydemus; and he
74 Text | surprised to find, O son of Cleinias, that I, who am your first
75 Text | to tell you, sweet son of Cleinias and Dinomache. The explanation
76 Text | Coronea, at which your father Cleinias met his end, the question
77 Text | Alcibiades, the fair son of Cleinias, not understanding about
78 Text | did he make your brother, Cleinias, wise?~ALCIBIADES: Cleinias
79 Text | Cleinias, wise?~ALCIBIADES: Cleinias is a madman; there is no
80 Text | of him.~SOCRATES: But if Cleinias is a madman and the two
81 Text | of Alcibiades the son of Cleinias; there neither is nor ever
Gorgias
Part
82 Text | of Alcibiades, the son of Cleinias, and of philosophy; and
83 Text | other love, for the son of Cleinias says one thing to-day and
Laws
Book
84 1 | DIALOGUE: An ATHENIAN STRANGER; CLEINIAS, a Cretan; MEGILLUS, a Lacedaemonian~
85 1 | the author of your laws?~Cleinias. A God, Stranger; in very
86 1 | Certainly.~Athenian. And do you, Cleinias, believe, as Homer tells,
87 1 | make laws for your cities?~Cleinias. Yes, that is our tradition;
88 1 | the time by conversation.~Cleinias. Yes, Stranger, and if we
89 1 | converse.~Athenian. Very good.~Cleinias. Very good, indeed; and
90 1 | exercises, and wear arms.~Cleinias. I think, Stranger, that
91 1 | this to be your meaning?~Cleinias. Certainly; and our Lacedaemonian
92 1 | states, or also to villages?~Cleinias. To both alike.~Athenian.
93 1 | Athenian. The case is the same?~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. And in the
94 1 | individual against individual?~Cleinias. The same.~Athenian. And
95 1 | enemy:—what shall we say?~Cleinias. O Athenian Stranger—inhabitant
96 1 | sir, what do you mean?)—~Cleinias. ... Moreover, there is
97 1 | village, and the state?~Cleinias. You mean that in each of
98 1 | to self?~Athenian. Yes.~Cleinias. You are quite right in
99 1 | superior and therefore good.~Cleinias. Your remark, Stranger,
100 1 | just may be in a minority.~Cleinias. Very possibly.~Athenian.
101 1 | right and wrong in laws.~Cleinias. What you say, Stranger,
102 1 | of whom we were speaking?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Now,
103 1 | able to keep them friends.~Cleinias. The last would be by far
104 1 | would be the reverse of war.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And
105 1 | of as soon as possible?~Cleinias. He would have the latter
106 1 | attention to foreign enemies?~Cleinias. Every one would desire
107 1 | desire of the legislator?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And
108 1 | for the sake of the best?~Cleinias. To be sure.~Athenian. But
109 1 | war for the sake of peace.~Cleinias. I suppose that there is
110 1 | them.~Megillus. Very true.~Cleinias. And they have found their
111 1 | and I and Megillus and Cleinias of Cnosus do, as I believe,
112 1 | milder form of warfare.~Cleinias. Certainly, far milder.~
113 1 | and he must admit this.~Cleinias. Evidently.~Athenian. They
114 1 | to be only fourth rate.~Cleinias. Stranger, we are degrading
115 1 | mainly with a view to war.~Cleinias. What ought we to say then?~
116 1 | you expound the matter?~Cleinias. By all means.~Athenian.
117 1 | mankind like ourselves.~Cleinias. How shall we proceed, Stranger?~
118 1 | themselves:—Were you not, Cleinias?~Cleinias. I was.~Athenian.
119 1 | Were you not, Cleinias?~Cleinias. I was.~Athenian. Now, which
120 1 | by pleasure or by pain?~Cleinias. I should say the man who
121 1 | which come from the right?~Cleinias. Able to meet both, I should
122 1 | which I might mention.~Cleinias. Neither can I show anything
123 1 | kindly what another says.~Cleinias. You are quite right, Athenian
124 1 | Athenian. At our time of life, Cleinias, there should be no feeling
125 1 | no feeling of irritation.~Cleinias. Certainly not.~Athenian.
126 1 | no young man is present.~Cleinias. Exactly so, Stranger; and
127 1 | matters now that we are alone.~Cleinias. True. And therefore you
128 1 | you assent to my words?~Cleinias. On first hearing, what
129 1 | simple.~Athenian. Suppose, Cleinias and Megillus, that we consider
130 1 | they were utterly wrong.~Cleinias. What do you mean, Stranger,
131 1 | there ought to be a leader?~Cleinias. Certainly I should.~Athenian.
132 1 | ought to be a brave man?~Cleinias. We were.~Athenian. The
133 1 | to be disturbed by fears?~Cleinias. That again is true.~Athenian.
134 1 | by all means appoint him?~Cleinias. Assuredly.~Athenian. Now,
135 1 | friend in time of peace.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. And that
136 1 | drunkenness, is apt to be unquiet.~Cleinias. Certainly; the reverse
137 1 | soldiers will require a ruler?~Cleinias. To be sure; no men more
138 1 | them with a quiet ruler?~Cleinias. Of course.~Athenian. And
139 1 | his use of the occasion.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. Must
140 1 | from doing some great evil.~Cleinias. It will be by a singular
141 1 | which he has the direction?~Cleinias. The last remark is very
142 1 | education is never suicidal.~Cleinias. You seem to imply, my friend,
143 1 | Athenian. Certainly I do.~Cleinias. And can you show that what
144 1 | laws and constitutions.~Cleinias. Your opinion, Stranger,
145 1 | whatever you have to say.~Cleinias. Yes, Stranger; and when
146 1 | onwards to the God Dionysus.~Cleinias. Let us proceed, if you
147 1 | whether they satisfy you?~Cleinias. Let us hear.~Athenian.
148 1 | agree with me thus far?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Then
149 1 | every man while he lives.~Cleinias. Very true; and we entirely
150 1 | and bad men who are not.~Cleinias. You are quite right.~Athenian.
151 1 | which I will offer you.~Cleinias. Proceed.~Athenian. Do we
152 1 | of ourselves to be one?~Cleinias. We do.~Athenian. And each
153 1 | pleasure, and the other pain.~Cleinias. Exactly.~Athenian. Also
154 1 | the State, is called Law.~Cleinias. I am hardly able to follow
155 1 | words than were necessary.~Cleinias. Perhaps, however, the theme
156 1 | bears on our present object.~Cleinias. Proceed.~Athenian. Suppose
157 1 | will be the effect on him?~Cleinias. Having what in view do
158 1 | and passions and loves?~Cleinias. Very greatly.~Athenian.
159 1 | becomes saturated with drink?~Cleinias. Yes, they entirely desert
160 1 | was when a young child?~Cleinias. He does.~Athenian. Then
161 1 | least control over himself?~Cleinias. The least.~Athenian. And
162 1 | a most wretched plight?~Cleinias. Most wretched.~Athenian.
163 1 | becomes a second time a child?~Cleinias. Well said, Stranger.~Athenian.
164 1 | all we can to avoid it?~Cleinias. I suppose that there is;
165 1 | are anxious to hear me.~Cleinias. To sure we are, if only
166 1 | you speaking of the soul?~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. And what
167 1 | ugliness, decrepitude?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Yet
168 1 | to a state of weakness?~Cleinias. Yes, all that is well known.~
169 1 | the subsequent benefit?~Cleinias. Very good.~Athenian. And
170 1 | way of other practices?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And
171 1 | same good effect follows?~Cleinias. To be sure.~Athenian. If
172 1 | no accompaniment of pain.~Cleinias. True; but I hardly think
173 1 | which are very different?~Cleinias. What are they?~Athenian.
174 1 | the fear of expected evil.~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. And there
175 1 | and all men term shame.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. These
176 1 | numerous sort of pleasures.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And
177 1 | individuals and to states.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Does not
178 1 | disgrace before friends.~Cleinias. There are.~Athenian. Then
179 1 | has now been determined.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And
180 1 | to face with many fears.~Cleinias. Clearly.~Athenian. And
181 1 | be perfectly temperate?~Cleinias. A most unlikely supposition.~
182 1 | influence of the draught.~Cleinias. But has such a draught,
183 1 | cowardice of your citizens?”~Cleinias. “I should,” will be the
184 1 | danger than the reverse?”~Cleinias. In that proposition every
185 1 | reason for abstaining?”~Cleinias. He would be certain, Stranger,
186 1 | overcome by the potion.~Cleinias. Yes, Stranger, in that
187 1 | and indiscreet boasting?~Cleinias. I suppose that he will
188 1 | ready to do or say anything.~Cleinias. I think that every one
189 1 | secondly, the greatest fear—~Cleinias. Which you said to be characteristic
190 1 | trained among opposites.~Cleinias. That is probably the case.~
191 1 | do anything that is base.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Are not
192 1 | speedier than any other.~Cleinias. That is certainly true.~
193 1 | not mistaken, is politics.~Cleinias. Exactly so.~
194 2 | may be entangled in error.~Cleinias. Proceed.~Athenian. Let
195 2 | of convivial intercourse.~Cleinias. You talk rather grandly.~
196 2 | rightly called education.~Cleinias. I think, Stranger, that
197 2 | Muses? What do you say?~Cleinias. I assent.~Athenian. And
198 2 | who has been well trained?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And
199 2 | two parts, dance and song?~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Then he
200 2 | to sing and dance well?~Cleinias. I suppose that he will.~
201 2 | see; what are we saying?~Cleinias. What?~Athenian. He sings
202 2 | and dances what is good?~Cleinias. Let us make the addition.~
203 2 | offended at what is evil?~Cleinias. There is a great difference,
204 2 | whether there is any or not.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Let us
205 2 | whether Hellenic or barbarian.~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. And what
206 2 | utterance to the same sounds?~Cleinias. How can they, when the
207 2 | are the reverse of good.~Cleinias. Your suggestion is excellent;
208 2 | with every sort of dance?~Cleinias. Far otherwise.~Athenian.
209 2 | account of the delusion.~Cleinias. What?~Athenian. The adaptation
210 2 | secret pleasure in them.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And
211 2 | opposite sort of pleasure?~Cleinias. I think that there is.~
212 2 | destiny ever make us undergo?~Cleinias. I know of none.~Athenian.
213 2 | reference to virtue or vice?~Cleinias. That is surely quite unreasonable,
214 2 | the exception of Egypt.~Cleinias. And what are the laws about
215 2 | with just the same skill.~Cleinias. How extraordinary!~Athenian.
216 2 | being corrupted in Egypt.~Cleinias. Your arguments seem to
217 2 | prosper when we rejoice?~Cleinias. Exactly.~Athenian. And
218 2 | are unable to be still?~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Our young
219 2 | the memory of our youth.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. Is
220 2 | of speaking or of acting?~Cleinias. Possibly.~Athenian. But,
221 2 | of such a proclamation?~Cleinias. In what respect?~Athenian.
222 2 | ought to be the victor?~Cleinias. I do not see how any one
223 2 | which you deem so absurd?~Cleinias. By all means.~Athenian.
224 2 | decide for the puppet show.~Cleinias. Of course.~Athenian. The
225 2 | general, will favour tragedy.~Cleinias. Very likely.~Athenian.
226 2 | victor?—that is the question.~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. Clearly
227 2 | exist anywhere in the world.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Thus
228 2 | this? Shall I tell you?~Cleinias. What?~Athenian. The inference
229 2 | and in every way good men.~Cleinias. But do you really imagine,
230 2 | same.~Athenian. Most true, Cleinias; and I daresay that I may
231 2 | among the other Hellenes?~Cleinias. Certainly they are.~Athenian.
232 2 | present state of things?~Cleinias. A very great improvement,
233 2 | and I agreed about this?~Cleinias. I think that we partly
234 2 | miserable rather than happy.~Cleinias. That is quite true.~Athenian.
235 2 | will surely grant so much?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And
236 2 | Athenian. And an evil life too?~Cleinias. I am not equally disposed
237 2 | to his own disadvantage?~Cleinias. How can I possibly say
238 2 | are of two. To me, dear Cleinias, the truth of what I am
239 2 | pleasant, but evil and base?~Cleinias. Impossible.~Athenian. The
240 2 | appearance of both of them.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. And which
241 2 | inferior or of the better soul?~Cleinias. Surely, that of the better
242 2 | the just and holy life?~Cleinias. That seems to be implied
243 2 | compulsion but voluntarily.~Cleinias. Truth, Stranger, is a noble
244 2 | innumerable other tales.~Cleinias. What is that story?~Athenian.
245 2 | argue on the other side.~Cleinias. I do not see that any argument
246 2 | we might address to them.~Cleinias. I assent to what you say.~
247 2 | the voice of an oracle.~Cleinias. Who are those who compose
248 2 | said with a view to them.~Cleinias. Will you try to be a little
249 2 | remember, was the third.~Cleinias. I quite remember.~Athenian.
250 2 | which is that of Dionysus.~Cleinias. How is that arranged? There
251 2 | reason for the proposal.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Are
252 2 | Are we agreed thus far?~Cleinias. About what?~Athenian. That
253 2 | may never weary of them?~Cleinias. Every one will agree.~Athenian.
254 2 | the most useful of songs?~Cleinias. But, says the argument,
255 2 | decorum? Will this be the way?~Cleinias. What?~Athenian. When a
256 2 | grows;—is not this true?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Well,
257 2 | very unwilling to exhibit.~Cleinias. No doubt.~Athenian. How,
258 2 | to chant, and to enchant?~Cleinias. He will be far more ready.~
259 2 | to join with us in song.~Cleinias. None at all.~Athenian.
260 2 | be one suitable to them.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And
261 2 | they sing a choric strain?~Cleinias. Truly, Stranger, we of
262 2 | in individuals or states.~Cleinias. Once more, Stranger, I
263 2 | and want to have the best.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. When
264 2 | is their true rightness.~Cleinias. Just so.~Athenian. Thus,
265 2 | which the truth gives to it.~Cleinias. Exactly.~Athenian. And
266 2 | be said to have a charm?~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. But equal
267 2 | them truth or rightness.~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. Then that
268 2 | other qualities are absent.~Cleinias. You are speaking of harmless
269 2 | degree worth speaking of.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. Then,
270 2 | and by no other whatever.~Cleinias. Quite true.~Athenian. Do
271 2 | representative and imitative?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Then,
272 2 | an imitation of the good.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And
273 2 | to quantity and quality.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And
274 2 | actors all agree in this?~Cleinias. They will.~Athenian. Surely
275 2 | intention is true or false.~Cleinias. Certainly not.~Athenian.
276 2 | the matter in another way.~Cleinias. How?~Athenian. There are
277 2 | likenesses of objects of sight?~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. And can
278 2 | which has been imitated?~Cleinias. Impossible.~Athenian. But
279 2 | respect deficient in beauty?~Cleinias. If this were not required,
280 2 | and melodies and rhythms?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Then
281 2 | poet has assigned to it?~Cleinias. Clearly they cannot.~Athenian.
282 2 | and wrong when unsuitable.~Cleinias. That is most certain.~Athenian.
283 2 | that the thing is right?~Cleinias. Impossible.~Athenian. Then
284 2 | will certainly be the case.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Every
285 2 | himself and all mankind.~Cleinias. Quite true.~Athenian. Were
286 2 | called reverence and shame?~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. And the
287 2 | leaders, or even greater.~Cleinias. Right.~Athenian. If, then,
288 2 | leaders of the drunken.~Cleinias. I think so too, if drinking
289 2 | misunderstanding what is said.~Cleinias. To what do you refer?~Athenian.
290 2 | of music and gymnastic.~Cleinias. To be sure, I remember.~
291 2 | we had to thank for them?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. The
292 2 | and strength in the body.~Cleinias. That, Stranger, is precisely
293 2 | consideration of the other half?~Cleinias. What is the other half,
294 2 | has to do with the voice.~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. The movement
295 2 | the movement of the voice.~Cleinias. Most true.~Athenian. And
296 2 | ventured to term music.~Cleinias. We were right.~Athenian.
297 2 | may be called gymnastic.~Cleinias. Exactly.~Athenian. Music,
298 2 | not? What would you like?~Cleinias. My good friend, when you
299 2 | proceed with gymnastic.~Cleinias. You quite understand me;
300 2 | familiar than with music.~Cleinias. There will not.~Athenian.
301 2 | united formed the choral art?~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And
302 2 | another to be discussed?~Cleinias. Exactly.~Athenian. I have
303 2 | will allow me to do so.~Cleinias. What more have you to say?~
304 2 | about wine, if you agree.~Cleinias. Excellent: we agree.~
305 3 | transitions to good or evil?~Cleinias. What do you mean?~Athenian.
306 3 | them during infinite ages.~Cleinias. How so?~Athenian. Why,
307 3 | men were citizens of them?~Cleinias. Hardly.~Athenian. But are
308 3 | be vast and incalculable?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And
309 3 | improving or declining?~Cleinias. To be sure.~Athenian. Let
310 3 | of forms of government.~Cleinias. Very good. You shall endeavour
311 3 | truth in ancient traditions?~Cleinias. What traditions?~Athenian.
312 3 | the survival of a remnant?~Cleinias. Every one is disposed to
313 3 | caused by the famous deluge.~Cleinias. What are we to observe
314 3 | on the tops of mountains.~Cleinias. Clearly.~Athenian. Such
315 3 | contrive against one another.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. Let
316 3 | destroyed at that time.~Cleinias. Very good.~Athenian. Would
317 3 | have utterly disappeared?~Cleinias. Why, yes, my friend; and
318 3 | Athenian. Have you forgotten, Cleinias, the name of a friend who
319 3 | is really of yesterday?~Cleinias. I suppose that you mean
320 3 | old Hesiod only preached.~Cleinias. Yes, according to our tradition.~
321 3 | shepherds who tended them?~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. And of
322 3 | any recollection at all?~Cleinias. None whatever.~Athenian.
323 3 | a great deal of virtue?~Cleinias. What do you mean?~Athenian.
324 3 | whether of virtue or of vice?~Cleinias. I understand your meaning,
325 3 | to be what the world is.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. Doubtless
326 3 | very long period of time.~Cleinias. A highly probable supposition.~
327 3 | heights into the plain.~Cleinias. Of course.~Athenian. The
328 3 | metallurgy had again revived.~Cleinias. There could not have been.~
329 3 | would this be attained?~Cleinias. Clearly, not for many generations.~
330 3 | the like would disappear.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Faction
331 3 | days, and for many reasons.~Cleinias. How would that be?~Athenian.
332 3 | we have described them.~Cleinias. That quite accords with
333 3 | been already explained.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. I
334 3 | who was their lawgiver.~Cleinias. And thus far what you have
335 3 | ancestors, as they are called.~Cleinias. Probably.~Athenian. But
336 3 | themselves about one another.~Cleinias. That seems to be a charming
337 3 | government sometimes arise.~Cleinias. We may.~Athenian. And were
338 3 | sovereignties is the most just?~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. After
339 3 | large and common habitation.~Cleinias. Yes; at least we may suppose
340 3 | which would probably happen.~Cleinias. What?~Athenian. When these
341 3 | their own peculiar laws.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And
342 3 | laws of others not so well.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Then now
343 3 | beginnings of legislation.~Cleinias. Exactly.~Athenian. The
344 3 | government they will live.~Cleinias. Yes, that would be the
345 3 | polities and cities concur.~Cleinias. What is that?~Athenian.
346 3 | Graces, they attain truth.~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. Then now
347 3 | design:—Shall we do so?~Cleinias. By all means.~Athenian.
348 3 | rivers descending from Ida.~Cleinias. Such is the tradition.~
349 3 | very high hills, either.~Cleinias. There must have been a
350 3 | would begin to be inhabited.~Cleinias. Doubtless.~Athenian. Those
351 3 | to be afraid of the sea.~Cleinias. Clearly.~Athenian. The
352 3 | years, and overthrew Troy.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. And during
353 3 | state happy, O Megillus and Cleinias, we may now begin again,
354 3 | course of the argument.~Cleinias. Pray go on, Stranger;—compliments
355 3 | disapproval.~Megillus. Excellent, Cleinias; let us do as you say.~Cleinias.
356 3 | Cleinias; let us do as you say.~Cleinias. By all means, if Heaven
357 3 | the utmost of his power.~Cleinias. That is evident.~Athenian.
358 3 | say; for my opinion is—~Cleinias. What?~Athenian. That the
359 3 | ignorance of handicraftsmen.~Cleinias. Yes, my friend, we understand
360 3 | saying, be laid down by us.~Cleinias. Let it be so laid down.~
361 3 | and subjects in states?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And
362 3 | rule over their offspring?~Cleinias. There is.~Athenian. Next
363 3 | rule and the younger obey?~Cleinias. To be sure.~Athenian. And,
364 3 | and their masters rule?~Cleinias. Of course.~Athenian. Fifthly,
365 3 | and the weaker be ruled?~Cleinias. That is a rule not to be
366 3 | not a rule of compulsion.~Cleinias. Most true.~Athenian. There
367 3 | affirm to be quite just.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. “Then
368 3 | the immoderate or worse.”~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And
369 3 | than when among peoples?~Cleinias. The probability is that
370 3 | dissonance and harsh discord.~Cleinias. Very likely.~Athenian.
371 3 | a power to be despised.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. There was
372 3 | was small credit to us, Cleinias, in defeating them; and
373 3 | and live miserably. These, Cleinias and Megillus, are the reproaches
374 3 | ought not to disturb us.~Cleinias. Let us resume the argument
375 3 | is not made up of both.~Cleinias. Impossible.~Athenian. Neither
376 3 | less. Shall I tell you why?~Cleinias. By all means, if it will
377 3 | communion of mind among them.~Cleinias. That certainly appears
378 3 | Shall I try to divine?~Cleinias. The enquiry, no doubt,
379 3 | order of his household.~Cleinias. What makes you say so?~
380 3 | how they brought them up.~Cleinias. A splendid education truly!~
381 3 | time to look after them.~Cleinias. What would you expect?~
382 3 | despised the folly of Cambyses.~Cleinias. So runs the tale, and such
383 3 | Darius and the seven chiefs.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Let us
384 3 | And I would wish you and Cleinias to consider whether my words
385 3 | life. And now, Megillus and Cleinias, how can we put to the proof
386 3 | the value of our words?~Cleinias. Stranger, I think that
387 3 | contemplation.~Athenian. Good news, Cleinias; if Megillus has no objection,
388 3 | my power to please you.~Cleinias. Thank you.~Megillus. And
389 3 | Megillus. And so will I.~Cleinias. Excellent; and now let
390 4 | whether maritime or inland.~Cleinias. I should imagine, Stranger,
391 4 | harbours on the seaboard?~Cleinias. Excellent harbours, Stranger;
392 4 | in need of importations?~Cleinias. Hardly in need of anything.~
393 4 | any neighbouring State?~Cleinias. None whatever, and that
394 4 | hill, and plain, and wood?~Cleinias. Like the rest of Crete
395 4 | is more rock than plain?~Cleinias. Exactly.~Athenian. Then
396 4 | the previous discussion.~Cleinias. I remember, and am of opinion
397 4 | timber for ship–building?~Cleinias. There is no fir of any
398 4 | also natural advantages.~Cleinias. Why so?~Athenian. Because
399 4 | in what is mischievous.~Cleinias. How does that bear upon
400 4 | cannot justly award honour?~Cleinias. It is hardly possible,
401 4 | which has been made already.~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. Then we
402 4 | and legislation of states.~Cleinias. The best by far.~Athenian.
403 4 | the present enterprise?~Cleinias. They will come from all
404 4 | legislation and colonization.~Cleinias. No doubt; but I should
405 4 | equally to all human things?~Cleinias. To what are you referring?~
406 4 | equal truth of all of them.~Cleinias. What is it?~Athenian. That
407 4 | s art. You would agree?~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. And does
408 4 | time appear on the scene?~Cleinias. Most true.~Athenian. In
409 4 | require to exercise his art?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And
410 4 | special prayer, would do so?~Cleinias. Of course.~Athenian. And
411 4 | legislator would do likewise?~Cleinias. I believe that he would.~
412 4 | Shall I give his answer?~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. He will
413 4 | to be any good in them.”~Cleinias. I suppose, Megillus, that
414 4 | temperance?~Athenian. Yes, Cleinias, temperance in the vulgar
415 4 | must understand my meaning.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Then
416 4 | polity than by a tyranny.~Cleinias. By what possible arguments,
417 4 | no difficulty in seeing, Cleinias, what is in accordance with
418 4 | with the order of nature?~Cleinias. You would assume, as you
419 4 | diminution of the number.~Cleinias. You mean to say, I suppose,
420 4 | easiest and most rapid.~Cleinias. How? I do not understand.~
421 4 | which is under a tyranny?~Cleinias. No, and I cannot say that
422 4 | which I am now speaking.~Cleinias. What do you mean?~Athenian.
423 4 | degrading those who disobey.~Cleinias. But how can we imagine
424 4 | rather all blessings follow.~Cleinias. Of what are you speaking?~
425 4 | granting our supposition.~Cleinias. How do you mean?~Athenian.
426 4 | suitable to your state.~Cleinias. Let us proceed without
427 4 | the State and the laws!~Cleinias. May he come!~Athenian.
428 4 | going to give the city?~Cleinias. Tell us what you mean a
429 4 | first, since I am the elder?~Cleinias. Perhaps you should.~Megillus.
430 4 | government the Spartan is.~Cleinias. I am in the same difficulty,
431 4 | who rules over wise men.~Cleinias. And who is this God?~Athenian.
432 4 | your question: shall I?~Cleinias. By all means.~Athenian.
433 4 | existing states is a copy.~Cleinias. It will be very necessary
434 4 | introduced the subject.~Cleinias. Most appropriately; and
435 4 | salvation is hopeless. And now, Cleinias, we have to consider whether
436 4 | accept this tale of mine.~Cleinias. Certainly we will.~Athenian.
437 4 | natural definition of justice.~Cleinias. How?~Athenian. Justice
438 4 | interest of the stronger.~Cleinias. Speak plainer.~Athenian.
439 4 | authority in any state?”~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. “Well,”
440 4 | principal object of their laws?”~Cleinias. How can they have any other?~
441 4 | who calls the laws just?”~Cleinias. Naturally.~Athenian. “This,
442 4 | in which justice exists.”~Cleinias. Certainly, if they are
443 4 | which we were referring.~Cleinias. Which do you mean?~Athenian.
444 4 | natural and justified it.~Cleinias. Yes; I remember.~Athenian.
445 4 | without number in states—~Cleinias. What thing?~Athenian. That
446 4 | which the Gods can confer.~Cleinias. Truly, Stranger, you see
447 4 | when he is old keenest.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And
448 4 | make our speech to them?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. “Friends,”
449 4 | think, or not do or think?~Cleinias. Every man ought to make
450 4 | can guarantee one thing.~Cleinias. What is that?~Athenian.
451 4 | legislator in all his laws.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. The
452 4 | before, it is then easy.~Cleinias. Yes; and he certainly speaks
453 4 | discourse has had upon me.~Cleinias. Proceed.~Athenian. Suppose
454 4 | do, you can surely tell.”~Cleinias. Of course he can.~Athenian. “
455 4 | the hurt of the state.”~Cleinias. That is true.~Athenian.
456 4 | on behalf of the poets?~Cleinias. What answer shall we make
457 4 | language that can become law.~Cleinias. Certainly not.~Athenian.
458 4 | are also styled doctors.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And
459 4 | two classes of doctors?~Cleinias. To be sure.~Athenian. And
460 4 | the ruder and inferior?~Cleinias. I should say, Stranger,
461 4 | single method in legislation?~Cleinias. Certainly I should.~Athenian.
462 4 | for states about births?~Cleinias. He will.~Athenian. In all
463 4 | connection of marriage?~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And,
464 4 | determined in every state?~Cleinias. Quite so.~Athenian. Then
465 4 | choose. But I think that Cleinias is the person to be consulted,
466 4 | going to use these laws.~Cleinias. Thank you, Megillus.~Athenian.
467 4 | regarded in our existing laws.~Cleinias. What is it?~Athenian. A
468 4 | the case already given.~Cleinias. The lawgiver, if he asks
469 4 | think that you are right, Cleinias, in affirming that all laws
470 4 | instance, of the lawgiver.~Cleinias. That I think is most true.
471 4 | subject into the light of day?~Cleinias. Exactly.~Athenian. After
472 4 | which follow next in order.~Cleinias. Very good.~
473 5 | will leave the choice to Cleinias now, or to any one else
474 5 | observe, O Megillus and Cleinias, that there is a difference
475 5 | accordingly. And this is what you, Cleinias, must do, and to matters
476 5 | colonize a new country.~Cleinias. Your words, Athenian Stranger,
477 6 | appointment of magistracies.~Cleinias. Very good.~Athenian. In
478 6 | about the election of them.~Cleinias. What have you got to say?~
479 6 | evil will accrue from them.~Cleinias. Of course.~Athenian. Then
480 6 | the choice of magistrates?~Cleinias. Impossible.~Athenian. The
481 6 | is such a hideous thing.~Cleinias. Excellent, Stranger.~Athenian.
482 6 | will be as good as my word.~Cleinias. Let us by all means do
483 6 | age will only permit us.~Cleinias. But God will be gracious.~
484 6 | consider further point.~Cleinias. What is it?~Athenian. Let
485 6 | creation this our city is.~Cleinias. What had you in your mind
486 6 | man need not be very wise, Cleinias, in order to see that no
487 6 | trained not being permanent.~Cleinias. A reasonable supposition.~
488 6 | difficulty; for I maintain, Cleinias, that the Cnosians, above
489 6 | are of less importance.~Cleinias. What method can we devise
490 6 | violence in order to make you.~Cleinias. But why, Stranger, do not
491 6 | our new city?~Athenian. O, Cleinias, Athens is proud, and Sparta
492 6 | number of votes. But who, Cleinias and Megillus, will order
493 6 | praised by any one enough.~Cleinias. That is very true.~Athenian.
494 6 | necessary and expedient.~Cleinias. What is it?~Athenian. I
495 6 | and temples, and the like?~Cleinias. To be sure there ought.~
496 6 | the work of legislation.~Cleinias. I like what you have said,
497 6 | pastime has gone off well.~Cleinias. You mean, I suppose, their
498 6 | agreed about a certain thing.~Cleinias. About what thing?~Athenian.
499 6 | brighter and more beautiful.~Cleinias. I know something of these
500 6 | will last but a short time?~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. And is