(...) Laches
     Part
2501 Text |               willing to discourse with Socrates in his own manner; but you
2502 Text |               hater of discourse. As to Socrates, I have no knowledge of
2503 Text |                 add ‘of the good only.’ Socrates must be willing to allow
2504 Text |                 with me. And therefore, Socrates, I give you notice that
2505 Text |                 difference of our ages.~SOCRATES: I cannot say that either
2506 Text |              act upon your conclusions.~SOCRATES: Let us, Nicias and Laches,
2507 Text |             them.~LACHES: That is true, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And are not our
2508 Text |                 That is true, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And are not our two friends,
2509 Text |               minds?~LACHES: Very true.~SOCRATES: Then must we not first
2510 Text |               do not think that we can, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Then, Laches,
2511 Text |            think that we can, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Then, Laches, we may presume
2512 Text |                 of virtue?~LACHES: Yes.~SOCRATES: And that which we know
2513 Text |                tell?~LACHES: Certainly.~SOCRATES: I would not have us begin,
2514 Text |           LACHES: Let us do as you say, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Then which of
2515 Text |                do as you say, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Then which of the parts
2516 Text |                 LACHES: Yes, certainly.~SOCRATES: Then, Laches, suppose that
2517 Text |                courage.~LACHES: Indeed, Socrates, I see no difficulty in
2518 Text |               be no mistake about that.~SOCRATES: Very good, Laches; and
2519 Text |               LACHES: What do you mean, Socrates?~SOCRATES: I will endeavour
2520 Text |             What do you mean, Socrates?~SOCRATES: I will endeavour to explain;
2521 Text |             LACHES: Certainly I should.~SOCRATES: And so should I; but what
2522 Text |          remaining?~LACHES: How flying?~SOCRATES: Why, as the Scythians are
2523 Text |                or flight.’~LACHES: Yes, Socrates, and there Homer is right:
2524 Text |                  remaining in his rank.~SOCRATES: And yet, Laches, you must
2525 Text |          Plataea.~LACHES: That is true.~SOCRATES: That was my meaning when
2526 Text |              Laches?~LACHES: Certainly, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And all these
2527 Text |            LACHES: Certainly, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And all these are courageous,
2528 Text |             imagine.~LACHES: Very true.~SOCRATES: Now I was asking about
2529 Text |                  LACHES: Not over well.~SOCRATES: I mean this: As I might
2530 Text |               them?~LACHES: Quite true.~SOCRATES: And suppose I were to be
2531 Text |                 is that common quality, Socrates, which, in all these uses
2532 Text |                 would be quite correct.~SOCRATES: And now, Laches, do you
2533 Text |                which pervades them all.~SOCRATES: But that is what we must
2534 Text |                  Most noble, certainly.~SOCRATES: And you would say that
2535 Text |              noble?~LACHES: Very noble.~SOCRATES: But what would you say
2536 Text |              and hurtful?~LACHES: True.~SOCRATES: And is anything noble which
2537 Text |                I ought not to say that, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Then you would
2538 Text |              not to say that, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Then you would not admit
2539 Text |                  LACHES: You are right.~SOCRATES: Then, according to you,
2540 Text |               is courage?~LACHES: True.~SOCRATES: But as to the epithet ‘
2541 Text |                  LACHES: Assuredly not.~SOCRATES: Or, for example, if a man
2542 Text |                 any more than the last.~SOCRATES: Again, take the case of
2543 Text |             should say that the latter, Socrates, was the braver.~SOCRATES:
2544 Text |               Socrates, was the braver.~SOCRATES: But, surely, this is a
2545 Text |            other?~LACHES: That is true.~SOCRATES: Then you would say that
2546 Text |                LACHES: So I should say.~SOCRATES: And he who endures, having
2547 Text |                knowledge?~LACHES: True.~SOCRATES: And he who descends into
2548 Text |                 knowledge?~LACHES: Why, Socrates, what else can a man say?~
2549 Text |                what else can a man say?~SOCRATES: Nothing, if that be what
2550 Text |                that is what I do think.~SOCRATES: And yet men who thus run
2551 Text |             them.~LACHES: That is true.~SOCRATES: But foolish boldness and
2552 Text |                 us.~LACHES: Quite true.~SOCRATES: Whereas courage was acknowledged
2553 Text |            noble quality.~LACHES: True.~SOCRATES: And now on the contrary
2554 Text |             courage.~LACHES: Very true.~SOCRATES: And are we right in saying
2555 Text |              saying so?~LACHES: Indeed, Socrates, I am sure that we are not
2556 Text |             sure that we are not right.~SOCRATES: Then according to your
2557 Text |              LACHES: That is most true.~SOCRATES: And is this condition of
2558 Text |              LACHES: Quite the reverse.~SOCRATES: Suppose, however, that
2559 Text |             what principle do you mean?~SOCRATES: The principle of endurance.
2560 Text |            LACHES: I am ready to go on, Socrates; and yet I am unused to
2561 Text |                her and tell her nature.~SOCRATES: But, my dear friend, should
2562 Text |           LACHES: Certainly, he should.~SOCRATES: And shall we invite Nicias
2563 Text |             LACHES: I should like that.~SOCRATES: Come then, Nicias, and
2564 Text |           NICIAS: I have been thinking, Socrates, that you and Laches are
2565 Text |               heard from your own lips.~SOCRATES: What is it, Nicias?~NICIAS:
2566 Text |                 in which he is unwise.’~SOCRATES: That is certainly true,
2567 Text |               is good, he is also wise.~SOCRATES: Do you hear him, Laches?~
2568 Text |               very well understand him.~SOCRATES: I think that I understand
2569 Text |              What can he possibly mean, Socrates?~SOCRATES: That is a question
2570 Text |                possibly mean, Socrates?~SOCRATES: That is a question which
2571 Text |                of himself.~LACHES: Yes.~SOCRATES: Tell him then, Nicias,
2572 Text |                  NICIAS: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: Nor the wisdom which plays
2573 Text |             plays the lyre?~NICIAS: No.~SOCRATES: But what is this knowledge
2574 Text |              question to him very well, Socrates; and I would like him to
2575 Text |                strangely he is talking, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Why do you say
2576 Text |                he is talking, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Why do you say so, Laches?~
2577 Text |              thing, and wisdom another.~SOCRATES: That is just what Nicias
2578 Text |             denies; but he is so silly.~SOCRATES: Suppose that we instruct
2579 Text |                not want to instruct me, Socrates; but having been proved
2580 Text |                 whit the more for that.~SOCRATES: What is Laches saying,
2581 Text |          something, but it is not true.~SOCRATES: How so?~NICIAS: Why, because
2582 Text |              him I call the courageous.~SOCRATES: Do you understand his meaning,
2583 Text |                what Nicias would be at, Socrates; for he represents the courageous
2584 Text |                 got himself. You and I, Socrates, might have practised a
2585 Text |                of friends such as this?~SOCRATES: I quite agree with you,
2586 Text |           instruct him.~LACHES: Do you, Socrates, if you like, ask him: I
2587 Text |               that I have asked enough.~SOCRATES: I do not see why I should
2588 Text |               of us.~LACHES: Very good.~SOCRATES: Then tell me, Nicias, or
2589 Text |                 and fear?~NICIAS: I do.~SOCRATES: And not every man has this
2590 Text |             were saying?~NICIAS: I was.~SOCRATES: Then this is certainly
2591 Text |        courageous.~NICIAS: I think not.~SOCRATES: Clearly not, Nicias; not
2592 Text |               courage.~LACHES: Capital, Socrates; by the gods, that is truly
2593 Text |                actions.~LACHES: Behold, Socrates, how admirably, as he thinks,
2594 Text |                I am a haughty Aexonian.~SOCRATES: Do not answer him, Laches;
2595 Text |                 this sort.~LACHES: Yes, Socrates; and the examination of
2596 Text |            chooses to preside over her.~SOCRATES: Yes, my sweet friend, but
2597 Text |              Then examine for yourself, Socrates.~SOCRATES: That is what
2598 Text |                 for yourself, Socrates.~SOCRATES: That is what I am going
2599 Text |                 you think that I ought.~SOCRATES: Yes, I do; but I must beg
2600 Text |              virtue.~NICIAS: Very true.~SOCRATES: And you yourself said that
2601 Text |              virtue.~NICIAS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Do you agree with me about
2602 Text |                same?~NICIAS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Well then, so far we are
2603 Text |              that, Laches?~LACHES: Yes, Socrates, entirely.~SOCRATES: That
2604 Text |                Yes, Socrates, entirely.~SOCRATES: That is my view, Nicias;
2605 Text |               with me?~NICIAS: I agree.~SOCRATES: And the knowledge of these
2606 Text |             courage?~NICIAS: Precisely.~SOCRATES: And now let me see whether
2607 Text |            point.~NICIAS: What is that?~SOCRATES: I will tell you. He and
2608 Text |                  LACHES: Quite correct.~SOCRATES: And do you, Nicias, also
2609 Text |               past?~NICIAS: Yes, indeed Socrates; that is my opinion.~SOCRATES:
2610 Text |           Socrates; that is my opinion.~SOCRATES: And courage, my friend,
2611 Text |               the hopeful?~NICIAS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And the fearful, and the
2612 Text |             future evils?~NICIAS: True.~SOCRATES: And the same science has
2613 Text |             time?~NICIAS: That is true.~SOCRATES: Then courage is not the
2614 Text |                  as I suppose, is true.~SOCRATES: Then the answer which you
2615 Text |             statement?~NICIAS: I agree, Socrates.~SOCRATES: But then, my
2616 Text |              NICIAS: I agree, Socrates.~SOCRATES: But then, my dear friend,
2617 Text |                or men.~NICIAS: I think, Socrates, that there is a great deal
2618 Text |               of truth in what you say.~SOCRATES: But then, Nicias, courage,
2619 Text |               NICIAS: It would seem so.~SOCRATES: But we were saying that
2620 Text |                was what we were saying.~SOCRATES: And that is in contradiction
2621 Text |                 appears to be the case.~SOCRATES: Then, Nicias, we have not
2622 Text |                 answers which I made to Socrates. I had very great hopes
2623 Text |               at first, they should ask Socrates and not let him off; if
2624 Text |               To that I quite agree, if Socrates is willing to take them
2625 Text |                others. What do you say, Socrates—will you comply? And are
2626 Text |              improvement of the youths?~SOCRATES: Indeed, Lysimachus, I should
2627 Text |       LYSIMACHUS: I like your proposal, Socrates; and as I am the oldest,
2628 Text |                end of the conversation.~SOCRATES: I will come to you to-morrow,


Lysis
     Part
2629 Intro|               recurs in the Laches; and Socrates appears again as the elder
2630 Intro|               is a conversation between Socrates and Lysis, who, like Charmides,
2631 Intro|               take part in a sacrifice. Socrates asks Lysis whether his father
2632 Intro|               knowledge. In this manner Socrates reads a lesson to Hippothales,
2633 Intro|                the return of Menexenus, Socrates, at the request of Lysis,
2634 Intro|                neither the two boys nor Socrates are satisfied with any of
2635 Intro|              three or with all of them. Socrates turns to the poets, who
2636 Intro|               to steal over the mind of Socrates: Must not friendship be
2637 Intro|                  and the three friends, Socrates, Lysis, and Menexenus, are
2638 Intro|               conclusion is arrived at. Socrates maintains his character
2639 Intro|                balancing in the mind of Socrates:—First, the sense that friendship
2640 Intro|                is too strictly limited; Socrates has allowed himself to be
2641 Intro|               the ‘accustomed irony’ of Socrates, who declares, as in the
2642 Intro|              caustic Ctesippus, of whom Socrates professes a humorous sort
2643 Intro|              reserved and simple Lysis. Socrates draws out the latter by
2644 Intro|                 dramatic propriety, and Socrates proposes at last to refer
2645 Intro|              the Lysis. We may ask with Socrates, 1) whether friendship is ‘
2646 Text |                PERSONS OF THE DIALOGUE: Socrates, who is the narrator, Menexenus,
2647 Text |             persons have one favourite, Socrates, and some another, he said.~
2648 Text |                  and hesitating to tell Socrates the name; when, if he were
2649 Text |             about nothing else. Indeed, Socrates, he has literally deafened
2650 Text |             himself, or to others.~Nay, Socrates, he said; you surely do
2651 Text |                not in honour of myself, Socrates.~You think not? I said.~
2652 Text |              take you into my counsels, Socrates, and I shall be glad of
2653 Text |                he is fond of listening, Socrates. And as this is the festival
2654 Text |                you desire?~Yes, indeed, Socrates; there are a great many
2655 Text |               spinning implements.~Nay, Socrates, he replied, laughing; not
2656 Text |               do nothing?~Why, he said, Socrates, the reason is that I am
2657 Text |               to us?~That is very true, Socrates, he replied.~Then now, my
2658 Text |                to be conceited.~Indeed, Socrates, I think not.~When I heard
2659 Text |          Menexenus should not hear: Do, Socrates, tell Menexenus what you
2660 Text |                I will be sure to do so, Socrates; but go on telling him something
2661 Text |                you see him?~Never mind, Socrates, you shall argue with him.~
2662 Text |               his enemy.~I quite agree, Socrates, in what you say.~But if
2663 Text |                  Do any remain?~Indeed, Socrates, I cannot find any.~But,
2664 Text |                that we have been wrong, Socrates, said Lysis. And he blushed


Menexenus
     Part
2665 Pre  |             overthrowing the paradox of Socrates, or merely following the
2666 Pre  |         description of the relations of Socrates and Alcibiades. Like the
2667 Pre  |          self-convicted by the words of Socrates. For the disparaging manner
2668 Pre  |         attributed to contemporaries of Socrates and Plato. (1) In the entire
2669 Pre  |                 oral discourses both of Socrates and Plato may have formed
2670 Intro|               grandiloquent orations on Socrates, who does not recover after
2671 Intro|               them for preparation. But Socrates points out that they had
2672 Intro|               much more difficult task. Socrates himself has turned rhetorician,
2673 Intro|              The ironical assumption of Socrates, that he must be a good
2674 Intro|                we say that the offer of Socrates to dance naked out of love
2675 Intro|             which Phaedrus uses towards Socrates. Nor is there any real vulgarity
2676 Intro|             vulgarity in the fear which Socrates expresses that he will get
2677 Intro|                from an imperious woman. Socrates is not to be taken seriously
2678 Intro|              the picture of the Silenus Socrates, are problems which no critical
2679 Intro|              imitated may be uncertain. Socrates, when he departs from his
2680 Intro|              violating the character of Socrates, Plato, who knows so well
2681 Intro|         Phaedrus is to be attributed to Socrates. The address of the dead
2682 Text |                PERSONS OF THE DIALOGUE: Socrates and Menexenus.~SOCRATES:
2683 Text |                 Socrates and Menexenus.~SOCRATES: Whence come you, Menexenus?
2684 Text |              the Agora?~MENEXENUS: Yes, Socrates; I have been at the Council.~
2685 Text |               have been at the Council.~SOCRATES: And what might you be doing
2686 Text |             care of us.~MENEXENUS: Yes, Socrates, I shall be ready to hold
2687 Text |                 to be a public funeral?~SOCRATES: Yes, I know. And whom did
2688 Text |                 or Dion will be chosen.~SOCRATES: O Menexenus! Death in battle
2689 Text |                fun of the rhetoricians, Socrates; this time, however, I am
2690 Text |          compelled almost to improvise.~SOCRATES: But why, my friend, should
2691 Text |            MENEXENUS: Do you think not, Socrates?~SOCRATES: Certainly ‘not.’~
2692 Text |                you think not, Socrates?~SOCRATES: Certainly ‘not.’~MENEXENUS:
2693 Text |             Council were to choose you?~SOCRATES: That I should be able to
2694 Text |          suppose that you mean Aspasia.~SOCRATES: Yes, I do; and besides
2695 Text |                say if you had to speak?~SOCRATES: Of my own wit, most likely
2696 Text |             remember what Aspasia said?~SOCRATES: I ought to be able, for
2697 Text |                 rehearse what she said?~SOCRATES: Because I am afraid that
2698 Text |                 speech.~MENEXENUS: Nay, Socrates, let us have the speech,
2699 Text |                that you will oblige me.~SOCRATES: But I am afraid that you
2700 Text |               MENEXENUS: Far otherwise, Socrates; let us by all means have
2701 Text |              all means have the speech.~SOCRATES: Truly I have such a disposition
2702 Text |             Milesian.~MENEXENUS: Truly, Socrates, I marvel that Aspasia,
2703 Text |                 she must be a rare one.~SOCRATES: Well, if you are incredulous,
2704 Text |                 have often met Aspasia, Socrates, and know what she is like.~
2705 Text |              and know what she is like.~SOCRATES: Well, and do you not admire
2706 Text |                 speech?~MENEXENUS: Yes, Socrates, I am very grateful to her
2707 Text |                to you who have told me.~SOCRATES: Very good. But you must
2708 Text |                 I will keep the secret.~SOCRATES: Then I will keep my promise.~


Meno
     Part
2709 Intro|          whether virtue can be taught.’ Socrates replies that he does not
2710 Intro|                 he was at Athens.’ Yes, Socrates had met him, but he has
2711 Intro|               may be easily described.’~Socrates reminds Meno that this is
2712 Intro|                 interrogation, in which Socrates explains to him the nature
2713 Intro|                of a ‘simile in multis,’ Socrates himself defines figure as ‘
2714 Intro|               and not a mere disputant, Socrates is willing to furnish him
2715 Intro|         raillery follows; and at length Socrates is induced to reply, ‘that
2716 Intro|                 Gorgias and Empedocles. Socrates is of opinion that the more
2717 Intro|                that the conversation of Socrates has the effect of a torpedo’
2718 Intro|              virtue; in the presence of Socrates, his thoughts desert him.
2719 Intro|                his thoughts desert him. Socrates replies that he is only
2720 Intro|           sophistical puzzle, which, as Socrates remarks, saves a great deal
2721 Intro|               latent under it, to which Socrates will endeavour to find a
2722 Intro|                 in the skilful hands of Socrates, is made to acknowledge
2723 Intro|                  Compare Phaedo.)~After Socrates has given this specimen
2724 Intro|              the Protagoras concluded.)~Socrates has no difficulty in showing
2725 Intro|              then, shall Meno go?’ asks Socrates. To any Athenian gentleman—
2726 Intro|                statesmen of past times. Socrates replies here, as elsewhere (
2727 Intro|               allusions to the trial of Socrates.~Socrates returns to the
2728 Intro|               to the trial of Socrates.~Socrates returns to the consideration
2729 Intro|           instructed Meno, nor Prodicus Socrates. This is the nature of right
2730 Intro|                times. But in the age of Socrates it was only by an effort
2731 Intro|              you do not know;’ to which Socrates replies by his theory of
2732 Intro|            speaking of the daemonium of Socrates. He recognizes the lower
2733 Intro|               words is transparent. And Socrates himself appears to be conscious
2734 Intro|        temperance, and the like. Nor is Socrates positive of anything but
2735 Intro|             equally willing to learn of Socrates and of the Sophists. He
2736 Intro|             sophisticated youth on whom Socrates tries his cross-examining
2737 Intro|            experiment. He is treated by Socrates in a half-playful manner
2738 Intro|                new opinions, whether of Socrates or the Sophists, as fatal
2739 Intro|                 if he be the accuser of Socrates, as is apparently indicated
2740 Intro|          showing that the accusation of Socrates was not to be attributed
2741 Intro|             taught.’ In the Euthydemus, Socrates himself offered an example
2742 Intro|             from the general notions of Socrates, who asked simply, ‘what
2743 Intro|             written before the death of Socrates; the Meno, which appears
2744 Intro|            character of the Dialogue is Socrates; but to the ‘general definitions’
2745 Intro|                 general definitions’ of Socrates is added the Platonic doctrine
2746 Intro|            still running in the mind of Socrates. Unlike the later Platonic
2747 Intro|               to the trial and death of Socrates.~...~ON THE IDEAS OF PLATO.~
2748 Intro|                Meno’s slaves, from whom Socrates elicits truths of arithmetic
2749 Intro|               Meno and the Phaedo, that Socrates expresses himself with diffidence.
2750 Intro|             Heracleiteans, or even from Socrates. In the Philebus, probably
2751 Intro|               an infinite substance. As Socrates said that virtue is knowledge,
2752 Text |          PERSONS OF THE DIALOGUE: Meno, Socrates, A Slave of Meno (Boy),
2753 Text |                  MENO: Can you tell me, Socrates, whether virtue is acquired
2754 Text |           nature, or in what other way?~SOCRATES: O Meno, there was a time
2755 Text |                 But are you in earnest, Socrates, in saying that you do not
2756 Text |              report of you to Thessaly?~SOCRATES: Not only that, my dear
2757 Text |          Gorgias when he was at Athens?~SOCRATES: Yes, I have.~MENO: And
2758 Text |                 not think that he knew?~SOCRATES: I have not a good memory,
2759 Text |                 alike.~MENO: Very true.~SOCRATES: Then as he is not here,
2760 Text |            There will be no difficulty, Socrates, in answering your question.
2761 Text |               same may be said of vice, Socrates (Compare Arist. Pol.).~SOCRATES:
2762 Text |         Socrates (Compare Arist. Pol.).~SOCRATES: How fortunate I am, Meno!
2763 Text |              from one another, as bees.~SOCRATES: And if I went on to say:
2764 Text |                 answer?~MENO: I should.~SOCRATES: And so of the virtues,
2765 Text |               question as I could wish.~SOCRATES: When you say, Meno, that
2766 Text |                  both in man and woman.~SOCRATES: And is not this true of
2767 Text |          difference?~MENO: I think not.~SOCRATES: And will not virtue, as
2768 Text |                  I cannot help feeling, Socrates, that this case is different
2769 Text |              different from the others.~SOCRATES: But why? Were you not saying
2770 Text |              house?~MENO: I did say so.~SOCRATES: And can either house or
2771 Text |           justice?~MENO: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: Then they who order a state
2772 Text |               justice?~MENO: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Then both men and women,
2773 Text |                and justice?~MENO: True.~SOCRATES: And can either a young
2774 Text |              unjust?~MENO: They cannot.~SOCRATES: They must be temperate
2775 Text |          temperate and just?~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then all men are good in
2776 Text |                  Such is the inference.~SOCRATES: And they surely would not
2777 Text |             same?~MENO: They would not.~SOCRATES: Then now that the sameness
2778 Text |                 definition of them all?~SOCRATES: That is what I am seeking.~
2779 Text |             power of governing mankind.~SOCRATES: And does this definition
2780 Text |               slave?~MENO: I think not, Socrates.~SOCRATES: No, indeed; there
2781 Text |                  I think not, Socrates.~SOCRATES: No, indeed; there would
2782 Text |               not unjustly’?~MENO: Yes, Socrates; I agree there; for justice
2783 Text |                  for justice is virtue.~SOCRATES: Would you say ‘virtue,’
2784 Text |                 MENO: What do you mean?~SOCRATES: I mean as I might say about
2785 Text |             virtues as well as justice.~SOCRATES: What are they? tell me
2786 Text |              and there are many others.~SOCRATES: Yes, Meno; and again we
2787 Text |            through them all.~MENO: Why, Socrates, even now I am not able
2788 Text |              virtue as of other things.~SOCRATES: No wonder; but I will try
2789 Text |               figure.’~MENO: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And for this reason—that
2790 Text |               other figures?~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: And if he proceeded to
2791 Text |               told him.~MENO: I should.~SOCRATES: And if he similarly asked
2792 Text |                as well.~MENO: I should.~SOCRATES: And if he had said, Tell
2793 Text |                as whiteness.~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: And suppose that he were
2794 Text |                 of speaking?~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: And in speaking thus, you
2795 Text |             round?~MENO: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: You only assert that the
2796 Text |                 round?~MENO: Very true.~SOCRATES: To what then do we give
2797 Text |                 that you should answer, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Shall I indulge
2798 Text |                should answer, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Shall I indulge you?~MENO:
2799 Text |                you?~MENO: By all means.~SOCRATES: And then you will tell
2800 Text |             about virtue?~MENO: I will.~SOCRATES: Then I must do my best,
2801 Text |                be won.~MENO: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Well, I will try and explain
2802 Text |        definition of virtue?~MENO: But, Socrates, it is such a simple answer.~
2803 Text |                is such a simple answer.~SOCRATES: Why simple?~MENO: Because,
2804 Text |                 always follows colour.~(SOCRATES: Granted.)~MENO: But if
2805 Text |               would you have given him?~SOCRATES: I should have told him
2806 Text |                understand your meaning.~SOCRATES: And you would speak of
2807 Text |                 in geometry.~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: Well then, you are now
2808 Text |                of solid.~MENO: And now, Socrates, what is colour?~SOCRATES:
2809 Text |               Socrates, what is colour?~SOCRATES: You are outrageous, Meno,
2810 Text |                 I ask, I will tell you, Socrates.~SOCRATES: A man who was
2811 Text |                will tell you, Socrates.~SOCRATES: A man who was blindfolded
2812 Text |              MENO: Why do you think so?~SOCRATES: Why, because you always
2813 Text |                answer.~MENO: Please do.~SOCRATES: Would you like me to answer
2814 Text |             should like nothing better.~SOCRATES: Do not he and you and Empedocles
2815 Text |             existence?~MENO: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And passages into which
2816 Text |         effluences pass?~MENO: Exactly.~SOCRATES: And some of the effluences
2817 Text |               or too large?~MENO: True.~SOCRATES: And there is such a thing
2818 Text |              thing as sight?~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: And now, as Pindar says, ‘
2819 Text |          palpable to sense.~MENO: That, Socrates, appears to me to be an
2820 Text |                 be an admirable answer.~SOCRATES: Why, yes, because it happens
2821 Text |            phenomena.~MENO: Quite true.~SOCRATES: The answer, Meno, was in
2822 Text |                about figure.~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: And yet, O son of Alexidemus,
2823 Text |                  MENO: But I will stay, Socrates, if you will give me many
2824 Text |              give me many such answers.~SOCRATES: Well then, for my own sake
2825 Text |               pattern.~MENO: Well then, Socrates, virtue, as I take it, is
2826 Text |               power of attaining them.’~SOCRATES: And does he who desires
2827 Text |              the good?~MENO: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Then are there some who
2828 Text |                good?~MENO: I think not.~SOCRATES: There are some who desire
2829 Text |                 desire evil?~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: Do you mean that they think
2830 Text |              them?~MENO: Both, I think.~SOCRATES: And do you really imagine,
2831 Text |  notwithstanding?~MENO: Certainly I do.~SOCRATES: And desire is of possession?~
2832 Text |               MENO: Yes, of possession.~SOCRATES: And does he think that
2833 Text |                 they will do them harm.~SOCRATES: And, in your opinion, do
2834 Text |             evils?~MENO: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: Is it not obvious that
2835 Text |                MENO: Yes, in that case.~SOCRATES: Well, and do those who,
2836 Text |                MENO: They must know it.~SOCRATES: And must they not suppose
2837 Text |                How can it be otherwise?~SOCRATES: But are not the miserable
2838 Text |           ill-fated?~MENO: Yes, indeed.~SOCRATES: And does any one desire
2839 Text |                 MENO: I should say not, Socrates.~SOCRATES: But if there
2840 Text |               should say not, Socrates.~SOCRATES: But if there is no one
2841 Text |                appears to be the truth, Socrates, and I admit that nobody
2842 Text |               that nobody desires evil.~SOCRATES: And yet, were you not saying
2843 Text |                MENO: Yes, I did say so.~SOCRATES: But if this be affirmed,
2844 Text |               that respect?~MENO: True.~SOCRATES: And if one man is not better
2845 Text |            attaining it?~MENO: Exactly.~SOCRATES: Then, according to your
2846 Text |               MENO: I entirely approve, Socrates, of the manner in which
2847 Text |               you now view this matter.~SOCRATES: Then let us see whether
2848 Text |             attaining goods?~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: And the goods which you
2849 Text |               should include all those.~SOCRATES: Then, according to Meno,
2850 Text |               virtue?~MENO: Not virtue, Socrates, but vice.~SOCRATES: Then
2851 Text |             virtue, Socrates, but vice.~SOCRATES: Then justice or temperance
2852 Text |                be virtue without these?~SOCRATES: And the non-acquisition
2853 Text |             equally virtue?~MENO: True.~SOCRATES: Then the acquisition of
2854 Text |              otherwise, in my judgment.~SOCRATES: And were we not saying
2855 Text |              part of virtue?~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: And so, Meno, this is the
2856 Text |              MENO: Why do you say that, Socrates?~SOCRATES: Why, because
2857 Text |                 you say that, Socrates?~SOCRATES: Why, because I asked you
2858 Text |              part of virtue.~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then it follows from your
2859 Text |             virtue.~MENO: What of that?~SOCRATES: What of that! Why, did
2860 Text |                 do not say that he can.~SOCRATES: Do you remember how, in
2861 Text |               or unadmitted?~MENO: Yes, Socrates; and we were quite right
2862 Text |                quite right in doing so.~SOCRATES: But then, my friend, do
2863 Text |                 I believe that you are.~SOCRATES: Then begin again, and answer
2864 Text |           definition of virtue?~MENO: O Socrates, I used to be told, before
2865 Text |              into prison as a magician.~SOCRATES: You are a rogue, Meno,
2866 Text |                 MENO: What do you mean, Socrates?~SOCRATES: I can tell why
2867 Text |             What do you mean, Socrates?~SOCRATES: I can tell why you made
2868 Text |             simile about me.~MENO: Why?~SOCRATES: In order that I might make
2869 Text |               And how will you enquire, Socrates, into that which you do
2870 Text |                 which you did not know?~SOCRATES: I know, Meno, what you
2871 Text |               Post. Anal.).~MENO: Well, Socrates, and is not the argument
2872 Text |                 not the argument sound?~SOCRATES: I think not.~MENO: Why
2873 Text |               think not.~MENO: Why not?~SOCRATES: I will tell you why: I
2874 Text |                MENO: What did they say?~SOCRATES: They spoke of a glorious
2875 Text |              was it? and who were they?~SOCRATES: Some of them were priests
2876 Text |            nature of virtue.~MENO: Yes, Socrates; but what do you mean by
2877 Text |               you teach me how this is?~SOCRATES: I told you, Meno, just
2878 Text |            contradiction.~MENO: Indeed, Socrates, I protest that I had no
2879 Text |                  I wish that you would.~SOCRATES: It will be no easy matter,
2880 Text |            Certainly. Come hither, boy.~SOCRATES: He is Greek, and speaks
2881 Text |               he was born in the house.~SOCRATES: Attend now to the questions
2882 Text |                remembers.~MENO: I will.~SOCRATES: Tell me, boy, do you know
2883 Text |                 is a square?~BOY: I do.~SOCRATES: And you know that a square
2884 Text |            lines equal?~BOY: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And these lines which I
2885 Text |               are also equal?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: A square may be of any
2886 Text |               any size?~BOY: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And if one side of the
2887 Text |              feet taken once?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: But since this side is
2888 Text |               two feet?~BOY: There are.~SOCRATES: Then the square is of twice
2889 Text |               twice two feet?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: And how many are twice
2890 Text |                 and tell me.~BOY: Four, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And might there
2891 Text |                me.~BOY: Four, Socrates.~SOCRATES: And might there not be
2892 Text |              the lines equal?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: And of how many feet will
2893 Text |                 be?~BOY: Of eight feet.~SOCRATES: And now try and tell me
2894 Text |             will that be?~BOY: Clearly, Socrates, it will be double.~SOCRATES:
2895 Text |            Socrates, it will be double.~SOCRATES: Do you observe, Meno, that
2896 Text |                 does he not?~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: And does he really know?~
2897 Text |              know?~MENO: Certainly not.~SOCRATES: He only guesses that because
2898 Text |             line is double.~MENO: True.~SOCRATES: Observe him while he recalls
2899 Text |             from double line?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: But does not this line
2900 Text |              line here?~BOY: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And four such lines will
2901 Text |        containing eight feet?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: Let us describe such a
2902 Text |                of eight feet?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: And are there not these
2903 Text |                of four feet?~BOY: True.~SOCRATES: And is not that four times
2904 Text |             times four?~BOY: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And four times is not double?~
2905 Text |                double?~BOY: No, indeed.~SOCRATES: But how much?~BOY: Four
2906 Text |                BOY: Four times as much.~SOCRATES: Therefore the double line,
2907 Text |               times as much.~BOY: True.~SOCRATES: Four times four are sixteen—
2908 Text |                 are they not?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: What line would give you
2909 Text |             feet;—do you see?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: And the space of four feet
2910 Text |               this half line?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: Good; and is not a space
2911 Text |              the other?~BOY: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Such a space, then, will
2912 Text |              one?~BOY: Yes; I think so.~SOCRATES: Very good; I like to hear
2913 Text |                 that of four?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then the line which forms
2914 Text |               four feet?~BOY: It ought.~SOCRATES: Try and see if you can
2915 Text |               will be.~BOY: Three feet.~SOCRATES: Then if we add a half to
2916 Text |              which you speak?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: But if there are three
2917 Text |             feet?~BOY: That is evident.~SOCRATES: And how much are three
2918 Text |            times three feet?~BOY: Nine.~SOCRATES: And how much is the double
2919 Text |             double of four?~BOY: Eight.~SOCRATES: Then the figure of eight
2920 Text |                 line of three?~BOY: No.~SOCRATES: But from what line?—tell
2921 Text |               me the line.~BOY: Indeed, Socrates, I do not know.~SOCRATES:
2922 Text |                Socrates, I do not know.~SOCRATES: Do you see, Meno, what
2923 Text |              that he knows.~MENO: True.~SOCRATES: Is he not better off in
2924 Text |               MENO: I think that he is.~SOCRATES: If we have made him doubt,
2925 Text |                harm?~MENO: I think not.~SOCRATES: We have certainly, as would
2926 Text |                double side.~MENO: True.~SOCRATES: But do you suppose that
2927 Text |                know?~MENO: I think not, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Then he was the
2928 Text |                  I think not, Socrates.~SOCRATES: Then he was the better
2929 Text |                touch?~MENO: I think so.~SOCRATES: Mark now the farther development.
2930 Text |                 I have drawn?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: And now I add another square
2931 Text |               the former one?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: And a third, which is equal
2932 Text |               either of them?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: Suppose that we fill up
2933 Text |                 corner?~BOY: Very good.~SOCRATES: Here, then, there are four
2934 Text |                 equal spaces?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: And how many times larger
2935 Text |                 other?~BOY: Four times.~SOCRATES: But it ought to have been
2936 Text |               will remember.~BOY: True.~SOCRATES: And does not this line,
2937 Text |                 these spaces?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: And are there not here
2938 Text |             this space?~BOY: There are.~SOCRATES: Look and see how much this
2939 Text |               BOY: I do not understand.~SOCRATES: Has not each interior line
2940 Text |              the four spaces?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: And how many spaces are
2941 Text |                this section?~BOY: Four.~SOCRATES: And how many in this?~BOY:
2942 Text |                 many in this?~BOY: Two.~SOCRATES: And four is how many times
2943 Text |             many times two?~BOY: Twice.~SOCRATES: And this space is of how
2944 Text |               feet?~BOY: Of eight feet.~SOCRATES: And from what line do you
2945 Text |                 figure?~BOY: From this.~SOCRATES: That is, from the line
2946 Text |                 of four feet?~BOY: Yes.~SOCRATES: And that is the line which
2947 Text |               diagonal?~BOY: Certainly, Socrates.~SOCRATES: What do you say
2948 Text |               BOY: Certainly, Socrates.~SOCRATES: What do you say of him,
2949 Text |                  they were all his own.~SOCRATES: And yet, as we were just
2950 Text |               did not know?~MENO: True.~SOCRATES: But still he had in him
2951 Text |              his—had he not?~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then he who does not know
2952 Text |                 not know?~MENO: He has.~SOCRATES: And at present these notions
2953 Text |                 last?~MENO: I dare say.~SOCRATES: Without any one teaching
2954 Text |             asked questions?~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: And this spontaneous recovery
2955 Text |               recollection?~MENO: True.~SOCRATES: And this knowledge which
2956 Text |            always possessed?~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: But if he always possessed
2957 Text |                 one ever did teach him.~SOCRATES: And yet he has the knowledge?~
2958 Text |              knowledge?~MENO: The fact, Socrates, is undeniable.~SOCRATES:
2959 Text |                Socrates, is undeniable.~SOCRATES: But if he did not acquire
2960 Text |                  MENO: Clearly he must.~SOCRATES: Which must have been the
2961 Text |               was not a man?~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: And if there have been
2962 Text |                 a man?~MENO: Obviously.~SOCRATES: And if the truth of all
2963 Text |               like what you are saying.~SOCRATES: And I, Meno, like what
2964 Text |               power.~MENO: There again, Socrates, your words seem to me excellent.~
2965 Text |             words seem to me excellent.~SOCRATES: Then, as we are agreed
2966 Text |             virtue?~MENO: By all means, Socrates. And yet I would much rather
2967 Text |               to men in some other way?~SOCRATES: Had I the command of you
2968 Text |               is taught?~MENO: I agree.~SOCRATES: Then if virtue is knowledge,
2969 Text |                taught?~MENO: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Then now we have made a
2970 Text |              not, not?~MENO: Certainly.~SOCRATES: The next question is, whether
2971 Text |              which comes next in order.~SOCRATES: Do we not say that virtue
2972 Text |                 aside.~MENO: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Now, if there be any sort
2973 Text |               is knowledge?~MENO: True.~SOCRATES: And virtue makes us good?~
2974 Text |               makes us good?~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: And if we are good, then
2975 Text |              are profitable?~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: Then virtue is profitable?~
2976 Text |             That is the only inference.~SOCRATES: Then now let us see what
2977 Text |                 profitable?~MENO: True.~SOCRATES: And yet these things may
2978 Text |                not think so?~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: And what is the guiding
2979 Text |          rightly used?~MENO: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Next, let us consider the
2980 Text |                 the like?~MENO: Surely.~SOCRATES: And such of these as are
2981 Text |                is profited?~MENO: True.~SOCRATES: And the same may be said
2982 Text |               hurtful?~MENO: Very true.~SOCRATES: And in general, all that
2983 Text |                That appears to be true.~SOCRATES: If then virtue is a quality
2984 Text |          prudence?~MENO: I quite agree.~SOCRATES: And the other goods, such
2985 Text |            harmed by folly?~MENO: True.~SOCRATES: And the wise soul guides
2986 Text |                soul wrongly.~MENO: Yes.~SOCRATES: And is not this universally
2987 Text |            profitable?~MENO: Certainly.~SOCRATES: And thus we arrive at the
2988 Text |               that what you are saying, Socrates, is very true.~SOCRATES:
2989 Text |                 Socrates, is very true.~SOCRATES: But if this is true, then
2990 Text |                good?~MENO: I think not.~SOCRATES: If they had been, there
2991 Text |                to the state?~MENO: Yes, Socrates, that would have been the
2992 Text |                have been the right way.~SOCRATES: But if the good are not
2993 Text |                be no other alternative, Socrates. On the supposition that
2994 Text |            doubt that virtue is taught.~SOCRATES: Yes, indeed; but what if
2995 Text |                 now that we were right.~SOCRATES: Yes, Meno; but a principle
2996 Text |               that knowledge is virtue?~SOCRATES: I will try and tell you
2997 Text |                disciples?~MENO: Surely.~SOCRATES: And conversely, may not
2998 Text |              are no teachers of virtue?~SOCRATES: I have certainly often
2999 Text |          physicians?~ANYTUS: Certainly.~SOCRATES: Or if we wanted him to
3000 Text |              the cobblers?~ANYTUS: Yes.~SOCRATES: And so forth?~ANYTUS: Yes.~