(...) Theaetetus
     Part
5501 Text |               off a feeling of anxiety.~SOCRATES: These are the pangs of
5502 Text |              THEAETETUS: I do not know, Socrates; I only say what I feel.~
5503 Text |                 I only say what I feel.~SOCRATES: And have you never heard,
5504 Text |                THEAETETUS: Yes, I have.~SOCRATES: And that I myself practise
5505 Text |                  THEAETETUS: No, never.~SOCRATES: Let me tell you that I
5506 Text |              that too?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: Shall I tell you the reason?~
5507 Text |               THEAETETUS: By all means.~SOCRATES: Bear in mind the whole
5508 Text |                THEAETETUS: Yes, I know.~SOCRATES: The reason of this is said
5509 Text |                 THEAETETUS: I dare say.~SOCRATES: And I dare say too, or
5510 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: And by the use of potions
5511 Text |             womb.~THEAETETUS: They can.~SOCRATES: Did you ever remark that
5512 Text |                  THEAETETUS: No, never.~SOCRATES: Then let me tell you that
5513 Text |          THEAETETUS: Yes, the same art.~SOCRATES: And do you suppose that
5514 Text |         THEAETETUS: I should think not.~SOCRATES: Certainly not; but midwives
5515 Text |        matchmaker.~THEAETETUS: Clearly.~SOCRATES: Such are the midwives,
5516 Text |            THEAETETUS: Indeed I should.~SOCRATES: Well, my art of midwifery
5517 Text |                THEAETETUS: At any rate, Socrates, after such an exhortation
5518 Text |                knowledge is perception.~SOCRATES: Bravely said, boy; that
5519 Text |            perception?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: Well, you have delivered
5520 Text |                 O yes, again and again.~SOCRATES: Does he not say that things
5521 Text |            THEAETETUS: Yes, he says so.~SOCRATES: A wise man is not likely
5522 Text |                 THEAETETUS: Quite true.~SOCRATES: Now is the wind, regarded
5523 Text |         THEAETETUS: I suppose the last.~SOCRATES: Then it must appear so
5524 Text |               of them?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And ‘appears to him’ means
5525 Text |           perceives.’~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: Then appearing and perceiving
5526 Text |        perceives them?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then perception is always
5527 Text |          unerring?~THEAETETUS: Clearly.~SOCRATES: In the name of the Graces,
5528 Text |           THEAETETUS: What do you mean, Socrates?~SOCRATES: I am about to
5529 Text |             What do you mean, Socrates?~SOCRATES: I am about to speak of
5530 Text |                 THEAETETUS: I think so.~SOCRATES: And who could take up arms
5531 Text |                 THEAETETUS: Who indeed, Socrates?~SOCRATES: Yes, Theaetetus;
5532 Text |       THEAETETUS: Who indeed, Socrates?~SOCRATES: Yes, Theaetetus; and there
5533 Text |                fire?~THEAETETUS: It is.~SOCRATES: And the race of animals
5534 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And is not the bodily habit
5535 Text |             exercise?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: And what of the mental
5536 Text |              learned?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: Then motion is a good,
5537 Text |              body?~THEAETETUS: Clearly.~SOCRATES: I may add, that breathless
5538 Text |                  THEAETETUS: I believe, Socrates, that you have truly explained
5539 Text |            truly explained his meaning.~SOCRATES: Then now apply his doctrine
5540 Text |        THEAETETUS: Then what is colour?~SOCRATES: Let us carry the principle
5541 Text |                THEAETETUS: Far from it.~SOCRATES: Or that anything appears
5542 Text |                 THEAETETUS: The latter.~SOCRATES: And if that with which
5543 Text |               of what sort do you mean?~SOCRATES: A little instance will
5544 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: Well, then, suppose that
5545 Text |          THEAETETUS: I should say ‘No,’ Socrates, if I were to speak my mind
5546 Text |         contradicting my former answer.~SOCRATES: Capital! excellent! spoken
5547 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: The thoroughbred Sophists,
5548 Text |                that would be my desire.~SOCRATES: And mine too. But since
5549 Text |                 agree?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: Secondly, that without
5550 Text |                 THEAETETUS: Quite true.~SOCRATES: Thirdly, that what was
5551 Text |                 THEAETETUS: Yes, truly.~SOCRATES: These three axioms, if
5552 Text |            before now.~THEAETETUS: Yes, Socrates, and I am amazed when I
5553 Text |              the contemplation of them.~SOCRATES: I see, my dear Theaetetus,
5554 Text |                 THEAETETUS: Not as yet.~SOCRATES: Then you will be obliged
5555 Text |             shall be very much obliged.~SOCRATES: Take a look round, then,
5556 Text |                THEAETETUS: Yes, indeed, Socrates, they are very hard and
5557 Text |               and impenetrable mortals.~SOCRATES: Yes, my boy, outer barbarians.
5558 Text |            THEAETETUS: Indeed I do not.~SOCRATES: Then attend, and I will
5559 Text |                do not know what to say, Socrates; for, indeed, I cannot make
5560 Text |                 wanting to draw me out.~SOCRATES: You forget, my friend,
5561 Text |              think.~THEAETETUS: Ask me.~SOCRATES: Then once more: Is it your
5562 Text |                am very ready to assent.~SOCRATES: Let us not leave the argument
5563 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Very true, Socrates.~SOCRATES: But then, my
5564 Text |        THEAETETUS: Very true, Socrates.~SOCRATES: But then, my boy, how can
5565 Text |         THEAETETUS: I am afraid to say, Socrates, that I have nothing to
5566 Text |              are flying in their sleep.~SOCRATES: Do you see another question
5567 Text |              THEAETETUS: What question?~SOCRATES: A question which I think
5568 Text |              state?~THEAETETUS: Indeed, Socrates, I do not know how to prove
5569 Text |            states is quite astonishing.~SOCRATES: You see, then, that a doubt
5570 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Most true.~SOCRATES: And may not the same be
5571 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And is truth or falsehood
5572 Text |                in many ways ridiculous.~SOCRATES: But can you certainly determine
5573 Text |                do not think that I can.~SOCRATES: Listen, then, to a statement
5574 Text |              any other way be the same.~SOCRATES: And must therefore be admitted
5575 Text |               unlike?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: If, then, anything happens
5576 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Were we not saying that
5577 Text |              infinite?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And also that different
5578 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Let us take you and me,
5579 Text |                 as an example:—There is Socrates in health, and Socrates
5580 Text |                 Socrates in health, and Socrates sick—Are they like or unlike?~
5581 Text |         THEAETETUS: You mean to compare Socrates in health as a whole, and
5582 Text |               in health as a whole, and Socrates in sickness as a whole?~
5583 Text |                 in sickness as a whole?~SOCRATES: Exactly; that is my meaning.~
5584 Text |                answer, they are unlike.~SOCRATES: And if unlike, they are
5585 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And would you not say the
5586 Text |                 you not say the same of Socrates sleeping and waking, or
5587 Text |       mentioning?~THEAETETUS: I should.~SOCRATES: All agents have a different
5588 Text |             have a different patient in Socrates, accordingly as he is well
5589 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Of course.~SOCRATES: And I who am the patient,
5590 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: The wine which I drink
5591 Text |                to me?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: For, as has been already
5592 Text |              been already acknowledged.~SOCRATES: But when I am sick, the
5593 Text |                person?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: The combination of the
5594 Text |                draught of wine, and the Socrates who is sick, produces quite
5595 Text |           percipient?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: There is no other object
5596 Text |            different.~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: Neither can I by myself,
5597 Text |              THEAETETUS: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: When I perceive I must
5598 Text |              THEAETETUS: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: Then the inference is,
5599 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Very true, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Then, if that
5600 Text |        THEAETETUS: Very true, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Then, if that which acts
5601 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Of course.~SOCRATES: Then my perception is true
5602 Text |               THEAETETUS: I suppose so.~SOCRATES: How then, if I never err,
5603 Text |                 THEAETETUS: You cannot.~SOCRATES: Then you were quite right
5604 Text |         THEAETETUS: I cannot but agree, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Then this is
5605 Text |             cannot but agree, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Then this is the child,
5606 Text |              good-natured. But tell me, Socrates, in heaven’s name, is this,
5607 Text |               after all, not the truth?~SOCRATES: You, Theodorus, are a lover
5608 Text |               THEODORUS: Do as you say, Socrates; you are quite right.~SOCRATES:
5609 Text |          Socrates; you are quite right.~SOCRATES: Shall I tell you, Theodorus,
5610 Text |                  THEODORUS: What is it?~SOCRATES: I am charmed with his doctrine,
5611 Text |                He was a friend of mine, Socrates, as you were saying, and
5612 Text |           seemed to answer very nicely.~SOCRATES: If you were to go into
5613 Text |             person?~THEODORUS: Why not, Socrates, if they would allow me,
5614 Text |             drag me into the gymnasium.~SOCRATES: Your will is my will, Theodorus,
5615 Text |             face of things has changed.~SOCRATES: Why, my dear boy, you are
5616 Text |                 But neither you nor we, Socrates, would be satisfied with
5617 Text |          satisfied with such arguments.~SOCRATES: Then you and Theodorus
5618 Text |              Yes, in quite another way.~SOCRATES: And the way will be to
5619 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Shall we say that we know
5620 Text |               THEAETETUS: We shall say, Socrates, that we know what we actually
5621 Text |          interpreters teach about them.~SOCRATES: Capital, Theaetetus; and
5622 Text |                 THEAETETUS: What is it?~SOCRATES: Some one will say, Can
5623 Text |                 THEAETETUS: Impossible, Socrates; the supposition is monstrous.~
5624 Text |               supposition is monstrous.~SOCRATES: Am I talking nonsense,
5625 Text |           perception?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: And if our recent definition
5626 Text |              has seen?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And you would admit that
5627 Text |                memory?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And is memory of something
5628 Text |       THEAETETUS: Of something, surely.~SOCRATES: Of things learned and perceived,
5629 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Often a man remembers that
5630 Text |                 seen?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: And if he closed his eyes,
5631 Text |                forget?~THEAETETUS: Who, Socrates, would dare to say so?~SOCRATES:
5632 Text |         Socrates, would dare to say so?~SOCRATES: But we must say so, if
5633 Text |           suspicion that you are right.~SOCRATES: As thus: he who sees knows,
5634 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: But he who saw, and has
5635 Text |                 sees.~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: And seeing is knowing,
5636 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: Then the inference is,
5637 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Most true.~SOCRATES: Thus, then, the assertion
5638 Text |         impossibility?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then they must be distinguished?~
5639 Text |                 suppose that they must.~SOCRATES: Once more we shall have
5640 Text |                 THEAETETUS: About what?~SOCRATES: Like a good-for-nothing
5641 Text |            THEAETETUS: How do you mean?~SOCRATES: After the manner of disputers (
5642 Text |              not as yet understand you.~SOCRATES: Then I will try to explain
5643 Text |           perception.~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: And yet, my friend, I rather
5644 Text |                 done?~THEODORUS: Not I, Socrates, but rather Callias, the
5645 Text |               to you if you assist him.~SOCRATES: Very good, Theodorus; you
5646 Text |          disgrace if he is discomfited.~SOCRATES: Then now let me ask the
5647 Text |                He cannot, I should say.~SOCRATES: He can, if you maintain
5648 Text |                eye but with the other.’~SOCRATES: Then you see and do not
5649 Text |                Yes, in a certain sense.~SOCRATES: None of that, he will reply;
5650 Text |          contradictory of my assertion.~SOCRATES: Yes, my marvel, and there
5651 Text |               THEAETETUS: By all means.~SOCRATES: He will repeat all those
5652 Text |            disdain, and say:—The worthy Socrates asked a little boy, whether
5653 Text |               what was coming, and then Socrates made fun of poor me. The
5654 Text |              The truth is, O slatternly Socrates, that when you ask questions
5655 Text |             than others. And, O my dear Socrates, I do not call wise men
5656 Text |                 stands firm, which you, Socrates, may, if you please, overthrow
5657 Text |             THEODORUS: You are jesting, Socrates; indeed, your defence of
5658 Text |                 has been most valorous.~SOCRATES: Thank you, friend; and
5659 Text |               fail to observe all that, Socrates?~SOCRATES: Well, and shall
5660 Text |             observe all that, Socrates?~SOCRATES: Well, and shall we do as
5661 Text |                THEODORUS: By all means.~SOCRATES: But if his wishes are to
5662 Text |               men who have long beards?~SOCRATES: Yes, Theodorus, but not
5663 Text |               He who is sitting by you, Socrates, will not easily avoid being
5664 Text |              fall with you in argument.~SOCRATES: There, Theodorus, you have
5665 Text |               further than you suggest.~SOCRATES: Once will be enough; and
5666 Text |               best to avoid that error.~SOCRATES: In the first place, let
5667 Text |           others.~THEODORUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: Had Protagoras been living
5668 Text |                 stake?~THEODORUS: True.~SOCRATES: Then let us obtain, not
5669 Text |                 THEODORUS: In what way?~SOCRATES: In this way:—His words
5670 Text |             THEODORUS: Yes, so he says.~SOCRATES: And are not we, Protagoras,
5671 Text |          opinion.~THEODORUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And wisdom is assumed by
5672 Text |            opinion.~THEODORUS: Exactly.~SOCRATES: How then, Protagoras, would
5673 Text |                The thing is incredible, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And yet that
5674 Text |                is incredible, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And yet that absurdity
5675 Text |              things.~THEODORUS: How so?~SOCRATES: Why, suppose that you determine
5676 Text |                 THEODORUS: Yes, indeed, Socrates, thousands and tens of thousands,
5677 Text |             give me a world of trouble.~SOCRATES: Well, but are we to assert
5678 Text |         inference seems to be possible.~SOCRATES: And how about Protagoras
5679 Text |                with individual opinion.~SOCRATES: And the best of the joke
5680 Text |             true.~THEODORUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And does he not allow that
5681 Text |             true?~THEODORUS: Of course.~SOCRATES: Whereas the other side
5682 Text |                 THEODORUS: They do not.~SOCRATES: And he, as may be inferred
5683 Text |               true.~THEODORUS: Clearly.~SOCRATES: Then all mankind, beginning
5684 Text |              not right?~THEODORUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And the truth of Protagoras
5685 Text |               else?~THEODORUS: I think, Socrates, that we are running my
5686 Text |                 my old friend too hard.~SOCRATES: But I do not know that
5687 Text |             that opinion I quite agree.~SOCRATES: And is there not most likely
5688 Text |               THEODORUS: I quite agree.~SOCRATES: Or again, in politics,
5689 Text |              the last.~THEODORUS: Well, Socrates, we have plenty of leisure.~
5690 Text |                 have plenty of leisure.~SOCRATES: That is true, and your
5691 Text |            THEODORUS: What do you mean?~SOCRATES: I mean to say, that those
5692 Text |                 is the difference seen?~SOCRATES: In the leisure spoken of
5693 Text |               we claim.~THEODORUS: Nay, Socrates, not until we have finished
5694 Text |                  as he might the poets?~SOCRATES: Then, as this is your wish,
5695 Text |            THEODORUS: What do you mean, Socrates?~SOCRATES: I will illustrate
5696 Text |             What do you mean, Socrates?~SOCRATES: I will illustrate my meaning,
5697 Text |               and what you say is true.~SOCRATES: And thus, my friend, on
5698 Text |           THEODORUS: That is very true, Socrates.~SOCRATES: But, O my friend,
5699 Text |                 is very true, Socrates.~SOCRATES: But, O my friend, when
5700 Text |                only persuade everybody, Socrates, as you do me, of the truth
5701 Text |              and fewer evils among men.~SOCRATES: Evils, Theodorus, can never
5702 Text |                THEODORUS: What is that?~SOCRATES: There are two patterns
5703 Text |           idiots.~THEODORUS: Very true, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Too true, my
5704 Text |         THEODORUS: Very true, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Too true, my friend, as
5705 Text |                 THEODORUS: For my part, Socrates, I would rather have the
5706 Text |                go back to the argument.~SOCRATES: Had we not reached the
5707 Text |          THEODORUS: Certainly it would.~SOCRATES: He ought not to speak of
5708 Text |                 name.~THEODORUS: Right.~SOCRATES: Whatever be the term used,
5709 Text |               THEODORUS: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: But is the aim attained
5710 Text |                that there are mistakes.~SOCRATES: The possibility of error
5711 Text |           future.~THEODORUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: Suppose now, that we ask
5712 Text |                 not so?~THEODORUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And do you extend your
5713 Text |               THEODORUS: How ludicrous!~SOCRATES: And the vinegrower, if
5714 Text |      harp-player?~THEODORUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And in musical composition
5715 Text |          reverse?~THEODORUS: Of course.~SOCRATES: And the cook will be a
5716 Text |              man?~THEODORUS: Certainly, Socrates, he used to profess in the
5717 Text |                all men in this respect.~SOCRATES: To be sure, friend: who
5718 Text |                  THEODORUS: Who indeed?~SOCRATES: And legislation and expediency
5719 Text |                  THEODORUS: Quite true.~SOCRATES: Then we may fairly argue
5720 Text |                 best refutation of him, Socrates; although he is also caught
5721 Text |              direct to his own opinion.~SOCRATES: There are many ways, Theodorus,
5722 Text |              upholders of the doctrine.~SOCRATES: Then we are the more bound,
5723 Text |                drive it out everywhere.~SOCRATES: I suppose, Theodorus, that
5724 Text |              doing geometrical problem.~SOCRATES: Quite right too; but as
5725 Text |               so great?~THEODORUS: Nay, Socrates, not to examine thoroughly
5726 Text |             would be quite intolerable.~SOCRATES: Then examine we must, since
5727 Text |                 motion?~THEODORUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: Here then we have one kind
5728 Text |                  THEODORUS: I think so.~SOCRATES: Say rather that it must
5729 Text |               THEODORUS: You are right.~SOCRATES: And now, having made this
5730 Text |                 are moved in both ways.~SOCRATES: Yes, comrade; for, if not,
5731 Text |                  THEODORUS: To be sure.~SOCRATES: And if they are to be in
5732 Text |           motion?~THEODORUS: Most true.~SOCRATES: Consider a further point:
5733 Text |         remember?~THEODORUS: Of course.~SOCRATES: We may leave the details
5734 Text |        THEODORUS: Yes, they will reply.~SOCRATES: And they are moved in both
5735 Text |                motion is to be perfect.~SOCRATES: If they only moved in place
5736 Text |               flux?~THEODORUS: Exactly.~SOCRATES: But now, since not even
5737 Text |        THEODORUS: How is that possible, Socrates, either in the case of this
5738 Text |                is escaping in the flux?~SOCRATES: And what would you say
5739 Text |               all things are in motion.~SOCRATES: Then we must not speak
5740 Text |               THEODORUS: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: Yet perception is knowledge:
5741 Text |           saying.~THEODORUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: Then when we were asked
5742 Text |               THEODORUS: I suppose not.~SOCRATES: Here, then, is a fine result:
5743 Text |                  THEODORUS: Quite true.~SOCRATES: Yes, Theodorus, except
5744 Text |             they will be quite at home.~SOCRATES: And so, Theodorus, we have
5745 Text |               is.~THEODORUS: Very good, Socrates; and now that the argument
5746 Text |                Theodorus, until you and Socrates have discussed the doctrine
5747 Text |                should prepare to answer Socrates in the remainder of the
5748 Text |                 rest.~THEODORUS: Invite Socrates to an argument—invite horsemen
5749 Text |                him, and he will answer.~SOCRATES: Nevertheless, Theodorus,
5750 Text |                comply! for what reason?~SOCRATES: My reason is that I have
5751 Text |                well; do so if you will.~SOCRATES: Then now, Theaetetus, take
5752 Text |          perception?~THEAETETUS: I did.~SOCRATES: And if any one were to
5753 Text |                   THEAETETUS: I should.~SOCRATES: The free use of words and
5754 Text |                 I should say ‘through,’ Socrates, rather than ‘with.’~SOCRATES:
5755 Text |           Socrates, rather than ‘with.’~SOCRATES: Yes, my boy, for no one
5756 Text |               with you in that opinion.~SOCRATES: The reason why I am thus
5757 Text |                 Of the body, certainly.~SOCRATES: And you would admit that
5758 Text |              THEAETETUS: Of course not.~SOCRATES: If you have any thought
5759 Text |                  THEAETETUS: It cannot.~SOCRATES: How about sounds and colours:
5760 Text |                 exist?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And that either of them
5761 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And that both are two and
5762 Text |              them one?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: You can further observe
5763 Text |                 THEAETETUS: I dare say.~SOCRATES: But through what do you
5764 Text |        Certainly; the faculty of taste.~SOCRATES: Very good; and now tell
5765 Text |               arithmetical conceptions.~SOCRATES: You follow me excellently,
5766 Text |             asking.~THEAETETUS: Indeed, Socrates, I cannot answer; my only
5767 Text |               universals in all things.~SOCRATES: You are a beauty, Theaetetus,
5768 Text |           THEAETETUS: I am quite clear.~SOCRATES: And to which class would
5769 Text |             aspires to know of herself.~SOCRATES: And would you say this
5770 Text |                 other?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And would you say the same
5771 Text |                present with the future.~SOCRATES: And does she not perceive
5772 Text |                 touch?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: But their essence and what
5773 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: The simple sensations which
5774 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Assuredly.~SOCRATES: And can a man attain truth
5775 Text |                 THEAETETUS: Impossible.~SOCRATES: And can he who misses the
5776 Text |                  THEAETETUS: He cannot.~SOCRATES: Then knowledge does not
5777 Text |          attained?~THEAETETUS: Clearly.~SOCRATES: And would you call the
5778 Text |                 certainly not be right.~SOCRATES: And what name would you
5779 Text |                 could be given to them?~SOCRATES: Perception would be the
5780 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Which, as we say, has no
5781 Text |              THEAETETUS: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: And therefore not in science
5782 Text |              knowledge?~THEAETETUS: No.~SOCRATES: Then perception, Theaetetus,
5783 Text |                THEAETETUS: Clearly not, Socrates; and knowledge has now been
5784 Text |              different from perception.~SOCRATES: But the original aim of
5785 Text |            being.~THEAETETUS: You mean, Socrates, if I am not mistaken, what
5786 Text |             called thinking or opining.~SOCRATES: You conceive truly. And
5787 Text |               THEAETETUS: I cannot say, Socrates, that all opinion is knowledge,
5788 Text |               must try to find another.~SOCRATES: That is the way in which
5789 Text |           according to my present view.~SOCRATES: Is it still worth our while
5790 Text |               To what are you alluding?~SOCRATES: There is a point which
5791 Text |            THEAETETUS: Pray what is it?~SOCRATES: How there can be false
5792 Text |                THEAETETUS: Begin again, Socrates,—at least if you think that
5793 Text |               we may take our own time?~SOCRATES: You are quite right, and
5794 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Well, and what is the difficulty?
5795 Text |        THEAETETUS: We certainly say so.~SOCRATES: All things and everything
5796 Text |                  There can be no doubt, Socrates, if you exclude these, that
5797 Text |                 or not knowing a thing.~SOCRATES: That point being now determined,
5798 Text |              know?~THEAETETUS: He must.~SOCRATES: He who knows, cannot but
5799 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Of course.~SOCRATES: What shall we say then?
5800 Text |                 both?~THEAETETUS: That, Socrates, is impossible.~SOCRATES:
5801 Text |                Socrates, is impossible.~SOCRATES: But perhaps he thinks of
5802 Text |            knows neither Theaetetus nor Socrates, and yet he fancies that
5803 Text |              fancies that Theaetetus is Socrates, or Socrates Theaetetus?~
5804 Text |              Theaetetus is Socrates, or Socrates Theaetetus?~THEAETETUS:
5805 Text |                 THEAETETUS: How can he?~SOCRATES: But surely he cannot suppose
5806 Text |                That would be monstrous.~SOCRATES: Where, then, is false opinion?
5807 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Most true.~SOCRATES: Suppose that we remove
5808 Text |           THEAETETUS: What do you mean?~SOCRATES: May we not suspect the
5809 Text |                 again, is not unlikely, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Then suppose
5810 Text |                 not unlikely, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Then suppose some one to
5811 Text |                answer?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: But is there any parallel
5812 Text |           THEAETETUS: What do you mean?~SOCRATES: Can a man see something
5813 Text |                 THEAETETUS: Impossible.~SOCRATES: But if he sees any one
5814 Text |           things?~THEAETETUS: I do not.~SOCRATES: He then who sees some one
5815 Text |                is?~THEAETETUS: Clearly.~SOCRATES: And he who hears anything,
5816 Text |              which is?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And he who touches anything,
5817 Text |         THEAETETUS: That again is true.~SOCRATES: And does not he who thinks,
5818 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And does not he who thinks
5819 Text |                is?~THEAETETUS: I agree.~SOCRATES: Then he who thinks of that
5820 Text |           nothing?~THEAETETUS: Clearly.~SOCRATES: And he who thinks of nothing,
5821 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Obviously.~SOCRATES: Then no one can think that
5822 Text |                THEAETETUS: Clearly not.~SOCRATES: Then to think falsely is
5823 Text |           THEAETETUS: It would seem so.~SOCRATES: Then false opinion has
5824 Text |              THEAETETUS: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: But may not the following
5825 Text |                 name?~THEAETETUS: What?~SOCRATES: May we not suppose that
5826 Text |                has truly false opinion.~SOCRATES: I see, Theaetetus, that
5827 Text |                  What makes you say so?~SOCRATES: You think, if I am not
5828 Text |                 else?~THEAETETUS: I am.~SOCRATES: It is possible then upon
5829 Text |              another?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: But must not the mind,
5830 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Either together or in succession?~
5831 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Very good.~SOCRATES: And do you mean by conceiving,
5832 Text |               THEAETETUS: What is that?~SOCRATES: I mean the conversation
5833 Text |               you?~THEAETETUS: I agree.~SOCRATES: Then when any one thinks
5834 Text |               another?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: But do you ever remember
5835 Text |                kind?~THEAETETUS: Never.~SOCRATES: And do you suppose that
5836 Text |              THEAETETUS: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: But if thinking is talking
5837 Text |               give up the word ‘other,’ Socrates; and I agree to what you
5838 Text |                I agree to what you say.~SOCRATES: If a man has both of them
5839 Text |                other?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: Neither, if he has one
5840 Text |                 in his thoughts at all.~SOCRATES: Then no one who has either
5841 Text |            exist in us.~THEAETETUS: No.~SOCRATES: But if, Theaetetus, this
5842 Text |              THEAETETUS: What are they?~SOCRATES: I will not tell you until
5843 Text |                THEAETETUS: Let me hear.~SOCRATES: I think that we were wrong
5844 Text |               the time, that I may know Socrates, and at a distance see some
5845 Text |               the deception will occur?~SOCRATES: But has not that position
5846 Text |                 know?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: Let us make the assertion
5847 Text |          THEAETETUS: Certainly you may.~SOCRATES: And another and another?~
5848 Text |               another?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: I would have you imagine,
5849 Text |             quality.~THEAETETUS: I see.~SOCRATES: Let us say that this tablet
5850 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Very good.~SOCRATES: Now, when a person has
5851 Text |             THEAETETUS: In what manner?~SOCRATES: When he thinks what he
5852 Text |             amend the former statement?~SOCRATES: I should begin by making
5853 Text |                am unable to follow you.~SOCRATES: A person may think that
5854 Text |                 you less than ever now.~SOCRATES: Hear me once more, then:—
5855 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: Then, first of all, I want
5856 Text |                knows.~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: And that which he does
5857 Text |          THEAETETUS: That is also true.~SOCRATES: See whether you can follow
5858 Text |               can follow me better now: Socrates can recognize Theodorus
5859 Text |        THEAETETUS: You are quite right.~SOCRATES: Then that was the first
5860 Text |                 spoke.~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: The second case was, that
5861 Text |                 know.~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: In the third case, not
5862 Text |        understand me?~THEAETETUS: I do.~SOCRATES: The only possibility of
5863 Text |                ensues.~THEAETETUS: Yes, Socrates, you have described the
5864 Text |               with wonderful exactness.~SOCRATES: Or again, when I know both
5865 Text |              THEAETETUS: No, I did not.~SOCRATES: I meant to say, that when
5866 Text |             supposed.~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: But there was an omission
5867 Text |                it is rightly so called.~SOCRATES: When, therefore, perception
5868 Text |            THEAETETUS: And is not that, Socrates, nobly said?~SOCRATES: Nobly!
5869 Text |             that, Socrates, nobly said?~SOCRATES: Nobly! yes; but wait a
5870 Text |                THEAETETUS: Undoubtedly.~SOCRATES: And the origin of truth
5871 Text |            agree?~THEAETETUS: Entirely.~SOCRATES: But when the heart of any
5872 Text |           ignorant.~THEAETETUS: No man, Socrates, can say anything truer
5873 Text |               anything truer than that.~SOCRATES: Then now we may admit the
5874 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And of true opinion also?~
5875 Text |          opinion also?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: We have at length satisfactorily
5876 Text |                THEAETETUS: Undoubtedly.~SOCRATES: Alas, Theaetetus, what
5877 Text |                  What makes you say so?~SOCRATES: Because I am disheartened
5878 Text |             what puts you out of heart?~SOCRATES: I am not only out of heart,
5879 Text |               any one were to ask me:—O Socrates, have you indeed discovered
5880 Text |           ashamed of our demonstration, Socrates.~SOCRATES: He will say:
5881 Text |                demonstration, Socrates.~SOCRATES: He will say: You mean to
5882 Text |                THEAETETUS: Quite right.~SOCRATES: Well, then, he will say,
5883 Text |           twelve which are in the mind.~SOCRATES: Well, but do you think
5884 Text |         speaking of numbers in general.~SOCRATES: Exactly; and I want you
5885 Text |              that seems to be the case.~SOCRATES: Then do we not come back
5886 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Most true.~SOCRATES: Then false opinion cannot
5887 Text |                It is hard to determine, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And yet the argument
5888 Text |                 to determine, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And yet the argument will
5889 Text |                 THEAETETUS: What is it?~SOCRATES: Let us attempt to explain
5890 Text |               should that be shameless?~SOCRATES: You seem not to be aware
5891 Text |               Nay, but I am well aware.~SOCRATES: And is it not shameless
5892 Text |                avoid these expressions, Socrates, how will you ever argue
5893 Text |             will you ever argue at all?~SOCRATES: I could not, being the
5894 Text |              using the forbidden terms.~SOCRATES: You have heard the common
5895 Text |              remember it at the moment.~SOCRATES: They explain the word ‘
5896 Text |           knowledge.’~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: I should like to make a
5897 Text |                 two expressions differ?~SOCRATES: Perhaps there may be no
5898 Text |           THEAETETUS: I will, if I can.~SOCRATES: I should distinguish ‘having’
5899 Text |                 the correct expression.~SOCRATES: Well, may not a man ‘possess’
5900 Text |                we not?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And yet, in another sense,
5901 Text |              pleases.~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: Once more, then, as in
5902 Text |           aviary—and what is to follow?~SOCRATES: We may suppose that the
5903 Text |              know.~THEAETETUS: Granted.~SOCRATES: And further, when any one
5904 Text |                 THEAETETUS: To be sure.~SOCRATES: Conceive this under the
5905 Text |          general.~THEAETETUS: I follow.~SOCRATES: Having the use of the art,
5906 Text |               another.~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And when transmitting them
5907 Text |              them.~THEAETETUS: Exactly.~SOCRATES: Attend to what follows:
5908 Text |                 mind?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: And he can reckon abstract
5909 Text |           THEAETETUS: Of course he can.~SOCRATES: And to reckon is simply
5910 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: And so he appears to be
5911 Text |             raised?~THEAETETUS: I have.~SOCRATES: May we not pursue the image
5912 Text |                 mind.~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: That was my reason for
5913 Text |                 It would be too absurd, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Shall we say
5914 Text |                be too absurd, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Shall we say then that
5915 Text |                  would be an absurdity.~SOCRATES: Then shall we say that
5916 Text |              very rational explanation.~SOCRATES: But when he catches the
5917 Text |               you not?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And so we are rid of the
5918 Text |                 THEAETETUS: What is it?~SOCRATES: How can the exchange of
5919 Text |           THEAETETUS: What do you mean?~SOCRATES: In the first place, how
5920 Text |          ignorant.~THEAETETUS: Perhaps, Socrates, we may have been wrong
5921 Text |        knowledge, about the same thing.~SOCRATES: I cannot help praising
5922 Text |                 right?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: He will certainly not think
5923 Text |              THEAETETUS: Of course not.~SOCRATES: He will think that his
5924 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Then he will think that
5925 Text |         ignorance?~THEAETETUS: Clearly.~SOCRATES: And thus, after going a
5926 Text |         Theaetetus?~THEAETETUS: Indeed, Socrates, I do not know what we are
5927 Text |                know what we are to say.~SOCRATES: Are not his reproaches
5928 Text |              cannot but agree with you, Socrates, so far as we have yet gone.~
5929 Text |                far as we have yet gone.~SOCRATES: Then, once more, what shall
5930 Text |              lose heart, if you do not.~SOCRATES: What definition will be
5931 Text |                 of any but our old one, Socrates.~SOCRATES: What was it?~
5932 Text |              but our old one, Socrates.~SOCRATES: What was it?~THEAETETUS:
5933 Text |                 are all noble and good.~SOCRATES: He who led the way into
5934 Text |              let us go forward and try.~SOCRATES: The trail soon comes to
5935 Text |                 profession do you mean?~SOCRATES: The profession of the great
5936 Text |                 can only persuade them.~SOCRATES: And would you not say that
5937 Text |                 THEAETETUS: To be sure.~SOCRATES: When, therefore, judges
5938 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And yet, O my friend, if
5939 Text |                  That is a distinction, Socrates, which I have heard made
5940 Text |               explanation are knowable.~SOCRATES: Excellent; but then, how
5941 Text |                that I could follow him.~SOCRATES: Let me give you, then,
5942 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Precisely.~SOCRATES: And you allow and maintain
5943 Text |         knowledge?~THEAETETUS: Exactly.~SOCRATES: Then may we assume, Theaetetus,
5944 Text |                THEAETETUS: At any rate, Socrates, I am satisfied with the
5945 Text |             with the present statement.~SOCRATES: Which is probably correct—
5946 Text |                THEAETETUS: What was it?~SOCRATES: What might seem to be the
5947 Text |         THEAETETUS: And was that wrong?~SOCRATES: We shall soon know; for
5948 Text |              THEAETETUS: What hostages?~SOCRATES: The letters, which are
5949 Text |                THEAETETUS: Yes; he did.~SOCRATES: Let us take them and put
5950 Text |                 THEAETETUS: I think so.~SOCRATES: I think so too; for, suppose
5951 Text |                 I should reply S and O.~SOCRATES: That is the definition
5952 Text |         syllable?~THEAETETUS: I should.~SOCRATES: I wish that you would give
5953 Text |        THEAETETUS: But how can any one, Socrates, tell the elements of an
5954 Text |               but no definition at all.~SOCRATES: Then, I suppose, my friend,
5955 Text |              Yes; I think that we have.~SOCRATES: Well, but have we been
5956 Text |                 THEAETETUS: I think so.~SOCRATES: And do we mean by a syllable
5957 Text |                we mean all the letters.~SOCRATES: Take the case of the two
5958 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: He knows, that is, the
5959 Text |                 and O?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: But can he be ignorant
5960 Text |         THEAETETUS: Such a supposition, Socrates, is monstrous and unmeaning.~
5961 Text |                monstrous and unmeaning.~SOCRATES: But if he cannot know both
5962 Text |                with wonderful celerity.~SOCRATES: Yes, we did not keep watch
5963 Text |           likely notion than the other.~SOCRATES: Take care; let us not be
5964 Text |                 THEAETETUS: No, indeed.~SOCRATES: Let us assume then, as
5965 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Very good.~SOCRATES: And it must have no parts.~
5966 Text |                 parts.~THEAETETUS: Why?~SOCRATES: Because that which has
5967 Text |            parts?~THEAETETUS: I should.~SOCRATES: And would you say that
5968 Text |                that they are different.~SOCRATES: I approve of your readiness,
5969 Text |                the answer is the point.~SOCRATES: According to this new view,
5970 Text |              from all?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: Well, but is there any
5971 Text |                THEAETETUS: Of the same.~SOCRATES: That is of six?~THEAETETUS:
5972 Text |                of six?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And in each form of expression
5973 Text |              the six?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: Again, in speaking of all (
5974 Text |         THEAETETUS: Of course there is.~SOCRATES: And that is six?~THEAETETUS:
5975 Text |                is six?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then in predicating the
5976 Text |              THEAETETUS: Clearly we do.~SOCRATES: Again, the number of the
5977 Text |              they not?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And the number of the stadium
5978 Text |               stadium?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And the army is the number
5979 Text |                thing?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: And the number of each
5980 Text |              each?~THEAETETUS: Exactly.~SOCRATES: Then as many things as
5981 Text |             parts?~THEAETETUS: Clearly.~SOCRATES: But all the parts are admitted
5982 Text |              the all?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: Then the whole is not made
5983 Text |                  That is the inference.~SOCRATES: But is a part a part of
5984 Text |            THEAETETUS: Yes, of the all.~SOCRATES: You make a valiant defence,
5985 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And is not a whole likewise
5986 Text |                between a whole and all.~SOCRATES: But were we not saying
5987 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Then, as I was saying before,
5988 Text |              THEAETETUS: You are right.~SOCRATES: And, in order to avoid
5989 Text |             from them?~THEAETETUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: But if letters are not
5990 Text |                 THEAETETUS: No, indeed, Socrates; for if I admit the existence
5991 Text |               and seek for other parts.~SOCRATES: Quite true, Theaetetus,
5992 Text |                 form?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: But do you remember, my
5993 Text |                 THEAETETUS: I remember.~SOCRATES: And is not this also the
5994 Text |              other reason can be given.~SOCRATES: Then is not the syllable
5995 Text |                 THEAETETUS: To be sure.~SOCRATES: If, then, a syllable is
5996 Text |                whole?~THEAETETUS: True.~SOCRATES: But if it be one and indivisible,
5997 Text |         THEAETETUS: I cannot deny that.~SOCRATES: We cannot, therefore, agree
5998 Text |                 may trust the argument.~SOCRATES: Well, but will you not
5999 Text |            THEAETETUS: What experience?~SOCRATES: Why, that in learning you
6000 Text |                  THEAETETUS: Very true.~SOCRATES: And is the education of