The Apology
    Part
  1 Intro|          passage, on the testimony of Hermogenes, the friend of Socrates,


Cratylus
    Part
  2 Intro|           agree with Cratylus or with Hermogenes, and is he serious in those
  3 Intro|    personifying, in the characters of Hermogenes, Socrates, and Cratylus,
  4 Intro|              persons of the dialogue, Hermogenes and Cratylus, are at the
  5 Intro|       interposes between them. First, Hermogenes, the poor brother of the
  6 Intro|             first of all intimates to Hermogenes that his view of language
  7 Intro|          between truth and falsehood. Hermogenes is very ready to throw aside
  8 Intro|           views are not like those of Hermogenes, hastily taken up, but are
  9 Intro|            respectively propounded by Hermogenes, Socrates, Cratylus, may
 10 Intro|             answer to the question of Hermogenes, which is evidently the
 11 Intro|               explanation of the name Hermogenes, either as ‘not being in
 12 Intro|       etymologists. The simplicity of Hermogenes, who is ready to believe
 13 Intro|         Heracleitean philosopher, and Hermogenes, the brother of Callias,
 14 Intro|            not allow that the name of Hermogenes is equally true. Hermogenes
 15 Intro|           Hermogenes is equally true. Hermogenes asks Socrates to explain
 16 Intro|             When Cratylus denies that Hermogenes is a true name, he supposes
 17 Intro|               and to hear both sides.~Hermogenes is of opinion that there
 18 Intro|               be true or false. Would Hermogenes maintain that anybody may
 19 Intro|              the time of giving them? Hermogenes replies that this is the
 20 Intro|     Protagoras, that what appears is? Hermogenes has always been puzzled
 21 Intro|         letters is not the easy task, Hermogenes, which you imagine.~‘I should
 22 Intro|       difficult question.’ O, my dear Hermogenes, I believe that there was
 23 Intro|            goggulon. That is my view, Hermogenes, of the correctness of names;
 24 Intro|           some account of his theory. Hermogenes and himself are mere sciolists,
 25 Intro|               asked about the name of Hermogenes, who is acknowledged to
 26 Intro|              Hail, Athenian Stranger, Hermogenes! would these words be true
 27 Intro|               must remind you of what Hermogenes and I were saying about
 28 Intro|               compelled to admit with Hermogenes in Plato and with Horace
 29 Text |               THE DIALOGUE: Socrates, Hermogenes, Cratylus.~HERMOGENES: Suppose
 30 Text |       Socrates, Hermogenes, Cratylus.~HERMOGENES: Suppose that we make Socrates
 31 Text |              CRATYLUS: If you please.~HERMOGENES: I should explain to you,
 32 Text |            the world were to call you Hermogenes, that would not be your
 33 Text |               your name is not really Hermogenes, I suspect that he is only
 34 Text |             we have heard both sides.~HERMOGENES: I have often talked over
 35 Text |            say that you may be right, Hermogenes: let us see;—Your meaning
 36 Text |            anybody agrees to call it?~HERMOGENES: That is my notion.~SOCRATES:
 37 Text |              an individual or a city?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Well, now,
 38 Text |          world:—that is your meaning?~HERMOGENES: He would, according to
 39 Text |             words a true and a false?~HERMOGENES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And
 40 Text |               and false propositions?~HERMOGENES: To be sure.~SOCRATES: And
 41 Text |               says that which is not?~HERMOGENES: Yes; what other answer
 42 Text |            there is a true and false?~HERMOGENES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: But
 43 Text |             and are the parts untrue?~HERMOGENES: No; the parts are true
 44 Text |          smaller ones, or every part?~HERMOGENES: I should say that every
 45 Text |             part smaller than a name?~HERMOGENES: No; that is the smallest.~
 46 Text |              of the true proposition?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Yes, and
 47 Text |              a true part, as you say.~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And is not
 48 Text |           falsehood also a falsehood?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then, if
 49 Text |          names may be true and false?~HERMOGENES: So we must infer.~SOCRATES:
 50 Text |               affirms to be the name?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And will
 51 Text |            the time of uttering them?~HERMOGENES: Yes, Socrates, I can conceive
 52 Text |          SOCRATES: But would you say, Hermogenes, that the things differ
 53 Text |       permanent essence of their own?~HERMOGENES: There have been times,
 54 Text |              such thing as a bad man?~HERMOGENES: No, indeed; but I have
 55 Text |             found any very good ones?~HERMOGENES: Not many.~SOCRATES: Still
 56 Text |            Still you have found them?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And would
 57 Text |              Would that be your view?~HERMOGENES: It would.~SOCRATES: But
 58 Text |               and some of us foolish?~HERMOGENES: Impossible.~SOCRATES: And
 59 Text |        reality be wiser than another.~HERMOGENES: He cannot.~SOCRATES: Nor
 60 Text |              to be attributed to all.~HERMOGENES: There cannot.~SOCRATES:
 61 Text |        relation prescribed by nature.~HERMOGENES: I think, Socrates, that
 62 Text |        actions also a class of being?~HERMOGENES: Yes, the actions are real
 63 Text |              and be of no use at all.~HERMOGENES: I should say that the natural
 64 Text |               the natural instrument.~HERMOGENES: True.~SOCRATES: And this
 65 Text |            holds good of all actions?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And speech
 66 Text |           speech is a kind of action?~HERMOGENES: True.~SOCRATES: And will
 67 Text |          result in error and failure.~HERMOGENES: I quite agree with you.~
 68 Text |               giving names men speak.~HERMOGENES: That is true.~SOCRATES:
 69 Text |         naming also a sort of action?~HERMOGENES: True.~SOCRATES: And we
 70 Text |          special nature of their own?~HERMOGENES: Precisely.~SOCRATES: Then
 71 Text |           shall we name with success.~HERMOGENES: I agree.~SOCRATES: But
 72 Text |             to be cut with something?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And that
 73 Text |               pierced with something?~HERMOGENES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And
 74 Text |              be named with something?~HERMOGENES: True.~SOCRATES: What is
 75 Text |            that with which we pierce?~HERMOGENES: An awl.~SOCRATES: And with
 76 Text |              And with which we weave?~HERMOGENES: A shuttle.~SOCRATES: And
 77 Text |               And with which we name?~HERMOGENES: A name.~SOCRATES: Very
 78 Text |              a name is an instrument?~HERMOGENES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Suppose
 79 Text |                A weaving instrument.’~HERMOGENES: Well.~SOCRATES: And I ask
 80 Text |               the warp from the woof.~HERMOGENES: Very true.~SOCRATES: And
 81 Text |               instruments in general?~HERMOGENES: To be sure.~SOCRATES: And
 82 Text |           what do we do when we name?~HERMOGENES: I cannot say.~SOCRATES:
 83 Text |           according to their natures?~HERMOGENES: Certainly we do.~SOCRATES:
 84 Text |               the threads of the web.~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And the
 85 Text |             instrument of the weaver?~HERMOGENES: Assuredly.~SOCRATES: Then
 86 Text |            well means like a teacher?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And when
 87 Text |           work will he be using well?~HERMOGENES: That of the carpenter.~
 88 Text |       carpenter, or the skilled only?~HERMOGENES: Only the skilled.~SOCRATES:
 89 Text |           work will he be using well?~HERMOGENES: That of the smith.~SOCRATES:
 90 Text |           smith, or only the skilled?~HERMOGENES: The skilled only.~SOCRATES:
 91 Text |          whose work will he be using?~HERMOGENES: There again I am puzzled.~
 92 Text |               the names which we use?~HERMOGENES: Indeed I cannot.~SOCRATES:
 93 Text |               to you to give us them?~HERMOGENES: Yes, I suppose so.~SOCRATES:
 94 Text |               work of the legislator?~HERMOGENES: I agree.~SOCRATES: And
 95 Text |      legislator, or the skilled only?~HERMOGENES: The skilled only.~SOCRATES:
 96 Text |         skilled only.~SOCRATES: Then, Hermogenes, not every man is able to
 97 Text |              the world is the rarest.~HERMOGENES: True.~SOCRATES: And how
 98 Text |           fitted to act as a shuttle?~HERMOGENES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And
 99 Text |              which he made the other?~HERMOGENES: To the latter, I should
100 Text |            the true or ideal shuttle?~HERMOGENES: I think so.~SOCRATES: And
101 Text |          maker produces in each case.~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And the
102 Text |         nature to their several uses?~HERMOGENES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And
103 Text |              by nature to their uses?~HERMOGENES: True.~SOCRATES: For the
104 Text |               instruments in general.~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then, as
105 Text |               there is no difference.~HERMOGENES: Very true.~SOCRATES: And
106 Text |              country makes no matter.~HERMOGENES: Quite true.~SOCRATES: But
107 Text |            weaver who is to use them?~HERMOGENES: I should say, he who is
108 Text |               being well done or not?~HERMOGENES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And
109 Text |              SOCRATES: And who is he?~HERMOGENES: The player of the lyre.~
110 Text |           will direct the shipwright?~HERMOGENES: The pilot.~SOCRATES: And
111 Text |              not the user be the man?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And this
112 Text |           knows how to ask questions?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And how
113 Text |               And how to answer them?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And him
114 Text |            would call a dialectician?~HERMOGENES: Yes; that would be his
115 Text |            rudder is to be well made.~HERMOGENES: True.~SOCRATES: And the
116 Text |              are to be rightly given?~HERMOGENES: That is true.~SOCRATES:
117 Text |              is true.~SOCRATES: Then, Hermogenes, I should say that this
118 Text |             in letters and syllables.~HERMOGENES: I cannot answer you, Socrates;
119 Text |              names.~SOCRATES: My good Hermogenes, I have none to show. Was
120 Text |               to give a thing a name.~HERMOGENES: Very good.~SOCRATES: And
121 Text |           know, is the next question.~HERMOGENES: Certainly, I care to know.~
122 Text |               SOCRATES: Then reflect.~HERMOGENES: How shall I reflect?~SOCRATES:
123 Text |           about the fitness of names.~HERMOGENES: But how inconsistent should
124 Text |               of Homer and the poets.~HERMOGENES: And where does Homer say
125 Text |           names; do you not think so?~HERMOGENES: Why, of course they call
126 Text |              and men call Scamander.’~HERMOGENES: I remember.~SOCRATES: Well,
127 Text |               to which I refer? (Il.)~HERMOGENES: I do.~SOCRATES: Let me
128 Text |              Astyanax or Scamandrius?~HERMOGENES: I do not know.~SOCRATES:
129 Text |         likely to give correct names?~HERMOGENES: I should say the wise,
130 Text |          taken as a class, the wiser?~HERMOGENES: I should say, the men.~
131 Text |            given to him by the women.~HERMOGENES: That may be inferred.~SOCRATES:
132 Text |               wiser than their wives?~HERMOGENES: To be sure.~SOCRATES: Then
133 Text |             the boy than Scamandrius?~HERMOGENES: Clearly.~SOCRATES: And
134 Text |            saving, as Homer observes.~HERMOGENES: I see.~SOCRATES: Why, Hermogenes,
135 Text |     HERMOGENES: I see.~SOCRATES: Why, Hermogenes, I do not as yet see myself;
136 Text |               see myself; and do you?~HERMOGENES: No, indeed; not I.~SOCRATES:
137 Text |            also give Hector his name?~HERMOGENES: What of that?~SOCRATES:
138 Text |             the correctness of names.~HERMOGENES: I assure you that I think
139 Text |         things. Do you agree with me?~HERMOGENES: Yes, I agree.~SOCRATES:
140 Text |               name and appears in it.~HERMOGENES: What do you mean?~SOCRATES:
141 Text |               give the letters names.~HERMOGENES: I believe you are right.~
142 Text |        meaning. Would you not say so?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: The same
143 Text |              in the course of nature?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And what
144 Text |               a horse foaling a calf.~HERMOGENES: Quite true.~SOCRATES: Then
145 Text |         should be called irreligious?~HERMOGENES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: He
146 Text |             have an opposite meaning.~HERMOGENES: Certainly, Socrates.~SOCRATES:
147 Text |            Socrates.~SOCRATES: Again, Hermogenes, there is Orestes (the man
148 Text |        wildness of his hero’s nature.~HERMOGENES: That is very likely, Socrates.~
149 Text |             also according to nature.~HERMOGENES: Clearly.~SOCRATES: Yes,
150 Text |               only (o ta pelas oron).~HERMOGENES: How so?~SOCRATES: Because,
151 Text |        traditions about him are true.~HERMOGENES: And what are the traditions?~
152 Text |             not hold good to the end.~HERMOGENES: You seem to me, Socrates,
153 Text |               oracles.~SOCRATES: Yes, Hermogenes, and I believe that I caught
154 Text |           purifications of this sort.~HERMOGENES: With all my heart; for
155 Text |    occasionally in giving them names.~HERMOGENES: I think so, Socrates.~SOCRATES:
156 Text |               are rightly named Gods?~HERMOGENES: Yes, that will be well.~
157 Text |             Do you think that likely?~HERMOGENES: I think it very likely
158 Text |           What shall follow the Gods?~HERMOGENES: Must not demons and heroes
159 Text |               me if my view is right.~HERMOGENES: Let me hear.~SOCRATES:
160 Text |             how Hesiod uses the word?~HERMOGENES: I do not.~SOCRATES: Do
161 Text |           race of men who came first?~HERMOGENES: Yes, I do.~SOCRATES: He
162 Text |              Hesiod, Works and Days.)~HERMOGENES: What is the inference?~
163 Text |            that we are the iron race.~HERMOGENES: That is true.~SOCRATES:
164 Text |            said to be of golden race?~HERMOGENES: Very likely.~SOCRATES:
165 Text |            And are not the good wise?~HERMOGENES: Yes, they are wise.~SOCRATES:
166 Text |               rightly called a demon.~HERMOGENES: Then I rather think that
167 Text |               they were born of love.~HERMOGENES: What do you mean?~SOCRATES:
168 Text |              the heroes are demigods?~HERMOGENES: What then?~SOCRATES: All
169 Text |               that is more difficult.~HERMOGENES: No, I cannot; and I would
170 Text |             inspiration of Euthyphro.~HERMOGENES: Of course.~SOCRATES: Your
171 Text |               the place of the grave.~HERMOGENES: That is true.~SOCRATES:
172 Text |              been changed to a grave.~HERMOGENES: What do you mean?~SOCRATES:
173 Text |            meaning anathron a opopen.~HERMOGENES: May I ask you to examine
174 Text |         curious?~SOCRATES: Certainly.~HERMOGENES: I will take that which
175 Text |            body?~SOCRATES: Of course.~HERMOGENES: Let us endeavour to analyze
176 Text |              of the word soma (body)?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: If I am
177 Text |           What do you say to another?~HERMOGENES: Let me hear.~SOCRATES:
178 Text |               What else but the soul?~HERMOGENES: Just that.~SOCRATES: And
179 Text |              principle of all things?~HERMOGENES: Yes; I do.~SOCRATES: Then
180 Text |             refined away into psuche.~HERMOGENES: Certainly; and this derivation
181 Text |             true meaning of the name.~HERMOGENES: But what shall we say of
182 Text |             You mean soma (the body).~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: That may
183 Text |             the word need be changed.~HERMOGENES: I think, Socrates, that
184 Text |                SOCRATES: Yes, indeed, Hermogenes; and there is one excellent
185 Text |             there can be small blame.~HERMOGENES: I think, Socrates, that
186 Text |          Hestia, according to custom?~HERMOGENES: Yes, that will be very
187 Text |             who gave the name Hestia?~HERMOGENES: That is another and certainly
188 Text |           question.~SOCRATES: My dear Hermogenes, the first imposers of names
189 Text |               had a good deal to say.~HERMOGENES: Well, and what of them?~
190 Text |               talking great nonsense.~HERMOGENES: Why, Socrates?~SOCRATES:
191 Text |          discovered a hive of wisdom.~HERMOGENES: Of what nature?~SOCRATES:
192 Text |        ridiculous, and yet plausible.~HERMOGENES: How plausible?~SOCRATES:
193 Text |               which Homer also spoke.~HERMOGENES: How do you mean?~SOCRATES:
194 Text |            into the same water twice.~HERMOGENES: That is true.~SOCRATES:
195 Text |             direction of Heracleitus.~HERMOGENES: I think that there is something
196 Text |           made up of these two words.~HERMOGENES: The idea is ingenious,
197 Text |               of Zeus we have spoken.~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then let
198 Text |            that or by his other name.~HERMOGENES: By all means.~SOCRATES:
199 Text |           call the God Pluto instead.~HERMOGENES: And what is the true derivation?~
200 Text |            the God really correspond.~HERMOGENES: Why, how is that?~SOCRATES:
201 Text |            spot,—desire or necessity?~HERMOGENES: Desire, Socrates, is stronger
202 Text |              the strongest of chains?~HERMOGENES: Assuredly they would.~SOCRATES:
203 Text |          infer, and not by necessity?~HERMOGENES: That is clear.~SOCRATES:
204 Text |               there are many desires?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And therefore
205 Text |          chain is to be the greatest?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And is any
206 Text |             associating with another?~HERMOGENES: Certainly not.~SOCRATES:
207 Text |               is not that the reason, Hermogenes, why no one, who has been
208 Text |             his own far-famed chains.~HERMOGENES: There is a deal of truth
209 Text |               you say.~SOCRATES: Yes, Hermogenes, and the legislator called
210 Text |         eidenai) of all noble things.~HERMOGENES: Very good; and what do
211 Text |               you remarked this fact?~HERMOGENES: To be sure I have, and
212 Text |              of the power of the God.~HERMOGENES: How so?~SOCRATES: I will
213 Text |            and medicine, and archery.~HERMOGENES: That must be a strange
214 Text |           pure both in body and soul.~HERMOGENES: Very true.~SOCRATES: And
215 Text |         absolver from all impurities?~HERMOGENES: Very true.~SOCRATES: Then
216 Text |              or all of these reasons.~HERMOGENES: What is the meaning of
217 Text |              the authority of Hesiod.~HERMOGENES: Still there remains Athene,
218 Text |            not likely to forget them.~HERMOGENES: No, indeed.~SOCRATES: There
219 Text |          other appellation of Athene.~HERMOGENES: What other appellation?~
220 Text |         SOCRATES: We call her Pallas.~HERMOGENES: To be sure.~SOCRATES: And
221 Text |        shaking (pallein), or dancing.~HERMOGENES: That is quite true.~SOCRATES:
222 Text |       explanation of the name Pallas?~HERMOGENES: Yes; but what do you say
223 Text |               name?~SOCRATES: Athene?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: That is
224 Text |                and called her Athene.~HERMOGENES: But what do you say of
225 Text |             of light (Phaeos istora)?~HERMOGENES: Surely.~SOCRATES: Ephaistos
226 Text |           that is obvious to anybody.~HERMOGENES: That is very probable,
227 Text |               the derivation of Ares.~HERMOGENES: What is Ares?~SOCRATES:
228 Text |        appropriate to the God of war.~HERMOGENES: Very true.~SOCRATES: And
229 Text |              of Euthyphro can prance.~HERMOGENES: Only one more God! I should
230 Text |          because she was a messenger.~HERMOGENES: Then I am very sure that
231 Text |          double-formed son of Hermes.~HERMOGENES: How do you make that out?~
232 Text |            two forms, true and false?~HERMOGENES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Is
233 Text |         tragedy is the place of them?~HERMOGENES: Very true.~SOCRATES: Then
234 Text |              as I was saying, my dear Hermogenes, let us get away from the
235 Text |               get away from the Gods.~HERMOGENES: From these sort of Gods,
236 Text |              wish, I will not refuse.~HERMOGENES: You will oblige me.~SOCRATES:
237 Text |              mentioned first—the sun?~HERMOGENES: Very good.~SOCRATES: The
238 Text |             productions of the earth.~HERMOGENES: But what is selene (the
239 Text |           unfortunate for Anaxagoras.~HERMOGENES: How so?~SOCRATES: The word
240 Text |               her light from the sun.~HERMOGENES: Why do you say so?~SOCRATES:
241 Text |           have much the same meaning?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: This light
242 Text |          light of the previous month.~HERMOGENES: Very true.~SOCRATES: The
243 Text |         unfrequently called selanaia.~HERMOGENES: True.~SOCRATES: And as
244 Text |               shape becomes selanaia.~HERMOGENES: A real dithyrambic sort
245 Text |              eyes (anastrephein opa).~HERMOGENES: What do you say of pur (
246 Text |              difficulty of this sort.~HERMOGENES: What is it?~SOCRATES: I
247 Text |               the meaning of the pur?~HERMOGENES: Indeed I cannot.~SOCRATES:
248 Text |             often borrowed from them.~HERMOGENES: What is the inference?~
249 Text |         rather likely to be at fault.~HERMOGENES: Yes, certainly.~SOCRATES:
250 Text |                 and many other words.~HERMOGENES: That is true.~SOCRATES:
251 Text |              pur and udor. Aer (air), Hermogenes, may be explained as the
252 Text |           gegaasi means gegennesthai.~HERMOGENES: Good.~SOCRATES: What shall
253 Text |              What shall we take next?~HERMOGENES: There are orai (the seasons),
254 Text |              of a single proposition.~HERMOGENES: Indeed, Socrates, you make
255 Text |         SOCRATES: I am run away with.~HERMOGENES: Very true.~SOCRATES: But
256 Text |               yet at my utmost speed.~HERMOGENES: I should like very much
257 Text |              words, as you call them?~HERMOGENES: Surely, we must not leave
258 Text |               making this reflection.~HERMOGENES: How is that, Socrates?~
259 Text |             is most surely indicated.~HERMOGENES: No, indeed, I never thought
260 Text |            name indicative of motion.~HERMOGENES: What was the name?~SOCRATES:
261 Text |             nature of justice; but I, Hermogenes, being an enthusiastic disciple,
262 Text |               which I have mentioned.~HERMOGENES: I think, Socrates, that
263 Text |           SOCRATES: And not the rest?~HERMOGENES: Hardly.~SOCRATES: Well,
264 Text |         things flourish (tethelenai).~HERMOGENES: That is surely probable.~
265 Text |           have still to be explained.~HERMOGENES: True.~SOCRATES: There is
266 Text |            techne (art), for example.~HERMOGENES: Very true.~SOCRATES: That
267 Text |               between the nu and eta.~HERMOGENES: That is a very shabby etymology.~
268 Text |             there are other examples.~HERMOGENES: That is quite true, Socrates.~
269 Text |             be adapted to any object.~HERMOGENES: True.~SOCRATES: Yes, that
270 Text |           moderation and probability.~HERMOGENES: Such is my desire.~SOCRATES:
271 Text |              SOCRATES: And mine, too, Hermogenes. But do not be too much
272 Text |             then arete is also right.~HERMOGENES: But what is the meaning
273 Text |               to my ingenious device.~HERMOGENES: What device?~SOCRATES:
274 Text |               give to this word also.~HERMOGENES: Very likely you are right;
275 Text |               together into aischron.~HERMOGENES: But what do you say of
276 Text |         omicron upsilon into omicron.~HERMOGENES: What do you mean?~SOCRATES:
277 Text |               appears to denote mind.~HERMOGENES: How so?~SOCRATES: Let me
278 Text |           imposes the name the cause?~HERMOGENES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And
279 Text |                or of men, or of both?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Is not mind
280 Text |           mind the beautiful (kalon)?~HERMOGENES: That is evident.~SOCRATES:
281 Text |          other works worthy of blame?~HERMOGENES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Physic
282 Text |             the works of a carpenter?~HERMOGENES: Exactly.~SOCRATES: And
283 Text |             does the works of beauty?~HERMOGENES: Of course.~SOCRATES: And
284 Text |       principle we affirm to be mind?~HERMOGENES: Very true.~SOCRATES: Then
285 Text |            speak of as the beautiful?~HERMOGENES: That is evident.~SOCRATES:
286 Text |              more names remain to us?~HERMOGENES: There are the words which
287 Text |         carried round with the world.~HERMOGENES: That is probable.~SOCRATES:
288 Text |               nu, and so made kerdos.~HERMOGENES: Well, but what is lusiteloun (
289 Text |     profitable)?~SOCRATES: I suppose, Hermogenes, that people do not mean
290 Text |              has a foreign character.~HERMOGENES: And what do you say of
291 Text |              think that I need speak.~HERMOGENES: Which are they?~SOCRATES:
292 Text | unadvantageous), akerdes (ungainful).~HERMOGENES: True.~SOCRATES: I would
293 Text |         harmful), zemiodes (hurtful).~HERMOGENES: Good.~SOCRATES: The word
294 Text |               improved into blaberon.~HERMOGENES: You bring out curious results,
295 Text |               the makers of the name, Hermogenes; not mine.~HERMOGENES: Very
296 Text |           name, Hermogenes; not mine.~HERMOGENES: Very true; but what is
297 Text |              zemiodes?—let me remark, Hermogenes, how right I was in saying
298 Text |        language is clearly indicated.~HERMOGENES: What do you mean?~SOCRATES:
299 Text |            the grandeur of the sound.~HERMOGENES: How do you mean?~SOCRATES:
300 Text |          called by us emera (long e).~HERMOGENES: That is true.~SOCRATES:
301 Text |           imera, from imeros, desire.~HERMOGENES: Clearly.~SOCRATES: But
302 Text |             emera different accents).~HERMOGENES: Such is my view.~SOCRATES:
303 Text |            said duogon and not zugon?~HERMOGENES: They did so.~SOCRATES:
304 Text |          examples of similar changes.~HERMOGENES: There are.~SOCRATES: Proceeding
305 Text |              own brother of blaberon.~HERMOGENES: Yes, Socrates; that is
306 Text |            binds motion (dounti ion).~HERMOGENES: What do you say of edone (
307 Text |             SOCRATES: I do not think, Hermogenes, that there is any great
308 Text |             not give me another word?~HERMOGENES: What do you think of doxa (
309 Text |               or proposal, or object.~HERMOGENES: You are quickening your
310 Text |        persevere with your questions.~HERMOGENES: Well, then, let me ask
311 Text |             word maiesthai (to seek)?~HERMOGENES: Yes;—meaning the same as
312 Text |         oukion or ouki on = ouk ion).~HERMOGENES: You have hammered away
313 Text |              how should I answer him?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: One way
314 Text |               been already suggested.~HERMOGENES: What way?~SOCRATES: To
315 Text |             to be a barbarous tongue.~HERMOGENES: Very likely.~SOCRATES:
316 Text |               the enquiry in despair.~HERMOGENES: Very true.~SOCRATES: And
317 Text |              be resolved any further.~HERMOGENES: I believe you to be in
318 Text |         according to some new method?~HERMOGENES: Very likely.~SOCRATES:
319 Text |           likely.~SOCRATES: Quite so, Hermogenes; all that has preceded would
320 Text |           principle of primary names.~HERMOGENES: Let me hear, and I will
321 Text |             is no difference in them.~HERMOGENES: Certainly not.~SOCRATES:
322 Text |        indicate the nature of things.~HERMOGENES: Of course.~SOCRATES: And
323 Text |         implied in their being names.~HERMOGENES: Surely.~SOCRATES: But the
324 Text |        significance from the primary.~HERMOGENES: That is evident.~SOCRATES:
325 Text |             and the rest of the body?~HERMOGENES: There would be no choice,
326 Text |             like as we could to them.~HERMOGENES: I do not see that we could
327 Text |           body ever express anything.~HERMOGENES: Very true.~SOCRATES: And
328 Text |             which we want to express.~HERMOGENES: It must be so, I think.~
329 Text |           imitator names or imitates?~HERMOGENES: I think so.~SOCRATES: Nay,
330 Text |             reached the truth as yet.~HERMOGENES: Why not?~SOCRATES: Because
331 Text |              that which they imitate.~HERMOGENES: Quite true.~SOCRATES: Then
332 Text |           right in what I was saying?~HERMOGENES: In my opinion, no. But
333 Text |         figure, and many have colour?~HERMOGENES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: But
334 Text |           them are music and drawing?~HERMOGENES: True.~SOCRATES: Again,
335 Text |              said to have an essence?~HERMOGENES: I should think so.~SOCRATES:
336 Text |             the nature of each thing?~HERMOGENES: Quite so.~SOCRATES: The
337 Text |              this imitator be called?~HERMOGENES: I imagine, Socrates, that
338 Text |           imitate the essence or not.~HERMOGENES: Very good.~SOCRATES: But
339 Text |           names, or are there others?~HERMOGENES: There must be others.~SOCRATES:
340 Text |             consideration of rhythms?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Must we
341 Text |          composition of them, my dear Hermogenes, will be a sorry piece of
342 Text |               in the wrong direction.~HERMOGENES: That, Socrates, I can quite
343 Text |            certain that I should not.~HERMOGENES: Much less am I likely to
344 Text |               can. What do you think?~HERMOGENES: I very much approve.~SOCRATES:
345 Text |                may appear ridiculous, Hermogenes, but it cannot be avoided—
346 Text |              suppose this to be true?~HERMOGENES: Certainly, Socrates.~SOCRATES:
347 Text |            better which you may have.~HERMOGENES: Fear not; I will do my
348 Text |               signs. That is my view, Hermogenes, of the truth of names;
349 Text |             Cratylus has more to say.~HERMOGENES: But, Socrates, as I was
350 Text |           CRATYLUS: Well, but surely, Hermogenes, you do not suppose that
351 Text |             the very greatest of all.~HERMOGENES: No, indeed; but, as Hesiod
352 Text |           Cratylus, in the view which Hermogenes and myself have worked out;
353 Text |             to the name of our friend Hermogenes, which was mentioned before:—
354 Text |         CRATYLUS: I should reply that Hermogenes is not his name at all,
355 Text |             if a man were to call him Hermogenes, would he not be even speaking
356 Text |              whether you can call him Hermogenes, if he is not.~CRATYLUS:
357 Text |              Hail, Athenian stranger, Hermogenes, son of Smicrion’—these
358 Text |            you but only to our friend Hermogenes, or perhaps to nobody at
359 Text |             remember, was remarked by Hermogenes and myself in the particular
360 Text |              you prefer the notion of Hermogenes and of many others, who
361 Text |           invite you to consider what Hermogenes and I were saying about
362 Text |            rho, as you were saying to Hermogenes and in my opinion rightly,
363 Text |        dragging in of resemblance, as Hermogenes says, is a shabby thing,
364 Text |             as you are intending, and Hermogenes shall set you on your way.~


Phaedo
    Part
365 Intro|               There are present also, Hermogenes, from whom Xenophon derived
366 Intro|       Introduction to the Theaetetus, Hermogenes has already appeared in
367 Text |      Critobulus and his father Crito, Hermogenes, Epigenes, Aeschines, Antisthenes;