(...) The Republic
     Book
4501 4    |            unreformed? ~In my judgment, Socrates, the question has now become
4502 5    |               MATRIMONY AND PHILOSOPHY~(SOCRATES, GLAUCON, ADEIMANTUS.) ~
4503 5    |              should have a limit. ~Yes, Socrates, said Glaucon, and the whole
4504 5    |           laughed and said: Well, then, Socrates, in case you and your argument
4505 5    |              opponents. They will say: "Socrates and Glaucon, no adversary
4506 5    |             valor. ~That is quite true, Socrates; and yet if they are defeated,
4507 5    |                   But still I must say, Socrates, that if you are allowed
4508 5    |                is indeed a hard thing. ~Socrates, what do you mean? I would
4509 6    |               PHILOSOPHY OF GOVERNMENT~(SOCRATES, GLAUCON.) ~AND thus, Glaucon,
4510 6    |              said: To these statements, Socrates, no one can offer a reply;
4511 6    |               given in a parable. ~Yes, Socrates; and that is a way of speaking
4512 6    |                  such will he be? ~Yes, Socrates; necessity will compel him. ~
4513 6    |               truly in earnest you are, Socrates! he said; I am sure of that;
4514 6    |             about these matters. ~True, Socrates; but I must say that one
4515 6    |              Still, I must implore you, Socrates, said Glaucon, not to turn
4516 7    |                 REALITIES IN EDUCATION~(SOCRATES, GLAUCON.) ~AND now, I said,
4517 7    |                followed. ~That is true, Socrates; but so little seems to
4518 7    |             order, he replied. And now, Socrates, as you rebuked the vulgar
4519 7    |               so; but you are speaking, Socrates, of a vast work. ~What do
4520 7    |            divine. ~You are a sculptor, Socrates, and have made statues of
4521 7    |              the best way. And I think, Socrates, that you have very well
4522 8    |               FOUR FORMS OF GOVERNMENT~(SOCRATES, GLAUCON.) ~AND so, Glaucon,
4523 8    |               is of the hive? ~Just so, Socrates. ~And God has made the flying
4524 9    |              AND THE PLEASURES OF EACH~(SOCRATES, ADEIMANTUS.) ~LAST of all
4525 9    |               and incontinent. ~Verily, Socrates, said Glaucon, you describe
4526 10   |                 THE RECOMPENSE OF LIFE~(SOCRATES, GLAUCON.) ~OF the many
4527 10   |           recorded of him. For, surely, Socrates, Creophylus, the companion
4528 10   |                 education enough? ~Yes, Socrates, that, I think, is quite


The Second Alcibiades
     Part
4529 Pre  |               characters are ill-drawn. Socrates assumes the ‘superior person’
4530 Text |                PERSONS OF THE DIALOGUE: Socrates and Alcibiades.~SOCRATES:
4531 Text |                Socrates and Alcibiades.~SOCRATES: Are you going, Alcibiades,
4532 Text |               to Zeus?~ALCIBIADES: Yes, Socrates, I am.~SOCRATES: you seem
4533 Text |        ALCIBIADES: Yes, Socrates, I am.~SOCRATES: you seem to be troubled
4534 Text |             suppose that I am thinking?~SOCRATES: Of the greatest of all
4535 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Do you not imagine, then,
4536 Text |                dilate?~ALCIBIADES: Yes, Socrates, but you are speaking of
4537 Text |          venture to make such a prayer?~SOCRATES: Madness, then, you consider
4538 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Of course.~SOCRATES: And some men seem to you
4539 Text |          contrary?~ALCIBIADES: They do.~SOCRATES: Well, then, let us discuss
4540 Text |               are mad?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And again, there are some
4541 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: There are.~SOCRATES: While others are ailing?~
4542 Text |                ailing?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And they are not the same?~
4543 Text |              ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: Nor are there any who are
4544 Text |          neither state?~ALCIBIADES: No.~SOCRATES: A man must either be sick
4545 Text |         ALCIBIADES: That is my opinion.~SOCRATES: Very good: and do you think
4546 Text |            ALCIBIADES: How do you mean?~SOCRATES: Do you believe that a man
4547 Text |              ALCIBIADES: Decidedly not.~SOCRATES: He must be either sane
4548 Text |               ALCIBIADES: So I suppose.~SOCRATES: Did you not acknowledge
4549 Text |            discretion?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And that there is no third
4550 Text |         indiscretion?~ALCIBIADES: True.~SOCRATES: And there cannot be two
4551 Text |               ALCIBIADES: There cannot.~SOCRATES: Then madness and want of
4552 Text |                 appears to be the case.~SOCRATES: We shall be in the right,
4553 Text |                 many?~ALCIBIADES: I do.~SOCRATES: But how could we live in
4554 Text |             otherwise?~ALCIBIADES: Why, Socrates, how is that possible? I
4555 Text |                must have been mistaken.~SOCRATES: So it seems to me. But
4556 Text |                 thus:—~ALCIBIADES: How?~SOCRATES: I will tell you. We think
4557 Text |                we not?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And must every sick person
4558 Text |              ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: And is every kind of ophthalmia
4559 Text |               disease?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And every disease ophthalmia?~
4560 Text |          understand what I mean myself.~SOCRATES: Perhaps, if you give me
4561 Text |             ALCIBIADES: I am attending, Socrates, to the best of my power.~
4562 Text |                to the best of my power.~SOCRATES: We are agreed, then, that
4563 Text |         ophthalmia?~ALCIBIADES: We are.~SOCRATES: And so far we seem to be
4564 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: There are cobblers and
4565 Text |                 ALCIBIADES: No, indeed.~SOCRATES: And in like manner men
4566 Text |           ALCIBIADES: I agree with you.~SOCRATES: Then let us return to the
4567 Text |                 ALCIBIADES: To be sure.~SOCRATES: And you regard those as
4568 Text |               or said?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: The senseless are those
4569 Text |                 this?~ALCIBIADES: True.~SOCRATES: The latter will say or
4570 Text |         knowledge?~ALCIBIADES: Exactly.~SOCRATES: Oedipus, as I was saying,
4571 Text |             ALCIBIADES: And not only I, Socrates, but any one else who should
4572 Text |             should meet with such luck.~SOCRATES: Yet you would not accept
4573 Text |               use could I make of them?~SOCRATES: And would you accept them
4574 Text |                ALCIBIADES: I would not.~SOCRATES: You see that it is not
4575 Text |            ALCIBIADES: It is difficult, Socrates, to oppose what has been
4576 Text |             like a curse than a prayer.~SOCRATES: But perhaps, my good friend,
4577 Text |                in any conceivable case?~SOCRATES: So I believe:—you do not
4578 Text |              ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: And yet surely I may not
4579 Text |                 ALCIBIADES: Good words, Socrates, prithee.~SOCRATES: You
4580 Text |               words, Socrates, prithee.~SOCRATES: You ought not to bid him
4581 Text |              ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: Nor would any one else,
4582 Text |                I fancy?~ALCIBIADES: No.~SOCRATES: That ignorance is bad then,
4583 Text |       ALCIBIADES: So I think, at least.~SOCRATES: And both to the person
4584 Text |        everybody else?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Let us take another case.
4585 Text |               is best?~ALCIBIADES: No.)~SOCRATES:—If, then, you went indoors,
4586 Text |                omitted in several MSS.)~SOCRATES: For you designed to kill,
4587 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And if you made many attempts,
4588 Text |                 him?~ALCIBIADES: Never.~SOCRATES: Well, but if Orestes in
4589 Text |               upon her?~ALCIBIADES: No.~SOCRATES: He did not intend to slay
4590 Text |              his own?~ALCIBIADES: True.~SOCRATES: Ignorance, then, is better
4591 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Obviously.~SOCRATES: You acknowledge that for
4592 Text |             supposed?~ALCIBIADES: I do.~SOCRATES: And there is still another
4593 Text |               ALCIBIADES: What is that, Socrates?~SOCRATES: It may be, in
4594 Text |                 What is that, Socrates?~SOCRATES: It may be, in short, that
4595 Text |         ALCIBIADES: Yes, in my opinion.~SOCRATES: We may take the orators
4596 Text |              orators.~ALCIBIADES: True.~SOCRATES: But now see what follows,
4597 Text |               foolish?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: The many are foolish, the
4598 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And you use both the terms, ‘
4599 Text |            something?~ALCIBIADES: I do.~SOCRATES: Would you call a person
4600 Text |              ALCIBIADES: Decidedly not.~SOCRATES: Nor again, I suppose, a
4601 Text |               how long?~ALCIBIADES: No.~SOCRATES: Nor, once more, a person
4602 Text |              ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: But he who understands
4603 Text |                 same?—~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES:—Such an one, I say, we
4604 Text |             think?~ALCIBIADES: I agree.~SOCRATES: And if any one knows how
4605 Text |                 rider?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And in a similar way you
4606 Text |            other art?~ALCIBIADES: True.~SOCRATES: But is it necessary that
4607 Text |                difference in the world.~SOCRATES: And what sort of a state
4608 Text |           should call such a state bad, Socrates.~SOCRATES: You certainly
4609 Text |             such a state bad, Socrates.~SOCRATES: You certainly would when
4610 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Decidedly.~SOCRATES: But ought we not then,
4611 Text |                or say?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And if a person does that
4612 Text |                state?~ALCIBIADES: True.~SOCRATES: And if he do the contrary,
4613 Text |                suffer?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Well, and are you of the
4614 Text |               before?~ALCIBIADES: I am.~SOCRATES: But were you not saying
4615 Text |                wise?~ALCIBIADES: I was.~SOCRATES: And have we not come back
4616 Text |           ALCIBIADES: That is the case.~SOCRATES: It is good, then, for the
4617 Text |              What you say is very true.~SOCRATES: Do you not see that I was
4618 Text |               now, if I did not before, Socrates.~SOCRATES: The state or
4619 Text |               did not before, Socrates.~SOCRATES: The state or the soul,
4620 Text |           ALCIBIADES: How in the world, Socrates, do the words of the poet
4621 Text |          bearing on the point whatever.~SOCRATES: Quite the contrary, my
4622 Text |               do not think that it has, Socrates: at least, if the argument
4623 Text |            another which I could trust.~SOCRATES: And you are right in thinking
4624 Text |               Well, that is my opinion.~SOCRATES: But tell me, by Heaven:—
4625 Text |        opportunity?~ALCIBIADES: Indeed, Socrates, I could not answer you
4626 Text |               from the ‘Margites’ which Socrates has just made; but it is
4627 Text |             what he at first requested.~SOCRATES: And was not the poet whose
4628 Text |             believe that you are right.~SOCRATES: The Lacedaemonians, too,
4629 Text |           matters.~ALCIBIADES: I agree, Socrates, with you and with the God,
4630 Text |            unbecoming for me to oppose.~SOCRATES: Do you not remember saying
4631 Text |                 good?~ALCIBIADES: I do.~SOCRATES: You see, then, that there
4632 Text |               And how long must I wait, Socrates, and who will be my teacher?
4633 Text |               very glad to see the man.~SOCRATES: It is he who takes an especial
4634 Text |                 be the better for them.~SOCRATES: And surely he has a wondrous
4635 Text |            sacrifice until he is found.~SOCRATES: You are right: that will
4636 Text |                But how shall we manage, Socrates?—At any rate I will set
4637 Text |                 hence, if they so will.~SOCRATES: I accept your gift, and


The Seventh Letter
     Part
4638 Text |                friend of mine, the aged Socrates, whom I should scarcely
4639 Text |                 power brought my friend Socrates, whom I have mentioned,


The Sophist
     Part
4640 Intro|          dispelled by Aristotle, but by Socrates and Plato. The summa genera
4641 Intro|                 the final retirement of Socrates from the field of argument,
4642 Intro|           intimate by the withdrawal of Socrates that he is passing beyond
4643 Intro|               longer under the spell of Socrates, or subject to the operation
4644 Intro|            Throughout the two dialogues Socrates continues a silent auditor,
4645 Intro|                the almost equally ideal Socrates. He seems to be always growing
4646 Intro|                 part on good terms with Socrates. But he is speaking of a
4647 Intro|                applied indifferently to Socrates and Plato, as well as to
4648 Intro|               certain contemporaries of Socrates. Would an Athenian, as Mr.
4649 Intro|            before Christ, have included Socrates and Plato, as well as Gorgias
4650 Intro|             ever the term is applied to Socrates and Plato, either the application
4651 Intro|              the Sophists of the age of Socrates, who appeared like meteors
4652 Intro|                 the purposes of comedy, Socrates may have been identified
4653 Intro|               no reason to suppose that Socrates, differing by so many outward
4654 Intro|          disadvantage in the company of Socrates. But he has no quarrel with
4655 Intro|          themselves from disputing with Socrates by making long orations.
4656 Intro|                 men after the manner of Socrates, and make them teach themselves.
4657 Intro|                 still the antithesis of Socrates and of the true teacher.~
4658 Intro|                  as well as to those of Socrates; and unless they are the
4659 Intro|           Theodorus and Theaetetus meet Socrates at the same spot, bringing
4660 Intro|       introduces as a true philosopher. Socrates, half in jest, half in earnest,
4661 Intro|               statesman, sophist,’ says Socrates, repeating the words—‘I
4662 Intro|                is recommended to him by Socrates.~We are agreed, he says,
4663 Intro|                 language. The saying of Socrates respecting the writings
4664 Intro|           measure of all things,’ which Socrates presented in a new form
4665 Intro|              their own. The thoughts of Socrates and Plato and Aristotle
4666 Intro|                 the spirit of Plato and Socrates, rebels against the Hegelian
4667 Intro|                 What is the teaching of Socrates apart from his personal
4668 Text |                  Theodorus, Theaetetus, Socrates. An Eleatic Stranger, whom
4669 Text |            bring with them. The younger Socrates, who is a silent auditor.~
4670 Text |                 THEODORUS: Here we are, Socrates, true to our agreement of
4671 Text |                 and a true philosopher.~SOCRATES: Is he not rather a god,
4672 Text |       cross-examine us?~THEODORUS: Nay, Socrates, he is not one of the disputatious
4673 Text |               give to all philosophers.~SOCRATES: Capital, my friend! and
4674 Text |                  THEODORUS: What terms?~SOCRATES: Sophist, statesman, philosopher.~
4675 Text |                  and what made you ask?~SOCRATES: I want to know whether
4676 Text |                 have happened to light, Socrates, almost on the very question
4677 Text |               he remembered the answer.~SOCRATES: Then do not, Stranger,
4678 Text |                 rather have my own say.~SOCRATES: Any one of the present
4679 Text |               STRANGER: I feel ashamed, Socrates, being a new-comer into
4680 Text |              the rest of the company as Socrates imagines?~STRANGER: You
4681 Text |               get my friend here, young Socrates, the namesake of the elder
4682 Text |               the namesake of the elder Socrates, to help; he is about my
4683 Text |             such a thing were possible!~SOCRATES: But how can any one who


The Statesman
     Part
4684 Intro|                of place. The invincible Socrates is withdrawn from view;
4685 Intro|              illustrations. The younger Socrates resembles his namesake in
4686 Intro|            which show that the irony of Socrates was a lesson which Plato
4687 Intro|               be filled up as follows:—~SOCRATES: I have reason to thank
4688 Intro|                 as well as the Sophist.~SOCRATES: Does the great geometrician
4689 Intro|            THEODORUS: By the god Ammon, Socrates, you are right; and I am
4690 Intro|               allowed to rest, and that Socrates the younger shall respond
4691 Intro|           agrees to the suggestion, and Socrates remarks that the name of
4692 Intro|                  No matter.’ Very good, Socrates, and if you are not too
4693 Intro|                state of existence?’ No, Socrates, that blessed and spontaneous
4694 Intro|     Introduction to Critias). The young Socrates has heard of the sun rising
4695 Intro|               ready assent of the young Socrates, who is not too old to be
4696 Intro|             science. In the Protagoras, Socrates was maintaining that there
4697 Text |                THE DIALOGUE: Theodorus, Socrates, The Eleatic Stranger, The
4698 Text |           Eleatic Stranger, The Younger Socrates.~SOCRATES: I owe you many
4699 Text |         Stranger, The Younger Socrates.~SOCRATES: I owe you many thanks,
4700 Text |                  And in a little while, Socrates, you will owe me three times
4701 Text |                 well as of the Sophist.~SOCRATES: Sophist, statesman, philosopher!
4702 Text |            THEODORUS: What do you mean, Socrates?~SOCRATES: I mean that you
4703 Text |             What do you mean, Socrates?~SOCRATES: I mean that you rate them
4704 Text |               Ammon, the god of Cyrene, Socrates, that is a very fair hit;
4705 Text |                his companion, the Young Socrates, instead of him? What do
4706 Text |                 have intervals of rest.~SOCRATES: I think, Stranger, that
4707 Text |              STRANGER: Very good. Young Socrates, do you hear what the elder
4708 Text |                 you hear what the elder Socrates is proposing?~YOUNG SOCRATES:
4709 Text |            Socrates is proposing?~YOUNG SOCRATES: I do.~STRANGER: And do
4710 Text |            agree to his proposal?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: As
4711 Text |                 who have science.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: Then the
4712 Text |                divided as before?~YOUNG SOCRATES: I dare say.~STRANGER: But
4713 Text |             will not be the same?~YOUNG SOCRATES: How then?~STRANGER: They
4714 Text |                 some other point.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: Where shall
4715 Text |                under two classes.~YOUNG SOCRATES: To find the path is your
4716 Text |                not mine.~STRANGER: Yes, Socrates, but the discovery, when
4717 Text |            yours as well as mine.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very good.~STRANGER: Well,
4718 Text |            separated from action?~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: But in
4719 Text |         previously did not exist.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: Then
4720 Text |              purely intellectual.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Let us assume these two
4721 Text |            matter in another way.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Let me hear.~STRANGER:
4722 Text |               called a physician?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: And if any
4723 Text |            himself ought to have?~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: But surely
4724 Text |                 is royal science?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: And will
4725 Text |             truly called ‘royal’?~YOUNG SOCRATES: He certainly ought to be.~
4726 Text |              master are the same?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Of course.~STRANGER: Again,
4727 Text |          government is concerned?~YOUNG SOCRATES: They will not.~STRANGER:
4728 Text |               one about the name.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly not.~STRANGER:
4729 Text |             strength of his mind.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Clearly not.~STRANGER:
4730 Text |        practical life in general?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly he has.~STRANGER:
4731 Text |             science and the king.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Clearly.~STRANGER: And
4732 Text |              sphere of knowledge?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very good.~STRANGER: Think
4733 Text |             parting in knowledge.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Tell me of what sort.~STRANGER:
4734 Text |               art of calculation?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: Which was,
4735 Text |                arts of knowledge?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: And
4736 Text |                their differences?~YOUNG SOCRATES: How could we?~STRANGER:
4737 Text |                 ruler of workmen?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: He contributes
4738 Text |                not manual labour?~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: And may
4739 Text |              theoretical science?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Quite true.~STRANGER: But
4740 Text |               completed the work.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: Are not
4741 Text |                of ruling as well?~YOUNG SOCRATES: That is evident.~STRANGER:
4742 Text |               other which judges?~YOUNG SOCRATES: I should think so.~STRANGER:
4743 Text |                a desirable thing?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: Then
4744 Text |                fancies of others?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly not.~STRANGER:
4745 Text |                for he is a ruler?~YOUNG SOCRATES: The latter, clearly.~STRANGER:
4746 Text |             king from the herald.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How is this?~STRANGER:
4747 Text |                 been sold before?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly he does.~STRANGER:
4748 Text |              give them to others?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: Then
4749 Text |               who is not a ruler.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very good.~STRANGER: Thus
4750 Text |                 further division.~YOUNG SOCRATES: By all means.~STRANGER:
4751 Text |              making the division.~YOUNG SOCRATES: At what point?~STRANGER:
4752 Text |              producing something?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: Nor
4753 Text |                 into two classes.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How would you divide them?~
4754 Text |                 are without life.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: And by
4755 Text |         knowledge which commands.~YOUNG SOCRATES: At what point?~STRANGER:
4756 Text |            whole will be divided.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: That
4757 Text |                 divided into two.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Which of the two halves
4758 Text |                 of living beings.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: And the
4759 Text |              creatures in flocks?~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: But the
4760 Text |                of horses or oxen.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes, I see, thanks to you.~
4761 Text |            collective management?~YOUNG SOCRATES: No matter;—whichever suggests
4762 Text |      conversation.~STRANGER: Very good, Socrates; and, if you continue to
4763 Text |                 half that number?~YOUNG SOCRATES: I will try;—there appears
4764 Text |                 had better avoid.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What is the error?~STRANGER:
4765 Text |               process of enquiry.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What do you mean, Stranger?~
4766 Text |                love to your good parts, Socrates; and, although I cannot
4767 Text |                 a little clearer.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What was the error of which,
4768 Text |                were also classes.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true; but I wish that
4769 Text |           somewhat plainer.~STRANGER: O Socrates, best of men, you are imposing
4770 Text |                 heard me declare—~YOUNG SOCRATES: What?~STRANGER: That a
4771 Text |                part are distinct.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What did I hear, then?~
4772 Text |                 you to attribute to me, Socrates.~YOUNG SOCRATES: So be it.~
4773 Text |        attribute to me, Socrates.~YOUNG SOCRATES: So be it.~STRANGER: There
4774 Text |              should like to know.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What is it?~STRANGER: The
4775 Text |              making up the other.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: I thought
4776 Text |            common name of brutes.~YOUNG SOCRATES: That again is true.~STRANGER:
4777 Text |                must try to avoid.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How can we be safe?~STRANGER:
4778 Text |             fall into that error.~YOUNG SOCRATES: We had better not take
4779 Text |              our former division.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How?~STRANGER: You remember
4780 Text |                 animals in herds?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: In that
4781 Text |            tamed are called wild.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: And the
4782 Text |               gregarious animals.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: But then
4783 Text |               the proverb speaks.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What misfortune?~STRANGER:
4784 Text |                 too little speed.~YOUNG SOCRATES: And all the better, Stranger;—
4785 Text |              know. Tell me, then—~YOUNG SOCRATES: What?~STRANGER: Have you
4786 Text |                 in wells at home?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes, to be sure, I have
4787 Text |               plains of Thessaly?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: I
4788 Text |               and of water herds.~YOUNG SOCRATES: There is.~STRANGER: And
4789 Text |            rearing of land herds?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: There is
4790 Text |             evident to everybody.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: Any
4791 Text |                 feed on dry land?~YOUNG SOCRATES: How would you divide them?~
4792 Text |                 those which walk.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Most true.~STRANGER: And
4793 Text |               he is a pedestrian?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: The
4794 Text |             halve an even number.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Clearly.~STRANGER: Let
4795 Text |              whichever we please.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Cannot we have both ways?~
4796 Text |                  you clearly may.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Then I should like to have
4797 Text |           attend to the division.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Let me hear.~STRANGER:
4798 Text |                 into two classes.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Upon what principle?~STRANGER:
4799 Text |                 is without horns.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Clearly.~STRANGER: Suppose
4800 Text |              intricacy too great.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How must I speak of them,
4801 Text |                that has no horns.~YOUNG SOCRATES: All that you say has been
4802 Text |                who have no horns.~YOUNG SOCRATES: That is evident.~STRANGER:
4803 Text |               to him what is his?~YOUNG SOCRATES: By all means.~STRANGER:
4804 Text |                 know what I mean.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What?~STRANGER: I mean
4805 Text |                 from one another.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: But the
4806 Text |                not mix the breed.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: And
4807 Text |                 the unmixed race?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Clearly of the unmixed.~
4808 Text |             this again as before.~YOUNG SOCRATES: We must.~STRANGER: Every
4809 Text |               gregarious animals.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly not; but how
4810 Text |             students of geometry.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What is that?~STRANGER:
4811 Text |         diameter. (Compare Meno.)~YOUNG SOCRATES: What do you mean?~STRANGER:
4812 Text |                power is two feet?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Just so.~STRANGER: And
4813 Text |         diameter of our diameter.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly; and now I think
4814 Text |           STRANGER: In these divisions, Socrates, I descry what would make
4815 Text |              another famous jest.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What is it?~STRANGER: Human
4816 Text |                 a race with them.~YOUNG SOCRATES: I remark that very singular
4817 Text |           slowest to arrive last?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Indeed I should.~STRANGER:
4818 Text |            laziest of creation.’)~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: Then
4819 Text |         Certainly.~STRANGER: Then here, Socrates, is still clearer evidence
4820 Text |                 Compare Sophist.)~YOUNG SOCRATES: What?~STRANGER: That the
4821 Text |                the truest result.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Clearly.~STRANGER: And
4822 Text |             definition of a king.~YOUNG SOCRATES: By all means.~STRANGER:
4823 Text |             which belongs to him.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very good; you have paid
4824 Text |              the Statesman’s art.~YOUNG SOCRATES: By all means.~STRANGER:
4825 Text |              royal and political.~YOUNG SOCRATES: To be sure.~STRANGER: And
4826 Text |             STRANGER: And do you think, Socrates, that we really have done
4827 Text |             have done as you say?~YOUNG SOCRATES: What?~STRANGER: Do you
4828 Text |                the enquiry fails.~YOUNG SOCRATES: I do not understand.~STRANGER:
4829 Text |               clearer to us both.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Let me hear.~STRANGER:
4830 Text |              one particular herd?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: And this
4831 Text |                 man collectively?~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: Note, however,
4832 Text |              all other shepherds.~YOUNG SOCRATES: To what do you refer?~STRANGER:
4833 Text |           management of the herd?~YOUNG SOCRATES: What do you mean?~STRANGER:
4834 Text |                rulers themselves.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Are they not right in saying
4835 Text |               animals in general.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: But
4836 Text |               of the human flock?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Surely not.~STRANGER: Had
4837 Text |                 his prerogatives?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: And
4838 Text |               true.~STRANGER: And that, Socrates, is what we must do, if
4839 Text |            argument at its close.~YOUNG SOCRATES: We must certainly avoid
4840 Text |                 a different road.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What road?~STRANGER: I
4841 Text |             Shall we do as I say?~YOUNG SOCRATES: By all means.~STRANGER:
4842 Text |               childish amusement.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Let me hear.~STRANGER:
4843 Text |            happened at that time?~YOUNG SOCRATES: I suppose you to mean the
4844 Text |              the right of Atreus.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes; there is that legend
4845 Text |              the reign of Cronos.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes, very often.~STRANGER:
4846 Text |          begotten of one another?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes, that is another old
4847 Text |               nature of the king.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very good; and I hope that
4848 Text |               opposite direction.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Why is that?~STRANGER:
4849 Text |               the smallest pivot.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Your account of the world
4850 Text |              wonders. It is this.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What?~STRANGER: The reversal
4851 Text |           motion of the universe.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How is that the cause?~
4852 Text |                and most complete.~YOUNG SOCRATES: I should imagine so.~STRANGER:
4853 Text |                world at the time.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Such changes would naturally
4854 Text |                upon them at once.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: Hence
4855 Text |                we are now living.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What is it?~STRANGER: The
4856 Text |                were no more seen.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Then how, Stranger, were
4857 Text |                STRANGER: It is evident, Socrates, that there was no such
4858 Text |            legend clings to them.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly that is quite
4859 Text |              man in the days of Cronos, Socrates; the character of our present
4860 Text |                 deem the happier?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Impossible.~STRANGER: Then
4861 Text |                 as well as I can?~YOUNG SOCRATES: By all means.~STRANGER:
4862 Text |               previous discourse.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What was this great error
4863 Text |                and grander scale.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What do you mean?~STRANGER:
4864 Text |               great as the first.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very good.~STRANGER: Before
4865 Text |             nature of his office.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: And
4866 Text |             care of human beings.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: And
4867 Text |                 I cannot help thinking, Socrates, that the form of the divine
4868 Text |           breeding and education.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: Still
4869 Text |                a level with them.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Of course.~STRANGER: To
4870 Text |                of rearing a herd?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes, I remember.~STRANGER:
4871 Text |                 our nomenclature.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How was that?~STRANGER:
4872 Text |               common to them all.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True, if there be such
4873 Text |                 seems to require.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Quite right; but how shall
4874 Text |               the rule of Cronos.~YOUNG SOCRATES: That is clear; but I still
4875 Text |                art than any king.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: But no
4876 Text |              over men in general.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Quite true.~STRANGER: In
4877 Text |            STRANGER: In the next place, Socrates, we must surely notice that
4878 Text |              end of our analysis.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What was it?~STRANGER:
4879 Text |               no more to be said.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly not.~STRANGER:
4880 Text |           considerable divisions.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How can they be made?~STRANGER:
4881 Text |              guardian or manager.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: And the
4882 Text |                 to be subdivided.~YOUNG SOCRATES: On what principle?~STRANGER:
4883 Text |         voluntary and compulsory.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Why?~STRANGER: Because,
4884 Text |              modes of government.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: Then, now,
4885 Text |         voluntary and compulsory.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: And
4886 Text |               king and statesman?~YOUNG SOCRATES: I think, Stranger, that
4887 Text |            STRANGER: Would that we had, Socrates, but I have to satisfy myself
4888 Text |             sort by works of art.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true; but what is
4889 Text |              and to know nothing.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What do you mean?~STRANGER:
4890 Text |          experience of knowledge.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Why so?~STRANGER: Why,
4891 Text |               of another example.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Proceed; you need not fear
4892 Text |               know their letters—~YOUNG SOCRATES: What are you going to say?~
4893 Text |              tell them correctly.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: Whereas
4894 Text |            speak falsely of them.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: Will
4895 Text |               not as yet know be—~YOUNG SOCRATES: Be what?~STRANGER: To refer
4896 Text |                 by the same name.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: Are
4897 Text |            includes both of them.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Exactly.~STRANGER: Can
4898 Text |                 ignorant of them?~YOUNG SOCRATES: There is nothing wonderful
4899 Text |                 to attain wisdom?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Hardly.~STRANGER: Then
4900 Text |           become a reality to us.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: Then,
4901 Text |               first to be framed.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Exactly.~STRANGER: What
4902 Text |          political occupation? Suppose, Socrates, that if we have no other
4903 Text |           illustrate our meaning?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: Why
4904 Text |           needed for our purpose?~YOUNG SOCRATES: How do you mean?~STRANGER:
4905 Text |           performing the process.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very good.~STRANGER: All
4906 Text |               from the political?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Most true.~STRANGER: In
4907 Text |                co-operative arts.~YOUNG SOCRATES: And which are the kindred
4908 Text |              termed kindred arts.~YOUNG SOCRATES: I understand.~STRANGER:
4909 Text |                the cobbler’s art.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Precisely.~STRANGER: Then
4910 Text |              the name of weaving.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: Yes,
4911 Text |              opposite of weaving.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How so?~STRANGER: Weaving
4912 Text |                a sort of uniting?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: But the
4913 Text |                and matted fibres?~YOUNG SOCRATES: What do you mean?~STRANGER:
4914 Text |               carder is a weaver.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly not.~STRANGER:
4915 Text |            paradoxical and false.~YOUNG SOCRATES: To be sure.~STRANGER: Shall
4916 Text |               as arts of weaving?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly not.~STRANGER:
4917 Text |             field for themselves.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: Besides
4918 Text |               work of the weaver.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Most true.~STRANGER: Well,
4919 Text |               first cleared away?~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: Then the
4920 Text |                 a regular manner?~YOUNG SOCRATES: By all means.~STRANGER:
4921 Text |           everything which we do.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What are they?~STRANGER:
4922 Text |              the principal cause.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What do you mean?~STRANGER:
4923 Text |            themselves are causal.~YOUNG SOCRATES: A very reasonable distinction.~
4924 Text |               themselves, causal.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: The
4925 Text |                 the fuller’s art.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very good.~STRANGER: Carding
4926 Text |               of working in wool.~YOUNG SOCRATES: To be sure.~STRANGER: Of
4927 Text |                 two arts at once.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How is that?~STRANGER:
4928 Text |              the art of division.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: To the latter
4929 Text |               just now mentioned.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: Again,
4930 Text |            principle of division.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Let that be done.~STRANGER:
4931 Text |                STRANGER: And once more, Socrates, we must divide the part
4932 Text |         aforesaid art of weaving.~YOUNG SOCRATES: We must.~STRANGER: Yes,
4933 Text |                of combining them.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Do I understand you, in
4934 Text |                 is the woof made?~YOUNG SOCRATES: There is no other way.~
4935 Text |                 be of use to you.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How shall I define them?~
4936 Text |                 to be pulled out.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: And the
4937 Text |                spinning the warp.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: And the
4938 Text |                spinning the woof.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: And,
4939 Text |               the art of weaving.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: But
4940 Text |              and useless circuit?~YOUNG SOCRATES: I thought, Stranger, that
4941 Text |             arguments in general.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Proceed.~STRANGER: Let
4942 Text |         discussions of this kind.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Let us do so.~STRANGER:
4943 Text |               are the following:—~YOUNG SOCRATES: What? STRANGER: Length
4944 Text |        measurement is conversant.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: And the
4945 Text |              our present purpose.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Where would you make the
4946 Text |              would be impossible.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What do you mean?~STRANGER:
4947 Text |                the greater alone?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: Well, but
4948 Text |                 good and bad men?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Plainly.~STRANGER: Then
4949 Text |              hear the reason why?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: If
4950 Text |             either with the mean.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: And would
4951 Text |            observance of measure.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: But
4952 Text |               will be impossible.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: Well,
4953 Text |            master of his science.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes, we must certainly
4954 Text |               then.~STRANGER: But this, Socrates, is a greater work than
4955 Text |           something of this sort—~YOUNG SOCRATES: What?~STRANGER: That we
4956 Text |                 there is neither.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True; and what is the next
4957 Text |                from the extremes.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Here are two vast divisions,
4958 Text |              are many accomplished men, Socrates, who say, believing themselves
4959 Text |             forget what they are.~YOUNG SOCRATES: We will not forget.~STRANGER:
4960 Text |             arguments in general.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What is this new question?~
4961 Text |                  or of all words?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Clearly, in order that
4962 Text |              reasoning generally?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Clearly, as in the former
4963 Text |            matters than on great.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very good.~STRANGER: Let
4964 Text |              bearing of all this.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What is it?~STRANGER: I
4965 Text |     disagreeables for the future.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very good. Will you proceed?~
4966 Text |                 be borne in mind.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: And
4967 Text |               example of weaving.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very good;—let us do as
4968 Text |                 from one another.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very good.~STRANGER: You
4969 Text |            evident as we proceed.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Then we had better do so.~
4970 Text |                parts as possible.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What is to be done in this
4971 Text |               us as co-operative.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: So now,
4972 Text |                of the kingly art.~YOUNG SOCRATES: No, indeed.~STRANGER: The
4973 Text |               have a word to say.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What class do you mean?~
4974 Text |                which is produced.~YOUNG SOCRATES: To what do you refer?~STRANGER:
4975 Text |                 we are in search.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly not.~STRANGER:
4976 Text |               seat for something.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What is it?~STRANGER: A
4977 Text |                  and coppersmith.~YOUNG SOCRATES: I understand.~STRANGER:
4978 Text |                 of the Statesman.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: Shall
4979 Text |      comprehended under one name?~YOUNG SOCRATES: What is it?~STRANGER: Plaything
4980 Text |            Plaything is the name.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: That
4981 Text |                is their sole aim.~YOUNG SOCRATES: That again I understand.~
4982 Text |                 I not rank sixth?~YOUNG SOCRATES: What do you mean?~STRANGER:
4983 Text |                no concern at all.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: The provision
4984 Text |              the Statesman’s art.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly not.~STRANGER:
4985 Text |           animals, except slaves.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: The
4986 Text |                political science.~YOUNG SOCRATES: I agree.~STRANGER: Let
4987 Text |             this remaining class.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Let us do so.~STRANGER:
4988 Text |              what we anticipated.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Who are they?~STRANGER:
4989 Text |              claim royal science.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly not.~STRANGER:
4990 Text |           statecraft or politics?~YOUNG SOCRATES: No; unless, indeed, to
4991 Text |                 in royal science?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly not.~STRANGER:
4992 Text |            serviceable officials?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Who are they, and what
4993 Text |               shall we call them?~YOUNG SOCRATES: They are the officials,
4994 Text |               this neighbourhood.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: Well,
4995 Text |               of the gods to men.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: There is
4996 Text |               or ministerial art.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes, clearly.~STRANGER:
4997 Text |               be the King Archon.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Precisely.~STRANGER: But
4998 Text |                the scene changes?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Whom can you mean?~STRANGER:
4999 Text |               are a strange crew.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Why strange?~STRANGER:
5000 Text |             forms and natures; and now, Socrates, I begin to see who they