The Apology
     Part
   1 Intro|           stands to the real defence of Socrates, there are no means of determining.
   2 Intro|                 in the Memorabilia that Socrates might have been acquitted ‘
   3 Intro|               Hermogenes, the friend of Socrates, that he had no wish to
   4 Intro|                a defence, and also that Socrates himself declared this to
   5 Intro|             accustomed manner’ in which Socrates spoke in ‘the agora and
   6 Intro|                regarded as the ideal of Socrates, according to Plato’s conception
   7 Intro|                which is the portrait of Socrates.~Yet some of the topics
   8 Intro|              have been actually used by Socrates; and the recollection of
   9 Intro|               is not the report of what Socrates said, but an elaborate composition,
  10 Intro|              that the actual defence of Socrates was as much greater than
  11 Intro|        suspicious is the statement that Socrates received the first impulse
  12 Intro|                true to the character of Socrates, but we cannot show that
  13 Intro|               It breathes the spirit of Socrates, but has been cast anew
  14 Intro|                to the Apology, in which Socrates, who has defied the judges,
  15 Intro|       respecting the trial and death of Socrates agree generally with Plato;
  16 Intro|          Apology or Platonic defence of Socrates is divided into three parts:
  17 Intro|                formula. The first say, ‘Socrates is an evil-doer and a curious
  18 Intro|                to others.’ The second, ‘Socrates is an evil-doer and corrupter
  19 Intro|            there was any man wiser than Socrates; and the answer was, that
  20 Intro|              moon earth.’ That, replies Socrates, is the old confusion about
  21 Intro|           attribute to the influence of Socrates notions which have found
  22 Intro|                 learned at the theatre. Socrates undertakes to show that
  23 Intro|                  There are no gods, but Socrates believes in the existence
  24 Intro|              will be found to wish that Socrates should have defended himself
  25 Intro|                a sufficient answer that Socrates had never professed to teach
  26 Intro|                to such a serious charge Socrates had given a more serious
  27 Intro|                 Truly characteristic of Socrates is another point in his
  28 Intro|              involuntarily.’ But if, as Socrates argues, all evil is involuntary,
  29 Intro|                instance, the defence of Socrates is untrue practically, but
  30 Intro|               satisfactory.~Again, when Socrates argues that he must believe
  31 Intro|             which is consistent enough—‘Socrates does not receive the gods
  32 Intro|              downright atheist. To this Socrates fairly answers, in accordance
  33 Intro|                Plato meant to represent Socrates as braving or irritating
  34 Intro|          guiding principle of his life. Socrates is nowhere represented to
  35 Intro|     incidentally the antagonism between Socrates and the Sophists is allowed
  36 Intro|               certainty to the Platonic Socrates only. For, although these
  37 Intro|                 may have been spoken by Socrates himself, we cannot exclude
  38 Intro|            reproduction of the words of Socrates, partly because Plato would
  39 Intro|                What effect the death of Socrates produced on the mind of
  40 Intro|               enmity of Aristophanes to Socrates does not prevent Plato from
  41 Text |              falsehoods, telling of one Socrates, a wise man, who speculated
  42 Text |                 words in an affidavit: ‘Socrates is an evil-doer, and a curious
  43 Text |          introduced a man whom he calls Socrates, going about and saying
  44 Text |             among you will reply, ‘Yes, Socrates, but what is the origin
  45 Text |          nothing; he is not speaking of Socrates, he is only using my name
  46 Text |                is the wisest, who, like Socrates, knows that his wisdom is
  47 Text |                with me: This confounded Socrates, they say; this villainous
  48 Text |                 this kind: It says that Socrates is a doer of evil, who corrupts
  49 Text |             knows the laws.~The judges, Socrates, who are present in court.~
  50 Text |               said to be taught them by Socrates, when there are not unfrequently
  51 Text |               their money, and laugh at Socrates if he pretends to father
  52 Text |              shall see whether the wise Socrates will discover my facetious
  53 Text |                 much as if he said that Socrates is guilty of not believing
  54 Text |                And are you not ashamed, Socrates, of a course of life which
  55 Text |                 words—if you say to me, Socrates, this time we will not mind
  56 Text |              the world has decided that Socrates is in some way superior
  57 Text |                 Some one will say: Yes, Socrates, but cannot you hold your
  58 Text |                will say that you killed Socrates, a wise man; for they will


Charmides
     Part
  59 PreS |                 as a dialogue, of which Socrates is the central figure, and
  60 PreS |               the Republic the platonic Socrates speaks of ‘a longer and
  61 PreS |                universal definitions of Socrates, and at the same time ‘of
  62 Intro|                intellectual element (as Socrates is also said to have identified (
  63 Intro|               human beings, is asked by Socrates, ‘What is Temperance?’ He
  64 Intro|                 has heard, and of which Socrates conjectures that Critias
  65 Intro|              admit at the suggestion of Socrates; and, in the spirit of Socrates
  66 Intro|         Socrates; and, in the spirit of Socrates and of Greek life generally,
  67 Intro|                 knowledge of knowledge. Socrates replies by again dividing
  68 Intro|                with the speculations of Socrates.~In this Dialogue may be
  69 Intro|        impatience which is exhibited by Socrates of any definition of temperance
  70 Intro|                however, are disputed by Socrates, who asks cui bono?) as
  71 Intro|              youth Charmides, with whom Socrates talks in the kindly spirit
  72 Intro|               not the disciple, both of Socrates and of the Sophists. In
  73 Intro|         sometimes nearer the truth than Socrates. Nothing in his language
  74 Intro|          contrasts with the humility of Socrates. Nor in Charmides himself
  75 Intro|                 need of the charm which Socrates is unable to apply. With
  76 Intro|             entering into the spirit of Socrates, he enjoys the detection
  77 Intro|             Critias (Theaet.; Euthyd.). Socrates preserves his accustomed
  78 Intro|           perverted by the ingenuity of Socrates, and hardly rescued by an
  79 Text |                PERSONS OF THE DIALOGUE: Socrates, who is the narrator, Charmides,
  80 Text |             saying, How did you escape, Socrates?—(I should explain that
  81 Text |                 crowd. Of the beauties, Socrates, he said, I fancy that you
  82 Text |               What do you think of him, Socrates? Has he not a beautiful
  83 Text |             consent?~With your consent, Socrates, he said, laughing.~Very
  84 Text |               mind: and I can tell you, Socrates, that Charmides is not only
  85 Text |                quiet.~I think, he said, Socrates, that you are right.~Then
  86 Text |                 he said: My opinion is, Socrates, that temperance makes a
  87 Text |               evil as a good?~All that, Socrates, appears to me to be true;
  88 Text |             There you are in the right, Socrates, he replied.~To be sure,
  89 Text |                house of ill-fame? That, Socrates, is not to be supposed:
  90 Text |                or temperance?~But that, Socrates, he said, is impossible;
  91 Text |               advice. Shall I tell you, Socrates, why I say all this? My
  92 Text |                of pursuing the enquiry, Socrates, he said; for wisdom is
  93 Text |             falling into the old error, Socrates, he said. You come asking
  94 Text |                mankind?~Yes, certainly, Socrates, he said.~Then, I said,
  95 Text |              minding whether Critias or Socrates is the person refuted; attend
  96 Text |           greater than something else? (Socrates is intending to show that
  97 Text |                 less than itself?~That, Socrates, he said, is the inevitable
  98 Text |                 so we were saying?~Yes, Socrates, he said; and that I think
  99 Text |                 does not know?~Because, Socrates, they are the same.~Very
 100 Text |            think not.~How very strange, Socrates!~By the dog of Egypt, I
 101 Text |              giving no advantage?~That, Socrates, is certainly inconceivable.~
 102 Text |                sure that I do not know, Socrates, whether I have or have
 103 Text |                 And further, I am sure, Socrates, that I do need the charm,
 104 Text |               yourself to be charmed by Socrates, and never desert him at


Cratylus
     Part
 105 Intro|       attributed to the extravagance of Socrates’ humour would have been
 106 Intro|               made for the character of Socrates. For the theory of language
 107 Intro|               and Neoplatonist writers. Socrates must be interpreted from
 108 Intro|                no reason to assume that Socrates is either wholly right or
 109 Intro|               characters of Hermogenes, Socrates, and Cratylus, the three
 110 Intro|             accept the third view which Socrates interposes between them.
 111 Intro|                the convention proceeds. Socrates first of all intimates to
 112 Intro|                  to the speculations of Socrates.~Cratylus is of opinion
 113 Intro|      sophistical character, the view of Socrates is introduced, which is
 114 Intro|               propounded by Hermogenes, Socrates, Cratylus, may be described
 115 Intro|                the natural. The view of Socrates is the meeting-point of
 116 Intro|             that which he attributes to Socrates. Yet many persons have thought
 117 Intro|               the impression created by Socrates himself, that he is not
 118 Intro|                 infer, that the view of Socrates is not the less Plato’s
 119 Intro|                  2. We do not deny that Socrates is partly in jest and partly
 120 Intro|     etymological enthusiasm has abated, Socrates ends, as he has begun, with
 121 Intro|            which they are composed. The Socrates who ‘knows nothing,’ here
 122 Intro|        philological fancies of the day. Socrates in pursuit of his vocation
 123 Intro|                dialogues as the Silenus Socrates; and through this medium
 124 Intro|            about the provoking irony of Socrates, about the parody of Euthyphro,
 125 Intro|         authority of the Homeric poems, Socrates shows that the truth or
 126 Intro|            already anticipated in part: Socrates is not a dogmatic teacher,
 127 Intro|                  by the manner in which Socrates speaks of them, to have
 128 Intro|            derivations. Like his master Socrates, he saw through the hollowness
 129 Intro|                his hands.’ The irony of Socrates places him above and beyond
 130 Intro|                 all, the pleasure which Socrates expresses in his own dangerous
 131 Intro|                 philosophy of language, Socrates is also satirizing the endless
 132 Intro|               favourite recreation; and Socrates makes merry at the expense
 133 Intro|             told, heightens the effect. Socrates in his genial and ironical
 134 Intro|             latter part of the dialogue Socrates becomes more serious, though
 135 Intro|               in the days of his youth? Socrates, touching on some of the
 136 Intro|           treatment of the character of Socrates, have a close resemblance
 137 Intro|               still in full vigour; the Socrates of the Cratylus is the Socrates
 138 Intro|         Socrates of the Cratylus is the Socrates of the Apology and Symposium,
 139 Intro|           equally true. Hermogenes asks Socrates to explain to him what Cratylus
 140 Intro|                would like to know, What Socrates himself thinks about the
 141 Intro|                or correctness of names? Socrates replies, that hard is knowledge,
 142 Intro|              say, for instance, rejoins Socrates, that if I agree to call
 143 Intro|               confirmation of his view. Socrates asks, whether the things
 144 Intro|     acknowledges, when he is pressed by Socrates, that there are a few very
 145 Intro|               Cratylus would say. ‘But, Socrates, as I was telling you, Cratylus
 146 Intro|               little,” as Hesiod says.’ Socrates here interposes his own
 147 Intro|              breast, was the inspirer.’ Socrates replies, that he is afraid
 148 Intro|              the name of somebody else. Socrates supposes him to mean that
 149 Intro|            utter the word which is not. Socrates complains that this argument
 150 Intro|              but denies that names can. Socrates argues, that he may go up
 151 Intro|              may be a bad artist. ‘Yes, Socrates, but the cases are not parallel;
 152 Intro|              name ceases to be a name.’ Socrates admits that the number 10,
 153 Intro|            Cratylus admits the truth of Socrates’ remark. But then Socrates
 154 Intro|              Socrates’ remark. But then Socrates rejoins, he should have
 155 Intro|                 meaning hardness? ‘Why, Socrates, I retort upon you, that
 156 Intro|               names? ‘The use of names, Socrates, is to inform, and he who
 157 Intro|              erroneous. ‘But then, why, Socrates, is language so consistent?
 158 Intro|             were any names? ‘I believe, Socrates, that some power more than
 159 Intro|               tell me. ‘I have thought, Socrates, and after a good deal of
 160 Intro|                me a lesson. ‘Very good, Socrates, and I hope that you will
 161 Intro|                argument too subtle’ for Socrates, who rejects the theological
 162 Intro|            relations to the barbarians. Socrates is aware that this principle
 163 Intro|           langue bien faite.’ At first, Socrates has delighted himself with
 164 Intro|         falsehood is impossible,’ which Socrates characteristically sets
 165 Intro|          distinguish words from things. Socrates replies in effect that words
 166 Intro|               preserve the character of Socrates, Plato envelopes the whole
 167 Intro|           distinctions were familiar to Socrates and Plato. (5) There is
 168 Text |                PERSONS OF THE DIALOGUE: Socrates, Hermogenes, Cratylus.~HERMOGENES:
 169 Text |        HERMOGENES: Suppose that we make Socrates a party to the argument?~
 170 Text |                I should explain to you, Socrates, that our friend Cratylus
 171 Text |               and he answers ‘Yes.’ And Socrates? ‘Yes.’ Then every man’s
 172 Text |               be intelligible. Tell me, Socrates, what this oracle means;
 173 Text |                I would far sooner hear.~SOCRATES: Son of Hipponicus, there
 174 Text |           Cratylus, or of any one else.~SOCRATES: I dare say that you may
 175 Text |          HERMOGENES: That is my notion.~SOCRATES: Whether the giver of the
 176 Text |                a city?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Well, now, let me take
 177 Text |            would, according to my view.~SOCRATES: But how about truth, then?
 178 Text |                  HERMOGENES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And there are true and
 179 Text |                 HERMOGENES: To be sure.~SOCRATES: And a true proposition
 180 Text |               other answer is possible?~SOCRATES: Then in a proposition there
 181 Text |                  HERMOGENES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: But is a proposition true
 182 Text |              true as well as the whole.~SOCRATES: Would you say the large
 183 Text |                that every part is true.~SOCRATES: Is a proposition resolvable
 184 Text |               No; that is the smallest.~SOCRATES: Then the name is a part
 185 Text |           proposition?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Yes, and a true part, as
 186 Text |               you say.~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And is not the part of
 187 Text |             falsehood?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then, if propositions may
 188 Text |           HERMOGENES: So we must infer.~SOCRATES: And the name of anything
 189 Text |              the name?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And will there be so many
 190 Text |         uttering them?~HERMOGENES: Yes, Socrates, I can conceive no correctness
 191 Text |                tribes from one another.~SOCRATES: But would you say, Hermogenes,
 192 Text |                  There have been times, Socrates, when I have been driven
 193 Text |                I agree with him at all.~SOCRATES: What! have you ever been
 194 Text |                and a good many of them.~SOCRATES: Well, and have you ever
 195 Text |             ones?~HERMOGENES: Not many.~SOCRATES: Still you have found them?~
 196 Text |            found them?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And would you hold that
 197 Text |             view?~HERMOGENES: It would.~SOCRATES: But if Protagoras is right,
 198 Text |                 HERMOGENES: Impossible.~SOCRATES: And if, on the other hand,
 199 Text |                  HERMOGENES: He cannot.~SOCRATES: Nor will you be disposed
 200 Text |               HERMOGENES: There cannot.~SOCRATES: But if neither is right,
 201 Text |            nature.~HERMOGENES: I think, Socrates, that you have said the
 202 Text |                you have said the truth.~SOCRATES: Does what I am saying apply
 203 Text |             real as well as the things.~SOCRATES: Then the actions also are
 204 Text |           natural way is the right way.~SOCRATES: Again, in burning, not
 205 Text |           instrument.~HERMOGENES: True.~SOCRATES: And this holds good of
 206 Text |               actions?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And speech is a kind of
 207 Text |               action?~HERMOGENES: True.~SOCRATES: And will a man speak correctly
 208 Text |                 I quite agree with you.~SOCRATES: And is not naming a part
 209 Text |               HERMOGENES: That is true.~SOCRATES: And if speaking is a sort
 210 Text |               action?~HERMOGENES: True.~SOCRATES: And we saw that actions
 211 Text |                  HERMOGENES: Precisely.~SOCRATES: Then the argument would
 212 Text |           success.~HERMOGENES: I agree.~SOCRATES: But again, that which has
 213 Text |             something?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And that which has to be
 214 Text |                  HERMOGENES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And that which has to be
 215 Text |            something?~HERMOGENES: True.~SOCRATES: What is that with which
 216 Text |             pierce?~HERMOGENES: An awl.~SOCRATES: And with which we weave?~
 217 Text |                  HERMOGENES: A shuttle.~SOCRATES: And with which we name?~
 218 Text |               name?~HERMOGENES: A name.~SOCRATES: Very good: then a name
 219 Text |                  HERMOGENES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Suppose that I ask, ‘What
 220 Text |          instrument.’~HERMOGENES: Well.~SOCRATES: And I ask again, ‘What
 221 Text |                  HERMOGENES: Very true.~SOCRATES: And may not a similar description
 222 Text |                 HERMOGENES: To be sure.~SOCRATES: And now suppose that I
 223 Text |               HERMOGENES: I cannot say.~SOCRATES: Do we not give information
 224 Text |            HERMOGENES: Certainly we do.~SOCRATES: Then a name is an instrument
 225 Text |               the web.~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And the shuttle is the
 226 Text |                  HERMOGENES: Assuredly.~SOCRATES: Then the weaver will use
 227 Text |               teacher?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And when the weaver uses
 228 Text |                  That of the carpenter.~SOCRATES: And is every man a carpenter,
 229 Text |           HERMOGENES: Only the skilled.~SOCRATES: And when the piercer uses
 230 Text |          HERMOGENES: That of the smith.~SOCRATES: And is every man a smith,
 231 Text |           HERMOGENES: The skilled only.~SOCRATES: And when the teacher uses
 232 Text |               There again I am puzzled.~SOCRATES: Cannot you at least say
 233 Text |            HERMOGENES: Indeed I cannot.~SOCRATES: Does not the law seem to
 234 Text |          HERMOGENES: Yes, I suppose so.~SOCRATES: Then the teacher, when
 235 Text |        legislator?~HERMOGENES: I agree.~SOCRATES: And is every man a legislator,
 236 Text |           HERMOGENES: The skilled only.~SOCRATES: Then, Hermogenes, not every
 237 Text |               rarest.~HERMOGENES: True.~SOCRATES: And how does the legislator
 238 Text |                  HERMOGENES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And suppose the shuttle
 239 Text |               latter, I should imagine.~SOCRATES: Might not that be justly
 240 Text |                 HERMOGENES: I think so.~SOCRATES: And whatever shuttles are
 241 Text |             each case.~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And the same holds of other
 242 Text |                  HERMOGENES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And how to put into wood
 243 Text |                 uses?~HERMOGENES: True.~SOCRATES: For the several forms of
 244 Text |               general.~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then, as to names: ought
 245 Text |                  HERMOGENES: Very true.~SOCRATES: And the legislator, whether
 246 Text |                 HERMOGENES: Quite true.~SOCRATES: But who then is to determine
 247 Text |                  he who is to use them, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And who uses
 248 Text |               is to use them, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And who uses the work of
 249 Text |                  HERMOGENES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And who is he?~HERMOGENES:
 250 Text |                 The player of the lyre.~SOCRATES: And who will direct the
 251 Text |                  HERMOGENES: The pilot.~SOCRATES: And who will be best able
 252 Text |               the man?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And this is he who knows
 253 Text |             questions?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And how to answer them?~
 254 Text |           answer them?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And him who knows how to
 255 Text |                 that would be his name.~SOCRATES: Then the work of the carpenter
 256 Text |                 made.~HERMOGENES: True.~SOCRATES: And the work of the legislator
 257 Text |               HERMOGENES: That is true.~SOCRATES: Then, Hermogenes, I should
 258 Text |        HERMOGENES: I cannot answer you, Socrates; but I find a difficulty
 259 Text |               natural fitness of names.~SOCRATES: My good Hermogenes, I have
 260 Text |                  HERMOGENES: Very good.~SOCRATES: And what is the nature
 261 Text |              Certainly, I care to know.~SOCRATES: Then reflect.~HERMOGENES:
 262 Text |        HERMOGENES: How shall I reflect?~SOCRATES: The true way is to have
 263 Text |                 he and his book affirm!~SOCRATES: Then if you despise him,
 264 Text |            names, and what does he say?~SOCRATES: He often speaks of them;
 265 Text |                 what are you referring?~SOCRATES: Do you not know what he
 266 Text |                 HERMOGENES: I remember.~SOCRATES: Well, and about this river—
 267 Text |                  Il.)~HERMOGENES: I do.~SOCRATES: Let me ask you, then, which
 268 Text |              HERMOGENES: I do not know.~SOCRATES: How would you answer, if
 269 Text |                say the wise, of course.~SOCRATES: And are the men or the
 270 Text |                  I should say, the men.~SOCRATES: And Homer, as you know,
 271 Text |       HERMOGENES: That may be inferred.~SOCRATES: And must not Homer have
 272 Text |                 HERMOGENES: To be sure.~SOCRATES: Then he must have thought
 273 Text |       Scamandrius?~HERMOGENES: Clearly.~SOCRATES: And what is the reason
 274 Text |            observes.~HERMOGENES: I see.~SOCRATES: Why, Hermogenes, I do not
 275 Text |          HERMOGENES: No, indeed; not I.~SOCRATES: But tell me, friend, did
 276 Text |               HERMOGENES: What of that?~SOCRATES: The name appears to me
 277 Text |               to be on the right track.~SOCRATES: There is reason, I think,
 278 Text |               HERMOGENES: Yes, I agree.~SOCRATES: Very good. But you had
 279 Text |           HERMOGENES: What do you mean?~SOCRATES: A very simple matter. I
 280 Text |                I believe you are right.~SOCRATES: And may not the same be
 281 Text |                say so?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: The same names, then, ought
 282 Text |                nature?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And what of those who follow
 283 Text |                 HERMOGENES: Quite true.~SOCRATES: Then the irreligious son
 284 Text |                  HERMOGENES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: He should not be called
 285 Text |                  HERMOGENES: Certainly, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Again, Hermogenes,
 286 Text |        HERMOGENES: Certainly, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Again, Hermogenes, there
 287 Text |        HERMOGENES: That is very likely, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And his father’
 288 Text |               is very likely, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And his father’s name is
 289 Text |            nature.~HERMOGENES: Clearly.~SOCRATES: Yes, for as his name, so
 290 Text |              oron).~HERMOGENES: How so?~SOCRATES: Because, according to the
 291 Text |                what are the traditions?~SOCRATES: Many terrible misfortunes
 292 Text |             HERMOGENES: You seem to me, Socrates, to be quite like a prophet
 293 Text |                 to be uttering oracles.~SOCRATES: Yes, Hermogenes, and I
 294 Text |                the enquiry about names.~SOCRATES: Then let us proceed; and
 295 Text |                 HERMOGENES: I think so, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Ought we not
 296 Text |       HERMOGENES: I think so, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Ought we not to begin with
 297 Text |                 Yes, that will be well.~SOCRATES: My notion would be something
 298 Text |            think it very likely indeed.~SOCRATES: What shall follow the Gods?~
 299 Text |               heroes and men come next?~SOCRATES: Demons! And what do you
 300 Text |                HERMOGENES: Let me hear.~SOCRATES: You know how Hesiod uses
 301 Text |             word?~HERMOGENES: I do not.~SOCRATES: Do you not remember that
 302 Text |                  HERMOGENES: Yes, I do.~SOCRATES: He says of them—~‘But now
 303 Text |                  What is the inference?~SOCRATES: What is the inference!
 304 Text |               HERMOGENES: That is true.~SOCRATES: And do you not suppose
 305 Text |                HERMOGENES: Very likely.~SOCRATES: And are not the good wise?~
 306 Text |         HERMOGENES: Yes, they are wise.~SOCRATES: And therefore I have the
 307 Text |          writing eros with an epsilon.)~SOCRATES: I think that there is no
 308 Text |           HERMOGENES: What do you mean?~SOCRATES: Do you not know that the
 309 Text |                  HERMOGENES: What then?~SOCRATES: All of them sprang either
 310 Text |                 more likely to succeed.~SOCRATES: That is to say, you trust
 311 Text |                  HERMOGENES: Of course.~SOCRATES: Your faith is not vain;
 312 Text |               HERMOGENES: That is true.~SOCRATES: The name anthropos, which
 313 Text |           HERMOGENES: What do you mean?~SOCRATES: I mean to say that the
 314 Text |               about which I am curious?~SOCRATES: Certainly.~HERMOGENES:
 315 Text |           distinction of soul and body?~SOCRATES: Of course.~HERMOGENES:
 316 Text |                like the previous words.~SOCRATES: You want me first of all
 317 Text |                 body)?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: If I am to say what occurs
 318 Text |                HERMOGENES: Let me hear.~SOCRATES: What is that which holds
 319 Text |                  HERMOGENES: Just that.~SOCRATES: And do you not believe
 320 Text |                  HERMOGENES: Yes; I do.~SOCRATES: Then you may well call
 321 Text |              scientific than the other.~SOCRATES: It is so; but I cannot
 322 Text |                we say of the next word?~SOCRATES: You mean soma (the body).~
 323 Text |                 body).~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: That may be variously interpreted;
 324 Text |           changed.~HERMOGENES: I think, Socrates, that we have said enough
 325 Text |               is to be applied to them.~SOCRATES: Yes, indeed, Hermogenes;
 326 Text |             blame.~HERMOGENES: I think, Socrates, that you are quite right,
 327 Text |            would like to do as you say.~SOCRATES: Shall we begin, then, with
 328 Text |               that will be very proper.~SOCRATES: What may we suppose him
 329 Text |                most difficult question.~SOCRATES: My dear Hermogenes, the
 330 Text |                 Well, and what of them?~SOCRATES: They are the men to whom
 331 Text |              nonsense.~HERMOGENES: Why, Socrates?~SOCRATES: My good friend,
 332 Text |              HERMOGENES: Why, Socrates?~SOCRATES: My good friend, I have
 333 Text |             HERMOGENES: Of what nature?~SOCRATES: Well, rather ridiculous,
 334 Text |              HERMOGENES: How plausible?~SOCRATES: I fancy to myself Heracleitus
 335 Text |            HERMOGENES: How do you mean?~SOCRATES: Heracleitus is supposed
 336 Text |               HERMOGENES: That is true.~SOCRATES: Well, then, how can we
 337 Text |              something in what you say, Socrates; but I do not understand
 338 Text |             meaning of the name Tethys.~SOCRATES: Well, that is almost self-explained,
 339 Text |                  The idea is ingenious, Socrates.~SOCRATES: To be sure. But
 340 Text |                 is ingenious, Socrates.~SOCRATES: To be sure. But what comes
 341 Text |                spoken.~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then let us next take his
 342 Text |               HERMOGENES: By all means.~SOCRATES: Poseidon is Posidesmos,
 343 Text |                 is the true derivation?~SOCRATES: In spite of the mistakes
 344 Text |           HERMOGENES: Why, how is that?~SOCRATES: I will tell you my own
 345 Text |          necessity?~HERMOGENES: Desire, Socrates, is stronger far.~SOCRATES:
 346 Text |              Socrates, is stronger far.~SOCRATES: And do you not think that
 347 Text |       HERMOGENES: Assuredly they would.~SOCRATES: And if by the greatest
 348 Text |              HERMOGENES: That is clear.~SOCRATES: And there are many desires?~
 349 Text |               desires?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And therefore by the greatest
 350 Text |              greatest?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And is any desire stronger
 351 Text |              HERMOGENES: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: And is not that the reason,
 352 Text |               of truth in what you say.~SOCRATES: Yes, Hermogenes, and the
 353 Text |                  and the other deities?~SOCRATES: Demeter is e didousa meter,
 354 Text |               and what you say is true.~SOCRATES: But the name, in my opinion,
 355 Text |                God.~HERMOGENES: How so?~SOCRATES: I will endeavour to explain,
 356 Text |                to hear the explanation.~SOCRATES: Say rather an harmonious
 357 Text |                  HERMOGENES: Very true.~SOCRATES: And is not Apollo the purifier,
 358 Text |                  HERMOGENES: Very true.~SOCRATES: Then in reference to his
 359 Text |                 Dionysus and Aphrodite?~SOCRATES: Son of Hipponicus, you
 360 Text |               remains Athene, whom you, Socrates, as an Athenian, will surely
 361 Text |               also Hephaestus and Ares.~SOCRATES: I am not likely to forget
 362 Text |                 HERMOGENES: No, indeed.~SOCRATES: There is no difficulty
 363 Text |                 What other appellation?~SOCRATES: We call her Pallas.~HERMOGENES:
 364 Text |                 HERMOGENES: To be sure.~SOCRATES: And we cannot be wrong
 365 Text |         HERMOGENES: That is quite true.~SOCRATES: Then that is the explanation
 366 Text |              you say of the other name?~SOCRATES: Athene?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~
 367 Text |                Athene?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: That is a graver matter,
 368 Text |               do you say of Hephaestus?~SOCRATES: Speak you of the princely
 369 Text |            istora)?~HERMOGENES: Surely.~SOCRATES: Ephaistos is Phaistos,
 370 Text |             notion gets into your head.~SOCRATES: To prevent that, you had
 371 Text |               HERMOGENES: What is Ares?~SOCRATES: Ares may be called, if
 372 Text |                  HERMOGENES: Very true.~SOCRATES: And now, by the Gods, let
 373 Text |          meaning in what Cratylus says.~SOCRATES: I should imagine that the
 374 Text |                a good hand at speeches.~SOCRATES: There is also reason, my
 375 Text |               How do you make that out?~SOCRATES: You are aware that speech
 376 Text |                  HERMOGENES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Is not the truth that is
 377 Text |                  HERMOGENES: Very true.~SOCRATES: Then surely Pan, who is
 378 Text |             sort of Gods, by all means, Socrates. But why should we not discuss
 379 Text |              the seasons, and the year?~SOCRATES: You impose a great many
 380 Text |         HERMOGENES: You will oblige me.~SOCRATES: How would you have me begin?
 381 Text |                  HERMOGENES: Very good.~SOCRATES: The origin of the sun will
 382 Text |              what is selene (the moon)?~SOCRATES: That name is rather unfortunate
 383 Text |         Anaxagoras.~HERMOGENES: How so?~SOCRATES: The word seems to forestall
 384 Text |          HERMOGENES: Why do you say so?~SOCRATES: The two words selas (brightness)
 385 Text |               meaning?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: This light about the moon
 386 Text |                  HERMOGENES: Very true.~SOCRATES: The moon is not unfrequently
 387 Text |             selanaia.~HERMOGENES: True.~SOCRATES: And as she has a light
 388 Text |          dithyrambic sort of name that, Socrates. But what do you say of
 389 Text |                the month and the stars?~SOCRATES: Meis (month) is called
 390 Text |                 fire) and udor (water)?~SOCRATES: I am at a loss how to explain
 391 Text |                 HERMOGENES: What is it?~SOCRATES: I will tell you; but I
 392 Text |            HERMOGENES: Indeed I cannot.~SOCRATES: Shall I tell you what I
 393 Text |                  What is the inference?~SOCRATES: Why, you know that any
 394 Text |             HERMOGENES: Yes, certainly.~SOCRATES: Well then, consider whether
 395 Text |               HERMOGENES: That is true.~SOCRATES: Any violent interpretations
 396 Text |         gegennesthai.~HERMOGENES: Good.~SOCRATES: What shall we take next?~
 397 Text |                year, eniautos and etos.~SOCRATES: The orai should be spelt
 398 Text |        proposition.~HERMOGENES: Indeed, Socrates, you make surprising progress.~
 399 Text |               make surprising progress.~SOCRATES: I am run away with.~HERMOGENES:
 400 Text |                  HERMOGENES: Very true.~SOCRATES: But am not yet at my utmost
 401 Text |          justice, and the rest of them?~SOCRATES: That is a tremendous class
 402 Text |                 find out their meaning.~SOCRATES: By the dog of Egypt I have
 403 Text |                HERMOGENES: How is that, Socrates?~SOCRATES: Perhaps you did
 404 Text |                  How is that, Socrates?~SOCRATES: Perhaps you did not observe
 405 Text |                  I never thought of it.~SOCRATES: Take the first of those
 406 Text |          HERMOGENES: What was the name?~SOCRATES: Phronesis (wisdom), which
 407 Text |         mentioned.~HERMOGENES: I think, Socrates, that you are not improvising
 408 Text |                this from some one else.~SOCRATES: And not the rest?~HERMOGENES:
 409 Text |               rest?~HERMOGENES: Hardly.~SOCRATES: Well, then, let me go on
 410 Text |                That is surely probable.~SOCRATES: Yes; and the very word
 411 Text |            explained.~HERMOGENES: True.~SOCRATES: There is the meaning of
 412 Text |                  HERMOGENES: Very true.~SOCRATES: That may be identified
 413 Text |                a very shabby etymology.~SOCRATES: Yes, my dear friend; but
 414 Text |         HERMOGENES: That is quite true, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And yet, if you
 415 Text |                is quite true, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And yet, if you are permitted
 416 Text |               object.~HERMOGENES: True.~SOCRATES: Yes, that is true. And
 417 Text |          HERMOGENES: Such is my desire.~SOCRATES: And mine, too, Hermogenes.
 418 Text |                your previous discourse?~SOCRATES: That is a very singular
 419 Text |                HERMOGENES: What device?~SOCRATES: The device of a foreign
 420 Text |        rationale of kalon and aischron.~SOCRATES: The meaning of aischron
 421 Text |               what do you say of kalon?~SOCRATES: That is more obscure; yet
 422 Text |           HERMOGENES: What do you mean?~SOCRATES: This name appears to denote
 423 Text |               mind.~HERMOGENES: How so?~SOCRATES: Let me ask you what is
 424 Text |                  HERMOGENES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And must not this be the
 425 Text |               of both?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Is not mind that which
 426 Text |            HERMOGENES: That is evident.~SOCRATES: And are not the works of
 427 Text |                  HERMOGENES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Physic does the work of
 428 Text |         carpenter?~HERMOGENES: Exactly.~SOCRATES: And the principle of beauty
 429 Text |                  HERMOGENES: Of course.~SOCRATES: And that principle we affirm
 430 Text |                  HERMOGENES: Very true.~SOCRATES: Then mind is rightly called
 431 Text |            HERMOGENES: That is evident.~SOCRATES: What more names remain
 432 Text |         kerdaleon, and their opposites.~SOCRATES: The meaning of sumpheron (
 433 Text |           HERMOGENES: That is probable.~SOCRATES: Again, cherdaleon (gainful)
 434 Text |                lusiteloun (profitable)?~SOCRATES: I suppose, Hermogenes,
 435 Text |                 say of their opposites?~SOCRATES: Of such as are mere negatives
 436 Text |             HERMOGENES: Which are they?~SOCRATES: The words axumphoron (inexpedient),
 437 Text |           ungainful).~HERMOGENES: True.~SOCRATES: I would rather take the
 438 Text |             hurtful).~HERMOGENES: Good.~SOCRATES: The word blaberon is that
 439 Text |              bring out curious results, Socrates, in the use of names; and
 440 Text |                 some prelude to Athene.~SOCRATES: That is the fault of the
 441 Text |                 derivation of zemiodes?~SOCRATES: What is the meaning of
 442 Text |           HERMOGENES: What do you mean?~SOCRATES: I will try to explain.
 443 Text |            HERMOGENES: How do you mean?~SOCRATES: For example, in very ancient
 444 Text |               HERMOGENES: That is true.~SOCRATES: Do you observe that only
 445 Text |            desire.~HERMOGENES: Clearly.~SOCRATES: But now the name is so
 446 Text |            HERMOGENES: Such is my view.~SOCRATES: And do you know that the
 447 Text |                HERMOGENES: They did so.~SOCRATES: And zugon (yoke) has no
 448 Text |                  HERMOGENES: There are.~SOCRATES: Proceeding in the same
 449 Text |              blaberon.~HERMOGENES: Yes, Socrates; that is quite plain.~SOCRATES:
 450 Text |          Socrates; that is quite plain.~SOCRATES: Not if you restore the
 451 Text |                  desire), and the like, Socrates?~SOCRATES: I do not think,
 452 Text |                 and the like, Socrates?~SOCRATES: I do not think, Hermogenes,
 453 Text |                and that class of words?~SOCRATES: Doxa is either derived
 454 Text |               quickening your pace now, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Why yes, the
 455 Text |                your pace now, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Why yes, the end I now
 456 Text |                 has this name of onoma.~SOCRATES: You know the word maiesthai (
 457 Text |                 as zetein (to enquire).~SOCRATES: The word onoma seems to
 458 Text |                  show me their fitness.~SOCRATES: You mean to say, how should
 459 Text |            answer him?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: One way of giving the appearance
 460 Text |        suggested.~HERMOGENES: What way?~SOCRATES: To say that names which
 461 Text |                HERMOGENES: Very likely.~SOCRATES: Yes, very likely. But still
 462 Text |                  HERMOGENES: Very true.~SOCRATES: And at what point ought
 463 Text |                 you to be in the right.~SOCRATES: And suppose the names about
 464 Text |                HERMOGENES: Very likely.~SOCRATES: Quite so, Hermogenes; all
 465 Text |               do my best to assist you.~SOCRATES: I think that you will acknowledge
 466 Text |              HERMOGENES: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: All the names that we have
 467 Text |                  HERMOGENES: Of course.~SOCRATES: And that this is true of
 468 Text |              names.~HERMOGENES: Surely.~SOCRATES: But the secondary, as I
 469 Text |            HERMOGENES: That is evident.~SOCRATES: Very good; but then how
 470 Text |               There would be no choice, Socrates.~SOCRATES: We should imitate
 471 Text |                 be no choice, Socrates.~SOCRATES: We should imitate the nature
 472 Text |                 could do anything else.~SOCRATES: We could not; for by bodily
 473 Text |                  HERMOGENES: Very true.~SOCRATES: And when we want to express
 474 Text |                 It must be so, I think.~SOCRATES: Then a name is a vocal
 475 Text |                 HERMOGENES: I think so.~SOCRATES: Nay, my friend, I am disposed
 476 Text |               yet.~HERMOGENES: Why not?~SOCRATES: Because if we have we shall
 477 Text |                 HERMOGENES: Quite true.~SOCRATES: Then could I have been
 478 Text |                 that you would tell me, Socrates, what sort of an imitation
 479 Text |                 an imitation is a name?~SOCRATES: In the first place, I should
 480 Text |                  HERMOGENES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: But the art of naming appears
 481 Text |              drawing?~HERMOGENES: True.~SOCRATES: Again, is there not an
 482 Text |          HERMOGENES: I should think so.~SOCRATES: Well, and if any one could
 483 Text |            thing?~HERMOGENES: Quite so.~SOCRATES: The musician and the painter
 484 Text |                  HERMOGENES: I imagine, Socrates, that he must be the namer,
 485 Text |               of whom we are in search.~SOCRATES: If this is true, then I
 486 Text |                  HERMOGENES: Very good.~SOCRATES: But are these the only
 487 Text |       HERMOGENES: There must be others.~SOCRATES: So I should expect. But
 488 Text |               rhythms?~HERMOGENES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Must we not begin in the
 489 Text |            direction.~HERMOGENES: That, Socrates, I can quite believe.~SOCRATES:
 490 Text |          Socrates, I can quite believe.~SOCRATES: Well, but do you suppose
 491 Text |                 am I likely to be able.~SOCRATES: Shall we leave them, then?
 492 Text |        HERMOGENES: I very much approve.~SOCRATES: That objects should be
 493 Text |                  HERMOGENES: Certainly, Socrates.~SOCRATES: My first notions
 494 Text |        HERMOGENES: Certainly, Socrates.~SOCRATES: My first notions of original
 495 Text |                 not; I will do my best.~SOCRATES: In the first place, the
 496 Text |                to say.~HERMOGENES: But, Socrates, as I was telling you before,
 497 Text |                 here in the presence of Socrates, do you agree in what Socrates
 498 Text |          Socrates, do you agree in what Socrates has been saying about names,
 499 Text |                you will either learn of Socrates, or Socrates and I will
 500 Text |            either learn of Socrates, or Socrates and I will learn of you.~