Charmides
    Part
  1 PreS |        Thrasymachus, the anger of Callicles and Anytus, the patronizing


Gorgias
    Part
  2 Intro| characters of Gorgias, Polus, and Callicles respectively correspond;
  3 Intro|   sarcastic in his encounter with Callicles. In the first division the
  4 Intro|         the dialogue closes. Then Callicles appears on the scene, at
  5 Intro|     flatters them, and he exhorts Callicles to choose the higher. The
  6 Intro|      refute,’ and very eager that Callicles and Socrates should have
  7 Intro|           him has fairly run out,~Callicles, in whose house they are
  8 Intro|          been the name instead of Callicles, about whom we know nothing
  9 Intro|        now the combat deepens. In Callicles, far more than in any sophist
 10 Intro|            as Chaerephon remarks. Callicles soon loses his temper, but
 11 Intro|       introduced. He is called by Callicles a popular declaimer, and
 12 Intro|       pleases’ (compare Protag.). Callicles exhibits great ability in
 13 Intro|       bent’ by the worldliness of Callicles. But he is also more deeply
 14 Intro|          position of Socrates and Callicles will be reversed; all those
 15 Intro|      unfit for ears polite’ which Callicles has prophesied as likely
 16 Intro|      wiser man, for he as well as Callicles is in a state of perplexity
 17 Intro|       disciple, Chaerephon, meets Callicles in the streets of Athens.
 18 Intro| concerning the nature of his art. Callicles proposes that they shall
 19 Intro|         cheer, and Chaerephon and Callicles exhort them to proceed.
 20 Intro|       been discovered by us.~Here Callicles, who has been listening
 21 Intro|        exists between himself and Callicles, for both of them are lovers,
 22 Intro|          of loves; the beloved of Callicles are the Athenian Demos and
 23 Intro|    philosophy. The peculiarity of Callicles is that he can never contradict
 24 Intro|         ever the same, ever true. Callicles must refute her, or he will
 25 Intro|        discord of musical sounds.~Callicles answers, that Gorgias was
 26 Intro|           but not by nature, says Callicles. And Socrates is always
 27 Intro|        professes to have found in Callicles the philosopher’s touchstone;
 28 Intro|           must be the very truth. Callicles has all the three qualities
 29 Intro|        contradict themselves. But Callicles is well-educated; and he
 30 Intro|        may have fallen, and which Callicles may point out. But he would
 31 Intro|       talk.’~Socrates compliments Callicles on his frankness in saying
 32 Intro|        are not happy. ‘Why,’ says Callicles, ‘if they were, stones and
 33 Intro|         are abundantly satisfied? Callicles is indignant at the introduction
 34 Intro|           pleasure and good. Will Callicles still maintain this? ‘Yes,
 35 Intro|        seriousness on the part of Callicles reassures him, and they
 36 Intro|       cannot be the same as good.~Callicles has already lost his temper,
 37 Intro|      brave or may be even better.~Callicles endeavours now to avert
 38 Intro|         for the sake of the good.~Callicles assents to this, and Socrates,
 39 Intro|  interests of soul and body. Does Callicles agree to this division?
 40 Intro|           agree to this division? Callicles will agree to anything,
 41 Intro|         as if they were children.~Callicles replies, that this is only
 42 Intro|         whom you find the latter? Callicles admits that there are none
 43 Intro|     unrestrained indulgence which Callicles was recently approving.~
 44 Intro|          recently approving.~Here Callicles, who had been with difficulty
 45 Intro|           had hoped to have given Callicles an ‘Amphion’ in return for
 46 Intro|          same time, he hopes that Callicles will correct him, if he
 47 Intro|          not the same as the good—Callicles and I are agreed about that,—
 48 Intro|           earth, of gods and men. Callicles has never discovered the
 49 Intro|           of the tyrant,’ rejoins Callicles, ‘will kill any one who
 50 Intro|           with the office? And as Callicles is about to enter public
 51 Intro|      physicians. In this respect, Callicles, you are like them; you
 52 Intro|        modes of serving the state Callicles invites him:—‘to the inferior
 53 Intro|           a good condition?’ Yes, Callicles, if he have the true self-help,
 54 Intro|          in the way to which you, Callicles, invite us; for that way
 55 Intro|  discernible in his argument with Callicles.~(2) Although Socrates professes
 56 Intro|           is supposed not only by Callicles, but by the rest of mankind,
 57 Text |          PERSONS OF THE DIALOGUE: Callicles, Socrates, Chaerephon, Gorgias,
 58 Text |        Polus.~SCENE: The house of Callicles.~CALLICLES: The wise man,
 59 Text |           The house of Callicles.~CALLICLES: The wise man, as the proverb
 60 Text |          are we late for a feast?~CALLICLES: Yes, and a delightful feast;
 61 Text |     SOCRATES: It is not my fault, Callicles; our friend Chaerephon is
 62 Text |       prefer, at some other time.~CALLICLES: What is the matter, Chaerephon—
 63 Text |          our intention in coming.~CALLICLES: Come into my house, then;
 64 Text |         you.~SOCRATES: Very good, Callicles; but will he answer our
 65 Text |    exhibition to some other time.~CALLICLES: There is nothing like asking
 66 Text |            Gorgias, is our friend Callicles right in saying that you
 67 Text |           and so ably maintained.~CALLICLES: By the gods, Chaerephon,
 68 Text |        SOCRATES: I may truly say, Callicles, that I am willing, if Gorgias
 69 Text |          the previous discussion.~CALLICLES: Tell me, Chaerephon, is
 70 Text |         CHAEREPHON: I should say, Callicles, that he is in most profound
 71 Text |         but you may well ask him.~CALLICLES: By the gods, and I will.
 72 Text |          to be doing?~SOCRATES: O Callicles, if there were not some
 73 Text |        god of Egypt, I declare, O Callicles, that Callicles will never
 74 Text |        declare, O Callicles, that Callicles will never be at one with
 75 Text |            and contradict myself.~CALLICLES: O Socrates, you are a regular
 76 Text |         do.~SOCRATES: If my soul, Callicles, were made of gold, should
 77 Text |      other test was needed by me.~CALLICLES: What is your meaning, Socrates?~
 78 Text |           the desired touchstone.~CALLICLES: Why?~SOCRATES: Because
 79 Text |        think so? I know that you, Callicles, and Tisander of Aphidnae,
 80 Text |       there is no nobler enquiry, Callicles, than that which you censure
 81 Text |         right in my recollection?~CALLICLES: Yes; that is what I was
 82 Text |   stronger the same or different?~CALLICLES: I say unequivocally that
 83 Text |       saying, they make the laws?~CALLICLES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Then
 84 Text |         the laws of the superior?~CALLICLES: Very true.~SOCRATES: Then
 85 Text |       better, as you were saying?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And since
 86 Text |          them are by nature good?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And are
 87 Text |           that so or not? Answer, Callicles, and let no modesty be found
 88 Text |           competent an authority.~CALLICLES: Yes; the opinion of the
 89 Text |         argument is about custom?~CALLICLES: This man will never cease
 90 Text |   philosopher, is that your line?~CALLICLES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: I
 91 Text |         SOCRATES: I was thinking, Callicles, that something of the kind
 92 Text |        have to run away from you.~CALLICLES: You are ironical.~SOCRATES:
 93 Text |           No, by the hero Zethus, Callicles, by whose aid you were just
 94 Text |          you mean, by the better?~CALLICLES: I mean the more excellent.~
 95 Text |           wiser, or if not, whom?~CALLICLES: Most assuredly, I do mean
 96 Text |     superior to the ten thousand?~CALLICLES: Yes; that is what I mean,
 97 Text |           in this matter of food?~CALLICLES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Either,
 98 Text |        the smallest share of all, Callicles:—am I not right, my friend?~
 99 Text |           I not right, my friend?~CALLICLES: You talk about meats and
100 Text |     better? Answer ‘Yes’ or ‘No.’~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And ought
101 Text |           to have a larger share?~CALLICLES: Not of meats and drinks.~
102 Text |          best and finest of them?~CALLICLES: Fudge about coats!~SOCRATES:
103 Text |          greatest number of them?~CALLICLES: Fudge about shoes! What
104 Text |        possible for his own land?~CALLICLES: How you go on, always talking
105 Text |          Socrates!~SOCRATES: Yes, Callicles, and also about the same
106 Text |       also about the same things.~CALLICLES: Yes, by the Gods, you are
107 Text |        suggestion, nor offer one?~CALLICLES: I have already told you.
108 Text |           See now, most excellent Callicles, how different my charge
109 Text |          in what they are better?~CALLICLES: I have already told you
110 Text |       than themselves, my friend?~CALLICLES: What do you mean?~SOCRATES:
111 Text |          required to rule others?~CALLICLES: What do you mean by his ‘
112 Text |           pleasures and passions.~CALLICLES: What innocence! you mean
113 Text |       know that to be my meaning.~CALLICLES: Quite so, Socrates; and
114 Text |         There is a noble freedom, Callicles, in your way of approaching
115 Text |          and that this is virtue?~CALLICLES: Yes; I do.~SOCRATES: Then
116 Text |           truly said to be happy?~CALLICLES: No indeed, for then stones
117 Text |          of your way of thinking, Callicles, for he declares, that of
118 Text |           the same opinion still?~CALLICLES: The latter, Socrates, is
119 Text |        the opposite is the truth?~CALLICLES: You do not convince me,
120 Text |         for the liquid to escape.~CALLICLES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: The
121 Text |          be hungering and eating?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And he is
122 Text |           thirsting and drinking?~CALLICLES: Yes, that is what I mean;
123 Text |         your notion of happiness?~CALLICLES: What a strange being you
124 Text |    SOCRATES: That was the reason, Callicles, why I scared Polus and
125 Text |          now, answer my question.~CALLICLES: I answer, that even the
126 Text |    pleasantly, then also happily?~CALLICLES: To be sure.~SOCRATES: But
127 Text |           the question? And here, Callicles, I would have you consider
128 Text |         enough of what they want?~CALLICLES: Are you not ashamed, Socrates,
129 Text |     pleasure which is not a good?~CALLICLES: Well, then, for the sake
130 Text |           the original agreement, Callicles, and will no longer be a
131 Text |    contrary to your real opinion.~CALLICLES: Why, that is what you are
132 Text |          follow, and many others.~CALLICLES: That, Socrates, is only
133 Text |    opinion.~SOCRATES: And do you, Callicles, seriously maintain what
134 Text |     maintain what you are saying?~CALLICLES: Indeed I do.~SOCRATES:
135 Text |        proceed with the argument?~CALLICLES: By all means. (Or, ‘I am
136 Text |         you would call knowledge?~CALLICLES: There is.~SOCRATES: And
137 Text |        courage implied knowledge?~CALLICLES: I was.~SOCRATES: And you
138 Text |       different from one another?~CALLICLES: Certainly I was.~SOCRATES:
139 Text |        the same, or not the same?~CALLICLES: Not the same, O man of
140 Text |           differed from pleasure?~CALLICLES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Well,
141 Text |        then, let us remember that Callicles, the Acharnian, says that
142 Text |        another, or with the good.~CALLICLES: And what does our friend
143 Text |          not assent; neither will Callicles, when he sees himself truly.
144 Text |        are opposed to each other?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And if they
145 Text |           both, at the same time?~CALLICLES: What do you mean?~SOCRATES:
146 Text |       which is called ophthalmia?~CALLICLES: To be sure.~SOCRATES: But
147 Text |           sound at the same time?~CALLICLES: Certainly not.~SOCRATES:
148 Text |        rid of them both together?~CALLICLES: Certainly not.~SOCRATES:
149 Text |         be marvellous and absurd?~CALLICLES: Very.~SOCRATES: I suppose
150 Text |        gets rid of them in turns?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And he may
151 Text |         in the same way, by fits?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Or swiftness
152 Text |           swiftness and slowness?~CALLICLES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And
153 Text |  alternation? (Compare Republic.)~CALLICLES: Certainly he has.~SOCRATES:
154 Text |     answer without consideration.~CALLICLES: I entirely agree.~SOCRATES:
155 Text |          was pleasant or painful?~CALLICLES: I said painful, but that
156 Text |          painful: am I not right?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And thirst,
157 Text |          thirst, too, is painful?~CALLICLES: Yes, very.~SOCRATES: Need
158 Text |           or desires are painful?~CALLICLES: I agree, and therefore
159 Text |         are thirsty, is pleasant?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And in the
160 Text |            thirsty’ implies pain?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And the
161 Text |         satisfaction of the want?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: There is
162 Text |          is pleasure in drinking?~CALLICLES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: When
163 Text |            SOCRATES: And in pain?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Do you see
164 Text |    consequence: Is not this true?~CALLICLES: It is.~SOCRATES: You said
165 Text |         fortune at the same time?~CALLICLES: Yes, I did.~SOCRATES: But
166 Text |         might also have pleasure?~CALLICLES: Clearly.~SOCRATES: Then
167 Text |         the same as the pleasant?~CALLICLES: I wish I knew, Socrates,
168 Text |        means.~SOCRATES: You know, Callicles, but you affect not to know.~
169 Text |           you affect not to know.~CALLICLES: Well, get on, and don’t
170 Text |        drinking at the same time?~CALLICLES: I do not understand what
171 Text |         are saying.~GORGIAS: Nay, Callicles, answer, if only for our
172 Text |         to hear the argument out.~CALLICLES: Yes, Gorgias, but I must
173 Text |          matter? Your reputation, Callicles, is not at stake. Let Socrates
174 Text |         argue in his own fashion.~CALLICLES: Well, then, Socrates, you
175 Text |       them.~SOCRATES: I envy you, Callicles, for having been initiated
176 Text |      drinking at the same moment?~CALLICLES: True.~SOCRATES: And if
177 Text |      pleasure at the same moment?~CALLICLES: Very true.~SOCRATES: Then
178 Text |      pleasure at the same moment?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: But he does
179 Text |          adhere to what you said?~CALLICLES: Yes, I do; but what is
180 Text |         beauty present with them?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And do you
181 Text |        good—would you not say so?~CALLICLES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And
182 Text |          foolish child rejoicing?~CALLICLES: Yes, I have.~SOCRATES:
183 Text |            And a foolish man too?~CALLICLES: Yes, certainly; but what
184 Text |          if you will only answer.~CALLICLES: Yes, I have.~SOCRATES:
185 Text |           rejoicing or sorrowing?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Which rejoice
186 Text |          the wise or the foolish?~CALLICLES: They are much upon a par,
187 Text |           see a coward in battle?~CALLICLES: To be sure.~SOCRATES: And
188 Text |          the coward or the brave?~CALLICLES: I should say ‘most’ of
189 Text |          only the brave, rejoice?~CALLICLES: Greatly.~SOCRATES: And
190 Text |        foolish; so it would seem?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And are
191 Text |        are the brave also pained?~CALLICLES: Both are pained.~SOCRATES:
192 Text |          are they equally pained?~CALLICLES: I should imagine that the
193 Text |         at the enemy’s departure?~CALLICLES: I dare say.~SOCRATES: Then
194 Text |        and pained than the brave?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: But surely
195 Text |         the cowardly are the bad?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then the
196 Text |         in a nearly equal degree?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then are
197 Text |          pleasure and more pain.)~CALLICLES: I really do not know what
198 Text |       were goods and pains evils?~CALLICLES: Yes, I remember.~SOCRATES:
199 Text |       rejoice—if they do rejoice?~CALLICLES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Then
200 Text |      goods are present with them?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And those
201 Text |         sorrow present with them?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And would
202 Text |          of the presence of evil?~CALLICLES: I should.~SOCRATES: Then
203 Text |       those who are in pain evil?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: The degrees
204 Text |          of pleasure and of pain?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Have the
205 Text |         that the coward has more?~CALLICLES: I should say that he has.~
206 Text |          man we allow to be good?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And the
207 Text |        and the coward to be evil?~CALLICLES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And
208 Text |           he who has joy is good?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And he who
209 Text |           who is in pain is evil?~CALLICLES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: The
210 Text |        the evil has more of them?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then must
211 Text |         same:—can this be denied, Callicles?~CALLICLES: I have been
212 Text |        this be denied, Callicles?~CALLICLES: I have been listening and
213 Text |       others bad?~SOCRATES: Alas, Callicles, how unfair you are! you
214 Text |         are good and others evil?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: The beneficial
215 Text |         and the hurtful are evil?~CALLICLES: To be sure.~SOCRATES: And
216 Text |         those which do some evil?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Take, for
217 Text |         and their opposites evil?~CALLICLES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And
218 Text |         and there are evil pains?~CALLICLES: To be sure.~SOCRATES: And
219 Text |         good pleasures and pains?~CALLICLES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: But
220 Text |       SOCRATES: But not the evil?~CALLICLES: Clearly.~SOCRATES: Because,
221 Text |          a third vote to our two?~CALLICLES: I will.~SOCRATES: Then
222 Text |         for the sake of pleasure?~CALLICLES: To be sure.~SOCRATES: But
223 Text |      knowledge of them in detail?~CALLICLES: He must have art.~SOCRATES:
224 Text |       friendship, I must beg you, Callicles, not to jest, or to imagine
225 Text |           understand what I mean?~CALLICLES: No, I do not.~SOCRATES:
226 Text |          far or not—do you agree?~CALLICLES: I do.~SOCRATES: Then I
227 Text |       good or bad. In my opinion, Callicles, there are such processes,
228 Text |            or whether you differ.~CALLICLES: I do not differ; on the
229 Text |          soul, or of two or more?~CALLICLES: Equally true of two or
230 Text |         for their true interests?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Can you
231 Text |        which seeks only pleasure, Callicles, and thinks of nothing else?~
232 Text |           thinks of nothing else?~CALLICLES: I assent.~SOCRATES: And
233 Text |    playing the lyre at festivals?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And what
234 Text |        pleasure to the multitude?~CALLICLES: There can be no mistake
235 Text |         for the sake of pleasure?~CALLICLES: That is my notion of them.~
236 Text |        judgment is her character?~CALLICLES: There can be no doubt,
237 Text |           that the sort of thing, Callicles, which we were just now
238 Text |           describing as flattery?~CALLICLES: Quite true.~SOCRATES: Well
239 Text |       speech? (Compare Republic.)~CALLICLES: To be sure.~SOCRATES: And
240 Text |   addressed to a crowd of people?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then poetry
241 Text |     poetry is a sort of rhetoric?~CALLICLES: True.~SOCRATES: And do
242 Text |           you to be rhetoricians?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then now
243 Text |           the nature of flattery.~CALLICLES: Quite true.~SOCRATES: Very
244 Text |         better or worse for this?~CALLICLES: I must distinguish. There
245 Text |         of this stamp, who is he?~CALLICLES: But, indeed, I am afraid
246 Text |           not know of such a man.~CALLICLES: What! did you never hear
247 Text |          yourself?~SOCRATES: Yes, Callicles, they were good men, if,
248 Text |         who did distinguish them?~CALLICLES: No, indeed, I cannot.~SOCRATES:
249 Text |            SOCRATES: Yet, surely, Callicles, if you look you will find
250 Text |           body: do you deny this?~CALLICLES: No; I am ready to admit
251 Text |          there is disorder, evil?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And the
252 Text |           same is true of a ship?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And the
253 Text |           said of the human body?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And what
254 Text |       there is harmony and order?~CALLICLES: The latter follows from
255 Text |    harmony and order in the body?~CALLICLES: I suppose that you mean
256 Text |         as well as for the other.~CALLICLES: Why not give the name yourself,
257 Text |  excellence: is that true or not?~CALLICLES: True.~SOCRATES: And ‘lawful’
258 Text |         and justice: have we not?~CALLICLES: Granted.~SOCRATES: And
259 Text |           vice? Do you not agree?~CALLICLES: I agree.~SOCRATES: For
260 Text |            For what use is there, Callicles, in giving to the body of
261 Text |      estimated. Is not that true?~CALLICLES: I will not say No to it.~
262 Text |          is evil: am I not right?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: When a man
263 Text |         even you will admit that?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And does
264 Text |           to her own improvement.~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Such treatment
265 Text |      better for the soul herself?~CALLICLES: To be sure.~SOCRATES: And
266 Text |     appetites is to chastise her?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then restraint
267 Text |         were just now preferring?~CALLICLES: I do not understand you,
268 Text |        which the argument speaks!~CALLICLES: I do not heed a word of
269 Text |          break off in the middle?~CALLICLES: You shall judge for yourself.~
270 Text |      longer, and put the head on.~CALLICLES: How tyrannical you are,
271 Text |           to finish the argument.~CALLICLES: Cannot you finish without
272 Text |        continue the argument with Callicles, and then I might have given
273 Text |           Zethus’; but since you, Callicles, are unwilling to continue,
274 Text |           the tablets of my soul.~CALLICLES: My good fellow, never mind
275 Text |           the good? Not the same. Callicles and I are agreed about that.
276 Text |      present in us or them? That, Callicles, is my conviction. But the
277 Text |          other answer can I give, Callicles dear; have you any?~CALLICLES:
278 Text |     Callicles dear; have you any?~CALLICLES: Go on, my good fellow.~
279 Text |          he ought; and therefore, Callicles, the temperate man, being,
280 Text |         And philosophers tell us, Callicles, that communion and friendship
281 Text | consequences which I drew before, Callicles, and about which you asked
282 Text |   repeated once more. I tell you, Callicles, that to be boxed on the
283 Text |        avert them. Am I not right Callicles?~CALLICLES: Yes, quite right.~
284 Text |         Am I not right Callicles?~CALLICLES: Yes, quite right.~SOCRATES:
285 Text |           himself with the power?~CALLICLES: He must have provided himself
286 Text |      still? Surely you might say, Callicles, whether you think that
287 Text |         wrong against their will?~CALLICLES: Granted, Socrates, if you
288 Text |           we may do no injustice?~CALLICLES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And
289 Text |    companion of the ruling power.~CALLICLES: Well said, Socrates; and
290 Text |      Would you not agree to this?~CALLICLES: I should.~SOCRATES: But
291 Text |      perfectly friendly with him.~CALLICLES: That is true.~SOCRATES:
292 Text |           regard him as a friend.~CALLICLES: That again is true.~SOCRATES:
293 Text |         impunity:—is not that so?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And if a
294 Text |          as like him as possible?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And in this
295 Text |         and not suffering injury?~CALLICLES: Very true.~SOCRATES: But
296 Text |    possible, and not be punished?~CALLICLES: True.~SOCRATES: And by
297 Text |         the greatest evil to him?~CALLICLES: You always contrive somehow
298 Text |        goods?~SOCRATES: Excellent Callicles, I am not deaf, and I have
299 Text |           kill the good and true.~CALLICLES: And is not that just the
300 Text |           advise me to cultivate?~CALLICLES: Yes, truly, and very good
301 Text |         of any great pretensions?~CALLICLES: No, indeed.~SOCRATES: And
302 Text |           And if he were to talk, Callicles, in your grandiose style,
303 Text |            But perhaps you, sweet Callicles, may be of another mind.
304 Text |    another mind. What do you say?~CALLICLES: Somehow or other your words,
305 Text |          SOCRATES: The reason is, Callicles, that the love of Demus
306 Text |        distinction which we drew?~CALLICLES: Very true.~SOCRATES: And
307 Text |       another of our conclusions?~CALLICLES: Be it so, if you will have
308 Text |         to, whether body or soul?~CALLICLES: Quite true.~SOCRATES: And
309 Text |          good. Shall we say that?~CALLICLES: Yes, certainly, if you
310 Text |         Well, then, if you and I, Callicles, were intending to set about
311 Text |      would not that be necessary, Callicles?~CALLICLES: True.~SOCRATES:
312 Text |          be necessary, Callicles?~CALLICLES: True.~SOCRATES: In the
313 Text |           them. Is not this true?~CALLICLES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And
314 Text |           of us, then, by Heaven, Callicles, what an absurdity to think
315 Text |         which is a foolish thing?~CALLICLES: True.~SOCRATES: And now,
316 Text |           another. Tell me, then, Callicles, how about making any of
317 Text |         and became by the help of Callicles good and noble? Was there
318 Text |        slave or freeman? Tell me, Callicles, if a person were to ask
319 Text |          Why will you not answer?~CALLICLES: You are contentious, Socrates.~
320 Text |          they were good citizens.~CALLICLES: I do.~SOCRATES: But if
321 Text |          better instead of worse?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And, therefore,
322 Text |       good as when he spoke last?~CALLICLES: Very likely.~SOCRATES:
323 Text |         the inference is certain.~CALLICLES: And what difference does
324 Text |           love of talk and money.~CALLICLES: You heard that, Socrates,
325 Text |         that he was a malefactor.~CALLICLES: Well, but how does that
326 Text |   received them? What do you say?~CALLICLES: I will do you the favour
327 Text |         whether man is an animal?~CALLICLES: Certainly he is.~SOCRATES:
328 Text |       Pericles a shepherd of men?~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And if he
329 Text |        just, and not more unjust?~CALLICLES: Quite true.~SOCRATES: And
330 Text |          are you of another mind?~CALLICLES: I agree.~SOCRATES: And
331 Text |           very far from desiring.~CALLICLES: Do you want me to agree
332 Text |           you to speak the truth.~CALLICLES: Granted then.~SOCRATES:
333 Text |         more unjust and inferior?~CALLICLES: Granted again.~SOCRATES:
334 Text |         was not a good statesman?~CALLICLES: That is, upon your view.~
335 Text |    profession.—What do you think?~CALLICLES: I should think not.~SOCRATES:
336 Text |        have fallen out of favour.~CALLICLES: But surely, Socrates, no
337 Text |           the mischief. And that, Callicles, is just what you are now
338 Text |          friends, than this? You, Callicles, compel me to be a mob-orator,
339 Text |      because you will not answer.~CALLICLES: And you are the man who
340 Text |        blaming him for being bad?~CALLICLES: Yes, it appears so to me.~
341 Text |         this inconsistent manner?~CALLICLES: Yes, but why talk of men
342 Text |      benefit. Is not this a fact?~CALLICLES: Certainly it is.~SOCRATES:
343 Text |           by reason of injustice.~CALLICLES: Very true.~SOCRATES: And
344 Text |          right? (Compare Protag.)~CALLICLES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then we
345 Text |        building or any other art?~CALLICLES: Yes, we have found the
346 Text |         held to be dishonourable?~CALLICLES: True.~SOCRATES: And why?
347 Text |      otherwise not. Is this true?~CALLICLES: It is.~SOCRATES: Then to
348 Text |         tell me your entire mind.~CALLICLES: I say then that you should
349 Text |       that is a noble invitation.~CALLICLES: The Mysian, Socrates, or
350 Text |         and if basely, hurtfully.~CALLICLES: How confident you are,
351 Text |          I must indeed be a fool, Callicles, if I do not know that in
352 Text |        you why I anticipate this?~CALLICLES: By all means.~SOCRATES:
353 Text |           How they would cry out!~CALLICLES: I dare say.~SOCRATES: Would
354 Text |    utterly at a loss for a reply?~CALLICLES: He certainly would.~SOCRATES:
355 Text |     saying what may happen to me.~CALLICLES: And do you think, Socrates,
356 Text |          position?~SOCRATES: Yes, Callicles, if he have that defence,
357 Text |         like to tell you a story.~CALLICLES: Very well, proceed; and
358 Text |        possible.’~From this tale, Callicles, which I have heard and
359 Text |         equally true of the soul, Callicles; when a man is stripped
360 Text |      those who had the power. No, Callicles, the very bad men come from
361 Text |         or not; and I should say, Callicles, that he is most likely
362 Text |         laws to the dead.’~Now I, Callicles, am persuaded of the truth
363 Text |         follow you; for that way, Callicles, is nothing worth.~THE END~     >


Meno
    Part
364 Intro|           is of the same class as Callicles in the Gorgias, but of a
365 Intro|          sophistical doctrines of Callicles are not attributed to him.


The Sophist
    Part
366 Intro|         in the mind of Anytus, or Callicles, or of any intelligent Athenian,


The Statesman
    Part
367 Intro|     against them in the spirit of Callicles in the Gorgias; or from