(...) Laws
    Book
501 6    |           which he has established?~Cleinias. Assuredly, that is the
502 6    |          leave the work incomplete.~Cleinias. By all means.~Athenian.
503 6    |           do at the present moment?~Cleinias. What have we to do?~Athenian.
504 6    |            far as this is possible.~Cleinias. Certainly; if we can.~Athenian.
505 6    |          rate, we must do our best.~Cleinias. Of course.~Athenian. We
506 6    |            are to act. Megillus and Cleinias and I have often spoken
507 6    |            and appropriate. For, as Cleinias says, every law should have
508 6    |            have a suitable prelude.~Cleinias. You recollect at the right
509 6    |           opposite.~Megillus. True.~Cleinias. Then what are we to do
510 6    |             owners?~Athenian. Well, Cleinias, there can be no doubt that
511 6    |            and freeman, and master.~Cleinias. That is obvious.~Athenian.
512 6    |         them and for their masters.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Now that
513 6    |           describe their dwellings.~Cleinias. Very good.~Athenian. The
514 6    |           temples and walls. These, Cleinias, were matters which properly
515 6    |       matters in a general outline.~Cleinias. Quite true.~Athenian. The
516 6    |           the order of legislation.~Cleinias. By all means.~Athenian.
517 6    |            marriages exist already, Cleinias, the mode of life during
518 6    |            me to be right and true, Cleinias.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian.
519 6    |           right and true, Cleinias.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. He
520 6    |             the world, Megillus and Cleinias, as I should suppose, on
521 6    |             tables arose among you.~Cleinias. Likely enough.~Athenian.
522 6    |        impossible and useless feat.~Cleinias. What is the cause, Stranger,
523 6    |          now waiting. For with you, Cleinias and Megillus, the common
524 6    |         rather not, I will refrain.~Cleinias. There is nothing which
525 6    |            view the subject of law.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Then let
526 6    |         began an immense while ago.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Well,
527 6    |      transformations of themselves?~Cleinias. No doubt.~Athenian. And
528 6    |             other as they do still?~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Again,
529 6    |             from all living things.~Cleinias. Such has been the constant
530 6    |           is the drift of all this?~Cleinias. A very pertinent question,
531 6    |         therefore I will endeavour, Cleinias, if I can, to draw the natural
532 6    |         draw the natural inference.~Cleinias. Proceed.~Athenian. I see
533 6    |           proper or suited to them.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. Let
534 6    |          there may be need of them.~Cleinias. What do you bid us keep
535 6    |             the excitement of love.~Cleinias. We shall be sure to remember,
536 6    |             the terrors of the law.~Cleinias. What do you mean?~Athenian.
537 7    |      clearness in what I am saying.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. Stranger.
538 7    |       improvement of mind and body?~Cleinias. Undoubtedly.~Athenian.
539 7    |             and straightest manner?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And
540 7    |          which he attained at five.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Well, and
541 7    |          endless evils in the body?~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. And the
542 7    |          receives most nourishment?~Cleinias. But, Stranger, are we to
543 7    |            of infants still unborn.~Cleinias. What do you mean, my good
544 7    |        endeavour to explain to you.~Cleinias. By all means.~Athenian.
545 7    |             heads more than enough.~Cleinias. What penalty?~Athenian.
546 7    |            of the nurses to comply.~Cleinias. Then why was there any
547 7    |            state well and be happy.~Cleinias. Likely enough.~Athenian.
548 7    |           relating to their bodies.~Cleinias. By all means.~Athenian.
549 7    |             the dance and of music.~Cleinias. Well, Stranger, and what
550 7    |              The reason is obvious.~Cleinias. What?~Athenian. The affection
551 7    |           favour of this treatment.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. But
552 7    |       cowardice and not of courage.~Cleinias. No doubt.~Athenian. And,
553 7    |             an exercise of courage.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. And we
554 7    |         part of virtue in the soul.~Cleinias. Quite true.~Athenian. Further,
555 7    |             cowardice on the other.~Cleinias. To be sure.~Athenian. Then
556 7    |             character in the young.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. There
557 7    |             undesirable associates.~Cleinias. But how must the state
558 7    |         more than any other animal.~Cleinias. Quite true.~Athenian. Do
559 7    |           to be passed ill or well.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Does not
560 7    |             a good man ought to be?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Well,
561 7    |           more gentle and cheerful?~Cleinias. To be sure, Stranger—more
562 7    |        There I can no longer agree, Cleinias: you amaze me. To bring
563 7    |             see whether I am right.~Cleinias. Proceed.~Athenian. The
564 7    |           benevolence and kindness.~Cleinias. You need not, ask Megillus,
565 7    |      answered?~Athenian. Very good, Cleinias; and now let us all three
566 7    |           consider a further point.~Cleinias. What is it?~Athenian. That
567 7    |   undermined. Reflecting upon this, Cleinias, you ought to bind together
568 7    |           lengthening out our laws.~Cleinias. Very true: we are disposed
569 7    |          universally misunderstood.~Cleinias. In what respect?~Athenian.
570 7    |             freemen, O Megillus and Cleinias.~I have now completely described
571 7    |          communicate your thoughts?~Cleinias. It is not easy, Stranger,
572 7    |            let us proceed to speak.~Cleinias. By all means.~Athenian.
573 7    |    confidence which makes me go on.~Cleinias. What have you to say, Stranger?~
574 7    |        great I deem the evil to be?~Cleinias. You mean the evil of blaming
575 7    |          states?~Athenian. Exactly.~Cleinias. If you are speaking of
576 7    |       Athenian. I should expect so.~Cleinias. Proceed.~Athenian. Well,
577 7    |       require the utmost prevision.~Cleinias. To be sure.~Athenian. And
578 7    |    characters in men? What say you?~Cleinias. That is the only doctrine
579 7    |             varieties of pleasures.~Cleinias. Most true.~Athenian. Can
580 7    |         than that of the Egyptians?~Cleinias. What is their method?~Athenian.
581 7    |           him by any one who likes.~Cleinias. Very good.~Athenian. In
582 7    |           what is due to ourselves.~Cleinias. To what are you referring?~
583 7    |            certain all in a moment.~Cleinias. Most true.~Athenian. Then
584 7    |             our present perplexity.~Cleinias. Excellent, Stranger; let
585 7    |         imagine this to be our law.~Cleinias. Very good.~Athenian. Can
586 7    |           and of his other kinsmen?~Cleinias. Of course.~Athenian. And
587 7    |             our principles of song—~Cleinias. What?~Athenian. That we
588 7    |             that you agree with me.~Cleinias. By all means; that law
589 7    |             Gods when we sacrifice?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And
590 7    |           surely be too ridiculous.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. Were
591 7    |          should dwell in our state?~Cleinias. To be sure.~Athenian. And
592 7    |       models relating to the Muses—~Cleinias. What?—will you explain
593 7    |          and model—What do you say?~Cleinias. Let it be so, by all means.~
594 7    |           their several characters.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. In
595 7    |          this will be very fitting.~Cleinias. Quite true.~Athenian. But
596 7    |             other makes them worse.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. Again,
597 7    |             and quite rightly, too.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. I
598 7    |           what they are at present.~Cleinias. In what respect?~Athenian.
599 7    |       legislator to make than this?~Cleinias. Very true; yet much of
600 7    |     Athenian. I should wish to say, Cleinias, as I said before, that
601 7    |           some other order of life.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And
602 7    |         Megillus. What shall we do, Cleinias? Shall we allow a stranger
603 7    |             Sparta in this fashion?~Cleinias. Yes; for as we have given
604 7    |             Then now I may proceed?~Cleinias. By all means.~Athenian.
605 7    |             be in great difficulty.~Cleinias. What troubles you, Stranger?
606 7    |        Athenian. You naturally ask, Cleinias, and to you and Megillus,
607 7    |           easier parts of the task.~Cleinias. To what do you refer in
608 7    |             many myriads of mouths.~Cleinias. Well, and have we not already
609 7    |            cheer, and not to faint.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And
610 7    |             in what they are wrong.~Cleinias. Yes, I do.~Athenian. But
611 7    |     learning is dangerous to youth.~Cleinias. How would you advise the
612 7    |          Athenian. In what respect?~Cleinias. I mean to what pattern
613 7    |        answering.~Athenian. My good Cleinias, I rather think that I am
614 7    |          think that I am fortunate.~Cleinias. How so?~Athenian. I think
615 7    |             letters come to an end.~Cleinias. I do not think, Stranger,
616 7    |       certain.~Athenian. The truth, Cleinias, may be expected to become
617 7    |        whole discussion about laws.~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. And now
618 7    |             receive orders from us.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. I
619 7    |           the teachers of the lyre.~Cleinias. To what do you refer?~Athenian.
620 7    |            by the way of imitation.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And
621 7    |         them an innocent amusement.~Cleinias. That, again, is true.~Athenian.
622 7    |           exercises—ought they not?~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. Then the
623 7    |        mistresses to exercise them.~Cleinias. Very good.~Athenian. Then
624 7    |             of music and gymnastic.~Cleinias. But how will old man be
625 7    |           man is the most cowardly!~Cleinias. Such a want of education,
626 7    |        alike, shall attend to them?~Cleinias. I quite agree.~Athenian.
627 7    |          for the sake of wrestling.~Cleinias. Excellent.~Athenian. Enough
628 7    |      masters, if you do not object.~Cleinias. We can have no hesitation
629 7    |           application of the words.~Cleinias. And what necessities of
630 7    |     contends, or ever will contend.~Cleinias. I think, Stranger, that
631 7    |           to nature.~Athenian. Yes, Cleinias, that is so. But it is difficult
632 7    |          make regulations for them.~Cleinias. You seem, Stranger, to
633 7    |             up, are far more fatal.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. All freemen,
634 7    |          ludicrous and disgraceful.~Cleinias. What kind of ignorance
635 7    |           mean?~Athenian. O my dear Cleinias, I, like yourself, have
636 7    |        myself, but of all Hellenes.~Cleinias. About what? Say, Stranger,
637 7    |            suppose, what length is?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And
638 7    |      Athenian. And what breadth is?~Cleinias. To be sure.~Athenian. And
639 7    |           third thing called depth?~Cleinias. Of course.~Athenian. And
640 7    |      commensurable with themselves?~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. That is
641 7    |             like manner with depth?~Cleinias. Undoubtedly.~Athenian.
642 7    |         position in regard to them?~Cleinias. Clearly, far from good.~
643 7    | commensurable with one in some way?~Cleinias. Quite true.~Athenian. But
644 7    |            is no great distinction?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And
645 7    |          errors of the same family.~Cleinias. What are they?~Athenian.
646 7    |             man’s game of draughts.~Cleinias. I dare say; and these pastimes
647 7    |           And these, as I maintain, Cleinias, are the studies which our
648 7    |             say what he has to say.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Then
649 7    |             they shall be excluded.~Cleinias. Assuredly: but may we not
650 7    |             or you who accept them.~Cleinias. A fair condition.~Athenian.
651 7    |             proposed for our youth.~Cleinias. Proceed.~Athenian. Here
652 7    |         point of view be tolerated.~Cleinias. To what are you referring?~
653 7    |         very opposite is the truth.~Cleinias. What do you mean?~Athenian.
654 7    |         abstain from expressing it.~Cleinias. Your words are reasonable
655 7    |         Gods, the Sun and the Moon.~Cleinias. Lies of what nature?~Athenian.
656 7    |          them planets or wanderers.~Cleinias. Very true, Stranger; and
657 7    |     Athenian. Just so, Megillus and Cleinias; and I maintain that our
658 7    |            to blaspheme about them.~Cleinias. There you are right if
659 7    |            old men like yourselves.~Cleinias. True; but what is this
660 7    |            ludicrous and erroneous?~Cleinias. Worse than ludicrous, I
661 7    |             a false report of them.~Cleinias. Most true, if such is the
662 7    |           let this be our decision.~Cleinias. Very good.~Athenian. Enough
663 7    |             education are complete.~Cleinias. Very good.~  ~
664 8    |             partly regulated by us.~Cleinias. The number—yes.~Athenian.
665 8    |            the art of self–defence?~Cleinias. The way which you mention
666 8    |             than the loss of a few.~Cleinias. We are quite agreed, Stranger,
667 8    |      mankind and their legislators?~Cleinias. Perhaps.~Athenian. Certainly
668 8    |      Athenian. Certainly not, sweet Cleinias; there are two causes, which
669 8    |         account for the deficiency.~Cleinias. What are they?~Athenian.
670 8    |         gratification of his lusts.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Let this,
671 8    |           but they are unfortunate.~Cleinias. What do you mean?~Athenian.
672 8    |      through life always hungering?~Cleinias. Then that is one cause,
673 8    |         Thank you for reminding me.~Cleinias. The insatiable life long
674 8    |       because I am in a perplexity?~Cleinias. No; but we think that you
675 8    |         That is a very fair rebuke, Cleinias; and I will now proceed
676 8    |        proceed to the second cause.~Cleinias. Proceed.~Athenian. I say
677 8    |    perfected according to our idea.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Then next
678 8    |           of running and swiftness.~Cleinias. Very good.~Athenian. Certainly
679 8    |           need vigour and strength.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. Neither
680 8    |            efficiency without arms.~Cleinias. How can they?~Athenian.
681 8    |           to the conqueror in each.~Cleinias. Very good.~Athenian. Let
682 8    |          and following reason only.~Cleinias. What is this, Stranger,
683 8    |           so great a danger? Truly, Cleinias, here is a difficulty. In
684 8    |           difficulty and obscurity.~Cleinias. How is that?~Athenian.
685 8    |            we term the excess love.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. The
686 8    |            your custom any further. Cleinias shall be prevailed upon
687 8    |            not beyond human nature?~Cleinias. By all means.~Athenian.
688 8    |     condition, and out of training?~Cleinias. He will be far more temperate
689 8    |           and many others; and yet, Cleinias, they were far worse educated
690 8    |        their bodies far more lusty.~Cleinias. No doubt this fact has
691 8    |        tales and sayings and songs?~Cleinias. Of what victory are you
692 8    |      inferior people have mastered?~Cleinias. I dare say.~Athenian. And
693 8    |            second law against them.~Cleinias. And what law would you
694 8    |          failed?~Athenian. Clearly, Cleinias, the one which would naturally
695 8    |             would naturally follow.~Cleinias. What is that?~Athenian.
696 8    |             them not to transgress.~Cleinias. What are they?~Athenian.
697 8    |            gladly receive this law. Cleinias shall speak for himself,
698 8    |            you what is his opinion.~Cleinias. I will, Megillus, when
699 8    |          point of view of unequals.~Cleinias. What do you mean?~Athenian.
700 8    |         better and sometimes worse.~Cleinias. Of course.~Athenian. Such
701 9    |           to be the judges of them.~Cleinias. Very good.~Athenian Stranger.
702 9    |      fortune than his predecessors!~Cleinias. Very good.~Athenian. Once
703 9    |            set free from his bonds.~Cleinias. What makes you say, Stranger,
704 9    |            was running on too fast, Cleinias, and you impinged upon me,
705 9    |            doctor, but to get well.~Cleinias. And would he not be right?~
706 9    |       rather a telling observation.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. But
707 9    |     Athenian. But we are fortunate.~Cleinias. In what way?~Athenian.
708 9    |        necessary—which shall we do?~Cleinias. There is something ridiculous,
709 9    |            Certainly, in that case, Cleinias, our view of law will be
710 9    |            entreat you to consider.~Cleinias. What is it?~Athenian. There
711 9    |           well as by other persons.~Cleinias. To be sure.~Athenian. Shall
712 9    |             heed to them above all?~Cleinias. Yes; to them far above
713 9    |             who intend to be happy?~Cleinias. Certainly not.~Athenian.
714 9    |          gracious, it will be good!~Cleinias. Excellent; let us do as
715 9    |             consider these matters.~Cleinias. By all means.~Athenian.
716 9    |          disagree among themselves.~Cleinias. What are the inconsistencies
717 9    |          any inconsistency in this.~Cleinias. They would be quite right.~
718 9    |       correlatives of just actions.~Cleinias. And what is the inference?~
719 9    |            the fair and honourable.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And
720 9    |           consistently carried out?~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. But then
721 9    |            the honourable disagree?~Cleinias. What do you mean?~Athenian.
722 9    |      opposed to what we are saying.~Cleinias. To what?~Athenian. We had
723 9    |             diametrical opposition?~Cleinias. Such appears to be the
724 9    |            the honourable and just.~Cleinias. Very true, Stranger.~Athenian.
725 9    |       Stranger.~Athenian. Then now, Cleinias, let us see how far we ourselves
726 9    |     consistent about these matters.~Cleinias. Consistent in what?~Athenian.
727 9    |          did not, let me now state—~Cleinias. What?~Athenian. That all
728 9    |           draw a further inference.~Cleinias. What is it?~Athenian. That
729 9    |   inconsistent with myself, if you, Cleinias, and you, Megillus, say
730 9    |           thing as voluntary crime?~Cleinias. Very good, Stranger; and
731 9    |            the first place, let us—~Cleinias. Do what?~Athenian. Let
732 9    |         fitly or unfitly inflicted.~Cleinias. I agree with you, Stranger;
733 9    |           distinction between them.~Cleinias. Very true, Stranger; there
734 9    |          voluntary and involuntary.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. I
735 9    |           going to say; for I deny, Cleinias and Megillus, that he who
736 9    |             to those of friendship.~Cleinias. Very good.~Athenian. Then
737 9    |            the following direction.~Cleinias. What direction?~Athenian.
738 9    |             punishment of offences.~Cleinias. What you have said appears
739 9    |        force overturns many things.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. And
740 9    |            of deceit in all things.~Cleinias. Quite true.~Athenian. A
741 9    |          most merciful of all laws.~Cleinias. You are perfectly right.~
742 9    |             them; and this is true.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. But
743 9    |      another inferior to ignorance.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. We
744 9    |        directions at the same time.~Cleinias. Yes, often.~Athenian. And
745 9    |          denominate anger and fear.~Cleinias. Quite right.~Athenian.
746 9    |             make laws of two kinds.~Cleinias. What are the two kinds?~
747 9    |            a character of severity.~Cleinias. Naturally.~Athenian. And
748 9    |            be the rule of our laws.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Let
749 9    |            desires, and jealousies.~Cleinias. Very good.~Athenian. Let
750 9    |              is next to impossible.~Cleinias. Then what is to be the
751 9    |            must decide for himself.~Cleinias. And what ought the legislator
752 10   |             sacrifices and prayers.~Cleinias. What shall we say or do
753 10   |  superiority will utter against us.~Cleinias. What jests?~Athenian. They
754 10   |           to accept our challenge.”~Cleinias. But is there any difficulty
755 10   |             How would you prove it?~Cleinias. How? In the first place,
756 10   |           love of sensual pleasure.~Cleinias. Why, Stranger, what other
757 10   |       atmosphere would never guess.~Cleinias. What is it?~Athenian. A
758 10   |             be the greatest wisdom.~Cleinias. What do you mean?~Athenian.
759 10   |           words and a make–believe.~Cleinias. One such teacher, O Stranger,
760 10   |           the requisite enactments.~Cleinias. Yes, Stranger; but then
761 10   |             truth of these matters.~Cleinias. Our address, Stranger,
762 10   |            Quite true, Megillus and Cleinias, but I am afraid that we
763 10   |      lighted on a strange doctrine.~Cleinias. What doctrine do you mean?~
764 10   |             in the opinion of many.~Cleinias. I wish that you would speak
765 10   |            art, and some by chance.~Cleinias. Is not that true?~Athenian.
766 10   |           them and their disciples.~Cleinias. By all means.~Athenian.
767 10   |        generally termed artificial.~Cleinias. How is that?~Athenian.
768 10   |     assumptions which are not true.~Cleinias. How do you mean?~Athenian.
769 10   |           legal subjection to them.~Cleinias. What a dreadful picture,
770 10   |           families!~Athenian. True, Cleinias; but then what should the
771 10   |           of them as far as he can?~Cleinias. Why, Stranger, if such
772 10   |      Athenian. Yes, my enthusiastic Cleinias; but are not these things
773 10   |            a dismal length of time?~Cleinias. Why, Stranger, shall we,
774 10   |     Megillus. Stranger, I like what Cleinias is saying.~Athenian. Yes,
775 10   |      Athenian. Well, then, tell me, Cleinias—for I must ask you to be
776 10   |            is what he really means.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. Then,
777 10   |         that is my opinion of them.~Cleinias. You are right; but I should
778 10   |         argument may seem singular.~Cleinias. Do not hesitate, Stranger;
779 10   |            true nature of the Gods.~Cleinias. Still I do not understand
780 10   |        which appertain to the body?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Then
781 10   |         government of art and mind.~Cleinias. But why is the word “nature”
782 10   |            body, but not otherwise.~Cleinias. You are quite right.~Athenian.
783 10   |       attention should be directed?~Cleinias. By all means.~Athenian.
784 10   |          soul is prior to the body.~Cleinias. Excellent, Stranger, and
785 10   |      exception, my friends, of two?~Cleinias. Which are they?~Athenian.
786 10   |       present enquiry is concerned.~Cleinias. Speak plainer.~Athenian.
787 10   |          has reference to the soul?~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. Let
788 10   |           the many kinds of motion.~Cleinias. Granted.~Athenian. And
789 10   |         inclined to call the tenth.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And
790 10   |       mightiest and most efficient?~Cleinias. I must say that the motion
791 10   |            what I have been saying?~Cleinias. What are they?~Athenian.
792 10   |         that was not quite correct.~Cleinias. What was the error?~Athenian.
793 10   |             termed the ninth by us.~Cleinias. What do you mean?~Athenian.
794 10   |          the self–moving principle?~Cleinias. Very true, and I quite
795 10   |         first spring up among them?~Cleinias. Clearly the self–moving;
796 10   |          yet moves other is second.~Cleinias. Quite true.~Athenian. At
797 10   |     argument let us put a question.~Cleinias. What question?~Athenian.
798 10   |          how should we describe it?~Cleinias. You mean to ask whether
799 10   |         power life?~Athenian. I do.~Cleinias. Certainly we should.~Athenian.
800 10   |            admit that this is life?~Cleinias. We must.~Athenian. And
801 10   |      threefold knowledge of things?~Cleinias. What do you mean?~Athenian.
802 10   |           be raised about anything.~Cleinias. How two?~Athenian. Sometimes
803 10   |            what I mean in this way.~Cleinias. How?~Athenian. Number like
804 10   |    divisible into two equal parts”?~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. I mean,
805 10   |       divided into two equal parts.~Cleinias. Quite true.~Athenian. And
806 10   |       motion which can move itself?~Cleinias. You mean to say that the
807 10   |           and motion in all things?~Cleinias. Certainly not; the soul
808 10   |        number which you may prefer?~Cleinias. Exactly.~Athenian. Then
809 10   |           soul, which is the ruler?~Cleinias. Nothing can be more true.~
810 10   |         prior to those of the body?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Then
811 10   |          soul is prior to the body.~Cleinias. To be sure.~Athenian. In
812 10   |            the cause of all things?~Cleinias. We must.~Athenian. And
813 10   |            orders also the heavens?~Cleinias. Of course.~Athenian. One
814 10   |              and the other of evil.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. Yes,
815 10   |             still entertain doubts?~Cleinias. There is no room at all
816 10   |            make answer as follows:—~Cleinias. How would you answer?~Athenian.
817 10   |             it along the good path.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. But if
818 10   |            the evil soul guides it.~Cleinias. True again.~Athenian. Of
819 10   |          assist you in framing one.~Cleinias. Very good.~Athenian. Then
820 10   |             look at the image only.~Cleinias. What do you mean?~Athenian.
821 10   |         answer on behalf of us all.~Cleinias. That will be excellent.~
822 10   |        either at rest or in motion?~Cleinias. I do.~Athenian. And that
823 10   |            others in more than one?~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. Of these
824 10   |          circular movement of mind.~Cleinias. What do you mean?~Athenian.
825 10   |         discredit to our ingenuity.~Cleinias. It does us great credit.~
826 10   |            senselessness and folly?~Cleinias. That is most true.~Athenian.
827 10   |           revolution of the heaven.~Cleinias. And judging from what has
828 10   |   understood my meaning right well, Cleinias, and now let me ask you
829 10   |           ask you another question.~Cleinias. What are you going to ask?~
830 10   |            each individual of them?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Then
831 10   |         argument will apply to all.~Cleinias. Which will you take?~Athenian.
832 10   |      apprehend the following point.~Cleinias. What is that?~Athenian.
833 10   |          one of three alternatives.~Cleinias. What are they?~Athenian.
834 10   |  extraordinary and wonderful power.~Cleinias. Yes, certainly; the soul
835 10   |             man to be deemed a God.~Cleinias. Yes, by every man who has
836 10   |            all things full of Gods?~Cleinias. No one, Stranger, would
837 10   |     Athenian. And now, Megillus and Cleinias, let us offer terms to him
838 10   |            the Gods, and leave him.~Cleinias. What terms?~Athenian. Either
839 10   |           deny that there are Gods.~Cleinias. Certainly—quite enough,
840 10   |            And do you, Megillus and Cleinias, answer for the young man
841 10   |            river as I did just now.~Cleinias. Very good; do as you say,
842 10   |           entirely natural to them.~Cleinias. No doubt he heard that.~
843 10   |           and the contrary to vice?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Yes;
844 10   |              and cowardice of vice?~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. And the
845 10   |            the other dishonourable?~Cleinias. To be sure.~Athenian. And
846 10   |            in anything of the sort?~Cleinias. That again is what everybody
847 10   |         virtues? What do you think?~Cleinias. Decidedly not.~Athenian.
848 10   |           under the opposite class?~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. And their
849 10   |           under the opposite class?~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. But are
850 10   |       compares to stingless drones?~Cleinias. And the comparison is a
851 10   |             tolerated for a moment.~Cleinias. Of course not. How could
852 10   |         from one of two principles.~Cleinias. What are they?~Athenian.
853 10   |     strength or capacity to manage?~Cleinias. Certainly not.~Athenian.
854 10   |       knowledge:—do you admit this?~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. And do you
855 10   |             and immortals can have?~Cleinias. They will, of course, admit
856 10   |          they are good and perfect?~Cleinias. Assuredly.~Athenian. But,
857 10   |           inactivity and indolence.~Cleinias. Most true.~Athenian. Then
858 10   |            is no cowardice in them.~Cleinias. That is very true.~Athenian.
859 10   |          opposite of their knowing?~Cleinias. There is none.~Athenian.
860 10   |             by pleasures and pains?~Cleinias. Impossible.~Athenian. Do
861 10   |           religious of all animals?~Cleinias. That is not to be denied.~
862 10   |            whole of heaven belongs?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And,
863 10   |            a further consideration.~Cleinias. What is it?~Athenian. Sensation
864 10   |          their case and difficulty.~Cleinias. What do you mean?~Athenian.
865 10   |            than of their opposites.~Cleinias. Far more.~Athenian. Suppose
866 10   |             parts which are lesser?~Cleinias. Decidedly not well.~Athenian.
867 10   |            well without the lesser.~Cleinias. Of course not.~Athenian.
868 10   |            but to the greater only.~Cleinias. Never, Stranger, let us
869 10   |         accuse the Gods of neglect.~Cleinias. Yes.~Athenian. He has been
870 10   |          some words of consolation.~Cleinias. What consolation will you
871 10   |          them their proper portion.~Cleinias. In what way do you mean?~
872 10   |            a wonderfully easy task.~Cleinias. How so?~Athenian. I will
873 10   |             the nature of his soul.~Cleinias. Yes, that is probably true.~
874 10   |     discourse respecting either. If Cleinias and this our reverend company
875 10   |            the utmost of his power.~Cleinias. Very good; let us do as
876 10   |       unceasingly the whole heaven?~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. And to
877 10   |           name, which is injustice.~Cleinias. Quite true.~Athenian. What
878 10   |             propitiated argue thus?~Cleinias. Precisely so.~Athenian.
879 10   |     overturn both ship and sailors?~Cleinias. Assuredly not.~Athenian.
880 10   |          victory to other chariots?~Cleinias. That would be a fearful
881 10   |            have silenced by wolves.~Cleinias. A thing not to be spoken
882 10   |        guard our highest interests?~Cleinias. Yes; the chiefest.~Athenian.
883 10   |           men impiously offer them?~Cleinias. Certainly not: nor is such
884 10   |           May we say that they are?~Cleinias. You have our entire assent
885 10   |           men; and I will tell dear Cleinias, why I am so. I would not
886 10   |           have been spoken in vain.~Cleinias. So let us hope; and even
887 11   |             a great deal of virtue.~Cleinias. What do you mean?~Athenian
888 11   |             Athenian Stranger. Dear Cleinias, the class of men is small—
889 11   |             intestate. When I said, Cleinias, that we must regulate them,
890 11   |           that we are about to die.~Cleinias. What do you mean, Stranger?~
891 11   |         mean, Stranger?~Athenian. O Cleinias, a man when he is about
892 11   |          trouble to the legislator.~Cleinias. In what way?~Athenian.
893 11   |           and will use angry words.~Cleinias. Such as what?~Athenian.
894 11   |        every other sort of fortune!~Cleinias. Well Stranger, and may
895 11   |            Athenian. In my opinion, Cleinias, the ancient legislators
896 11   |      consideration of human things.~Cleinias. What do you mean?~Athenian.
897 11   |             our departing citizens.~Cleinias. What?~Athenian. O my friends,
898 11   |            to the living and dying, Cleinias, and let the law be as follows:~
899 11   |        ignorance imposes upon them.~Cleinias. And how, Stranger, can
900 11   |           and the subjects of them.~Cleinias. What do you mean?~Athenian.
901 11   |          show true service to them.~Cleinias. And what do you call the
902 11   |             are worth listening to.~Cleinias. Proceed.~Athenian. Oedipus,
903 11   |           contrary to their nature.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. May
904 11   |             the favour of the Gods.~Cleinias. Excellent.~Athenian. Every
905 11   |            we must do, Megillus and Cleinias, in the best and fairest
906 12   |       examination is ill–conducted.~Cleinias. How can we have an examination
907 12   |             creation is incomplete.~Cleinias. That is very good Stranger;
908 12   |          what you mean.~Athenian. O Cleinias, many things of old time
909 12   |          the Fates was one of them.~Cleinias. What is it?~Athenian. The
910 12   |           this irreversible nature.~Cleinias. It will be no small matter
911 12   |              so much I clearly see.~Cleinias. Then let us not think of
912 12   |             the same mind with you.~Cleinias. Very good: And now what,
913 12   |             sort said by us before?~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. Then, returning
914 12   |           that we wish to preserve.~Cleinias. What do you mean?~Athenian.
915 12   |           truth in all earnestness.~Cleinias. Well said, and I hope that
916 12   |          intention.~Athenian. Know, Cleinias, that everything, in all
917 12   |             are the chief saviours.~Cleinias. Once more, what do you
918 12   | preservation of every living thing.~Cleinias. How is that?~Athenian.
919 12   |        called the salvation of all.~Cleinias. Yes, Quite so.~Athenian.
920 12   |         themselves and their craft?~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. We
921 12   |        seeking to attain salvation?~Cleinias. Very good.~Athenian. Does
922 12   |       producing health in the body?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And
923 12   |         about any of these matters.~Cleinias. They cannot.~Athenian.
924 12   |         does not even know the aim?~Cleinias. Impossible.~Athenian. And
925 12   |             proceed by mere chance.~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. In
926 12   |            to be found? Can we say?~Cleinias. I am not quite certain,
927 12   |            understand me perfectly, Cleinias; and we must assume, as
928 12   |           this to fix all our aims.~Cleinias. Quite true.~Athenian. Then
929 12   |         would have all things look.~Cleinias. Then, Stranger, our former
930 12   |           be virtue.~Athenian. Yes.~Cleinias. And we said that virtue
931 12   |        kinds?~Athenian. Quite true.~Cleinias. And that mind was the leader
932 12   |            You follow me capitally, Cleinias, and I would ask you to
933 12   |             you, Megillus, and you, Cleinias, say distinctly what is
934 12   |             which I have given you?~Cleinias. We cannot, Stranger.~Athenian.
935 12   |            where it is to be found?~Cleinias. For example, where?~Athenian.
936 12   |           each of them must be one.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And
937 12   |           but one, that is, virtue.~Cleinias. Quite so.~Athenian. There
938 12   |          the single name of virtue.~Cleinias. How do you mean?~Athenian.
939 12   |      subject questions and answers.~Cleinias. Once more, what do you
940 12   |           is of a different nature.~Cleinias. That is true.~Athenian.
941 12   |      glorious truths are concerned?~Cleinias. I suppose not.~Athenian.
942 12   |        temperance, wisdom, justice?~Cleinias. How can there be anything
943 12   |          fate of cities in our day?~Cleinias. Wonder! no.~Athenian. Well,
944 12   |   possessing such a guardian power?~Cleinias. What, Stranger, is the
945 12   |             training and education?~Cleinias. That they should be equal,
946 12   |             any which has preceded.~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. And
947 12   |             were just now alluding?~Cleinias. Very true.~Athenian. Did
948 12   |           things with a view to it.~Cleinias. True.~Athenian. And can
949 12   |         from many different things?~Cleinias. Perhaps not.~Athenian.
950 12   |         this discovered by any man.~Cleinias. I bow to your authority,
951 12   |          the matter alone, we will.~Cleinias. We must not, Stranger,
952 12   |             has to be accomplished.~Cleinias. Certainly, it ought to
953 12   |           in what way they are one?~Cleinias. They must consider also
954 12   |          set forth what they think?~Cleinias. Certainly not; that would
955 12   |          well, according to nature?~Cleinias. Certainly.~Athenian. Is
956 12   |           laboured at these things.~Cleinias. It is certainly just, as
957 12   |             we have already stated?~Cleinias. What are they?~Athenian.
958 12   |            will accomplishing good.~Cleinias. But what is the fact?~Athenian.
959 12   |         said, the case is reversed.~Cleinias. How so?~Athenian. No man
960 12   |            other rulers. Wherefore, Cleinias and Megillus, let us consider
961 12   |              Shall we propose this?~Cleinias. Certainly, my good friend,
962 12   |          others who will also help.~Cleinias. I agree, Stranger, that
963 12   |            Athenian. O Megillus and Cleinias, about these matters we
964 12   |        rightly in a long discourse.~Cleinias. What do you mean, and what
965 12   |         they would have no meaning.~Cleinias. What then are we to do,
966 12   |             and I would advise you, Cleinias, in particular, to see to
967 12   |             in them.~Megillus. Dear Cleinias, after all that has been
968 12   |            give up the undertaking.~Cleinias. Very true, Megillus; and


Protagoras
    Part
969 Text |         fairer love than the son of Cleinias?~SOCRATES: And is not the
970 Text |          another example: there was Cleinias the younger brother of our
971 Text |         under the apprehension that Cleinias would be corrupted by Alcibiades,


The Second Alcibiades
    Part
972 Text |             that Alcibiades, son of Cleinias, was tyrant:—in such a case,