(...) Euthyphro
     Part
1001 Text |                the works which they do.~SOCRATES: Why, my friend, and so
1002 Text |             them?~EUTHYPHRO: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Many and fair, too, are
1003 Text |              earth?~EUTHYPHRO: Exactly.~SOCRATES: And of the many and fair
1004 Text |                I have told you already, Socrates, that to learn all these
1005 Text |             their ruin and destruction.~SOCRATES: I think that you could
1006 Text |      sacrificing?~EUTHYPHRO: Yes, I do.~SOCRATES: And sacrificing is giving
1007 Text |               the gods?~EUTHYPHRO: Yes, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Upon this view,
1008 Text |               EUTHYPHRO: Yes, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Upon this view, then, piety
1009 Text |                understand me capitally, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Yes, my friend;
1010 Text |                 me capitally, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Yes, my friend; the reason
1011 Text |             them?~EUTHYPHRO: Yes, I do.~SOCRATES: Is not the right way of
1012 Text |             want?~EUTHYPHRO: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And the right way of giving
1013 Text |             want.~EUTHYPHRO: Very true, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Then piety, Euthyphro,
1014 Text |         EUTHYPHRO: Very true, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Then piety, Euthyphro,
1015 Text |               you may use, if you like.~SOCRATES: But I have no particular
1016 Text |          EUTHYPHRO: And do you imagine, Socrates, that any benefit accrues
1017 Text |                the gods from our gifts?~SOCRATES: But if not, Euthyphro,
1018 Text |              saying, what pleases them?~SOCRATES: Piety, then, is pleasing
1019 Text |                nothing could be dearer.~SOCRATES: Then once more the assertion
1020 Text |             gods?~EUTHYPHRO: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And when you say this,
1021 Text |            EUTHYPHRO: I quite remember.~SOCRATES: And are you not saying
1022 Text |               you see?~EUTHYPHRO: True.~SOCRATES: Then either we were wrong
1023 Text |                of the two must be true.~SOCRATES: Then we must begin again
1024 Text |                EUTHYPHRO: Another time, Socrates; for I am in a hurry, and
1025 Text |                 hurry, and must go now.~SOCRATES: Alas! my companion, and


The First Alcibiades
     Part
1026 Pre  |             overthrowing the paradox of Socrates, or merely following the
1027 Pre  |         description of the relations of Socrates and Alcibiades. Like the
1028 Pre  |          self-convicted by the words of Socrates. For the disparaging manner
1029 Pre  |         attributed to contemporaries of Socrates and Plato. (1) In the entire
1030 Pre  |                 oral discourses both of Socrates and Plato may have formed
1031 Intro|               is a conversation between Socrates and Alcibiades. Socrates
1032 Intro|                Socrates and Alcibiades. Socrates is represented in the character
1033 Intro|               receiving the advances of Socrates, who, for the best of purposes,
1034 Intro|                an extravagant ambition. Socrates, ‘who knows what is in man,’
1035 Intro|                 If he has had a master, Socrates would like to be informed
1036 Intro|               language of them? To this Socrates answers, that they can teach
1037 Intro|                 expediency are opposed. Socrates, by a series of questions,
1038 Intro|           ambition by the assistance of Socrates. Not that Socrates himself
1039 Intro|        assistance of Socrates. Not that Socrates himself professes to have
1040 Intro|                 to be cross-examined by Socrates. He must know himself; that
1041 Intro|              that I am not; but I hope, Socrates, that by your aid I may
1042 Intro|               same kind with that which Socrates practises upon the youthful
1043 Intro|          knowledge. Here, as elsewhere, Socrates awakens the consciousness
1044 Intro|       characters both of Alcibiades and Socrates in the Symposium, should
1045 Intro|                ascribed to the ironical Socrates the rather unmeaning boast
1046 Intro|                very conclusive words of Socrates. For the arguments by which
1047 Text |               THE DIALOGUE: Alcibiades, Socrates.~SOCRATES: I dare say that
1048 Text |         DIALOGUE: Alcibiades, Socrates.~SOCRATES: I dare say that you may
1049 Text |         remaining.~ALCIBIADES: Perhaps, Socrates, you are not aware that
1050 Text |            should greatly like to know.~SOCRATES: Then if, as you say, you
1051 Text |                 Certainly, let me hear.~SOCRATES: You had better be careful,
1052 Text |                 man, and I will listen.~SOCRATES: I will proceed; and, although
1053 Text |                truth, will reply, Well, Socrates, but what have my hopes
1054 Text |               ALCIBIADES: Your silence, Socrates, was always a surprise to
1055 Text |              them? Can you tell me why?~SOCRATES: You want to know whether
1056 Text |               be not a troublesome one.~SOCRATES: Will you be troubled at
1057 Text |                 ALCIBIADES: Not at all.~SOCRATES: Then please to answer.~
1058 Text |             answer.~ALCIBIADES: Ask me.~SOCRATES: Have you not the intention
1059 Text |              what more you have to say.~SOCRATES: You do, then, mean, as
1060 Text |               do know better than they.~SOCRATES: Then you are a good adviser
1061 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And do you know anything
1062 Text |                ALCIBIADES: That is all.~SOCRATES: And would you have ever
1063 Text |               ALCIBIADES: I should not.~SOCRATES: And would you have been
1064 Text |              ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: Then there was a time when
1065 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: I think that I know tolerably
1066 Text |              the whole of my schooling.~SOCRATES: And are you going to get
1067 Text |                 ALCIBIADES: No, indeed.~SOCRATES: Or about the touch of the
1068 Text |              ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: And they are not in the
1069 Text |           assembly?~ALCIBIADES: Hardly.~SOCRATES: Then what are the deliberations
1070 Text |               building?~ALCIBIADES: No.~SOCRATES: For the builder will advise
1071 Text |              that?~ALCIBIADES: He will.~SOCRATES: Nor about divination?~ALCIBIADES:
1072 Text |             divination?~ALCIBIADES: No.~SOCRATES: About that again the diviner
1073 Text |                 will?~ALCIBIADES: True.~SOCRATES: Whether he be little or
1074 Text |              ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: A man is a good adviser
1075 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Assuredly.~SOCRATES: Whether their counsellor
1076 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Of course.~SOCRATES: Then what will be the subject
1077 Text |               About their own concerns, Socrates.~SOCRATES: You mean about
1078 Text |                 own concerns, Socrates.~SOCRATES: You mean about shipbuilding,
1079 Text |                 advise them about that.~SOCRATES: I suppose, because you
1080 Text |              reason?~ALCIBIADES: It is.~SOCRATES: Then about what concerns
1081 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: About war, Socrates, or about peace, or about
1082 Text |            other concerns of the state.~SOCRATES: You mean, when they deliberate
1083 Text |                manner?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And they ought to go to
1084 Text |                to war?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And when it is better?~
1085 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And for as long a time
1086 Text |                better?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: But suppose the Athenians
1087 Text |               the master of gymnastics.~SOCRATES: And can you tell me on
1088 Text |               wrestle?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And as much as is best?~
1089 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And at such times as are
1090 Text |              are best?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Again; you sometimes accompany
1091 Text |                 dance?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: When it is well to do so?~
1092 Text |                 do so?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And as much as is well?~
1093 Text |              well?~ALCIBIADES: Just so.~SOCRATES: And as you speak of an
1094 Text |                I do not understand you.~SOCRATES: Then try to do as I do;
1095 Text |               to rule.~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And was not the art of
1096 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And I called the excellence
1097 Text |         gymnastic?~ALCIBIADES: You did.~SOCRATES: And I was right?~ALCIBIADES:
1098 Text |                  I think that you were.~SOCRATES: Well, now,—for you should
1099 Text |            ALCIBIADES: Indeed I cannot.~SOCRATES: Then let me put the matter
1100 Text |                  The Muses do you mean, Socrates?~SOCRATES: Yes, I do; and
1101 Text |            Muses do you mean, Socrates?~SOCRATES: Yes, I do; and what is
1102 Text |            suppose that you mean music.~SOCRATES: Yes, that is my meaning;
1103 Text |               To be musical, I suppose.~SOCRATES: Very good; and now please
1104 Text |                 really cannot tell you.~SOCRATES: But if you were offering
1105 Text |          disgraceful?~ALCIBIADES: Very.~SOCRATES: Well, then, consider and
1106 Text |            thinking, and I cannot tell.~SOCRATES: But you surely know what
1107 Text |                 we have been defrauded.~SOCRATES: And how does this happen?
1108 Text |       ALCIBIADES: Do you mean by ‘how,’ Socrates, whether we suffered these
1109 Text |              things justly or unjustly?~SOCRATES: Exactly.~ALCIBIADES: There
1110 Text |                between just and unjust.~SOCRATES: And would you advise the
1111 Text |              admit that they were just.~SOCRATES: He would not go to war,
1112 Text |          Neither lawful nor honourable.~SOCRATES: Then you, too, would address
1113 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: What, then, is justice
1114 Text |               war?~ALCIBIADES: Clearly.~SOCRATES: But how is this, friend
1115 Text |            ALCIBIADES: You are mocking, Socrates.~SOCRATES: No, indeed; I
1116 Text |              You are mocking, Socrates.~SOCRATES: No, indeed; I most solemnly
1117 Text |               unjust in some other way?~SOCRATES: Yes; if you have discovered
1118 Text |             that I could discover them?~SOCRATES: I am sure that you might,
1119 Text |             think that I would enquire?~SOCRATES: Yes; if you thought that
1120 Text |               time when I did so think?~SOCRATES: Very good; and can you
1121 Text |                  I thought that I knew.~SOCRATES: And two years ago, and
1122 Text |                same?~ALCIBIADES: I did.~SOCRATES: And more than four years
1123 Text |               you not?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And then I am quite sure
1124 Text |        ALCIBIADES: Why are you so sure?~SOCRATES: Because I often heard you
1125 Text |       ALCIBIADES: But what was I to do, Socrates, when anybody cheated me?~
1126 Text |                when anybody cheated me?~SOCRATES: And how can you say, ‘What
1127 Text |               that I was being cheated.~SOCRATES: Then you suppose yourself
1128 Text |         Certainly; and I did know then.~SOCRATES: And when did you discover
1129 Text |              ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: And when did you think
1130 Text |               time?~ALCIBIADES: Really, Socrates, I cannot say.~SOCRATES:
1131 Text |                 Socrates, I cannot say.~SOCRATES: Then you did not learn
1132 Text |                ALCIBIADES: Clearly not.~SOCRATES: But just before you said
1133 Text |                that other people learn.~SOCRATES: So you said before, and
1134 Text |                ALCIBIADES: Of the many.~SOCRATES: Do you take refuge in them?
1135 Text |                 they not able to teach?~SOCRATES: They could not teach you
1136 Text |               justice?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And can they teach the
1137 Text |               than to play at draughts.~SOCRATES: What things?~ALCIBIADES:
1138 Text |             teachers, as you call them.~SOCRATES: Why, yes, my friend; and
1139 Text |                ALCIBIADES: Why is that?~SOCRATES: Why, because they have
1140 Text |             ALCIBIADES: What qualities?~SOCRATES: Why, you know that knowledge
1141 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And if they know, they
1142 Text |                differ?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And would you say that
1143 Text |                 differ?~ALCIBIADES: No.~SOCRATES: Then how can they teach
1144 Text |                ALCIBIADES: They cannot.~SOCRATES: Well, but do you imagine
1145 Text |                Greek.~ALCIBIADES: True.~SOCRATES: These, as we were saying,
1146 Text |                ALCIBIADES: They do not.~SOCRATES: Then they may be expected
1147 Text |                things?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And if we want to instruct
1148 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Very true.~SOCRATES: But if we wanted further
1149 Text |              ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: And you have a sufficient
1150 Text |            about them?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And suppose that we wanted
1151 Text |             ALCIBIADES: They would not.~SOCRATES: And you would have a proof
1152 Text |         variance?~ALCIBIADES: I should.~SOCRATES: Well, but are the many
1153 Text |              ALCIBIADES: Assuredly not, Socrates.~SOCRATES: There is no subject
1154 Text |                Assuredly not, Socrates.~SOCRATES: There is no subject about
1155 Text |             variance?~ALCIBIADES: None.~SOCRATES: I do not suppose that you
1156 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: No indeed.~SOCRATES: But of the quarrels about
1157 Text |                 ALCIBIADES: To be sure, Socrates.~SOCRATES: A difference
1158 Text |       ALCIBIADES: To be sure, Socrates.~SOCRATES: A difference of just and
1159 Text |                poems?~ALCIBIADES: True.~SOCRATES: Which difference caused
1160 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Very true.~SOCRATES: And when the Athenians
1161 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Very true.~SOCRATES: But can they be said to
1162 Text |                ALCIBIADES: Clearly not.~SOCRATES: And yet those whom you
1163 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Very true.~SOCRATES: But how are you ever likely
1164 Text |                 you say, I suppose not.~SOCRATES: See, again, how inaccurately
1165 Text |            ALCIBIADES: In what respect?~SOCRATES: In saying that I say so.~
1166 Text |                 of the just and unjust?~SOCRATES: No; I did not.~ALCIBIADES:
1167 Text |                ALCIBIADES: Did I, then?~SOCRATES: Yes.~ALCIBIADES: How was
1168 Text |               ALCIBIADES: How was that?~SOCRATES: Let me explain. Suppose
1169 Text |                   ALCIBIADES: I should.~SOCRATES: And by how much greater?~
1170 Text |            greater?~ALCIBIADES: By one.~SOCRATES: Which of us now says that
1171 Text |             than one?~ALCIBIADES: I do.~SOCRATES: Did not I ask, and you
1172 Text |              question?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then who is speaking? I
1173 Text |            answer me?~ALCIBIADES: I am.~SOCRATES: Or suppose that I ask and
1174 Text |          letters which make up the name Socrates, which of us is the speaker?~
1175 Text |              speaker?~ALCIBIADES: I am.~SOCRATES: Now let us put the case
1176 Text |               ALCIBIADES: I should say, Socrates, that the answerer was the
1177 Text |               answerer was the speaker.~SOCRATES: And have I not been the
1178 Text |               through?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And you the answerer?~ALCIBIADES:
1179 Text |          answerer?~ALCIBIADES: Just so.~SOCRATES: Which of us, then, was
1180 Text |           ALCIBIADES: The inference is, Socrates, that I was the speaker.~
1181 Text |                 that I was the speaker.~SOCRATES: Did not some one say that
1182 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Very true.~SOCRATES: Then, Alcibiades, the result
1183 Text |              insanity.~ALCIBIADES: But, Socrates, I think that the Athenians
1184 Text |            rightly and come to no good.~SOCRATES: Well, but granting that
1185 Text |         expedient?~ALCIBIADES: Why not, Socrates?—But I am not going to be
1186 Text |              when I made the discovery.~SOCRATES: What a way you have! When
1187 Text |       ALCIBIADES: But I am not certain, Socrates, whether I shall be able
1188 Text |            discuss the matter with you.~SOCRATES: Then imagine, my dear fellow,
1189 Text |          individually.~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And is not the same person
1190 Text |              letters.~ALCIBIADES: True.~SOCRATES: And about number, will
1191 Text |         persuade many?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And this will be he who
1192 Text |                 ALCIBIADES: Quite true.~SOCRATES: And cannot you persuade
1193 Text |               ALCIBIADES: I suppose so.~SOCRATES: And that of which you can
1194 Text |              you know?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And the only difference
1195 Text |               ALCIBIADES: I suppose so.~SOCRATES: Well, then, since the same
1196 Text |         ALCIBIADES: You take liberties, Socrates.~SOCRATES: I shall take
1197 Text |               take liberties, Socrates.~SOCRATES: I shall take the liberty
1198 Text |                me.~ALCIBIADES: Proceed.~SOCRATES: Answer my questions—that
1199 Text |             like you to be the speaker.~SOCRATES: What, do you not wish to
1200 Text |             ALCIBIADES: Certainly I do.~SOCRATES: And can you be persuaded
1201 Text |                ALCIBIADES: I think not.~SOCRATES: Then you shall answer;
1202 Text |                 I can come to any harm.~SOCRATES: A true prophecy! Let me
1203 Text |         sometimes not?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And sometimes honourable
1204 Text |           ALCIBIADES: What do you mean?~SOCRATES: I am asking if you ever
1205 Text |                just?~ALCIBIADES: Never.~SOCRATES: All just things are honourable?~
1206 Text |            honourable?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And are honourable things
1207 Text |             ALCIBIADES: I rather think, Socrates, that some honourable things
1208 Text |             honourable things are evil.~SOCRATES: And are some dishonourable
1209 Text |           things good?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: You mean in such a case
1210 Text |               safety?~ALCIBIADES: True.~SOCRATES: And to rescue another under
1211 Text |              courage?~ALCIBIADES: True.~SOCRATES: But evil in respect of
1212 Text |                wounds?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And the courage which is
1213 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Then the rescue of one’
1214 Text |              another?~ALCIBIADES: True.~SOCRATES: And if honourable, then
1215 Text |                 evil?~ALCIBIADES: Good.~SOCRATES: And the greatest goods
1216 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: What would you say of courage?
1217 Text |            rather die than be a coward.~SOCRATES: Then you think that cowardice
1218 Text |                evils?~ALCIBIADES: I do.~SOCRATES: As bad as death, I suppose?~
1219 Text |               suppose?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And life and courage are
1220 Text |             cowardice?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And they are what you would
1221 Text |                desire?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Is this because you think
1222 Text |                 worst?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And you would term the
1223 Text |             work?~ALCIBIADES: I should.~SOCRATES: But evil because of the
1224 Text |                ensues?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Might we not describe their
1225 Text |               of them?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And they are honourable
1226 Text |                 evil?~ALCIBIADES: True.~SOCRATES: Then when you say that
1227 Text |             believe that you are right, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Nothing honourable,
1228 Text |                you are right, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Nothing honourable, regarded
1229 Text |                ALCIBIADES: Clearly not.~SOCRATES: Look at the matter yet
1230 Text |             acts well?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And he who acts well is
1231 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Of course.~SOCRATES: And the happy are those
1232 Text |                 good?~ALCIBIADES: True.~SOCRATES: And they obtain good by
1233 Text |            honourably?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then acting well is a good?~
1234 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And happiness is a good?~
1235 Text |                a good?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then the good and the honourable
1236 Text |                 ALCIBIADES: Manifestly.~SOCRATES: Then, if the argument holds,
1237 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And is the good expedient
1238 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Expedient.~SOCRATES: Do you remember our admissions
1239 Text |               must also act honourably.~SOCRATES: And the honourable is the
1240 Text |              the good?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And the good is expedient?~
1241 Text |             expedient?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then, Alcibiades, the just
1242 Text |          ALCIBIADES: I should infer so.~SOCRATES: And all this I prove out
1243 Text |              acknowledge it to be true.~SOCRATES: And having acknowledged
1244 Text |         ALCIBIADES: I solemnly declare, Socrates, that I do not know what
1245 Text |                 in successive instants.~SOCRATES: And are you not aware of
1246 Text |            ALCIBIADES: Indeed I am not.~SOCRATES: Do you suppose that if
1247 Text |              not suppose that I should.~SOCRATES: You would feel no doubt;
1248 Text |               ALCIBIADES: I suppose so.~SOCRATES: And the reason why you
1249 Text |                ALCIBIADES: Very likely.~SOCRATES: And if you are perplexed
1250 Text |             clear?~ALCIBIADES: I agree.~SOCRATES: But is this always the
1251 Text |            ALCIBIADES: Certainly he is.~SOCRATES: And do you know how to
1252 Text |              ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: And in this case, too,
1253 Text |              perplexed?~ALCIBIADES: No.~SOCRATES: Do you see the reason why,
1254 Text |               you?~ALCIBIADES: Tell me.~SOCRATES: The reason is, that you
1255 Text |                again; what do you mean?~SOCRATES: Ask yourself; are you in
1256 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Very true.~SOCRATES: And do you think and perplex
1257 Text |                 ALCIBIADES: The latter.~SOCRATES: Or if you were on a voyage,
1258 Text |               the concern of the pilot.~SOCRATES: Then you are not perplexed
1259 Text |              ALCIBIADES: I imagine not.~SOCRATES: Do you not see, then, that
1260 Text |                 more, what do you mean?~SOCRATES: I suppose that we begin
1261 Text |                 doing?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: But when people think that
1262 Text |                others?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And so there is a class
1263 Text |             ignorant?~ALCIBIADES: True.~SOCRATES: Who, then, are the persons
1264 Text |              ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: But if neither those who
1265 Text |            ALCIBIADES: Yes, only those.~SOCRATES: Then this is ignorance
1266 Text |           mischievous?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And most mischievous and
1267 Text |            matters?~ALCIBIADES: By far.~SOCRATES: And can there be any matters
1268 Text |            ALCIBIADES: There cannot be.~SOCRATES: And these, as you were
1269 Text |           perplex you?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: But if you are perplexed,
1270 Text |                fear that you are right.~SOCRATES: And now see what has happened
1271 Text |              Pericles.~ALCIBIADES: Yes, Socrates; and Pericles is said not
1272 Text |                 hope of gaining wisdom.~SOCRATES: Very good; but did you
1273 Text |            liked wise.~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And you, whom he taught,
1274 Text |                 same?~ALCIBIADES: True.~SOCRATES: And in like manner the
1275 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: When a person is enabled
1276 Text |            matter.~ALCIBIADES: I agree.~SOCRATES: Well, and did Pericles
1277 Text |             sons wise?~ALCIBIADES: But, Socrates, if the two sons of Pericles
1278 Text |             that to do with the matter?~SOCRATES: Well, but did he make your
1279 Text |               no use in talking of him.~SOCRATES: But if Cleinias is a madman
1280 Text |               for not listening to him.~SOCRATES: But did you ever hear of
1281 Text |              never did hear of any one.~SOCRATES: Well, and in reference
1282 Text |              ALCIBIADES: With your aid, Socrates, I will. And indeed, when
1283 Text |                 to be quite uneducated.~SOCRATES: What is the inference?~
1284 Text |                 get the better of them.~SOCRATES: My dear friend, what a
1285 Text |           ALCIBIADES: What do you mean, Socrates; why do you say so?~SOCRATES:
1286 Text |            Socrates; why do you say so?~SOCRATES: I am grieved when I think
1287 Text |              love.~ALCIBIADES: At what?~SOCRATES: At your fancying that the
1288 Text |                  what others are there?~SOCRATES: Is that a question which
1289 Text |              contest is not with these?~SOCRATES: And suppose that you were
1290 Text |              would certainly be my aim.~SOCRATES: Verily, then, you have
1291 Text |               Of whom are you speaking, Socrates?~SOCRATES: Why, you surely
1292 Text |                 you speaking, Socrates?~SOCRATES: Why, you surely know that
1293 Text |                ALCIBIADES: True enough.~SOCRATES: And if you meant to be
1294 Text |             believe that you are right.~SOCRATES: Oh no, my friend, I am
1295 Text |             ALCIBIADES: There, I think, Socrates, that you are right; I do
1296 Text |            different from anybody else.~SOCRATES: But, my dear friend, do
1297 Text |                  What am I to consider?~SOCRATES: In the first place, will
1298 Text |               have such a fear of them.~SOCRATES: And do you think that you
1299 Text |             shall be greatly benefited.~SOCRATES: And this is one very important
1300 Text |               is bad.~ALCIBIADES: True.~SOCRATES: In the next place, consider
1301 Text |              false.~ALCIBIADES: How so?~SOCRATES: Let me ask you whether
1302 Text |                 Clearly in noble races.~SOCRATES: Are not those who are well
1303 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Then let us compare our
1304 Text |              Eurysaces, and he to Zeus!~SOCRATES: And mine, noble Alcibiades,
1305 Text |               pains which are required, Socrates,—can you tell me?~SOCRATES:
1306 Text |              Socrates,—can you tell me?~SOCRATES: Yes, I can; but we must
1307 Text |               ALCIBIADES: What is that?~SOCRATES: I have a guardian who is
1308 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Who is he, Socrates?~SOCRATES: God, Alcibiades,
1309 Text |        ALCIBIADES: Who is he, Socrates?~SOCRATES: God, Alcibiades, who up
1310 Text |            ALCIBIADES: You are jesting, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Perhaps, at any
1311 Text |              You are jesting, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Perhaps, at any rate, I
1312 Text |                 not far wrong about me.~SOCRATES: And certainly not about
1313 Text |         ALCIBIADES: But what can we do?~SOCRATES: There must be no hesitation
1314 Text |               That would not become us, Socrates.~SOCRATES: No, indeed, and
1315 Text |                not become us, Socrates.~SOCRATES: No, indeed, and we ought
1316 Text |            possible?~ALCIBIADES: We do.~SOCRATES: In what sort of virtue?~
1317 Text |                 the virtue of good men.~SOCRATES: Who are good in what?~ALCIBIADES:
1318 Text |              the management of affairs.~SOCRATES: What sort of affairs? Equestrian
1319 Text |              ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: You mean that about them
1320 Text |              horsemen?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Well, naval affairs?~ALCIBIADES:
1321 Text |                affairs?~ALCIBIADES: No.~SOCRATES: You mean that we should
1322 Text |            about them?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then what affairs? And
1323 Text |              occupy Athenian gentlemen.~SOCRATES: And when you speak of gentlemen,
1324 Text |           unwise?~ALCIBIADES: The wise.~SOCRATES: And a man is good in respect
1325 Text |               is wise?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And evil in respect of
1326 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: The shoemaker, for example,
1327 Text |                 shoes?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then he is good in that?~
1328 Text |                that?~ALCIBIADES: He is.~SOCRATES: But in respect of the making
1329 Text |                unwise?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then in that he is bad?~
1330 Text |                is bad?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then upon this view of
1331 Text |             also bad?~ALCIBIADES: True.~SOCRATES: But would you say that
1332 Text |              ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: Then whom do you call the
1333 Text |               able to rule in the city.~SOCRATES: Not, surely, over horses?~
1334 Text |              ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: But over men?~ALCIBIADES:
1335 Text |              over men?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: When they are sick?~ALCIBIADES:
1336 Text |               are sick?~ALCIBIADES: No.~SOCRATES: Or on a voyage?~ALCIBIADES:
1337 Text |                 voyage?~ALCIBIADES: No.~SOCRATES: Or reaping the harvest?~
1338 Text |                harvest?~ALCIBIADES: No.~SOCRATES: When they are doing something
1339 Text |                something, I should say.~SOCRATES: I wish that you would explain
1340 Text |          citizens do in our daily life.~SOCRATES: Those of whom you speak
1341 Text |             other men?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Are they ruling over the
1342 Text |           ALCIBIADES: No; they are not.~SOCRATES: That would be the office
1343 Text |                 pilot?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: But, perhaps you mean that
1344 Text |              ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: That would be the business
1345 Text |                chorus?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then what is the meaning
1346 Text |              dealings with one another.~SOCRATES: And what sort of an art
1347 Text |       ALCIBIADES: The art of the pilot.~SOCRATES: And, if I may recur to
1348 Text |               were just now mentioning.~SOCRATES: And what do you call the
1349 Text |               should say, good counsel, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And is the art
1350 Text |                 good counsel, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And is the art of the pilot
1351 Text |                counsel?~ALCIBIADES: No.~SOCRATES: But good counsel?~ALCIBIADES:
1352 Text |           preservation of the voyagers.~SOCRATES: True. And what is the aim
1353 Text |               preservation of the city.~SOCRATES: And what is that of which
1354 Text |              the same?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And if you were to ask
1355 Text |                 them.~ALCIBIADES: True.~SOCRATES: And what would you say
1356 Text |               ALCIBIADES: I should say, Socrates:—the presence of friendship
1357 Text |                 of hatred and division.~SOCRATES: And do you mean by friendship
1358 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Agreement.~SOCRATES: What art makes cities agree
1359 Text |                 ALCIBIADES: Arithmetic.~SOCRATES: And private individuals?~
1360 Text |      individuals?~ALCIBIADES: The same.~SOCRATES: And what art makes each
1361 Text |          himself?~ALCIBIADES: The same.~SOCRATES: And what art makes each
1362 Text |               measure?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Individuals are agreed
1363 Text |               equally?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And the same holds of the
1364 Text |              balance?~ALCIBIADES: True.~SOCRATES: But what is the other agreement
1365 Text |        ALCIBIADES: I should suppose so.~SOCRATES: But what is the nature
1366 Text |               between husband and wife.~SOCRATES: But can a man, Alcibiades,
1367 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: No, truly.~SOCRATES: Nor has he any need, for
1368 Text |        accomplishment.~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And would a woman agree
1369 Text |              ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: I suppose that the use
1370 Text |   accomplishment?~ALCIBIADES: It would.~SOCRATES: Then, upon your view, women
1371 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Then in their knowledge
1372 Text |               ALCIBIADES: There is not.~SOCRATES: Nor can there be friendship,
1373 Text |                ALCIBIADES: Plainly not.~SOCRATES: Then women are not loved
1374 Text |              ALCIBIADES: I suppose not.~SOCRATES: Nor men by women when they
1375 Text |               own work?~ALCIBIADES: No.~SOCRATES: Nor are states well administered,
1376 Text |                  I should rather think, Socrates, that the reverse is the
1377 Text |              truth. (Compare Republic.)~SOCRATES: What! do you mean to say
1378 Text |         respectively do their own work.~SOCRATES: That was not what you were
1379 Text |                 ALCIBIADES: Impossible.~SOCRATES: And when individuals are
1380 Text |                What is just, certainly.~SOCRATES: And when individuals do
1381 Text |             suppose that there must be, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Then what do
1382 Text |                there must be, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Then what do you mean by
1383 Text |                ALCIBIADES: But, indeed, Socrates, I do not know what I am
1384 Text |                 most disgraceful state.~SOCRATES: Nevertheless, cheer up;
1385 Text |                  And what should he do, Socrates, who would make the discovery?~
1386 Text |               would make the discovery?~SOCRATES: Answer questions, Alcibiades;
1387 Text |               answering, I will answer.~SOCRATES: And first of all, that
1388 Text |          ALCIBIADES: I should think so.~SOCRATES: When does a man take care
1389 Text |        ALCIBIADES: I do not understand.~SOCRATES: Let me take the hand as
1390 Text |           finger only?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And the shoe in like manner
1391 Text |              the foot?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And when we take care of
1392 Text |        ALCIBIADES: I do not comprehend, Socrates.~SOCRATES: But you would
1393 Text |               not comprehend, Socrates.~SOCRATES: But you would admit, Alcibiades,
1394 Text |            expression?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And taking proper care
1395 Text |             improving?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And what is the art which
1396 Text |                 ALCIBIADES: Shoemaking.~SOCRATES: Then by shoemaking we take
1397 Text |                 shoes?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And do we by shoemaking
1398 Text |          ALCIBIADES: By some other art.~SOCRATES: And the same art improves
1399 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Very true.~SOCRATES: Which is gymnastic?~ALCIBIADES:
1400 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Then by gymnastic we take
1401 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Very true.~SOCRATES: And by gymnastic we take
1402 Text |                 hands?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And by gymnastic we take
1403 Text |              body?~ALCIBIADES: Clearly.~SOCRATES: Then the art which takes
1404 Text |                thing?~ALCIBIADES: True.~SOCRATES: Then in taking care of
1405 Text |              ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: For the art which takes
1406 Text |                ALCIBIADES: Clearly not.~SOCRATES: And now let me ask you
1407 Text |               ALCIBIADES: I cannot say.~SOCRATES: At any rate, thus much
1408 Text |               better?~ALCIBIADES: True.~SOCRATES: But should we ever have
1409 Text |                 ALCIBIADES: Impossible.~SOCRATES: Nor should we know what
1410 Text |               ALCIBIADES: That is true.~SOCRATES: And can we ever know what
1411 Text |                 ALCIBIADES: Impossible.~SOCRATES: And is self-knowledge such
1412 Text |           ALCIBIADES: At times I fancy, Socrates, that anybody can know himself;
1413 Text |           appears to be very difficult.~SOCRATES: But whether easy or difficult,
1414 Text |               ALCIBIADES: That is true.~SOCRATES: Well, then, let us see
1415 Text |              ALCIBIADES: You say truly.~SOCRATES: Come, now, I beseech you,
1416 Text |               with me?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: As I am, with you?~ALCIBIADES:
1417 Text |              with you?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: That is to say, I, Socrates,
1418 Text |            SOCRATES: That is to say, I, Socrates, am talking?~ALCIBIADES:
1419 Text |               talking?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And Alcibiades is my hearer?~
1420 Text |                hearer?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And I in talking use words?~
1421 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And talking and using words
1422 Text |                 ALCIBIADES: To be sure.~SOCRATES: And the user is not the
1423 Text |           ALCIBIADES: What do you mean?~SOCRATES: I will explain; the shoemaker,
1424 Text |               cutting?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: But the tool is not the
1425 Text |              ALCIBIADES: Of course not.~SOCRATES: And in the same way the
1426 Text |             himself?~ALCIBIADES: It is.~SOCRATES: Now the question which
1427 Text |                 uses?~ALCIBIADES: I do.~SOCRATES: Then what shall we say
1428 Text |                 With his hands as well.~SOCRATES: He uses his hands too?~
1429 Text |             hands too?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And does he use his eyes
1430 Text |           leather?~ALCIBIADES: He does.~SOCRATES: And we admit that the user
1431 Text |               he uses?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then the shoemaker and
1432 Text |               use?~ALCIBIADES: Clearly.~SOCRATES: And does not a man use
1433 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And that which uses is
1434 Text |                 used?~ALCIBIADES: True.~SOCRATES: Then a man is not the same
1435 Text |                  That is the inference.~SOCRATES: What is he, then?~ALCIBIADES:
1436 Text |               ALCIBIADES: I cannot say.~SOCRATES: Nay, you can say that he
1437 Text |              the body.~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And the user of the body
1438 Text |              ALCIBIADES: Yes, the soul.~SOCRATES: And the soul rules?~ALCIBIADES:
1439 Text |                 rules?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Let me make an assertion
1440 Text |                 ALCIBIADES: What is it?~SOCRATES: That man is one of three
1441 Text |              ALCIBIADES: What are they?~SOCRATES: Soul, body, or both together
1442 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: But did we not say that
1443 Text |                ALCIBIADES: Yes, we did.~SOCRATES: And does the body rule
1444 Text |              ALCIBIADES: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: It is subject, as we were
1445 Text |                saying?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then that is not the principle
1446 Text |          ALCIBIADES: It would seem not.~SOCRATES: But may we say that the
1447 Text |                ALCIBIADES: Very likely.~SOCRATES: The most unlikely of all
1448 Text |                 rule.~ALCIBIADES: True.~SOCRATES: But since neither the body,
1449 Text |               man?~ALCIBIADES: Just so.~SOCRATES: Is anything more required
1450 Text |                think, quite sufficient.~SOCRATES: And if the proof, although
1451 Text |              ALCIBIADES: What was that?~SOCRATES: What I meant, when I said
1452 Text |           ALCIBIADES: There is nothing.~SOCRATES: Then we may truly conceive
1453 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Very true.~SOCRATES: And that is just what I
1454 Text |               was saying before—that I, Socrates, am not arguing or talking
1455 Text |                 soul.~ALCIBIADES: True.~SOCRATES: Then he who bids a man
1456 Text |                That appears to be true.~SOCRATES: He whose knowledge only
1457 Text |               ALCIBIADES: That is true.~SOCRATES: Then neither the physician
1458 Text |                ALCIBIADES: He does not.~SOCRATES: The husbandmen and the
1459 Text |               ALCIBIADES: That is true.~SOCRATES: Then if temperance is the
1460 Text |         temperate?~ALCIBIADES: I agree.~SOCRATES: And this is the reason
1461 Text |                 ALCIBIADES: Quite true.~SOCRATES: Again, he who cherishes
1462 Text |               ALCIBIADES: That is true.~SOCRATES: But he who cherishes his
1463 Text |           himself?~ALCIBIADES: I agree.~SOCRATES: Then the money-maker has
1464 Text |             concerns?~ALCIBIADES: True.~SOCRATES: And if any one has fallen
1465 Text |           Alcibiades?~ALCIBIADES: True.~SOCRATES: But he who loves your soul
1466 Text |                the necessary inference.~SOCRATES: The lover of the body goes
1467 Text |                fades?~ALCIBIADES: True.~SOCRATES: But he who loves the soul
1468 Text |                virtue?~ALCIBIADES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And I am the lover who
1469 Text |              are gone?~ALCIBIADES: Yes, Socrates; and therein you do well,
1470 Text |              hope that you will remain.~SOCRATES: Then you must try to look
1471 Text |               best.~ALCIBIADES: I will.~SOCRATES: The fact is, that there
1472 Text |                  and he is his darling,—Socrates, the son of Sophroniscus
1473 Text |           Phaenarete.~ALCIBIADES: True.~SOCRATES: And did you not say, that
1474 Text |               ALCIBIADES: That is true.~SOCRATES: The reason was that I loved
1475 Text |               ALCIBIADES: What caution?~SOCRATES: Practise yourself, sweet
1476 Text |                ALCIBIADES: Good advice, Socrates, but I wish that you would
1477 Text |                 to take care of myself.~SOCRATES: Have we not made an advance?
1478 Text |               ALCIBIADES: That is true.~SOCRATES: And the next step will
1479 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Leaving the care of our
1480 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Very good.~SOCRATES: But how can we have a perfect
1481 Text |              have you in your thoughts, Socrates?~SOCRATES: I will tell you
1482 Text |                your thoughts, Socrates?~SOCRATES: I will tell you what I
1483 Text |           ALCIBIADES: What do you mean?~SOCRATES: Consider; if some one were
1484 Text |            itself?~ALCIBIADES: Clearly.~SOCRATES: And what are the objects
1485 Text |         ourselves?~ALCIBIADES: Clearly, Socrates, in looking at mirrors and
1486 Text |                at mirrors and the like.~SOCRATES: Very true; and is there
1487 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Did you ever observe that
1488 Text |         ALCIBIADES: That is quite true.~SOCRATES: Then the eye, looking at
1489 Text |            ALCIBIADES: That is evident.~SOCRATES: But looking at anything
1490 Text |                  ALCIBIADES: Very true.~SOCRATES: Then if the eye is to see
1491 Text |              resides?~ALCIBIADES: True.~SOCRATES: And if the soul, my dear
1492 Text |              this?~ALCIBIADES: I agree, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And do we know
1493 Text |          ALCIBIADES: I agree, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And do we know of any part
1494 Text |              ALCIBIADES: There is none.~SOCRATES: Then this is that part
1495 Text |           himself?~ALCIBIADES: Clearly.~SOCRATES: And self-knowledge we agree
1496 Text |               wisdom?~ALCIBIADES: True.~SOCRATES: But if we have no self-knowledge
1497 Text |                 ALCIBIADES: How can we, Socrates?~SOCRATES: You mean, that
1498 Text |       ALCIBIADES: How can we, Socrates?~SOCRATES: You mean, that if you did
1499 Text |              would be quite impossible.~SOCRATES: Nor should we know that
1500 Text |               ALCIBIADES: How could we?~SOCRATES: And if we did not know