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Charmides
    Part
  1 PreF |      College, who read with me the Cratylus and the Gorgias; Mr. Paravicini,
  2 Intro|           as in the Protagoras and Cratylus, are ascribed to the ingenuity


Cratylus
    Part
  3 -    |                                    Cratylus~
  4 Intro|                   INTRODUCTION~The Cratylus has always been a source
  5 Intro|             or the speculations of Cratylus, or some other Heracleitean
  6 Intro| surroundings of such a work as the Cratylus are taken away. Moreover,
  7 Intro|       dialogue. Does he agree with Cratylus or with Hermogenes, and
  8 Intro|          mind of the reader of the Cratylus. And the consideration of
  9 Intro|         works of Plato, but to the Cratylus and Phaedrus more than any
 10 Intro|        property of any. And in the Cratylus we have no reason to assume
 11 Intro|          Hermogenes, Socrates, and Cratylus, the three theories of language
 12 Intro|           dialogue, Hermogenes and Cratylus, are at the opposite poles
 13 Intro|          speculations of Socrates.~Cratylus is of opinion that a name
 14 Intro|       Compare Theaet.) Of the real Cratylus we know nothing, except
 15 Intro|       sound of things. In a sense, Cratylus is right in saying that
 16 Intro|           by Hermogenes, Socrates, Cratylus, may be described as the
 17 Intro|            in the vague realism of Cratylus. This misconception has
 18 Intro|           the Sophist.) And in the Cratylus he gives a general account
 19 Intro|       nothing. Even the realism of Cratylus is not based upon the ideas
 20 Intro|     follies of early logic; in the Cratylus he is ridiculing the fancies
 21 Intro|         and the etymologies of the Cratylus have also found their way
 22 Intro|          to the Heracleiteanism of Cratylus.~The theory of language
 23 Intro|         which is propounded in the Cratylus is in accordance with the
 24 Intro|            his contemporaries.~The Cratylus is full of humour and satirical
 25 Intro|            from the half-converted Cratylus the doctrine that falsehood
 26 Intro|       having wasted his time upon ‘Cratylus and the doctrines of Heracleitus’
 27 Intro|     philosophy, endeavours to show Cratylus that imitation may be partial
 28 Intro|           state of transition. But Cratylus, who does not easily apprehend
 29 Intro|        vigour; the Socrates of the Cratylus is the Socrates of the Apology
 30 Intro|           far wrong in placing the Cratylus about the middle, or at
 31 Intro|         first half, of the series.~Cratylus, the Heracleitean philosopher,
 32 Intro|        that they are conventional. Cratylus affirms that his own is
 33 Intro|    Socrates to explain to him what Cratylus means; or, far rather, he
 34 Intro|      opinion on such matters. When Cratylus denies that Hermogenes is
 35 Intro|            of speeches. ‘Well said Cratylus, then, that I am no son
 36 Intro|           should like to hear what Cratylus would say. ‘But, Socrates,
 37 Intro|    Socrates, as I was telling you, Cratylus mystifies me; I should like
 38 Intro|            names?’ To this appeal, Cratylus replies ‘that he cannot
 39 Intro|   interposes his own request, that Cratylus will give some account of
 40 Intro|            are mere sciolists, but Cratylus has reflected on these matters,
 41 Intro|     matters, and has had teachers. Cratylus replies in the words of
 42 Intro|            Homer remarks. Does not Cratylus agree with him that names
 43 Intro|        make better or worse names. Cratylus cannot admit that one name
 44 Intro|        never been a lack of liars. Cratylus presses him with the old
 45 Intro|        Suppose a person addressing Cratylus were to say, Hail, Athenian
 46 Intro|          right or false and wrong? Cratylus admits that pictures may
 47 Intro|         that there are two objects—Cratylus and the image of Cratylus;
 48 Intro|          Cratylus and the image of Cratylus; and let us imagine that
 49 Intro|         Cratyluses, and not merely Cratylus and the image of Cratylus.
 50 Intro|          Cratylus and the image of Cratylus. But an image in fact always
 51 Intro|          ridiculous would this be! Cratylus admits the truth of Socrates’
 52 Intro|              Are we to count them, Cratylus; and is correctness of names
 53 Intro|         This doctrine may be true, Cratylus, but is also very likely
 54 Intro|            I) how far Plato in the Cratylus has discovered the true
 55 Intro|       authority.~On the whole, the Cratylus seems to contain deeper
 56 Text |                                    CRATYLUS~PERSONS OF THE DIALOGUE:
 57 Text |    DIALOGUE: Socrates, Hermogenes, Cratylus.~HERMOGENES: Suppose that
 58 Text |           a party to the argument?~CRATYLUS: If you please.~HERMOGENES:
 59 Text |          Socrates, that our friend Cratylus has been arguing about names;
 60 Text |            whether his own name of Cratylus is a true name or not, and
 61 Text |     however, gladly assist you and Cratylus in the investigation of
 62 Text |        over this matter, both with Cratylus and others, and cannot convince
 63 Text |         happy to hear and learn of Cratylus, or of any one else.~SOCRATES:
 64 Text |       light or chance persons; and Cratylus is right in saying that
 65 Text |       there is any meaning in what Cratylus says.~SOCRATES: I should
 66 Text |           Then I am very sure that Cratylus was quite right in saying
 67 Text |           should like to hear what Cratylus has more to say.~HERMOGENES:
 68 Text |            was telling you before, Cratylus mystifies me; he says that
 69 Text |      intended or not. Tell me now, Cratylus, here in the presence of
 70 Text |           and I will learn of you.~CRATYLUS: Well, but surely, Hermogenes,
 71 Text |           am by no means positive, Cratylus, in the view which Hermogenes
 72 Text |          number of your disciples.~CRATYLUS: You are right, Socrates,
 73 Text |      yourself.~SOCRATES: Excellent Cratylus, I have long been wondering
 74 Text |          been sufficiently proven?~CRATYLUS: Yes, Socrates, what you
 75 Text |        given in order to instruct?~CRATYLUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And
 76 Text |           art, and has artificers?~CRATYLUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And who
 77 Text |        SOCRATES: And who are they?~CRATYLUS: The legislators, of whom
 78 Text |         are better and some worse?~CRATYLUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: The better
 79 Text |            worse build them worse.~CRATYLUS: True.~SOCRATES: And among
 80 Text |        work better and some worse?~CRATYLUS: No; there I do not agree
 81 Text |           better and others worse?~CRATYLUS: No, indeed.~SOCRATES: Or
 82 Text |            is better than another?~CRATYLUS: Certainly not.~SOCRATES:
 83 Text |         names are rightly imposed?~CRATYLUS: Yes, if they are names
 84 Text |            or not his name at all?~CRATYLUS: I should reply that Hermogenes
 85 Text |          Hermogenes, if he is not.~CRATYLUS: What do you mean?~SOCRATES:
 86 Text |       plenty of liars in all ages.~CRATYLUS: Why, Socrates, how can
 87 Text |            be spoken but not said?~CRATYLUS: Neither spoken nor said.~
 88 Text |          perhaps to nobody at all?~CRATYLUS: In my opinion, Socrates,
 89 Text |           all that I want to know.~CRATYLUS: I should say that he would
 90 Text |          SOCRATES: But let us see, Cratylus, whether we cannot find
 91 Text |         same with the thing named?~CRATYLUS: I should.~SOCRATES: And
 92 Text |            imitation of the thing?~CRATYLUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And
 93 Text |        things, but in another way?~CRATYLUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: I believe
 94 Text |            they are the imitation.~CRATYLUS: They are.~SOCRATES: First
 95 Text |           to the woman; and so on?~CRATYLUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And
 96 Text |           of the woman to the man?~CRATYLUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: And
 97 Text |          right, or only the first?~CRATYLUS: Only the first.~SOCRATES:
 98 Text |          to them and is like them?~CRATYLUS: That is my view.~SOCRATES:
 99 Text |            false as well as wrong.~CRATYLUS: That may be true, Socrates,
100 Text |         before the sense of sight.~CRATYLUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And
101 Text |           all that quite possible?~CRATYLUS: I would fain agree with
102 Text |          of them. What do you say, Cratylus?~CRATYLUS: I agree; and
103 Text |         What do you say, Cratylus?~CRATYLUS: I agree; and think that
104 Text |        much of them—may there not?~CRATYLUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: And
105 Text |        figure, but not a good one.~CRATYLUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: In like
106 Text |          well and others ill made.~CRATYLUS: That is true.~SOCRATES:
107 Text |            good, or he may be bad?~CRATYLUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And this
108 Text |          is called the legislator?~CRATYLUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then like
109 Text |       former admissions hold good?~CRATYLUS: Very true, Socrates; but
110 Text |        view is altogether correct, Cratylus.~CRATYLUS: How so?~SOCRATES:
111 Text |      altogether correct, Cratylus.~CRATYLUS: How so?~SOCRATES: I believe
112 Text |      objects: one of them shall be Cratylus, and the other the image
113 Text |         and the other the image of Cratylus; and we will suppose, further,
114 Text |        would you say that this was Cratylus and the image of Cratylus,
115 Text |          Cratylus and the image of Cratylus, or that there were two
116 Text |         there were two Cratyluses?~CRATYLUS: I should say that there
117 Text |    realities which they represent?~CRATYLUS: Yes, I see.~SOCRATES: But
118 Text |          which were the realities.~CRATYLUS: Quite true.~SOCRATES: Then
119 Text |          the names of the letters.~CRATYLUS: Yes, I remember.~SOCRATES:
120 Text |        inconsistent with yourself.~CRATYLUS: I quite acknowledge, Socrates,
121 Text |           have the proper letters.~CRATYLUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And the
122 Text |         which are like the things?~CRATYLUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: Enough then
123 Text |        word: you would admit that?~CRATYLUS: There would be no use,
124 Text |         representation of a thing?~CRATYLUS: Yes, I do.~SOCRATES: But
125 Text |       primitive, and some derived?~CRATYLUS: Yes, I do.~SOCRATES: Then
126 Text |         two notions do you prefer?~CRATYLUS: Representation by likeness,
127 Text |           the picture is composed?~CRATYLUS: Impossible.~SOCRATES: No
128 Text |     original elements are letters?~CRATYLUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: Let me now
129 Text |       right or wrong in saying so?~CRATYLUS: I should say that you were
130 Text |            softness, and the like?~CRATYLUS: There again you were right.~
131 Text |        Eretrians called skleroter.~CRATYLUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: But
132 Text |         significance to one of us?~CRATYLUS: Nay, surely there is a
133 Text |            far as they are unlike?~CRATYLUS: In as far as they are like.~
134 Text |         Are they altogether alike?~CRATYLUS: Yes; for the purpose of
135 Text |          hardness but of softness.~CRATYLUS: Why, perhaps the letter
136 Text |              you know what I mean.~CRATYLUS: Yes, my dear friend, and
137 Text |            is what you are saying?~CRATYLUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And if when
138 Text |     indication given by me to you?~CRATYLUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: This indication
139 Text |            we are agreed thus far, Cratylus (for I shall assume that
140 Text |           what is the use of them?~CRATYLUS: The use of names, Socrates,
141 Text |           suppose you mean to say, Cratylus, that as the name is, so
142 Text |       names will also know things.~CRATYLUS: That is precisely what
143 Text |            other? What do you say?~CRATYLUS: I believe that to be both
144 Text |          of enquiry and discovery.~CRATYLUS: I certainly believe that
145 Text |          Well, but do you not see, Cratylus, that he who follows names
146 Text |          danger of being deceived?~CRATYLUS: How so?~SOCRATES: Why clearly
147 Text |         they signified—did he not?~CRATYLUS: True.~SOCRATES: And if
148 Text |            not be deceived by him?~CRATYLUS: But, Socrates, am I not
149 Text |         SOCRATES: But that, friend Cratylus, is no answer. For if he
150 Text |            be the meaning of them?~CRATYLUS: Yes; that is assuredly
151 Text |            the opposite of motion.~CRATYLUS: Yes, Socrates, but observe;
152 Text |            SOCRATES: What of that, Cratylus? Are we to count them like
153 Text |           those are the true ones?~CRATYLUS: No; that is not reasonable.~
154 Text |         the art of the legislator?~CRATYLUS: Quite true.~SOCRATES: Tell
155 Text |           things which they named?~CRATYLUS: They must have known, Socrates.~
156 Text |         SOCRATES: Why, yes, friend Cratylus, they could hardly have
157 Text |         hardly have been ignorant.~CRATYLUS: I should say not.~SOCRATES:
158 Text |         you still of that opinion?~CRATYLUS: I am.~SOCRATES: And would
159 Text |         the things which he named?~CRATYLUS: I should.~SOCRATES: But
160 Text |            learn them from others.~CRATYLUS: I think that there is a
161 Text |        they could have known them?~CRATYLUS: I believe, Socrates, the
162 Text |          motion? Were we mistaken?~CRATYLUS: But I suppose one of the
163 Text |       determined by counting them.~CRATYLUS: No; not in that way, Socrates.~
164 Text |         shows the truth of things.~CRATYLUS: I agree.~SOCRATES: But
165 Text |     SOCRATES: But if that is true, Cratylus, then I suppose that things
166 Text |            be known without names?~CRATYLUS: Clearly.~SOCRATES: But
167 Text |           and different from them.~CRATYLUS: What you are saying is,
168 Text |            things which they name?~CRATYLUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: Let us suppose
169 Text |           have been duly executed?~CRATYLUS: I should say that we must
170 Text |        investigated in themselves.~CRATYLUS: Clearly, Socrates.~SOCRATES:
171 Text |          There is a matter, master Cratylus, about which I often dream,
172 Text |          other absolute existence?~CRATYLUS: Certainly, Socrates, I
173 Text |           is not always beautiful.~CRATYLUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And
174 Text |         the word is in our mouths?~CRATYLUS: Undoubtedly.~SOCRATES:
175 Text |          never change or be moved.~CRATYLUS: Certainly they cannot.~
176 Text |           that which has no state.~CRATYLUS: True.~SOCRATES: Nor can
177 Text |         Nor can we reasonably say, Cratylus, that there is knowledge
178 Text |            nose. This may be true, Cratylus, but is also very likely
179 Text |           truth, come and tell me.~CRATYLUS: I will do as you say, though
180 Text |         shall set you on your way.~CRATYLUS: Very good, Socrates; I


Euthydemus
    Part
181 Intro|           words is analysed in the Cratylus; the form of the syllogism
182 Intro|       determine whether, as in the Cratylus, Plato has or has not mixed


Euthyphro
    Part
183 Intro|            steeds’ Socrates in the Cratylus is carried away. He has


Menexenus
    Part
184 Intro|           composition. Thus in the Cratylus he is run away with; in


Meno
    Part
185 Intro|           them in the Laws. In the Cratylus they dawn upon him with


Parmenides
    Part
186 Intro|           Megarian School (compare Cratylus, etc.). The criticism on
187 Intro|          as the derivations in the Cratylus or the fallacies of the
188 Intro|           trained in the school of Cratylus and Heracleitus, may have


Phaedo
    Part
189 Intro|            already appeared in the Cratylus. No inference can fairly


Phaedrus
    Part
190 Intro|      similar to that pervading the Cratylus and Io, he connects with
191 Intro|        pretence of Socrates in the Cratylus that his knowledge of philology
192 Intro|     oionistike and imeros (compare Cratylus)? It is characteristic of
193 Intro| word-splitting Eristics; as in the Cratylus he ridicules the fancies
194 Text |        inventors of names (compare Cratylus), who would never have connected


Philebus
    Part
195 Intro|           as in the Theaetetus and Cratylus, with irony and contempt.
196 Intro|             The Philebus, like the Cratylus, is supposed to be the continuation


Protagoras
    Part
197 Intro|          the Euthydemus and of the Cratylus, the veil of irony is never


The Sophist
    Part
198 Intro|         Plato’s reply, both in the Cratylus and Sophist. ‘Theaetetus
199 Intro|          In the Sophist, as in the Cratylus, he is opposed to the Heracleitean


The Statesman
    Part
200 Intro|           aware, as he says in the Cratylus, that there may be consistency
201 Intro|           for not giving a reason (Cratylus), yet, considering that
202 Intro|         the dialectical. As in the Cratylus, the legislator has ‘the


Theaetetus
    Part
203 Intro|        points of affinity with the Cratylus, in which the principles
204 Intro|        supposed to acknowledge (so Cratylus). And Protagoras, in the
205 Intro|            called by his name. The Cratylus presents a similar difficulty:
206 Intro|            As Plato remarks in the Cratylus, words expressive of motion
207 Intro|      philosophers. (See Introd. to Cratylus.)~b. This primitive psychology
208 Intro|         them equally true (compare Cratylus). Yet from diversity of
209 Text |        appear ridiculous? (Compare Cratylus.)~THEAETETUS: Who indeed,


Timaeus
    Part
210 Intro|       Pythagorean model. As in the Cratylus and Parmenides, we are uncertain
211 Intro|            imitative power; in the Cratylus mingling a satirical and