(...) The Statesman
     Part
5001 Text |                 see who they are.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Who are they? You seem
5002 Text |         politician and his troop.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Who is he?~STRANGER: The
5003 Text |              the present enquiry.~YOUNG SOCRATES: That is a hope not lightly
5004 Text |               ask you a question.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What?~STRANGER: Is not
5005 Text |               form of government?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: And, after
5006 Text |            government of the few?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Of course.~STRANGER: Is
5007 Text |                name of democracy?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: And
5008 Text |       themselves two other names?~YOUNG SOCRATES: What are they?~YOUNG SOCRATES:
5009 Text |          SOCRATES: What are they?~YOUNG SOCRATES: What are they?~STRANGER:
5010 Text |              royalty and tyranny.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: And
5011 Text |        aristocracy and oligarchy.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: Democracy
5012 Text |                has the same name.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: But do
5013 Text |               can be a right one?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Why not?~STRANGER: Reflect;
5014 Text |           Reflect; and follow me.~YOUNG SOCRATES: In what direction?~STRANGER:
5015 Text |                retract our words?~YOUNG SOCRATES: To what do you refer?~STRANGER:
5016 Text |              power was a science?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: And a science
5017 Text |                and authoritative?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: And there
5018 Text |               particular science?~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: Hence we
5019 Text |                what has preceded.~YOUNG SOCRATES: And we must be consistent.~
5020 Text |               from the wise king.~YOUNG SOCRATES: That, as the argument has
5021 Text |                political science?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Impossible.~STRANGER: But,
5022 Text |                 fifty, who could?~YOUNG SOCRATES: In that case political
5023 Text |               any rate, of a few.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: And
5024 Text |             other art of command.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Quite true.~STRANGER: Then
5025 Text |              notion of the ruler.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: And whether
5026 Text |       imitations like the others.~YOUNG SOCRATES: I agree, Stranger, in the
5027 Text |             have been too quick for me, Socrates; I was just going to ask
5028 Text |          government without laws.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: There
5029 Text |              you see why this is?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Why?~STRANGER: Because
5030 Text |                last for all time.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Of course not.~STRANGER:
5031 Text |           commanded for some one.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly; the law treats
5032 Text |                reverse of simple.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: Then if
5033 Text |               to be investigated.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: Let
5034 Text |          wrestling, and the like?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes; they are very common
5035 Text |                 Can you remember?~YOUNG SOCRATES: To what do you refer?~STRANGER:
5036 Text |             benefit the majority.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: And
5037 Text |           bodily exercise may be.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: And now
5038 Text |             each particular case.~YOUNG SOCRATES: He cannot be expected to
5039 Text |           customs of the country.~YOUNG SOCRATES: He will be right.~STRANGER:
5040 Text |           particulars of his duty? Who, Socrates, would be equal to such
5041 Text |                 of a written law.~YOUNG SOCRATES: So I should infer from
5042 Text |                 going to be said.~YOUNG SOCRATES: And what is that?~STRANGER:
5043 Text |               pupils or patients.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: But what
5044 Text |               utterly ridiculous?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Utterly.~STRANGER: And
5045 Text |          ridiculous as the other?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: Do
5046 Text |                which is in point?~YOUNG SOCRATES: I do not recall what you
5047 Text |                but not otherwise.~YOUNG SOCRATES: And are they not right?~
5048 Text |               previous instances.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What do you mean?~STRANGER:
5049 Text |          aggravating his disease.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Most true.~STRANGER: In
5050 Text |           disgrace, or injustice.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Quite true.~STRANGER: And
5051 Text |                who compelled him.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: And
5052 Text |                 from being worse.~YOUNG SOCRATES: No one can deny what has
5053 Text |              the other statement.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What was it?~STRANGER:
5054 Text |               some for the worse.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What do you mean? I cannot
5055 Text |          prevails in this matter.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What do you mean?~STRANGER:
5056 Text |               thing in the world.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What is this?~STRANGER:
5057 Text |             call the second best?~YOUNG SOCRATES: By all means.~STRANGER:
5058 Text |                 kings and rulers.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What images?~STRANGER:
5059 Text |                image of the king.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What sort of an image?~
5060 Text |               after this fashion.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What a strange notion!~
5061 Text |                the written rules.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Worse and worse.~STRANGER:
5062 Text |                 to suffer or pay.~YOUNG SOCRATES: He who is willing to take
5063 Text |             were the mode of procedure, Socrates, about these sciences and
5064 Text |              would be the result?~YOUNG SOCRATES: All the arts would utterly
5065 Text |             evil than the former?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: To
5066 Text |         adherence to written law?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: Therefore,
5067 Text |                 respect whatever.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: The laws
5068 Text |               who have knowledge?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly they would.~STRANGER:
5069 Text |          absence would be better.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes, we said so.~STRANGER:
5070 Text |               the true Statesman?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: If
5071 Text |              imitation no longer.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Quite true.~STRANGER: And
5072 Text |           already admitted by us.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes, it has.~STRANGER:
5073 Text |                 by the other mob.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Impossible.~STRANGER: Then
5074 Text |                 national customs.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very good.~STRANGER: When
5075 Text |              the laws, oligarchy.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: Or again,
5076 Text |                or with knowledge.~YOUNG SOCRATES: To be sure.~STRANGER: And
5077 Text |             reckoned, become one.~YOUNG SOCRATES: That is true.~STRANGER:
5078 Text |               be called a tyrant?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: And
5079 Text |                and perfect State.~YOUNG SOCRATES: To be sure.~STRANGER: But
5080 Text |               form of government.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: And when
5081 Text |             from action, can we wonder, Socrates, at the miseries which there
5082 Text |                perfect knowledge.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: Then
5083 Text |               we must examine it.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes, we must.~STRANGER:
5084 Text |          hardest and the easiest.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What do you mean?~STRANGER:
5085 Text |                 rule of the many.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: If we divide
5086 Text |       distinguished as a seventh.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How would you make the
5087 Text |              must now be divided.~YOUNG SOCRATES: On what principle of division?~
5088 Text |              well as to the rest.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: The division
5089 Text |             will bisect them all.~YOUNG SOCRATES: That would seem to follow,
5090 Text |        oppressive to the subject.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: The government
5091 Text |                 God is among men.~YOUNG SOCRATES: You are quite right, and
5092 Text |             greatest of Sophists.~YOUNG SOCRATES: The name of Sophist after
5093 Text |                political science.~YOUNG SOCRATES: So I perceive.~STRANGER:
5094 Text |                 of refining gold.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What is your meaning?~STRANGER:
5095 Text |               is left quite pure.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes, that is the way in
5096 Text |              alone and unalloyed?~YOUNG SOCRATES: That is obviously what
5097 Text |             answer me a question.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What question?~STRANGER:
5098 Text |       handicraft arts in general?~YOUNG SOCRATES: There is.~STRANGER: And
5099 Text |                  what do you say?~YOUNG SOCRATES: I should answer that there
5100 Text |        different from the others?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: And ought
5101 Text |                of all the others?~YOUNG SOCRATES: The latter.~STRANGER: You
5102 Text |                 or which teaches?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Far superior.~STRANGER:
5103 Text |                 able to persuade?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Of course.~STRANGER: Very
5104 Text |              and not by teaching?~YOUNG SOCRATES: That power, I think, must
5105 Text |               refrain altogether?~YOUNG SOCRATES: To that science which governs
5106 Text |                 will be politics?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very good.~STRANGER: Rhetoric
5107 Text |                ministering to it.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: But what
5108 Text |                 power or science?~YOUNG SOCRATES: What science?~STRANGER:
5109 Text |                 a science or not?~YOUNG SOCRATES: How can generalship and
5110 Text |                this or different?~YOUNG SOCRATES: If we are to be consistent,
5111 Text |                our former notion?~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: And, considering
5112 Text |              but the truly royal?~YOUNG SOCRATES: No other.~STRANGER: The
5113 Text |          therefore not political?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Exactly.~STRANGER: Once
5114 Text |              the righteous judge.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very good.~STRANGER: Does
5115 Text |                of the legislator?~YOUNG SOCRATES: No; his office is such
5116 Text |               to the royal power?~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: The review
5117 Text |               execute his orders.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: And, therefore,
5118 Text |            their several actions.~YOUNG SOCRATES: I agree.~STRANGER: And
5119 Text |                may call politics.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Exactly so.~STRANGER: Then,
5120 Text |                 weaving supplied?~YOUNG SOCRATES: I greatly wish that you
5121 Text |             woven into one piece.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Clearly.~STRANGER: A task
5122 Text |          appears to be necessary.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly the attempt must
5123 Text |               to popular opinion.~YOUNG SOCRATES: I do not understand.~STRANGER:
5124 Text |                 a part of virtue?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly I should.~STRANGER:
5125 Text |                 a part of virtue?~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: I shall
5126 Text |                theory about them.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What is it?~STRANGER: That
5127 Text |             great part of nature.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How singular!~STRANGER:
5128 Text |          friendly to one another.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes.~STRANGER: Then let
5129 Text |          kindred in some respect.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Tell me how we shall consider
5130 Text |                 opposite classes.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Explain; what are they?~
5131 Text |              others praised them.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: And
5132 Text |                 they are praised?~YOUNG SOCRATES: I do not.~STRANGER: I wonder
5133 Text |               passing in my mind.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Why not?~STRANGER: You
5134 Text |             manliness or courage.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How?~STRANGER: We speak
5135 Text |            certainly praise them.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: And do
5136 Text |            strain of action also?~YOUNG SOCRATES: To be sure.~STRANGER: And
5137 Text |                said of the other?~YOUNG SOCRATES: How do you mean?~STRANGER:
5138 Text |              indicative of order.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: But
5139 Text |                 terms of censure.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How so?~STRANGER: Too great
5140 Text |                 from one another.~YOUNG SOCRATES: In what respect?~STRANGER:
5141 Text |                 arise among them.~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: The difference
5142 Text |                 the most hateful.~YOUNG SOCRATES: To what do you refer?~STRANGER:
5143 Text |              into that of slaves.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What a cruel fate!~STRANGER:
5144 Text |           subject it to its foes?~YOUNG SOCRATES: That, again, is true.~STRANGER:
5145 Text |              towards one another?~YOUNG SOCRATES: We cannot deny it.~STRANGER:
5146 Text |                endowed with them?~YOUNG SOCRATES: True.~STRANGER: Let us
5147 Text |         consider a further point.~YOUNG SOCRATES: What is it?~STRANGER: I
5148 Text |              some nature or idea?~YOUNG SOCRATES: To, be sure.~STRANGER:
5149 Text |               for making the web.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Quite true.~STRANGER: In
5150 Text |            greatest of disgraces.~YOUNG SOCRATES: That is commonly said.~
5151 Text |              the yoke of slavery.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Quite right.~STRANGER:
5152 Text |                 following manner:~YOUNG SOCRATES: In what manner?~STRANGER:
5153 Text |                 with human cords.~YOUNG SOCRATES: I do not understand what
5154 Text |                of heavenly birth.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Yes; what else should it
5155 Text |              just now describing.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Likely enough.~STRANGER:
5156 Text |              the present enquiry.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very right.~STRANGER: The
5157 Text |                 Is not that true?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly.~STRANGER: And
5158 Text |                name of silliness.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Quite true.~STRANGER: Can
5159 Text |              join such materials?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Impossible.~STRANGER: But
5160 Text |             saying, the divinest?~YOUNG SOCRATES: Very true.~STRANGER: Where
5161 Text |             which are human only.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How is that, and what bonds
5162 Text |          procreation of children.~YOUNG SOCRATES: In what way?~STRANGER:
5163 Text |                a serious censure.~YOUNG SOCRATES: There is no need to consider
5164 Text |             indicate their error.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Quite true.~STRANGER: They
5165 Text |              feelings of dislike.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How so?~STRANGER: The quiet
5166 Text |           precisely the opposite.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How and why is that?~STRANGER:
5167 Text |                downright madness.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Like enough.~STRANGER:
5168 Text |            paralyzed and useless.~YOUNG SOCRATES: That, again, is quite likely.~
5169 Text |                 offices of State.~YOUNG SOCRATES: How do you mean?~STRANGER:
5170 Text |              thoroughness and go.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly, that is very
5171 Text |           public or private life.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Certainly they cannot.~
5172 Text |           secure their happiness.~YOUNG SOCRATES: Your picture, Stranger,


The Symposium
     Part
5173 Intro|                praise of love spoken by Socrates and others at the banquet
5174 Intro|               or rather ‘mad’ friend of Socrates, who is afterwards introduced
5175 Intro|                inseparable attendant of Socrates, had reported them to him (
5176 Intro|           follows:—~Aristodemus meeting Socrates in holiday attire, is invited
5177 Intro|                 finds that he is alone; Socrates has stayed behind in a fit
5178 Intro|          spectators at the theatre, and Socrates, who is disposed to begin
5179 Intro|                 to the god.~The turn of Socrates comes next. He begins by
5180 Intro|             wants and desires the good. Socrates professes to have asked
5181 Intro|             love and then of his works. Socrates, like Agathon, had told
5182 Intro|               the commands of the gods.~Socrates asks: Who are his father
5183 Intro|           company applaud the speech of Socrates, and Aristophanes is about
5184 Intro|                suddenly, on recognizing Socrates, he starts up, and a sort
5185 Intro|            fills again and passes on to Socrates. He is informed of the nature
5186 Intro|          allowed to sing the praises of Socrates:—~He begins by comparing
5187 Intro|                  He begins by comparing Socrates first to the busts of Silenus,
5188 Intro|           Marsyas the flute-player. For Socrates produces the same effect
5189 Intro|                mean and miserable life. Socrates at one time seemed about
5190 Intro|              particulars of the life of Socrates; how they were at Potidaea
5191 Intro|                Potidaea together, where Socrates showed his superior powers
5192 Intro|             between him and Agathon and Socrates. Socrates piques Alcibiades
5193 Intro|               and Agathon and Socrates. Socrates piques Alcibiades by a pretended
5194 Intro|            Aristodemus, the follower of Socrates, sleeps during the whole
5195 Intro|                 nearly all asleep. Only Socrates, Aristophanes, and Agathon
5196 Intro|              which they pass round, and Socrates is explaining to the two
5197 Intro|                day is dawning, Agathon. Socrates, having laid them to rest,
5198 Intro|               them. We may observe that Socrates himself is not represented
5199 Intro|         designed to prepare the way for Socrates, who gathers up the threads
5200 Intro|          speakers, while in Agathon and Socrates poetry and philosophy blend
5201 Intro|               the artistic (!), that of Socrates as the philosophical. But
5202 Intro|     understanding him.~When the turn of Socrates comes round he cannot be
5203 Intro|                 study of the actions of Socrates—to whom the world is summed
5204 Intro|               up in the words ‘Great is Socrates’—he has heard them from
5205 Intro|                 who was the ‘shadow’ of Socrates in days of old, like him
5206 Intro|              represented as admitted by Socrates, whose silence when he is
5207 Intro|              indication to Agathon that Socrates has been left behind; also, (
5208 Intro|            anticipates the excuse which Socrates was to have made on Aristodemus’
5209 Intro|                 of the fit or trance of Socrates is confirmed by the mention
5210 Intro|                  the drinking powers of Socrates and his love of the fair,
5211 Intro|               who is not forgotten when Socrates takes his departure. (5)
5212 Intro|              notice the manner in which Socrates himself regards the first
5213 Intro|                7) the ruling passion of Socrates for dialectics, who will
5214 Intro|                the sort of praise which Socrates is unable to give. Lastly, (
5215 Intro|                opens his mouth, just as Socrates, true to his character,
5216 Intro|              half-ironical, approval of Socrates. It is the speech of the
5217 Intro|            compared with that speech of Socrates in the Phaedrus in which
5218 Intro|               at once a preparation for Socrates and a foil to him. The rhetoric
5219 Intro|              and necessary eloquence of Socrates. Agathon contributes the
5220 Intro|                 always of beauty, which Socrates afterwards raises into a
5221 Intro|               the material out of which Socrates proceeds to form his discourse,
5222 Intro|                 be out of character for Socrates to make a lengthened harangue,
5223 Intro|              form of a dialogue between Socrates and a mysterious woman of
5224 Intro|           deserved and true or not. But Socrates has no talent for speaking
5225 Intro|              who has already urged upon Socrates the argument which he urges
5226 Intro|                acknowledged to be so by Socrates himself. For he who has
5227 Intro|        proprieties of women, has taught Socrates far more than this about
5228 Intro|             beauty which resides within Socrates has been revealed; the Silenus,
5229 Intro|           exhibited. The description of Socrates follows immediately after
5230 Intro|         immediately after the speech of Socrates; one is the complement of
5231 Intro|               of his affections towards Socrates, unintelligible to us and
5232 Intro|               been equally in love with Socrates, and like himself have been
5233 Intro|       well-regulated mind. The Platonic Socrates (for of the real Socrates
5234 Intro|               Socrates (for of the real Socrates this may be doubted: compare
5235 Intro|                 remarkable than that of Socrates, and agrees with the picture
5236 Intro|                 strangely fascinated by Socrates, and possessed of a genius
5237 Intro|               of enthusiasm or madness; Socrates is himself ‘a prophet new
5238 Intro|         Symposium of Xenophon, in which Socrates describes himself as a pander,
5239 Intro|                memorials of the life of Socrates.~
5240 Text |                  Aristophanes, Agathon, Socrates, Alcibiades, A Troop of
5241 Text |                 which were delivered by Socrates, Alcibiades, and others,
5242 Text |                I became acquainted with Socrates, and have made it my daily
5243 Text |              said; and who told you—did Socrates?~No indeed, I replied, but
5244 Text |                 more devoted admirer of Socrates. Moreover, I have asked
5245 Text |                  Moreover, I have asked Socrates about the truth of some
5246 Text |          mankind, with the exception of Socrates, yourself first of all,
5247 Text |              yourself and everybody but Socrates.~APOLLODORUS: Yes, friend,
5248 Text |        Aristodemus:~He said that he met Socrates fresh from the bath and
5249 Text |              the better.~I rather fear, Socrates, said Aristodemus, lest
5250 Text |        conversation as they went along. Socrates dropped behind in a fit
5251 Text |                 what have you done with Socrates?~I turned round, but Socrates
5252 Text |           Socrates?~I turned round, but Socrates was nowhere to be seen;
5253 Text |                reported that our friend Socrates had retired into the portico
5254 Text |                was served, but still no Socrates; and during the meal Agathon
5255 Text |               was not of long duration —Socrates entered. Agathon, who was
5256 Text |               sought.’~How I wish, said Socrates, taking his place as he
5257 Text |              Hellenes.~You are mocking, Socrates, said Agathon, and ere long
5258 Text |            better occupied with supper.~Socrates took his place on the couch,
5259 Text |                 mood. (I do not include Socrates, who is able either to drink
5260 Text |          against you, Eryximachus, said Socrates. How can I oppose your motion,
5261 Text |                and desired him to do as Socrates bade him.~Aristodemus did
5262 Text |                 either, for Agathon and Socrates are the only ones left.~
5263 Text |               not know that Agathon and Socrates are masters in the art of
5264 Text |                 I am not without hopes.~Socrates said: You played your part
5265 Text |                to cast a spell over me, Socrates, said Agathon, in the hope
5266 Text |              forgetful, Agathon replied Socrates, of the courage and magnanimity
5267 Text |               of friends.~Do you think, Socrates, said Agathon, that my head
5268 Text |                many fools?~Nay, replied Socrates, I should be very wrong
5269 Text |        opportunities of conversing with Socrates. Let me say first how I
5270 Text |            himself, and of the god. And Socrates, looking at Eryximachus,
5271 Text |               Why, my dear friend, said Socrates, must not I or any one be
5272 Text |           Phaedrus: put your questions. Socrates then proceeded as follows:—~
5273 Text |                  he said.~And now, said Socrates, I will ask about Love:—
5274 Text |                should say.~Nay, replied Socrates, I would have you consider
5275 Text |               Very true.~And yet, added Socrates, if a man being strong desired
5276 Text |             replied Agathon.~Then, said Socrates, he desires that what he
5277 Text |                 he said.~Then now, said Socrates, let us recapitulate the
5278 Text |                speech, Agathon, replied Socrates; but there is yet one small
5279 Text |              good?~I cannot refute you, Socrates, said Agathon:—Let us assume
5280 Text |            cannot refute the truth; for Socrates is easily refuted.~And now,
5281 Text |              know?’ ‘By all.’ ‘And how, Socrates,’ she said with a smile, ‘
5282 Text |              and foolish. Such, my dear Socrates, is the nature of the spirit
5283 Text |              use of him to men?’ ‘That, Socrates,’ she replied, ‘I will attempt
5284 Text |               Of the beautiful in what, Socrates and Diotima?—or rather let
5285 Text |             rejoined, ‘are not all men, Socrates, said to love, but only
5286 Text |              pain of travail. For love, Socrates, is not, as you imagine,
5287 Text |                 me, ‘What is the cause, Socrates, of love, and the attendant
5288 Text |               another? And in this way, Socrates, the mortal body, or mortal
5289 Text |         accomplished sophist: ‘Of that, Socrates, you may be assured;—think
5290 Text |              love, into which even you, Socrates, may enter; to the greater
5291 Text |              wondrous beauty (and this, Socrates, is the final cause of all
5292 Text |                beauty is. This, my dear Socrates,’ said the stranger of Mantineia, ‘
5293 Text |             else which you please.~When Socrates had done speaking, the company
5294 Text |            answer to the allusion which Socrates had made to his own speech,
5295 Text |              thus prevented from seeing Socrates, who made way for him, and
5296 Text |               place between Agathon and Socrates, and in taking the place
5297 Text |                up as he caught sight of Socrates. By Heracles, he said, what
5298 Text |             said, what is this? here is Socrates always lying in wait for
5299 Text |                 fairest of the company?~Socrates turned to Agathon and said:
5300 Text |                 the ribands, he crowned Socrates, and again reclined.~Then
5301 Text |             attendant fill it again for Socrates. Observe, my friends, said
5302 Text |             mine will have no effect on Socrates, for he can drink any quantity
5303 Text |                 all nearer being drunk. Socrates drank the cup which the
5304 Text |             speak, and then impose upon Socrates any task which you please,
5305 Text |                 you really believe what Socrates was just now saying; for
5306 Text |                 off me.~For shame, said Socrates.~Hold your tongue, said
5307 Text |         Eryximachus, if you like praise Socrates.~What do you think, Eryximachus?
5308 Text |                What are you about? said Socrates; are you going to raise
5309 Text |                 my boys, I shall praise Socrates in a figure which will appear
5310 Text |                 yourself will not deny, Socrates, that your face is like
5311 Text |               which I am leading (this, Socrates, you will admit); and I
5312 Text |                 do in a moment whatever Socrates commanded: they may have
5313 Text |                I speak falsely, do you, Socrates, expose the falsehood).
5314 Text |         concealing the lofty actions of Socrates when I come to praise him.
5315 Text |                 you, and I need not say Socrates himself, have had experience
5316 Text |               him a shake, and I said: ‘Socrates, are you asleep?’ ‘No,’
5317 Text |                 in my arms. This again, Socrates, will not be denied by you.
5318 Text |                of the haughty virtue of Socrates—nothing more happened, but
5319 Text |               human being had ever seen Socrates drunk; and his powers, if
5320 Text |          fleeces: in the midst of this, Socrates with his bare feet on the
5321 Text |                the wondering crowd that Socrates had been standing and thinking
5322 Text |             told them so, (this, again, Socrates will not impeach or deny),
5323 Text |              might narrate in praise of Socrates; most of his ways might
5324 Text |                friends, is my praise of Socrates. I have added my blame of
5325 Text |                to be still in love with Socrates. You are sober, Alcibiades,
5326 Text |                 sober, Alcibiades, said Socrates, or you would never have
5327 Text |               to you.~Yes, yes, replied Socrates, by all means come here
5328 Text |                 us.~Certainly not, said Socrates, as you praised me, and
5329 Text |                that I may be praised by Socrates.~The usual way, said Alcibiades;
5330 Text |                  said Alcibiades; where Socrates is, no one else has any
5331 Text |               his place on the couch by Socrates, when suddenly a band of
5332 Text |               away; there remained only Socrates, Aristophanes, and Agathon,
5333 Text |            which they passed round, and Socrates was discoursing to them.
5334 Text |                 which he remembered was Socrates compelling the other two
5335 Text |               already dawning, Agathon. Socrates, having laid them to sleep,


Theaetetus
     Part
5336 Intro|                ignorance on the part of Socrates, also bear the stamp of
5337 Intro|        dialogues, in which the original Socrates is not yet Platonized. Had
5338 Intro|         reappear, including the younger Socrates, whose name is just mentioned
5339 Intro|               the theory of rest, which Socrates has declined to consider,
5340 Intro|               meeting of Parmenides and Socrates (Theaet., Soph.); and (4)
5341 Intro|           residence of Plato at Megara. Socrates disclaims the character
5342 Intro|             shortly before the death of Socrates. At the time of his own
5343 Intro|            little impairs the beauty of Socrates’ remark, that ‘he would
5344 Intro|       illustrating the personal life of Socrates. The Philebus, too, may
5345 Intro|               famous conversation which Socrates had with him when he was
5346 Intro|                correcting the copy from Socrates’ own mouth. The narrative,
5347 Intro|             Theodorus. He is a youthful Socrates, and exhibits the same contrast
5348 Intro|               as the argument proceeds. Socrates takes an evident delight
5349 Intro|               speak, but, encouraged by Socrates, he rises to the occasion,
5350 Intro|             ready to follow the lead of Socrates, and to enter into each
5351 Intro|           herself, and with the help of Socrates is conducted from a theory
5352 Intro|              over, first, as a pupil of Socrates, and then of Plato, he is
5353 Intro|                  He is too old to learn Socrates’ game of question and answer,
5354 Intro|           follow. The mathematician, as Socrates says in the Republic, is
5355 Intro|        acceptance of the noble words of Socrates, are noticeable traits of
5356 Intro|                traits of character.~The Socrates of the Theaetetus is the
5357 Intro|           Theaetetus is the same as the Socrates of the earlier dialogues.
5358 Intro|        accordance with the character of Socrates as he is described in the
5359 Intro|     characteristic which he shares with Socrates, and the man-midwifery of
5360 Intro|                and the man-midwifery of Socrates, are not forgotten in the
5361 Intro|            argument is assigned, not to Socrates, but to an Eleatic stranger;
5362 Intro|                turn truly declares that Socrates has got a great deal more
5363 Intro|               him than ever was in him. Socrates is never weary of working
5364 Intro|                  That which is given by Socrates is quite sufficient, viz.
5365 Intro|               making his meaning plain, Socrates proceeds to analyze (1)
5366 Intro|                 Plato, as they have the Socrates of Plato, with the real
5367 Intro|                 expressly identified by Socrates with the other statement,
5368 Intro|                 ad absurdum’ devised by Socrates for his ‘homo mensura,’
5369 Intro|                 truth is only spoken by Socrates, who is never guilty of
5370 Intro|              sometimes in the right and Socrates in the wrong. Like the hero
5371 Intro|            Protagoras, rather than with Socrates, in the dialogue which is
5372 Intro|                  we cannot tell how far Socrates is serious; for the Socratic
5373 Intro|              superior of the invincible Socrates in argument (except in the
5374 Intro|        confusion caused by the irony of Socrates, who, if he is true to his
5375 Intro|             contemporaries of Plato and Socrates were vainly trying to find
5376 Intro|                desirable in the eyes of Socrates and Plato. And besides these,
5377 Intro|             from him, I remembered that Socrates had seen him when he was
5378 Intro|                 been; how like all that Socrates said! And could you repeat
5379 Intro|           filled up at leisure, and got Socrates to correct them from time
5380 Intro|               are the persons with whom Socrates is conversing.’~Socrates
5381 Intro|                Socrates is conversing.’~Socrates begins by asking Theodorus
5382 Intro|           distinction in science. ‘Yes, Socrates, there is one very remarkable
5383 Intro|                entering the palaestra.’~Socrates, who does not know his name,
5384 Intro|               virtues. At the desire of Socrates he invites Theaetetus to
5385 Intro|                sit by them.~‘Yes,’ says Socrates, ‘that I may see in you,
5386 Intro|             willing to be examined, and Socrates begins by asking him what
5387 Intro|         carpentering, and the like. But Socrates rejoins, that this answer
5388 Intro|         Theaetetus at once divines that Socrates means him to extend to all
5389 Intro|                were brought to him from Socrates, has been sorely distressed
5390 Intro|              sorely distressed by them. Socrates explains to him that he
5391 Intro|         assistance of midwives. And he, Socrates, is a midwife, although
5392 Intro|             from them. ‘At first,’ says Socrates in his character of the
5393 Intro|             often perplexed and amazed, Socrates, by these difficulties.’ ‘
5394 Intro|             Take myself as an instance:—Socrates may be ill or he may be
5395 Intro|                 well,—and remember that Socrates, with all his accidents,
5396 Intro|              But I should like to know, Socrates, whether you mean to say
5397 Intro|                   Theodorus thinks that Socrates is unjust to his master,
5398 Intro|             opinion by the arguments of Socrates.~Socrates then takes up
5399 Intro|              the arguments of Socrates.~Socrates then takes up the defence
5400 Intro|                 appeal to geometry, and Socrates is induced by him to put
5401 Intro|             guardian, but he hopes that Socrates will come to the rescue.
5402 Intro|                will come to the rescue. Socrates prefaces his defence by
5403 Intro|               in a manner which enabled Socrates to raise a laugh against
5404 Intro|               to be well paid. And you, Socrates, whether you please or not,
5405 Intro|                  I would recommend you, Socrates, to adopt this humaner method,
5406 Intro|                single fall, I consent.’~Socrates now resumes the argument.
5407 Intro|               is to him.’ And how, asks Socrates, are these words reconcileable
5408 Intro|             that this is going too far. Socrates ironically replies, that
5409 Intro|           begins a new question. ‘Well, Socrates, we have plenty of leisure.
5410 Intro|             much of a digression?~‘Nay, Socrates, the argument is our servant,
5411 Intro|                them.~‘What do you mean, Socrates?’~I will illustrate my meaning
5412 Intro|               feet. ‘That is very true, Socrates.’ But when he tries to draw
5413 Intro|                 praises.~‘If the world, Socrates, were as ready to receive
5414 Intro|         digressed enough.~‘For my part, Socrates, I like the digressions
5415 Intro|               rest. This is declined by Socrates, who has too much reverence
5416 Intro|                with the ear. This leads Socrates to make the reflection that
5417 Intro|              for evil or evil for good. Socrates will not discourage him
5418 Intro|                e.g. Theaetetus may know Socrates, but at a distance he may
5419 Intro|               these distinctions; which Socrates proceeds to illustrate by
5420 Intro|              with this explanation. But Socrates has no sooner found the
5421 Intro|                what knowledge is. ‘Why, Socrates, how can you argue at all
5422 Intro|              definition or explanation. Socrates has had a similar dream,
5423 Intro|             down. The first syllable of Socrates’ name is SO. But what is
5424 Intro|                but when interrogated by Socrates he is unable to draw any
5425 Intro|         speculations.~(a) In the age of Socrates the mind was passing from
5426 Intro|        absoluteness of perception. Like Socrates, he seemed to see that philosophy
5427 Intro|                 thought; the age before Socrates had not arrived at these
5428 Intro|                 it, while agreeing with Socrates and the Cynics in the importance
5429 Intro|                Theodorus justly charges Socrates with going beyond the truth;
5430 Intro|                when he protests against Socrates arguing from the common
5431 Intro|               have said, ‘The excellent Socrates has first confused me with
5432 Intro|          distinction of words which, as Socrates observes, is by no means
5433 Intro|                Theaetetus, in answer to Socrates, proceeds to define knowledge
5434 Intro|              rational explanation. This Socrates identifies with another
5435 Intro|              may be cited the remark of Socrates, that ‘distinctions of words,
5436 Intro|        distinction of Theaetetus (which Socrates, speaking with emphasis, ‘
5437 Intro|               and d. the distinction of Socrates himself between ‘having’
5438 Text |                PERSONS OF THE DIALOGUE: Socrates, Theodorus, Theaetetus.~
5439 Text |              and then I remembered what Socrates had said of him, and thought
5440 Text |                 went to Athens, I asked Socrates about any point which I
5441 Text |          observe that I have introduced Socrates, not as narrating to me,
5442 Text |                 EUCLID’S SERVANT READS.~SOCRATES: If I cared enough about
5443 Text |               anything.~THEODORUS: Yes, Socrates, I have become acquainted
5444 Text |               his age, it is wonderful.~SOCRATES: That is good news; whose
5445 Text |               see whether you know him.~SOCRATES: I know the youth, but I
5446 Text |                  THEODORUS: Theaetetus, Socrates, is his name; but I rather
5447 Text |                 is wonderfully liberal.~SOCRATES: He must be a fine fellow;
5448 Text |                  Theaetetus, and sit by Socrates.~SOCRATES: By all means,
5449 Text |        Theaetetus, and sit by Socrates.~SOCRATES: By all means, Theaetetus,
5450 Text |              THEAETETUS: We should ask.~SOCRATES: And if we found that he
5451 Text |                  not?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: And if this supposed likeness
5452 Text |        THEAETETUS: Certainly we should.~SOCRATES: And is Theodorus a painter?~
5453 Text |                never heard that he was.~SOCRATES: Is he a geometrician?~THEAETETUS:
5454 Text |            THEAETETUS: Of course he is, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And is he an
5455 Text |                 course he is, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And is he an astronomer
5456 Text |                 THEAETETUS: I think so.~SOCRATES: If, then, he remarks on
5457 Text |           THEAETETUS: I should say not.~SOCRATES: But if he praises the virtue
5458 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Very true, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Then now is the
5459 Text |        THEAETETUS: Very true, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Then now is the time, my
5460 Text |       THEAETETUS: I am glad to hear it, Socrates; but what if he was only
5461 Text |                 if he was only in jest?~SOCRATES: Nay, Theodorus is not given
5462 Text |                 I must, if you wish it.~SOCRATES: In the first place, I should
5463 Text |               perhaps?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And astronomy and harmony
5464 Text |               THEAETETUS: I do my best.~SOCRATES: Yes, my boy, and so do
5465 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Of course.~SOCRATES: And by wisdom the wise
5466 Text |              are wise?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And is that different in
5467 Text |            knowledge?~THEAETETUS: What?~SOCRATES: Wisdom; are not men wise
5468 Text |         THEAETETUS: Certainly they are.~SOCRATES: Then wisdom and knowledge
5469 Text |              the same?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: Herein lies the difficulty
5470 Text |                The reverse of rudeness, Socrates: but I would rather that
5471 Text |                him and not let him off.~SOCRATES: Do you hear, Theaetetus,
5472 Text |         knowledge is.~THEAETETUS: Well, Socrates, I will answer as you and
5473 Text |              will doubtless correct me.~SOCRATES: We will, if we can.~THEAETETUS:
5474 Text |                of, them, are knowledge.~SOCRATES: Too much, Theaetetus, too
5475 Text |           THEAETETUS: What do you mean, Socrates?~SOCRATES: Perhaps nothing.
5476 Text |             What do you mean, Socrates?~SOCRATES: Perhaps nothing. I will
5477 Text |             shoes?~THEAETETUS: Just so.~SOCRATES: And when you speak of carpentering,
5478 Text |           implements?~THEAETETUS: I do.~SOCRATES: In both cases you define
5479 Text |                 arts?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: But that, Theaetetus, was
5480 Text |            THEAETETUS: Perfectly right.~SOCRATES: Let me offer an illustration:
5481 Text |          ridiculous?~THEAETETUS: Truly.~SOCRATES: In the first place, there
5482 Text |                  THEAETETUS: He cannot.~SOCRATES: Then he who does not know
5483 Text |                shoes?~THEAETETUS: None.~SOCRATES: Nor of any other science?~
5484 Text |                science?~THEAETETUS: No.~SOCRATES: And when a man is asked
5485 Text |                that.’~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: Moreover, he might answer
5486 Text |                 point.~THEAETETUS: Yes, Socrates, there is no difficulty
5487 Text |              friend here, your namesake Socrates, in a recent discussion.~
5488 Text |                 in a recent discussion.~SOCRATES: What was that, Theaetetus?~
5489 Text |                under one name or class.~SOCRATES: And did you find such a
5490 Text |              like to have your opinion.~SOCRATES: Let me hear.~THEAETETUS:
5491 Text |            numbers;—that was one class.~SOCRATES: Very good.~THEAETETUS:
5492 Text |             called them oblong numbers.~SOCRATES: Capital; and what followed?~
5493 Text |              and the same about solids.~SOCRATES: Excellent, my boys; I think
5494 Text |            THEAETETUS: But I am unable, Socrates, to give you a similar answer
5495 Text |                is a deceiver after all.~SOCRATES: Well, but if some one were
5496 Text |              THEAETETUS: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: And is the discovery of
5497 Text |              the top of all perfection! SOCRATES: Well, then, be of good
5498 Text |          THEAETETUS: I am eager enough, Socrates, if that would bring to
5499 Text |               bring to light the truth.~SOCRATES: Come, you made a good beginning
5500 Text |           THEAETETUS: I can assure you, Socrates, that I have tried very